The war on Christmas won’t be earning popularity points for the pro-Hamas crowd
To whom is this sort of “protest” supposed to appeal? I’m referring to disruptions of Christmas events by pro-Hamas groups (see the link for details; there are plenty).
I don’t think the demonstrations frighten anyone for more than a moment, and they probably make enemies of some people who might ordinarily be more sympathetic. I suppose the disruptions appeal to those who are already onboard with support for the genocidal jihadis, but is there anyone else who might be moved towards support? I really can’t think of any group.
Or maybe the point is merely “performative.” That is, perhaps the people doing this get off on it, and that’s the most important thing of all. It makes them feel powerful and active and as though they’re changing the world. As best I can recall from my formative years in the 1960s, that was always a big draw for a lot of activists.
After a certain point I do not think it is really about “popularity” per se.
One of Muhammad’s most definitive statements translates to something like “I have been made victorious through terror.”
And Caligula supposedly loved to say “Let them hate, so long as they fear.”
(Machiavelli has a more nuanced and in my view accurate and productive view where he favored being both feared and loved, but with an erring towards fear, so long as one is not HATED since a certain threshold of hate will override fear.)
I think this stuff is a brutal, grandiose demonstration of power meant to cow soft targets and the public into submission. Actual popularity is a side issue at least for this kind of operations. And worse is that it tends to have success, as the long and sordid history of “Arabism” in French and British policies in particular show and as we have seen from AntifA and co rampaging around.
as I recall from Dore Gold this was not unlike the sentiment of the ulema, the greater Moslem clergy around 1973,
of course it would tactless to point out that Saudis have hammered Yemen, with greater ferocity then Israel, with less motive, but that’s why the foreign service turned me down, look at who they hire,
In addition to the performative aspect, they’re trying to lay claim to public space. They’ve done this successfully in Britain because that country’s awful administrative class allowed it.
well also the Church of England is as hollow as a straw factory,
the French (will they never live this down) have acted with great foresight,
As I’ve said before on this blog: What I learned during the 60s and after was that guys “did” demonstrations in order to meet girls, get laid, and strut. The strutting was an important part of it. The chicks dug it.
“Performative” well, that’s a fancy name for ‘throwing a noisy temper tantrum in public and feeling good about yourself for doing so’, I suppose. I do agree that antics like this are likely putting off people who otherwise might feel a modicum of sympathy for the Poor Pitiful Palestinians.
in some respects, but the ones that terrorized commuters on Grand Central Station, (a month ago?) the ones who assault Thanksgiving and other celebrations, the lesson is clear, we are in charge we spit on your faiths that of the Saturday people, as well as the Sunday people, and no one will defend you,
One could say they ARE on a roll…though there are still a few speed bumps to work out….
‘Astroturfed “Doctors Against Genocide” Cancels Planned Disruption of U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum After Outcry;
‘ In a new low for the anti-Israel pro-Hamas antisemitic protest movement, an astroturfed recently-formed group called “Doctors Against Genocide” organized an infiltration and disruption of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in D.C. scheduled for December 28. After an outcry, the group has cancelled the event, claiming it was misunderstood…’—
https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/12/astroturfed-doctors-against-genocide-cancels-planned-disruption-of-u-s-holocaust-museum-after-outcry/
(To be sure, they are understood exceeding well….)
I agree with Irish Otter that demonstrations mostly have more mundane motives. One is to meet girls. Lots of these demonstrators are female. ANTIFA has lots of transgenders. Maybe that is an attraction. Also, I think many of these demonstrators are being paid. There are a number of inherited wealth types involved. One of the Walton heiresses funded a demonstration in Kentucky.
Turtler:
I agree they don’t do it for popularity. But as I said in the beginning of my second paragraph, I also don’t think these particular actions inspire much terror or even fear. The actual terrorist activities do. But I think these demonstrations are far more likely to inspire anger and extreme annoyance than fear.
IrishOtter49: That matches my memories of the ’60s. OTOH, I’m not sure how attractive “strutting men” would be to the current fems who are demonstrating.
Note: I stay far away from demonstrations so have no first-hand info one way or the other. I just don’t trust crowds/mobs.
Like you said Neo ” They’re not making any friends”.
I suspect a large percentage of the participants were attracted to the movement by such actions in the past and elsewhere, so expect the tactic to work with others as well. There will always be some, and as long as their numbers grow the participants will consider it a success.
And getting away with it, as almost all of the violent here will, is it’s own intoxicant.
neo:
these demonstrations are far more likely to inspire anger and extreme annoyance than fear.
Yes. The demonstrators are counting on the the liberal city to keep them safe.
The early Civil Rights and Anti-Vietnam War protests made few friends among conventional American voters.
Nonetheless, the demos developed momentum among the faithful and moved the Overton Window for the rest.
Both worked in the long term. The left imprinted these successes as the blueprint for further activism.
I’m not saying that the pro-Hamas demos are morally equivalent to the Civil Rights and Anti-Vietnam War demos. Just that the strategy is the same.
@huxley > “I’m not saying that the pro-Hamas demos are morally equivalent to the Civil Rights and Anti-Vietnam War demos. Just that the strategy is the same.”
The ignorant and indoctrinated students, and older people who should know better, have been convinced that eliminating Israel, and possibly all the Jews, is indeed a morally righteous goal.
How they got that way is explored by Jon Haidt in this post and associated excerpt from one of his books, which explores the phenomenon in general, not necessarily the Protest du jour.
.
It’s Marxist Tribalists all the way down.
https://www.afterbabel.com/p/antisemitism-on-campus
https://www.afterbabel.com/p/victim-oppressor-mindset
@ Barry > one of the comments from the LI post is relevant to the topic of Why are pro-Hamas/Palestinians making so many attacks on normal people that are going to alienate a goodly number (as the Climate Idiots have done lately).
Au contraire, mon ami: not stupid at all.
They are practicing the Leftist Ratchet Function to move the Overton Window by testing what they can get away with.
This one looks out of reach for now (too blatantly targeted for the top echelon to take the heat), despite the success in persuading so many academic and government functionaries to allow them carte blanche in their protests.
They may be alienating the normies who aren’t sufficiently indoctrinated in the Marxist paradigm, but they are also getting publicity to draw in more people who are.
Perhaps they are hoping for sufficient grass roots (weed roots?) to augment their paid protesters enough to disguise the Astroturf nature of most of these “spontaneous eruptions of emotion.”
Agree…but it’s not over till it’s over…the question being, when will people decide that enough is enough already?
(And yes, some of those comments to the Dyer post are fascinating…)
The targets are politicians.
Like a faceoff between two antagonists. One slaps the oth and says what are you going to do about it punk?
The Muslims are culturally confident and what’s left of Christianity is feminized.
A strong reaction must come hard and quick or it will be a disastrous clash
The issue is never the issue.
Gaza is the excuse. The real goal is to drive Christmas, and by extension Christian thought and symbols, from the public domain.
This serves the goals of both the Leftists and the Islamists.
Christmas was “cancelled” in Bethlehem this year. Do you really think it will make a comeback next year?
I don’t think the demonstrations frighten anyone for more than a moment, and they probably make enemies of some people who might ordinarily be more sympathetic. I suppose the disruptions appeal to those who are already onboard with support for the genocidal jihadis, but is there anyone else who might be moved towards support? I really can’t think of any group.
It’s entirely about raw power. They don’t wish for us to agree with them. They want us to submit to them.
They’ll have to kill me, because I ain’t doing it.
@ I Callahan > “They’ll have to kill me, because I ain’t doing it.”
Saw a bumper sticker here in Colorado nearly 20 years ago that stated that sentiment very succinctly.
ARMED INFIDEL
I have been thnking the same thing or awhile that the distruptions are turning more and more people off. I prefer that people see these lowlives for what they truly are, I will bet that they try to disrupt the Times Square New Years celebrations. The more I read about Mao’s Cultural Revolution I see so much similairites to the pro Hamas rioters with the young ignorant Gen Z’s as the new Red Guards.
BrooklynBoy:
I’ve been comparing our leftist youth to the Red Guards for nearly ten years, in many posts. The first one was this.
These are the same people who’ve been protesting in favor of kidnapping and murdering Jewish babies — it’s not exactly surprising that they’re against the holiday celebrating one.
And a surefire way to pick up stupid hippie chicks.
AesopFan:
Thanks for the Jonathan Haidt links. Good readin’!