Reflections on Zelenskyy’s Jewishness
I was very surprised, when Zelenskyy was elected, to learn that he was Jewish. The first surprise was that there were any Jews left in Ukraine at all, given the history of Jews there. The second was that the Ukrainians would have elected a Jew.
There has been a significant Jewish presence in Ukraine for a thousand years. The population of the cities of Ukraine prior to World War II are estimated to have been about one-third Jewish – and that was after very significant massacres of Jews in Ukraine during the late teens and early 1920s (that era alone probably saw something between 30,000 and 50,000 Jews murdered there). During the Nazi occupation, it was the time of the Einsatzgruppen shootings – at the edge of open pits – and about a million more Jews died there. Many Jews in the US are of Ukrainian origin, mostly having come during the first twenty years of the 20th Century.
By WWII’s end, the number of Jews in Ukraine was about a seventh of what it had been shortly before the war. Zelenskyy was born in 1978 in the eastern part of Ukraine as a native Russian speaker. For those who consider him a “clown” because he came to fame as an actor and comedian (Robert Barnes at Viva Frei has ridiculed him in that manner in a podcast I watched; don’t have time to find it again right now but it’s there), please read more of his background:
His grandfather, Semyon (Simon) Ivanovych Zelenskyy, served in the Red Army (in the 57th Guards Motor Rifle Division) during World War II; Semyon’s father and three brothers were murdered in the Holocaust. Prior to starting elementary school, Zelenskyy lived for four years in the Mongolian city of Erdenet, where his father worked. Zelenskyy grew up speaking Russian. At the age of 16, he passed the Test of English as a Foreign Language and received an education grant to study in Israel, but his father did not allow him to go. He later earned a law degree from the Kryvyi Rih Institute of Economics, then a department of Kyiv National Economic University and now part of Kryvyi Rih National University, but did not go on to work in the legal field.
Among other things, Zelenskyy is the only Jewish head of state outside of Israel.
I submit that Zelenskyy’s family history and Jewishness have factored into his decision-making during this war. To begin with, he is descended from people who chose to stay under very difficult circumstances. His grandfather survived but his great-grandfather and great-uncles were murdered. This knowledge has probably been an important part of his family story for most of his life, and may have helped to give him both the will to stay and the strength to stay, as well as acceptance of the possible fatal consequences.
Those who wish to criticize Jews criticize them for many things, some of them contradictory. For example, they are criticized for not fleeing during World War II, for supposedly thinking everything would be okay when it clearly wasn’t – and this despite the fact that most who could flee did flee even though it was extraordinarily difficult because so many avenues were closed to them (I have documented some of this in this previous post). And yet at the same time they are often criticized for not staying and fighting, for “going meekly into the boxcars.” I’ve written about that as well (can’t find it right now, though), and I also have many thousands of words in several more drafts on the subject which I hope to get around to someday. Suffice to say that I disagree, and I think the perception is based on ignorance of the amount of resistance by Jews despite many factors that made it exceptionally difficult to execute.
My gut feeling is that Zelenskyy’s decision to stay and fight and be an example of courage is a way to show the world that the Ukranian people are not cowards but are willing to be heroes, and the same is true for him personally as a Jew and descendant of Holocaust survivors. He doesn’t emphasize that latter part, but I think it must be an integral part of his psyche.
I just read that the founder of the “nazi” militia in Ukraine was also a Jew who is now in Israel.
Also, note that Biden offered him a way out. Which likely would have ended in the fall of Ukraine. Perhaps the intent? Save the political elite and let Russia take a win?
Don:
See this on those neo-Nazis.
The Ukraine is reportedly a thoroughly corrupt country. Incorrupt politicians are rarely if ever elected to the Presidency in countries where corruption is rampant.
Zelensky’s $35 million dollar Florida coastal mansion is an indication that he’s bought and paid for… yet his insistance on staying is proof that bravery and corruption are not mutually contradictory qualities.
I suspect that the Jews who entered the Nazi’s cattle cars simply couldn’t imagine the fate that awaited them. On a fundamental level, the sane simply cannot comprehend the depths of inhumane hate.
Neo, that’s what I read.
Geoff, Russia is also very corrupt. Putin is an actual dictator.
I expect Ukraine to be corrupt. Maybe, if it is able to remain free of the Russian bear, it can become less corrupt over time. The USSR and Russia were always corrupt, that isn’t changing soon.
Geoffrey Britain:
You are quite wrong about whether many or most Jews knew what awaited them on those cattle cars.
That post I linked to, that has the letters from the Polish in-law, is a small part of the evidence that they knew. He was writing in the 1930s in a way that shows he already knew.
Why do you think 2/3 of the Jews of Germany left in the 1930s and the one that remained mostly remained because they had no recourse for various reasons?
Or read the Klemperer books I’ve written about at length. Among other things, he describes the extraordinary number of Jews who committed suicide when faced with having to get on those cattle cars. Why do you think they killed themselves?
Neo, also if you don’t know, USMC scout snipers used to use the SS runes as an informal emblem. It didn’t mean they were actual nazis, just being edgy.
And the death’s head symbol was common in the German military in many forms for a long time long before Hitler and the SS.
Trump supporters and right wing protestors have used symbols to troll the left on a number of occasions. Imperial German war flags and Kekistan flags, etc. The “ok” hand signal which 4chan convinced them was a secret racist signal.
A Mexican American driving an SDG&E truck in Poway was fired when he made the “ok” sign in front of BLM protestors, who then posted his picture on the internet. For all I know he was flicking a booger, and I doubt he’s a white supremist.
Geoffrey Britain:
Oh, and that Florida mansion? I noticed you didn’t include a link, but I’ve included the link that I found on it (one of only a couple of sources, none of them major and none of them I’ve ever heard of before). To wit:
No doubt an utterly impeccable source. Who are they?:
Quite a source.
Even if Vladimir Putin is offered a way out of the mess he created I don’t believe he’ll take it.
Why?
Such a deal is fundamentally unjust. The individuals responsible for the subjugation and slaughter of Ukrainian citizens are basically getting away scot-free.
The second point against it that it’s contrary to the nature of the beast we’re facing. Although the deal allows the enemy to take their loot with them, plunder (on the part of the leadership) wasn’t their primary goal, unrestrained power. The apparent governing principle of (to name an example) Putin’s behavior in public office is L’Etat cest Moi, literally; “The State, that’s Me”. The leader is held to be synonymous with the state, opposition to malfeasance on the part of the leader is treated as anti-government hatred, in effect as nothing less than treason. Putin’s consistent answer to criticism of his actions has been to defame his victim’s and his critics, to demand silence and obedience regardless of the consequences to his subjects.
The statist leader refuses to be subject to any legal restraints, nor does he pay heed to any superior authority. His victims, those persons who are to be subjected to his whims must be silenced and disarmed. This is nothing new, the military arm, be it a sword, a pike or a firearm, is the symbol and instrument of political authority. The citizens of a free nation, armed and ready to defend their lives and liberties, have a commanding voice, which a politician may ignore only at his peril. Augustus Caesar understood this when he depoliticized the citizen body of the Roman Republic by replacing the citizen militia based army of the republic with a mercenary force loyal to himself.
If presented with a “take the money and run” deal, a power addict would very likely refuse to accept. I wouldn’t be surprised if Vladimir Putin, following the example of such statist trash as Adolf Hitler and Salvador Allende, ultimately ends up taking the final exit while cowering in a final redoubt.
As much as each of us may prefer otherwise the coming struggle is certain to be a long, bloody, fight to the death.
I would prefer that you leave out that second “y” in the transliteration of Volod’s last name. A double “y” is counterintuitive for English speakers, not necessary and rather PC. The demonymic suffix “-sky” (“-ski” in Polish which uses the Roman alphabet) is pretty much the same in all the Slavic languages.
I’m surprised to learn that Zelensky grew up speaking Russian rather than Ukrainian, given that his first name is not Vladimir but the Ukrainian variant Volodymyr.
Neo, thank you for that link to the American Thinker piece about the Azov Battalion. I found that very interesting because I have seen a lot of pro-Putin commenters screaming about it as “!PROOF!!” that the Ukrainians are Nazis and totally deserve what the Russians are doing to them.
Don,
I’m well aware that corruption is endemic in Russia and that Putin is a brutal dictator. I’ve so ackowledged that here many times. Putin’s corruption doesn’t obviate Zelensky’s, so why bring up Russian corruption and Putin being a dictator expect as “well the other guy is even worse”…?
neo,
I was unaware of the high suicide rates, though if their fate was well known, it’s hardly a surprise to learn of it. I have had the misimpression that a minority of Jews fled Germany while they could. Thank you for that correction.
Given that Zelensky and his government are pro-western, do you imagine that main stream western media outlets would report upon any corruption of Zelensky’s?
Did Zelensky offer documented proof of the falsity of Kiva’s accusation? That would be the simplest way to refute them. If not, I can’t but wonder why.
Are you familiar with Zalensky’s authoritarian actions that easily match and arguably exceed Trudeau’s? Is it possible that Zalensky shares Putin’s corruption?
None of that excuses Putin’s actions but to what purpose does it serve to excuse evidence of Zelensky’s actions?
Zelensky is a very witty and gifted person. I watched several comedy scenes where he mocks the Moscow regime. It’s brilliant! And we all were convinced of his courage and devotion to his people. Putin is envious and does not perceive such bright people. When Putin worked in the KGB, his nickname was “moth”, a grey moth )))))))))))
U S Grant was disparaged as an alcoholic during the Civil War by his “betters” and critics. Lincoln’s response, “He fights.” And Grant didn’t cut, run, or loose his courage when things looked bleak, as at Shiloh on the first day IIRC. He also developed and implemented the strategy that defeated the south, not bad for someone supposedly incapacitated by drinking.
It appears that Zelensky is what Ukraine needs at the moment, a leader who hasn’t cut and run. But surely Zelensky’s flaws are of great consequence right now? (not).
“Czech Republic Reportedly Moves To Criminalize Speech in Favor of Putin or the Russian Invasion”
“This week, the Supreme State Attorney Igor Striz of the Czech Republic announced that the country is moving to criminalize speech supporting Russian President Vladimir Putin or the Russian invasion with sentences of up to three years.”
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/03/04/czech-republic-reportedly-moves-to-criminalize-in-favor-of-putin-or-the-russian-invasion/
Who decides of what speech supporting Putin is criminal?
Given om’s comments, I guess I’d be facing imprisonment.
Václav Havel is rolling over in his grave.
I believe it was David Horowitz who said that secular Jewishness is liberal politics and Holocaust studies. IOW, not a lot of observance necessary.
Still, if Zelensky has spent some of every waking day since he learned of his ancestors’ fate thinking about it, which is likely, it could well function as a titanium spinal fusion without any need for culture informed by Jewishness.
Speaking of which, have you read or heard of “Why The Jews?” by Prager and Telushkin?
Geoffrey Britain:
That’s not something new. A great many countries in Europe have long had laws against Holocaust denial, etc. (laws I do not support). Most of the countries of Europe lack a robust tradition of free speech. In fact, the US (till recently) has been much stronger than most other countries on free speech.
The statement the prosecutor made about Czech law was based on this already-existent law:
Geoffrey Britain:
It is a common misconception that most Jews didn’t leave or didn’t want to leave. It could not be further from the truth. I hope you read the link I gave about it in my earlier comment to you. Also see Klemperer’s diaries, which are well worth reading.
You write:
No, nor did I say I expected to find it there. What I did say was that the story about the mansion was in only a couple of sources, none of them major. I didn’t say they needed to be western. But there needs to be more than one or two obscure ones reporting on – and this is key – a statement from a pro-Russian enemy of Zelenskyy’s who offers no evidence at all.
Apparently you don’t need evidence of Zelenskyy’s wrongdoing but you require him to produce evidence that it’s false. Interesting.
You wrote:
First of all, neither you or I know what he said in response. The allegation itself is so obscure it is possible that he answered and neither of us saw it. But what’s even more important is the issue of proof – as I already said, you seem to accept the allegation with no proof (from an enemy). Did Kiva offer the deed to the house, or statements from the bank about the accounts? Apparently not, nor did she offer any other proof except her word. And yet you demand that Zelenskyy prove a negative – that he didn’t get this money or this house.
How, pray tell, would he even go about doing that?
As for Zelenskyy’s authoritarian actions, please describe them and provide links so I know exactly what you’re referring to.
The Ukrainian government doesn’t need to be great, by the way, in order to have the right to maintain its own autonomy from Russia.
“I’m well aware that corruption is endemic in Russia and that Putin is a brutal dictator. I’ve so ackowledged that here many times. Putin’s corruption doesn’t obviate Zelensky’s, so why bring up Russian corruption and Putin being a dictator expect as “well the other guy is even worse”…?”
Because anything related to Russia, Ukraine or Belarus is likely corrupt. Zelenskyy is certainly less so than Putin, at least for now. Putin is a dictator and gangster and murderer currently engaged in conquest.
Who is good and who bad is easy to see. But I’m not shopping for perfection that can’t be obtained.
Here you go neo, make of it what you will. The guy hangs out with corrupt Oligarchs.
“Ukraine: Zelenskiy bans three opposition TV stations”
https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-zelenskiy-bans-three-opposition-tv-stations/a-56438505
“Ukrainian President shuts down last remaining opposition broadcaster — RT EN”
https://detv.us/2022/02/12/ukrainian-president-shuts-down-last-remaining-opposition-broadcaster-rt-en/
Leading opposition politician “Medvedchuk charged with treason in May (2021) and placed under house arrest in Kyiv.”
https://news.yahoo.com/untold-story-ukraine-crisis-120041799.html
“Pandora Papers Reveal Offshore Holdings of Ukrainian President and his Inner Circle”
https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circle
Zelensky is a courageous man, no matter his origins. My respect for the fighting spirit and bravery of the Ukrainians is huge. Though I hate war and believe it’s one of humanities great follies, I admire anyone who will stand up for their home and land – no matter the odds. There have been many stories of heroism down through the ages. A new one is being written in the Ukraine.
Jen:
You really are carrying Vlad’s water now. Ukraine has been invaded by Vlad, Zelinsky shuts down TV stations supporting the invaders and Jen is troubled. War is Hell, remember Jen?
Oh well, are you being censored again, Jen?
You may have missed the clue about what Vlad is really worried about. Cruise over to the internet and do a search on NATO, THADD, or nukes in Kallinigrad. It never was those nappy cruise missiles and 13 minutes. It was anti-ballistic missile defense systems that make Vlad’s threats to nuke Europe less credible. THADD has been temporarily deployed in Romania, Spain, and Guam (US protectorate). 13 minutes? You got pawned Jen.
What’s Vlad going to do if THADD is deployed in the Baltics, Poland, or wherever Jen? After all, Vlad does get the final say on defensive systems, right?
Geoffrey Britain:
I’m not sure whether you’re aware that for many years – since around 2014, when the Russian puppet government in Ukraine was overthrown – there’s been both a propaganda war and an actual shooting war (a civil war with Russian participation) going on there.
Russia had taken over Crimea in 2014 (Obama administration in the US) and continued to influence those separatist Eastern provinces. There was a lot of back and forth between the east and the rest of the country and around 13,000 or so people were killed during those years since 2014. The goal of Russia has been the same goal it has now – control of Ukraine, either bit by bit or all at once.
Starting in March of 2021 (just after Biden took office – fancy that) or even perhaps earlier, Russian troops began massing near the Ukraine border. Lots of them, and it only increased.
So basically, you already had a nibbling away at territory, and then a war, and then clear evidence for an attack brewing. By April of 2021, 10 percent of Russia’s military was already camped at Ukraine’s doorstep:
And these stations that were shut down – were they like shutting down Rush Limbaugh or something like that? Not really [emphasis mine]:
Note that that’s the party that’s telling you that Zelenskyy has that multi-million dollar mansion in Miami and all those huge bank accounts.
Note also that Russia has been fomenting a low-level but quite lethal civil war in Ukraine since 2014, after it gained the Crimea as well as losing its former control of the Ukrainian government.
More from Zelenskyy:
Basically, they are Russian disinformation channels. Now, you are free to believe this is all a crock and it’s really the Russians and Putin who have the goods on Zelenskyy and are telling the truth. I think there is zero reason to believe the Russians here.
I’m not in favor of banning stations, but among other things, this low-level war that Ukraine’s been dealing with (and not so very low-level if at least 13,000 people have been killed) does lend more credence to what Zelenskyy did. At any rate, I don’t think this is an example of some deep urge to authoritarianism on his part – it was an attempt to stop things from becoming worse for his country. Of course, they did anyway.
The stations were still available on YouTube, by the way, for what that’s worth.
As far as your last link goes, what’s the point you think it makes? It is known that Zelenskyy made quite a bit of money in his former career (you can read the details of that career here). He was a TV star, TV producer, movie star, part-owner of a TV station, that sort of thing. I have little doubt he made a significant amount of money and seems to have made it the old-fashioned way: by earning it. I doubt it was anything like billions, however.
That last link of your seems to be saying that he has some offshore holdings. It’s my understanding that most rich people do, for tax purposes. Some charges of shady doings have been leveled at him by his enemies but those charges have not been corroborated. Some of his business partners are also aides in his government. Is that it? Is that supposed to be some awful evidence of corruption?
I know there are other charges – that he got Soros money, for example (that wasn’t in any of your links). See this about that.
The bottom line is this: you either trust these shadowy anti-Zelenskyy allegations from these Russian propaganda sources, or you don’t. Russian propaganda is a real thing, and of all the people in the world they hate and would like to destroy, Zelenskyy just might be number one on their list.
Also – if Zelenskyy is so corrupt and all that, why wouldn’t he flee Ukraine when the really hot war began? I believe he would have done so if that were the case.
}}} because he came to fame as an actor and comedian
Yeah, wasn’t there some American politician who did the same thing…?
What was his name… Rugan? Rogan? No, no, that’s it! Raygun….
I don’t know much of anything about Zelensky, but this is posdef an ad hominem attack, and diminishes Barnes in my eyes.
since around 2014, when the Russian puppet government in Ukraine was overthrown –
The Ukraine’s political spectrum was sorted between Russophile and Europhile parties. The Russophile parties were much stronger ten years ago than they are now, consequent to Putin’s harassment and bullying. I doubt it’s a fair judgment to refer to any President the Ukraine has had to date as a puppet. Also, the government was not overthrown in 2014. Victor Yanukovich skipped town, but the rest of the country’s elected officials remained in place.
OBloody:
Yes, it rather shocked me when I heard him say it, because Barnes is usually very sharp. But he also has a tendency to be cocky and wise-assy, and maybe that’s what was coming out with his remarks on Zelenskyy.
I also think that Barnes is extremely knowledgeable on law, especially American law, and also American history. It occurs to me that Ukraine is way outside his knowledge base (as it is for most of us) and he’s playing catch-up and sounding authoritative but isn’t.
Frei has also had at least one person on his podcast (Barnes wasn’t there) who seemed to come from the Russian propaganda side. A lot of trashing of Ukraine and Zelenskyy and leaving out important information while purporting to give the relevant history. A lot of people in the comments there were complaining about that in that video.
I think this was the video where Barnes was mocking Zelenskyy. It’s long, but only part of it is about Ukraine.
Here’s one comment of the type that criticizes the podcast (many other comments are of the “Great video, I learned so much!” variety):
Or this sort of comment:
On that last point, I’ve noticed that a lot of Putin apologists mention that NATO promised there would be no eastward expansion of NATO. But then in a more detailed piece on the subject, it said that Russia claimed that NATO had promised no eastward expansion. Apparently there’s no record of it – or at least I haven’t found one.
I guess it is the podcast where Barnes says Zelenskyy is just a clown, because I just saw this comment there: “Zelinsky has a law degree so not just a comedian. Clown maybe but you’re ignoring the fact that he does have a law degree.”
Here’s another comment (by the way, the video was made on Feb 27):
Another comment:
Art Deco:
I meant president, not government. And I suppose it depends how you define “puppet,” loosely or strictly. If you do a search for “is Yanukovich a Russian puppet?” you get a lot of articles calling him that. I can’t say I’m an expert on Yanukovich’s time in office; I was going on the many times I’ve heard him described that way. This sort of thing from 2014, for example:
neo
Wrt Barnes Et al: I get the idea that Vlad may be a jerk, but he’s part of Order and not all kinds of fussing.
You can do business with Vlad.
Yuck
“Among other things, Zelenskyy is the only Jewish head of state outside of Israel.”
Not true. For example: Egils Levits of Latvia.
oh neo–my long held questions about why the Jews didn’t leave, why they didn’t fight–and the far more important one, how people could look away–or even turn their neighbors in–have all been answered these past two years.
The majority of people are not the courageous beings I thought we were.
There are well done social science studies showing about 2/3rds of people w do what they are told, or what others are doing.
Complacent sheep, we are.
Clown?
Meaning what, exactly?
Denigration most likely, (But what if Barnes, from childhood, has always wanted to join the circus and be a clown himself? Except that his parents said, “No way”. You’re going to Law School … or Med School…”, in which case utmost, perhaps wistful, jealous(?) respect…? After all, he does have a pretty good sense of humor and is often entertaining in a wry kind of way. Hmm… DOUBTFUL.)
OK, “Clown”.
But might one wonder what Robert Barnes would do were he to find himself in a similar situation….OR ANY OF US?
People have lost the plot here—especially good, decent, intelligent people who seem to be stuck on…perfection? Whatabbouttery?
Who seem to have lost the forest for the trees…
So there are no angels in this conflict? (Or on this earth, for that matter.)
So therefore, screw ’em all is the “JUDICIOUS” response?)
Makes one wonder… who are the clowns, here? (in this perfervid “he-who-has-not-sinned…” moment.)
Yes, it might be complicated, or extremely complicated. Fine.
But one country is attacking another far smaller, far weaker; terrorizing its population, pounding it, pulverizing it, attempting to destroy its elected government and determined to replace it.
Essentially trying to swallow it.
Complicated? (Ah yes, I forgot: Ukraine is NOT perfect. Far from perfect, in fact…)
Alas, how easily one forgets….
File under (with apologies): “I am a Clown. Hath not a Clown eyes? Hath not a Clown hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a Crackerjack? If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that….”
B-52s fly training missions to Romania.
A message to Vlad, is Romania allowed to do that, Jen?
https://www.theepochtimes.com/us-b-52-bombers-fly-in-country-bordering-ukraine_4318493.html?utm_source=morningbriefnoe&utm_campaign=mb-2022-03-06&utm_medium=email&est=uZKY%2FEABpmh%2Bf7aA3V7PxU4fJBODztEDWv3TssM5uyK852CrYpV3J1%2FFIHKgqCQdaQ%3D%3D
Re: the dichotomy about Jewish resistance in WW2, I recommend this book.
https://www.amazon.com/Flags-Warsaw-Ghetto-Moshe-Arens-ebook/dp/B006QB0XMW/ref=sr_1_1?hvadid=77996657551060&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=flags+over+the+warsaw+ghetto&qid=1646579905&sr=8-1
Very sober analysis of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising by Moshe Arens, Israel Defense Minister and MIT grad. Spares nobody anywhere on the political spectrum.
Also very illuminating about all the huffing and puffing about a real actual American shooting civil war, and the difficulties surrounding it.
The idea they would simply unilaterally vote to become a part of Hungary again despite existing laws & borders, and that Hungary as a country would attempt to intervene, even militarily (to protect or liberate or whatever pretense you use) is absurd.
The gentleman would be wise to not have so many discontented Hungarians in the house if they are in fact dissatisfied. The thing is, the self-identified Russians in the Ukraine as of 2012 were a majority in the Crimea and in some border municipalities in the Donbass. The Russians have already swiped those areas, and then some.
@GB
Given that Zelensky and his government are pro-western, do you imagine that main stream western media outlets would report upon any corruption of Zelensky’s?
This seems to be assuming that main stream western media outlets are pro-western.
I see
John Mearsheimer’sGeoffrey Britain’s latest tack is to complain that Ukrainian politicians are not as pristine as Swiss politicians.“U S Grant was disparaged as an alcoholic during the Civil War by his “betters” and critics.” And Lincoln was reported to have said, “Tell me what he drinks and I’ll send a case to my other generals.”
Somehow, Ukraine managed to pay the Bidens a million a year in blatant, obvious bribes. Somehow, Biden was able to brag about how he got a Ukrainian prosecutor fired. Obviously, there is some serious corruption there. Perhaps it’s even as bad as in Chicago, Philly or New York, but I don’t know enough to say.
Russia is thoroughly and completely corrupt. Putin is a bad, bad dude and getting badder by the day.
Biden is obviously corrupt, dishonest and scarily incompetent.
It seems that everyone playing a prominent role in this mess is corrupt and dishonest. At least more corrupt and dishonest than the average bear we’d choose to picnic with if given our druthers.
The shame is that we have no news media sources that we can trust to tell us what we need to know.
Barry Meislin:
I agree that a lot of people – on the right, especially – have lost the plot. I have a sketch for a post about that, because I think it’s important to discuss why it might be happening.
One hint about someone like Barnes: he loves to be contrarian and I think he prides himself on being what he considers realistic, as well as skeptical. This time being contrarian means saying Ukraine isn’t so great. Of course, no one is saying that Ukraine is so great – it’s just a whole load better than Russia and than most other places at this point if faced with the same awful situation. I also think that Zelenskyy rising to the occasion the way he has is a big surprise. People aren’t used to people acting heroic in the old-fashioned sense, and their cynicism leads them to rejecting it as false.
That’s just part of what I have to say on the matter.
stan:
I answered you in the other thread, where you posed similar questions. I don’t think you’ve seen it yet, but here’s the link to my comment to you.
“…in the old-fashioned sense…”
Once heroism becomes “old-fashioned” (IOW, not “progressive”?) then the West is in dire straits.
In fact, we may be there right now (keeping in mind that according to the current nihilist zeitgeist of progressive hysteria—whose contribution to culture is their giant, all-encompassing petri dish of hate—Churchill was merely a “racist”…).
Nonetheless…the “Last Churchillian” chimes in with uncommonly inspiring, if SOBER, reverberations of determined heroes past:
“A Plan for Peace in Europe”—
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/18305/peace-plan-europe
Neo,
Noted. Thank you for your response.
Just passing this along from Peter Hitchens for whatever it is worth. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10581335/PETER-HITCHENS-saw-coming-Thats-wont-join-carnival-hypocrisy.html
I don’t know what to think. I don’t trust any media sources. Or our government.
stan:
Here’s another relevant response of mine.
I would add that there’s no reason to trust any media source implicitly. But they can still be evaluated as best we can.
Chap:
Thanks. I hadn’t realized there was another. I had read in some article about Zelenskyy that he was the only one.
Barry Meislin:
I think Churchill was considered by many to be a throwback to an earlier time even when he was PM. A sort of very useful dinosaur.
And this. Clarice makes some sense. https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/03/ukraine_what_do_i_know.html
Methinks yer being too kind. He was considered a troglodyte, a failure, a has-been, a buffoon—ridiculed, isolated and rejected. By all the best people.
Until they woke up one morning and realized either that they actually NEEDED a troglodyte…or…that Churchill was the ONLY MAN capable of saving Britain and, if possible, the wider world from Hitler. (And even then he was second-guessed and undermined by Halifax and his ring of elite fantasists…. Until finally, after having saved Britain and the world—yes, with American assistance, at long last, along with others—he was once again consigned to the political wilderness, if not entirely…)
Cf. Judges XI: 1-11…
Neil Oliver is always worth a listen. https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/03/05/neil-oliver-sorry-ukraine-but-were-not-going-to-stop-asking-questions/
Regarding the references to Churchill in the comments above, a book I would recommend is “Troublesome Young Men: The Rebels Who Brought Churchill to Power and Helped Save England” by Lynne Olson, 2008. Churchill’s was not the only voice speaking out against appeasement.
I think Churchill was considered by many to be a throwback to an earlier time even when he was PM. A sort of very useful dinosaur.
In that particular context. Churchill also favored retaining Britain’s overseas dependencies, an impossibility.
Interesting. The site will not accept a comment I just made… glitch?
Try again; OK it worked.
I am aware of the ongoing conflict between Russia and those in the Ukraine who favor the EU and NATO. Nor do I dispute the ongoing propaganda campaign each side had been conducting. I simply dispute that it’s a one sided affair with the Saints upon Zelensky’s side and Putin’s side… satanic agents.
“This is by no means an attack on freedom of speech, this is a well-founded decision to protect national security,” Zelenskiy said.”
If Putin had said that… would anyone here be as accepting of it? Especially as, other than his bare assertions, nothing is said of Zelensky offering evidence in support of his actions.
What is the difference between rejection of accusations of Zelensky’s corruption here, as lacking in definitive evidence… and the acceptance here, without documented evidence that Joe Biden is utterly corrupt?
“According to Zelenskiy, the sanctioned TV channels have long been actively used for disinformation campaigns in Ukraine aimed at undermining reforms and Ukraine’s course toward European and Euro-Atlantic integration.” [my emphasis]
Well there you have it; “Ukraine’s course toward European and Euro-Atlantic integration” along with NATO’s 2020 announcement that the Ukraine will be accepted into NATO confirms Russia’s worst fears of Western passive/aggressive encroachment upon Russia’s borders. That would give NATO a first strike capability that Russia could not match, effectively ending MAD.
Here’s how I see it; Putin aside, Russia itself views the Ukraine’s incorporation into NATO as totally unacceptable due to militarily valid National Security considerations.
That those national security considerations are separate from whatever Putin may believe. Demonstrated by both Gorbachez and Yeltsin sharing that view. As well as no competent military strategist having a strategic basis for disagreement.
All objections to that military assessment rest upon assertions of NATO’s good will. Russia’s acceptance of that would require a level of trust they simply are not willing to extend to the West.
That’s the geopoitical reality and regardless of how unfounded Russia’s view may be, regardless of however paranoid it may be… that’s base reality for the Russians. China has its own goals based on its base reality and pronouncing them illogical changes their views not in the least.
The above in no way disputes more malelovent motivations Putin may harbor. I say ‘may’ because Putin’s aggressive actions have been strictly limited to preventing the West’s dominance of territories adjacent to Russia’s borders. The sole exception is the Baltic States, when Russia lacked the ability to seriously oppose NATO’s incorporation of those states. As well as Putin having just been elected and probably yet to secure an unassailable position.
I find assertions that Putin now has his eyes upon NATO states as problematic in the extreme, as it would bring Russia into direct armed conflict with NATO, which would raise the possibility of nuclear war to a much higher probability.
Putin wants a greater Russia not a glass parking lot.
As for Zelensky, his government and his backers, I view the possibility that they are not at least as corrupt as Putin as highly unlikely. I base that on both the Ukraine’s known endemic corruption and the people who back Zelensky.
In very corrupt countries, competing factions is the norm, most if not all of which are equally corrupt. Zelensky’s faction is just the one who perceives association with the West to be most adventageous.
In addition, there are a number of pictures of just Zelensky and Klaus Schwab on stage together. That for me raises a red flag. Schwab’s WEF’s Davos Agenda is a Global Agenda and incorporation of the Ukraine into Western dominance is an absolute necessity. Every* major current Western political leadership is aligned with the Davos Agenda.
So Schwab and Zelensky are using each other for the advancement of their individual agenda. Protection by the West for Zelensky’s faction and Western dominance of the Ukraine for Schwab.
* Poland and Hungary may be exceptions.
IMO, any who imagine that after the Ukraine is integrated into the EU and incorporated into NATO that they will clean up the Ukraine’s corrution is engaged in naivete. Zensky’s faction will eliminate any competitors and control the Ukraine’s continued corruption, while the West will look the other way.
This is not just a simplistic case of bad, ‘crazy’ Putin seeing an opportunity to expand his empire. Nor is this just a case of Russia determined to resist Western advancement. It’s both.
Stan, I’ve long appreciated Peter Hitchen’s point of view on many things. I’ve saved writings and interviews of his for better than 15 years now. For some time he has been perspicacious regarding what was ahead in our western world. This seems to be another example.
Geoffrey Britain:
You write: “I simply dispute that it’s a one sided affair with the Saints upon Zelensky’s side and Putin’s side… satanic agents.”
When you have to resort to strawmen arguments, you’re arguing a weak position. You are well aware that no one here is saying that Zelenkyy’s side is all saints. In fact, it has been said quite clearly that there’s a lot of corruption in Ukraine and has been there for a long time.
But if you don’t see how much worse Russia is in terms of corruption – and that Putin actually is getting into “evil” territory with his territorial aggressiveness and violence towards people he professes to regard as “brothers” (the Ukrainians) – then nothing I say will change your mind.
I will repeat, however, that Russia has been fomenting a violent civil war in Ukraine since 2014, and that recently it became clear he was going to mount a large attack. It was in that context that Zeleneskyy’s government government banned Russian propaganda channels in their own country. That isn’t some Trudeau-like demonizing of peaceful protestors. That is the sort of thing most or perhaps even all nations do when they are under attack. This isn’t some imaginary attack, either, like what Putin says he fears from NATO (I don’t believe he actually fears it; I think what he fears is that if Ukraine joins NATO, he won’t be able to grab it as easily as he thought he could). This has been actual Russian aggression since 2014, escalating enormously recently.
By the way, the US banned the Bund during WWII.
Geoffrey (Jen) ignores Vlad’s not so subtle threat of nuclear war if NATO, Sweden, or Finland interfered with his rearrangement of Ukraine, and then has the audacity to claim Vlad doesn’t want a glass parking lot.
The amazing fantastic logic of Jen. Prevaricate boldly Jen?
The issue of which side is more corrupt is moot (although I think Russia is more corrupt; Putin is basically a mobster). Russia is invading Ukraine.
Putin isn’t afraid NATO is going to attack. He knows it won’t. He has nukes after all and he’s willing to threaten using them. He knows the west is woke and weak. Hence why he attacks Ukraine.
Putin’s objection to NATO is that it makes gobbling up countries more risky. NATO might actually rise to its obligations instead of rolling over.
@ Geoffrey > “Interesting. The site will not accept a comment I just made… glitch?”
Cicero & I each had the comment-disappears-into-the-ether problem last night.
The last time that happened to me (at least a year ago), the system wouldn’t let me post a link to Solzhenitsyn.
It finally relented after some oblique editing.
This time I don’t know the cause — but it’s interesting that there was a loooonng pause and then suddenly 3 of us get hit within a day.
Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, third time is enemy action.
Who is monitoring Neo’s comment threads with that kind of diligence?
Or is there something really subtle in the WordPress* algorithms?
*Is this a WordPress blog? I’ve forgotten.
Letter from Ukraine:
https://blazingcatfur.ca/2022/03/07/letters-from-ukraine/
But Zelensky’s just another corrupt bas**rd….
“Millions in forgivable COVID relief loans meant for small business diverted to unions: report”
https://justthenews.com/nation/states/center-square/eligibility-timing-question-ppp-loans-12-million-went-pennsylvania
+ Bonus (sort of):
“‘Show us mercy…we thought we were liberating Ukraine from the Nazis'”—
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10585541/Ukraine-war-Russian-POW-begs-mercy-invading-forces.html
Key graf:
“….Nationally, labor organizations received $36.7 million in PPP funds, and $1.2 million ended up in the hands of Pennsylvania unions….”
Pennsylvania clearly deserves this, um, gratuity. After all, the state made absolutely sure that there was no way Trump would win there….
https://dailycaller.com/2020/11/02/pennsylvania-attorney-general-trump-lose-election-votes-counted/
”By WWII’s end, the number of Jews in Ukraine was about a seventh of what it had been shortly before the war. Zelenskyy was born in 1978 in the eastern part of Ukraine as a native Russian speaker….”
Not surprised. If a Jew can be born a ‘son of God’ another Jew can be born ‘a native Russian speaker.’