Here’s a telling quote from Erdogan, that champion of democracy
Here’s an Erdogan quote on democracy, made in the 1990s when Erdogan was the mayor of Istanbul:
“Democracy is like a train: when you reach your destination, you get off.”
Well, can’t say he didn’t warn us. And Turkey may be at the end of the line—everybody out!
Turkey is now a dictatorship in all but name. Given Erdogan’s Islamist support, it will become either another Iran or it will devolve into civil war, ala Syria.
The Social Democrats were democratic only so long as they were not the ruling party; that is, so long as they still felt themselves not strong enough to suppress their opponents by force. The moment they thought themselves the strongest, they declared themselves– as their writers had always asserted was advisable at this point– for dictatorship. Only when the armed bands of the Rightist parties had inflicted bloody defeats on them did they again become democratic “until further notice.” Their party writers express this by saying: “In the councils of the social democratic parties, the wing which declared for democracy triumphed over the one which championed dictatorship.”
Of course, the only party that may properly be described as democratic is one that under all circumstances– even when it is the strongest and in control– champions democratic institutions.
Mises, Ludwig von (1927). Liberalism .
Obama and Kerry know that Erdogan is an autocrat and he has destroyed Turkey’s democracy. He wants to turn it into an Islamic state. But they had to jump in and back him.
Cornhead,
Obama’s consistent backing of Erdogan, whom he’s known from the start was an Islamist is not accidental or even a case of realpolitik.
So they didn’t have to, they wanted to, as it serves their purpose. Islamist states are a mortal threat to liberal Western regimes but serve to attack nationalist elements in the West. Any liberal/leftists who fall are merely collateral damage, regrettable but necessary.
Too bad. May be the end of the line for Kemal Ataturk’s glorious legacy. I wonder when all the pictures of him will start to come down off the walls.
GB
Add in the Iran deal and it is all clear. Saw a blurb about more missle testing by Iran; contrary to UN resolution.
Wondering if Obama’s approval rating drops below 40% when Iran tests its nukes.
“Wondering if Obama’s approval rating drops below 40% when Iran tests its nukes.”
One would hope so but I won’t be holding my breath. The excuse will be, ‘at least he tried’. Some people will sacrifice anything in order to cling to their illusions.
JK Brown Says:
July 17th, 2016 at 1:37 pm
The Social Democrats were democratic only so long as they were not the ruling party; that is, so long as they still felt themselves not strong enough to suppress their opponents by force. The moment they thought themselves the strongest, they declared themselves– as their writers had always asserted was advisable at this point– for dictatorship. …
Of course, the only party that may properly be described as democratic is one that under all circumstances– even when it is the strongest and in control– champions democratic institutions.
Mises, Ludwig von (1927). Liberalism .
* * *
Churchill opined that “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”
There is usually some semblance of restraint from dictatorship, as long as the public insists on it, so all parties champion democracy even when they have won if it’s possible for the tables to turn in the next election.
Now, we have one party campaigning openly on shutting down the democratic process as soon as they win.
I know I sound like a paid flack for J. E. Dyer, but her blog posts are the only ones I read regularly that give deep context to the machinations in the Middle East and Russia – particularly when the two connect, as they are now in Turkey.
http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/07/17/turkey-goes-off-rez-looks-like-natos-going/
“The key to understanding what just happened is the handful of things Erdogan did, immediately, that he didn’t have to do, as a response to a coup attempt by the military.
Until a few hours ago, we might have thought the prompt detention of more than 2,700 judges and prosecutors in the Turkish judicial system was chief among those. That’s a lot of judges and prosecutors to run out and arrest right away — within hours — after a coup planned by a rogue element in the military. It sure looks like someone was just waiting to execute an order on that one.
But the picture is clearer now. And it’s obvious that the most important thing Erdogan did was allow one of the government’s ministers to blame the United States for the coup attempt.
Erdogan’s corollary (not premise; corollary) to that completely unnecessary move has been that the shadowy Islamist cleric Fetulleh Gulen is behind the attempt (a proposition that looks iffy, at best), and the U.S., where Gulen has taken refuge, needs to turn him over to Turkey at once, or risk Turkey’s wrath.
Erdogan is using that corollary now as a justification to shut down operations at Incirlik Air Base, from which U.S. and Coalition warplanes fly for ops against ISIS in Syria.
But that’s not his major objective, or his biggest concern. Erdogan doesn’t give a rat’s patootie about ISIS, which is useful to him but far from essential. He wouldn’t issue ultimatums to Obama as a way of shielding ISIS.
No, Erdogan’s biggest concern is something hardly anyone noticed on this side of the Atlantic in the past week. It really matters that the “something” changes everything, from Erdogan’s point of view. As our vice president might say, it really effing matters.
That something is the disclosure that Obama is seriously planning to subordinate U.S. operations in Syria to Russia’s leadership.”
RTWT
(I would be interested in seeing if anyone else is following a writer with a similar, or persuasively different, analysis of the situation.)
To answer my own question, here is Spengler (David Goldman):
http://atimes.com/2016/05/turkeys-demographic-winter-and-erdogans-duplicity/
http://atimes.com/2016/07/the-sick-man-of-europe-once-again/
While I wouldn’t wish any country into undemocratic rule, we could get lucky and Erdogan’s thirst for power could cause more problem’s for Islamists than us.
Not much of a silver lining, but I suppose possible.
I agree that the boychild messiah favors islamic strong horses, he sees Erdogan as a strong horse., as he sees the Iranian regime. He is just confused about whether to back the shites or the sunni side of the street, or both.
See Robert Spencer’s latest on Gulen:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/263536/hillarys-imam-robert-spencer
Opposition to Erdogan, although totally justified, doesn’t get us out of the woods WRT Turkey.
No. Not even if they test them on Omaha. [think of Michael Moore’s remarks after 9/11]
Obama, as polls have consistently shown has one virtually solid block of approval that is unshakable no matter what the outcome; probably since nothing could ever be his fault and whatever happens is more satisfying and better than if he had not been there.
Think about it for a moment. What could possibly befall the US during the Obama administration which would upset those whose aim was in fact to “fundamentally transform” America, and see it refashioned into something else for someone else?
The attack on the Wold Trade Center did what in the way of provoking conversions exactly? Helped to push our hostess and Ron Silver over the edge, along with a couple of comedians and social critics? That is to say, liberals who were naive enough to imagine that the ultimate aim of the liberalism of their fellows actually had something to do with the preservation and expansion of liberty and personal agency, rather than solidarity and the escape from the psychological anxieties and resentments provoked by personal moral responsibilities?
If you really hate your neighbor, some bitter clinger you despise for example, and whose selfishness and obsession with interpersonal boundaries is just impeding the arrival of the peace and justice millennium, you may find the notion of a “foreigner” killing him, quite to your liking.
AesopFan,
I too am an admirer of J.E. Dyer. No one of whom I am aware, offers anything approaching her expertise in military analysis.
That said, IMO her grasp of political and ideological considerations is less expert, though I do see her progressing on those fronts as well.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-18/top-turkish-official-charge-campaign-against-isis-found-dead-shot-neck
The coup sure brought sunshine to Erdogan.
He’s up past 20,000 political prisoners to this hour — and keeps on rolling.
top-turkish-official-charge-campaign-against-isis-found-dead-shot-neck
Amazing efficiencies for any police state.
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