The new NATO
When is an alliance not an alliance? When it’s NATO. I propose a new acronym: NATOH, for Not About To Offer Help. The help being asked right now is the bare minimum, and against an enemy that threatens most of the countries of NATO, too – if not as obviously in the verbal sense as it threatens the US, then even more in the geographic sense.
The nations of NATO other than the US have long been lacking in terms of financial support for the organization. In addition, in the shadow of America’s protective umbrella they mostly decided that they don’t need a robust defensive military capability of their own. They also decided to let in enough Muslims from foreign countries to make a difference in their internal politics. But I think even without the latter pressure, many of them would still be balking at helping – and by “helping” I mean something as simple as letting us use their airspace.
They really do think the crocodile will eat them last. And several of them really hate Donald Trump. Do they not even see Iran as dangerous? They probably consider their own Muslim populations and their own Jew-haters more immediately dangerous – and may also think that, if push ever came to shove with Iran, the US would help them anyway as it did big-time in the days before there even was a NATO.
Even Meloni of Italy, who heretofore had seemed to be Trump-friendly and more or less on the right, isn’t very cooperative:
Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni told lawmakers Italy “does not take part” in the U.S.-Israeli military strikes against Iran and “does not want to enter” the war. She described the conflict as one of the most serious international crises in recent decades and warned that the escalation reflected a broader breakdown in the international legal order.
And here I thought Iran didn’t follow the so-called “international legal order” – and never has.
More:
Meloni’s comments marked one of the clearest statements by a major European government distancing itself from the military campaign.
Speaking to the Italian Senate, Meloni said the U.S.-Israeli strikes were an intervention in which Italy “does not take part and does not intend to take part.” She emphasized that Italy is not currently at war and does not intend to enter the conflict.
At the same time, the Italian government acknowledged that the war represents a serious security concern for Europe. Meloni warned that Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon would pose a direct threat to European security and said the situation could destabilize the broader international system.
The prime minister also criticized the broader pattern of military interventions outside what she described as the framework of international law, calling the war part of a growing trend that risks undermining the existing global order.
Maybe something has been lost in translation, because that sounds almost lunatic to me. “International law” cannot help you with a nation that considers itself outside it and plans your destruction and to conquer you. “International law” will not protect Israel from being blown to smithereens if Iran gets nuclear weapons, either, although how much would Europe weep at that? I submit not very much at all.
Also:
Italy has also begun pulling back some of its military personnel stationed in the region. The Italian defense ministry confirmed that troops stationed at a base in Erbil in Iraq’s Kurdistan region were being withdrawn as the security situation deteriorated.
The base had hosted more than 300 Italian troops before the current escalation.
Et tu, Meloni? What gives with her? Roger L. Simon observes:
But now, in case you missed it—in close imitation of Spain’s execrable Pedro Sanchez—Ms. Meloni has done a volte-face, a complete turn-around from her Trumpianism, and, in a fiery speech, has vilified the Iran War and denied the US landing rights for its planes on Italian airfields, as several other European countries have.
She further roundly condemned Israel and began to sound weirdly like a latter-day Benito Mussolini, who also shifted his position on Jews, initiating anti-Jewish racial laws in 1938. Well, to be fair, not quite that bad.
Nevertheless, our former heroine has joined the rest of Western Europe in the same equivocation and passivity in the face of Iranian terror that has led President Trump, with support from his Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, to threaten, quite seriously, to leave NATO.
As explanation, he cites this article:
“Why is the Meloni government suddenly moving towards harsher positions against the United States and Israel regarding the Iran war? Could it be because of the referendum defeat on the separation of judicial careers?
“Although the vote was ostensibly a technical matter, it was heavily exploited by the far-left, the pro-Palestinians and the Islamists, turning it into a referendum against her government. The result was a turnout of 59% and a 54% voting against the reform.
“Meloni said that the vote was not a political one but exclusively technical, and she may be right about that. However, her recent moves suggest that Meloni is far more concerned than she lets on about the far-left, pro-Palestinian positions, to the point of undermining positions that, more than ever, need to be held firm. Added to this are the government’s rather ambiguous positions toward the Iranian regime, with which the Italian government appears unwilling to engage.”
Who knows? Much of Europe – and that seems to include Italy at the moment – apparently thinks they can placate their own left (as well as their own Muslim populations, whether large or small) and sit this one out while Daddy US and the hated Jews of Israel take care of it for them.
I saw the following today at Instapundit:
The casuistry here is remarkable. This is the simple reality: Like most Americans, most Europeans think this war is a bad idea.Their governments are being asked to take a huge risk by a man who has proved unreliable, volatile and intemperate over and over. Who would do that? https://t.co/pjNybhAEQq
— Gerard Baker (@gerardtbaker) April 4, 2026
Who likes war? Very few people. And the way this war has been presented by the media, I’m surprised it has any support at all. Are war decisions decided by referendum? Does complying with a treaty depend on liking the person in charge? It’s not as though Trump has suddenly attacked some innocent country with no provocation and that presents no threat.
Kurt Schlichter replies to Baker:
The Europeans are not dealing with “a man.” They are dealing with the United States of America.
The United States needed the most innocuous kind of cooperation from them. They denied the United States that cooperation.
The implied argument is that their obligations within our alliance depend on whether they like the guy we chose as our president. “Sure, we’re allies…if we approve of who you elected.”
Nope.
We are not going to forget, and we’re not going to forgive. I’m indifferent to their excuses or their rationalizations. The United States of America needed their help and not very much help. They turned us down. That changes everything. And they aren’t going to like how it changes everything.
Well, not really. It doesn’t change a thing if the left comes to power again in this country. That is almost undoubtedly what most of Western Europe and at least half of the US is hoping.
There are many defiant responses to Schlichter’s tweet, including the sort of anti-Trump garbage you often see from trolls, such as: “And we’re never going to forgive or forget that you elected a rapist paedophile fraudster as president not once but twice. The very definition of insanity.”
Other comments say that Trump should have consulted the Europeans before attacking Iran. This seems absurd to me – they would have told him not to do it, and he would have been risking the element of surprise. If the West was really united in fighting against the Iranian menace, it would be one thing. But it most definitely is not. Do the Western Europeans believe their own rationalizations? I don’t know, but I think perhaps they do, because the alternative is too terrifying to them and would require more of them than they are willing to give.
Sometimes I get very tired of the absurdities I see online.
The situation makes me think of this:
[NOTE: And by the way, the genius headline writers at the NY Times think NATO stands for “North American Treaty Organization.”
It isn’t clear that the stark meaningless-making can possibly be ignored, even ignored by leftist ignoramuses. Thing may just be dead, dying right before our eyes.
In 2015 I worried about Trump’s anti-NATO comments.
Not anymore.
Gerard Baker took American citizenship in 2023. He doesn’t appear to have completely changed his geographic orientation, however.
Western Europe is already controlled by Islam. The bearded paedophiles block vote for the leftist parties and outbreed the native Europeans up to 5:1. America has already lost these former allies. Without civil war and mass forcible deportations a new iron curtain will descend across the continent separating the Muslim states from Eastern Europe and Russia. The USA is on notice. If it doesn’t smash Islam at home then the same burka-clad face awaits.
The other members of NATO simply don’t regard Iran as a threat to them, rightly or wrongly, and the structure of the NATO alliance simply doesn’t obligate them.
It’s fine of course to be annoyed with them about it, but it’s a good reminder that nations have interests, not friendships, and adjust our expectations accordingly.
As for Giorgia Meloni, we were sold a narrative about her that just simply was never true. (A good rule of thumb is never to believe what we read in American media, legacy or not, about foreigners. Whether it’s NYT or Salem Media bloggers, you’re getting sold a narrative in the service of American politics.) Politics is local and Meloni answers to Italian voters and not to us–not as though we can get our own elected officials to answer to us very well–and “conservative” in Europe doesn’t map well to “conservative” here.
Well, it sure is nice to know who your real friends are when the chips are down.
July 20, 2028 -Western European leaders frantically call President Trump – “Russia is threatening to invade us next week.”
Trump: “That’s exciting. Have at it, boys – don’t let us down!”
To Niketas Chroniates,
Yup, “all politics are local,” aren’t they? “Nations have interests, not friendships” and if Europe is invaded Trump and America just don’t have any interest, I guess.
Two can play this game, amigo.
What did Henry Kissinger call all this: Realpolitik?
Freedom and democracy are always in danger from authoritarians. You can’t take it for granted that they will endure. History shows that they must be defended.
It’s hard and requires courage and sacrifice, The Western Europeans don’t want to do the work. Neither do the Dems in the USA. 🙁
Meloni is such a big disappointment.
And like Mamdani, she places international law above reason, and sovereignty??
…
Stewart, re “USA is on notice” regarding Islam.
Absolutely. Republican control of our government and cleaning out the swamp are simply essential!!
@John Galt III:if Europe is invaded Trump and America just don’t have any interest, I guess.
Maybe not. I think NATO’s original purpose is long gone and an honorable disentanglement is long past due, better for them and better for us, though as an American I care almost entirely about “better for us”.
When the Islamic ‘crocodile’ finally comes for them, the Western Europeans will have brought their fate upon themselves. If that fate eventuates, an Islamic Western Europe will still seek further territorial expansion. Such a scenario begs the question; will Eastern Europe have any practicable choice other than to seek incorporation within the Russian Federation?
None who failed to condemn each and every terrorist incident funded by Iran, every one of which a violation of Int’l law, should be taken seriously.
Why aren’t those people fighting in Ukraine against Putin’s aggression, and daily violations of such law.
Bah. Real law is law that is enforced, even if it is only enforced against non-nuclear powers. Real law might not be fair, and might even fail to always be just.
Enforcement is key—who does the punishment for violations? So far, mostly the USA. Unfair, and inconsistently.
Maybe the Board of Peace, led by America, might start out enforcing Gaza agreements on de-arming Hamas. But little will be done until Iran is more resolved.
Trump has already won about 90%, but stopping Iran nukes now was too low a bar. The 200% Trump success that includes regime change, would only be 100% for me. Long term Iranian cooperation requires real regime change in their goals.
@Geoffery Britain:will Eastern Europe have any practicable choice other than to seek incorporation within the Russian Federation?
Russia cannot save itself from Islam and has the same issues as Europe. See below from Putin, December 2021:
And his remarks from Eid two weeks ago:
Here’s some video of Putin holding a Quran while explaining that the Quran is holy, and in Russia it is illegal to desecrate a Quran and should be illegal everywhere.
To me, the line that leaped out of all the verbiage, was this: ” She described the conflict as one of the most serious international crises in recent decades and warned that the escalation reflected a broader breakdown in the international legal order.”
What a ludicrous statement from a European leader considering that they have stood by as Putin invaded a fellow European country, and systematically rained destruction on its civilian population centers. Among the absurdities, is her nerve in citing some fabled ‘international legal order’.
I recall that during the Yom Kippur war, the Spanish placed restrictions on the use of our base at Rota; and Italy did the same with respect to our base in Sigonella, Sicily. (When I sought confirmation, I found the AI generated blurb that says they denied their use for military purposes. But we were never involved militarily, of course. There was a massive airlift of logistics, and a number of replacement tactical aircraft as well, crossing the Mediterranean to Israel. I was embarked in John F. Kennedy, which was part of a large USN task force in the eastern Med to discourage the Russians from intervening on the side of their Egyptian friends. They actually had a numerically larger force in the area; and their own aerial resupply effort. That was the extent of our military involvement.
I have fantasized about closing our bases in Spain, Italy, England and buying–or taking–either the Canary Islands or the Azores to establish a gateway to the East. Unlikely. But I wonder if Trump has thought along those lines.
yes its quixotic, if Iran isn’t defeated, Italy will face a nuclear weapon, in the future, but they have imported many ansars mostly from North Africa, including Libya, that Berlusconi foolishly entered into that war, I don’t know Iran has similar notions to certain Sunni clergymen, like that fellow Al Arifi, the fmr chaplain of the Saudi naval academy, who sought to conquer the Vatican,
https://today.lorientlejour.com/article/1455817/hezbollah-logistics-support-network-dismantled-in-europe-according-to-le-figaro.html
the Khorammshahr 4, can reach Rome, at least hypothetically, at least Southern Iraly,NATO is proving to me much like the ‘proverbial fish on a bicycle, in many respects, they went on a limb for Greenland, a perfectly quixotic exercise,
A bit tangential, but as a former pilot, I love airplanes. Particularly jet bombers, and I have a soft spot for the B-1, the “BONE” (get it?). The perennial runner-up, not as legendary as the B-52, not as outre as the B-2 Spirit flying wing. But in this war and a couple of the recent actions, shown to be capable of delivering enormous quantities of whup-ass at enormous distances. Jimmy Carter tried to kill it and now it’s trying to clean up the mess he left us – how fitting.
So I frequently watch an hour or so of the BONEs flying in and out of our bases in the UK, video taken by some of the hundreds of Brits that hang on the fences and perch on stepladders, as traffic whizzes by on the wrong side of the bloody road!
Sure seems like a lot of Brits also like them, and other Yank planes too. Eurofighters are okay, but the BONE and the B-52s and the F-15s and the F-22s and the F-35s and the A-10s (OMG!) go out dripping with weapons and come back empty. Serious business here folks, and these Brits know it. Probably not a Starmer voter in miles, or kilometers.
Anyway, I have thankfully noted that there are Humvee-like trucks also running around with small gun turrets on top. Glad to see it – the better to deal with anyone who takes a dim view, and is perhaps prone to violence.
Ps. Okay, let’s actually mount the guns into the turrets, boys!
Pps. “B-ONE”, now you get it right?
@ Niketas Choniates: Some very thoughtful comments on this subject from your hand today. I’m annoyed by the Europeans right now (having hailed from that continent myself), but at the same time I have to agree that Meloni and others are responding mostly to domestic concerns. And many European commentators whose opinions I highly value, on matters from immigration to energy policy and housing policy, get their panties in a twist the second Trump is mentioned. It baffles me, but it’s true whether we like it or not. As you write, ““conservative” in Europe doesn’t map well to “conservative” here.”
Pull out of NATO
Shift alliances to Estonia, Poland, Hungary and Latvia.
EEDA – Eastern European Defense Alliance
Pull every military related thing out of Western Europe and shift to Eastern Europe.
Make contingency plans for seizing English and French nukes.
Mark V, if European commitments are based on personalities it is interesting to imagine their reaction to President Rubio, President Vance, or President DeSantis. At least two of the three mentioned may talk a bit more diplomatically; but I doubt that their policies will be any squishier.
I saw one comment that castigated Trump for not informing the Europeans in advance. Two thoughts. First, A person would have to discount Trump’s oft repeated public statements to be surprised at his actions. Secondly, it would have been more than foolish to give Europeans specifics of the operation in advance. Might as well publish the war plans in the Tehran Gazette. There is a third point. The Europeans were not asked, or expected, to cooperate militarily; but to deny, or restrict, use of the bases that have existed for decades for the sole purpose of supporting the security umbrella for them–and which are a boon to their local economies– was too much. Then there is the legal question of denying overflight in their air space. In the case of Spain and Italy, it is not the first time as I noted in the comment on Yom Kippur.
One last thought. During the Vietnam era when the U.S.N. carrier force was severely strapped, NATO refused to let us draw down from the two carriers committed to the Mediterranean. No sir; a commitment was a commitment.
In my not so sophisticated opinion, NATO has played us for suckers from the days when we kept 300,000 ground troops in Germany as a human trip wire.
One vignette. While I was in JFK we participated in the big NATO exercise off of Norway. One of our priority tasks was to maintain a data link with the Norwegian shore command. Very important. We simply could not make it work. When a Norwegian contingent visited the ship, I apologetically told them that we had done everything we knew, to no avail. They laughed, and said ‘it was a holiday period’. The U.S. committed major forces to a NATO exercise while they took a holiday. The fact that the exercise was tacked on to the end of a very long deployment for the ship, only added salt.
@Oldflyer:if European commitments are based on personalities
I am very skeptical that this is the case. I think those commitments are based on the interests of the powerful and connected, and that is why Trump is the problem. Personality is just the narrative, but Trump is not paying off the people who expect to be continued to be paid off. Trump thinks he was elected to solve problems, so that’s what he tries to do, but vested interests rely on problems remaining unsolved so they can be paid to manage them.
@Geoffery Britain:will Eastern Europe have any practicable choice other than to seek incorporation within the Russian Federation?
Poland has a vigorous economy and an ample defense budget. No Russian Federation for the Poles.
Geoffrey Britain:
I doubt that Eastern Europeans have forgotten the “warm glow of collectivism” or the Russian approach currently being applied to Ukraine.
They aren’t the French, Spanish, or British.
”And several of them really hate Donald Trump.”
Well, yes. It was just a few months ago that Trump was threatening war against them. Why anyone would expect those threatened with war to turn around and spill blood and treasure in a military endeavor for Trump that they not only didn’t agree to but were not even consulted on escapes me. This reaction should not surprise anyone, least of all Trump.
”It’s not as though Trump has suddenly attacked some innocent country with no provocation and that presents no threat.”
That’s exactly what Trump was threatening to do just a few short months ago. Did everyone forget? Europe didn’t. And that’s why Trump is in the predicament that he’s in right now.
Ah, yes. Because America will be so much safer when Russia is in control of Europe.
”Why aren’t those people fighting in Ukraine against Putin’s aggression, and daily violations of such law.”
Europe has done far, far more for Ukraine than America has.
Maybe the US should leave NATO, and form a new alliance with the former ComBloc countries in eastern Europe that take the military aspect of security seriously. Countries like Poland, the Baltic states, Romania, Georgia, etc.
With Poland as the largest European state in the group, we could call it the Warsaw Pact.
@mkent:Trump was threatening war against them.
That’s what legacy media paraphrased him as saying, I cannot find a direct quote of him threatening war. The only actual threats I can find in his own words were for high tariffs. They have lied so often about things that Trump is supposed to have said, that unless I see it in his own words I no longer accept any second-hand characterizations.
Europe has done far, far more for Ukraine than America has.
They bloody well should have. They should be doing 100% of it; they’re on the spot and if they feel threatened they should take care of it. They just don’t wanna.
This isn’t 1950. Europe has three times Russia’s population, three times its GDP, its own nuclear arsenals, and spends three times more on its military than Russia.
Russia has an aging, shrinking population, a smaller GDP than India and a smaller military than North Korea.
Europe has chosen complacency and Islamization and we can’t be expected to protect them indefinitely in spite of themselves.
NATO has been a skinsuit for a long time, a means for their governments to spend tax money with connected industries.
mkent:
I like cites too.
As opposed to motivated paraphrases.
The cite you provide isn’t an attack by Trump, but a withdrawal of support after the European withdrawal of support.
”That’s what legacy media paraphrased him as saying, I cannot find a direct quote of him threatening war.”
The Danes sent 1,000 men to Greenland armed with live ammunition and given standing orders (in case comms were cut) to shoot to kill any American troops who landed on the island without authorization. They had armed F-35s patrolling the skies and a guided-missile frigate armed with anti-air and anti-ship missiles patrolling the approach to Greenland with orders to shoot down / sink any American aircraft / naval vessel that entered Greenlandic airspace / waters without authorization. France had stood up a rapid reaction force to backup the Danes.
They were prepared for war. To defend themselves from American aggression. Think about how f’ed up that is.
Until that time Denmark was America’s most loyal European ally. It should come as no surprise that they and the rest of Europe are not now committing troops on America’s behalf.
The Duke of the shire summoned the Rabbi and threatened to kill the Jews unless the Rabbi could teach a donkey to talk.
The Rabbi and his verger went out to the pasture. The Rabbi picked up a stick and struck the donkey on the nose.
“Master, why did you strike him?” asked the verger.
“That’s to get his attention,” answered the Rabbi.
————————————————–
The Trump administration has been trying to get European leader’s attention for quite some time.
Despite mkent’s posts – nobody’s land was invaded. The idea that there was any real threat to European territory from the US is ludicrous…. in many cases, it is US army bases and personnel that defend the European mainland.
Trump raised Greenland as one attention-getting point in a larger lack of European attention/contribution to regional security.
Either through arrogance or treason, the European leadership has sneered at Trump’s warnings and clear messages from this White House about necessary changes in NATO.
1. By sitting on their hands European leadership has revealed just how compromised they are as an ally.
2. They have also revealed how depleted and untrained they are as a military player.
Rather late to the post, as usual, and I am not sure that my comment will be read by anyone, but I must comment regardless. First, I once again congratulate Our Most Gracious and Perspicacious Hostess for her insight and extend my gratitude for providing it. Second, I extend the same encomia to all the commenters who have preceeded me today. Well, except for mkent. It is for these reasons that I continue to inhabit this space. A community of thinking people is a welcome respite from the usual run of things that pass for “commentary” on the interwebs, and certainly even moreso for what passes itself off as “the media.” And to add my two cents, I can only say that America has become The Little Red Hen of the international community, doing all the work by herself, being ignored and vilified by all the other creatures who surround her. I sincerely hope that at the end of the matter, America can echo the sentiments of Madame Hen by telling all the other animals to bugger off and go fend for themselves. Europe has been the source of much of the world’s problems throughout the Twentieth, and now the Twenty-first Century, giving the rest of us World Wars I and II, Marxism and more recently, the nihilism of Gramsci, et al. Thanks for The Renaissance, but not so much for The Enlightenment and the French Revolution, back in Ye Olden Tymes. There were reasons our American forebears left that benighted continent, and those reasons have never been expiated. Thank The God of Providence that there is a wide and deep ocean between us and them.
@mkent: I notice you didn’t provide a quote from Trump, instead you provided an account of other peoples’ dramatic overreactions and blamed Trump for them. That speaks volumes right there.
Related:
https://tinyurl.com/2ejtba9c
H/T Instapundit.
Regrettably, I think that the above observation needs to be corrected by replacing “The USA…” with “The Trump-led USA…”
Regrettably, because a Democratic Party-led USA means effete defeatism.
For that matter, it means the destruction of the USA, which is essentially the Democratic Party platform and ideology.
– – – – – –
WRT Italy, it showed the same perverse attitude towards Israel following Oct. 7.
Old news…but still very relevant…unfortunately…
IOW, WELCOME to rabbit-hole “reality”…
https://instapundit.com/787643/
Key concept:
I always took it for granted, even back in the days of the Cold War, that in the crunch NATO members would act in their own perceived self-interest, because that’s what nation-states do. Including the USA.
Alliances are temporary things, they exist and function as long as the self-interest of the member-states are coordinate. The perceived self-interest of many western Eurostates has moved out of line, because of changing demographics, and because they don’t want to reveal/are just realizing their own weakness in military and global terms.
NATO was created to do 3 things, as expressed by one NATO Secretary-General at one point:
1. Keep the Russians out.
2. Keep the Germans down.
3. Keep the Americans in.
Those goals are no longer necessarily relevant, or not entirely so.
I’m not angry at Italy or Spain for pursuing their own interests. I take that for granted. I am frustrated and annoyed that they have, over the last several decades, put themselves in a demographic situation where this situation has arisen, but America is not entirely innocent in that either.
Should we pull o ut of NATO entirely? Maybe. I’m not 100% opposed to the idea. Certainly, the world is realigning, with new alliances and new oppositions taking shape.
I’ve gone through 3 phases in my regard for High Noon. Teenage me enjoyed it for the action and the tension and so. Early-adult me appreciated and recognized the commentary on ‘who is there when you need them’, including with regard to his fiancee.
Older adult me tends to agree with his fiancee, they should have high-tailed it out of town, lured the criminal into a trap later when there was more backup available, and avoided the confrontation entirely. Basic police work, you just don’t do that sort of mano-e-mano confrontation if you can avoid it.
Which of course would have ruined the movie. But an adult perspective messes up a lot of stories and movies.
While the Britsish, Spanish, French, and Italians can’t be bothered or are too scared of their Muslim street, the Iranians help the US in the rescue of the USAF WSO:
https://twitter.com/gghamari?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E2040826481710866811%7Ctwgr%5E2e9c487dcb45185747a4286b12a1e1f0388774f6%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Finstapundit.com%2F787681%2F
The Ukrainians have done more than all of NATO.
Who indeed are our allies?
Well, one could always change NATO’s name.
(IOW, those NYT nitwits had the right idea but the wrong, um, result (!)…)
How ‘bout No Arses Treaty Org…?
Mkent, do you seriously think the Danes, with 1000 troops armed with live ammo (they sent a couple dozen, actually) would have actually shot and killed Americans who landed without authorization? And backed up by the might French??
Do you think the Danes are suicidal, or are you just the idiot you seem to be?
what use has NATO proved in this instance, the British had to be dragged in, even after the attack on Cyprus, the joke about the EU is the German won what they had fought two wars, to achieve political and economic dominance of the continent, that s certainly one view,
they really think the danegeld will save them, they are woefully mistaken,
mkent:
I don’t think so.
We wouldn’t do it with armed forces.
No matter what you imagine, President Trump isn’t Vladdy or Xi.
Has mkent gone wobbly? Or another victim on TDS?
Don’t fret mkent, the Canadian PM seems to worry about the US more than Americans think about Canada; he’s ready to defend the Danes too.
But not too concerned with his government encouraging fellow Canadians to kill themselves.
For the greater good, after a land acknowledgement.
@ Oldflyer, Niketas Choniates:
I didn’t mean to imply that Trump’s “personality” is what irks the Europeans. It most certainly does, but things weren’t that different under GWB. Moreover, I’m not necessarily defending their obstinacy (quite the contrary), but we can’t be oblivious to the fact that they respond to domestic concerns and electoral pressures. It should also not be forgotten that the Europeans have a lot more to lose than we do when the Strait of Hormuz is being blockaded.
@Mark V:I’m not necessarily defending their obstinacy (quite the contrary), but we can’t be oblivious to the fact that they respond to domestic concerns and electoral pressures. It should also not be forgotten that the Europeans have a lot more to lose than we do when the Strait of Hormuz is being blockaded.
I agree with all of these things, except the last. Oil is a global market, after all. Even if little of the oil we use comes through there, we’re going to feel the effects. Our supply may not be interrupted since it almost all comes from the Western Hemisphere, but that doesn’t mean our prices won’t go up.
To me the defining characteristic of the Age of Trump is that so many masks are coming off, both at home and abroad. My views about the continuing usefulness of NATO haven’t really changed in ten years, but the receptiveness of other conservatives to those views has increased quite a bit recently, and it’s nothing to do with anything I’ve said, and everything to do with how so many of our partners in NATO are behaving.
The New NATO
Is bold, sassy,
Doesn’t care what Daddy says.
_____________________________
And she’ll have fun, fun, fun,
Until her Daddy takes the T-Bird away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDHErN3dOkc
_____________________________
It’s funny how Europeans love to talk down to America when they can’t pay their bills or defend themselves.
Dave L. on April 5, 2026 at 1:00 am:
“With Poland as the largest European state in the group, we could call it the Warsaw Pact.”
I love that kind of word play.
Steve (Retired/recovering lawyer) on April 5, 2026 at 7:15 am:
“Thanks for The Renaissance, but not so much for The Enlightenment and the French Revolution, back in Ye Olden Tymes.”
You probably know this already, but the Enlightenment had French/European, Scottish/English, and American segments to what followed. The American revolution has been described as achieving a political change without needing any corresponding social change to obtain it.
Some of this is discussed by Gertrude Himmelfarb in her book The Roads to Modernity: The British, French, and American Enlightenments (Vintage) Paperback – August 9, 2005.
— mkent
Please.
Nobody but nobody seriously believed America was about to invade Greenland, though there was a cosplayed pretense of ‘preparation’, and some people pretended to believe it. (Granted a few people probably really imagined it that there was about to be war between America and Denmark, but nobody in serious positions of power did.)
For what it’s worth, I agree that that whole episode was farcical. I understand what Trump was aiming at, but it was counterproductive. He has a tendency to apply the same hyperbolic speech to foreign policy that he does domestically, and it doesn’t play as well there (such as with Russia/Ukraine).
But war with Denmark? Spare me.
The Europeans are not refusing to help because of Greenland. They’re not refusing simply because they despise Donald Trump. They are refusing because it looks to them like what is in their own interest to do (or rather not do).
Also, we should wait a little while. It’s entirely possible that some of the Europeans are actually doing more than they’re saying, while posturing for the cameras. It has happened before.
@ Niketas Choniates: Yes, completely agree on both your points, particularly about NATO’s obsolescence. That said, things look a little more dire from the perspective of Europe, and also China and Japan among others, when we have reserves outside of the Middle East to fall back on should things go truly haywire, including Venezuela’s which we more or less control at the moment. But there’s no question this will hurt us too.
I’m of the position that this war is unfortunately necessary and long overdue and that we need to bite the bullet. However, for the sake of the economy and the midterms it had better be over soon.
Given Italy’s military records in World War I and World War II it is not a great loss.