After Wednesday’s debate, it’s attack-Rubio time for Jeb and the left
Have you noticed that Rubio is now more of a target since his performance in the Wednesday debate?
I think it’s obvious why the left finds him a formidable opponent: young, quick, able to deliver a blow without looking mean, Hispanic, and the closest thing the Republican roster has to hip. Does that mean he’s my favorite candidate at this point? No; I prefer Cruz. But my gut tells me Rubio will go further.
You can see the way the left’s attack on Rubio is likely to proceed, because it’s now picking up. Oh, and Jeb Bush (not exactly the left, but one of the very bottom tier of candidates in my book if not the bottom) is using the same approach, because even after Wednesday evening’s debacle for him he continues to see it as in his best interests to attack Rubio.
William Jacobson at Legal Insurrection describes the reports in US News and the NY Times:
…[T]eam Jeb is selectively “leaking” it’s oppo-research files on Rubio…
There’s nothing inherently wrong with oppo-research dumps. That’s why oppo-research is done. And if there is a damaging skeleton in Rubio’s closet, let’s find out now.
But in this case it smells vindictive and petty, a way to overcome Jeb’s downward spiral not by attacking the leaders in the polls ”” Trump and Carson ”” but by attacking Rubio out of spite.
Looking at the substance of the articles, Ed Morrissey of Hot Air notes that:
…[N]one of this [the accusations the Bush campaign has released about Rubio] is a secret, and Rubio has already answered these issues ”” repeatedly, in some cases. But another line hinted to donors that Mitt Romney and his campaign got scared off of Rubio when they looked deeper: “Those who have looked into Marco’s background in the past have been concerned with what they have found.” The “those” in that quote apparently is supposed to refer to Romney’s people, who back in 2012 vetted Rubio, among many others, as a possible VP candidate. The Romney people—in the person of Beth Myers, a till-now Bush supporter who was in charge of Romney’s VP vetting process—vehemently deny the claim.
I had thought that one of Bush’s assets (with whoever thinks he has assets) was his rep as a nice guy and a Party man (as opposed to party animal). But he seems all too willing to trash one of the party’s up-and-coming possible leaders in order to supposedly help himself. But it’s not going to help him—IMHO, nothing will help him because, as I noted a year and a half ago, he is a candidate without a constituency and without appeal.
Look for more and more and more articles in the future from the liberal and leftist press on Rubio’s finances (here’s a beginning). Another thing I’ve noticed is “helpful” newcomers to blogs, who have suddenly arrived post-Wednesday-debate in order to drop some sharply-worded comments about Rubio.
It’s not just Rubio, of course. Whoever becomes the frontrunner or is considered a particular threat will become the target. This is politics, and the candidates had better be ready for it.
You know, since Senator Rubio wants to be President after one term as a Senator, he should be asked questions, and provide answers, about his record of accomplishment. My sense is that it is not very impressive; closer to that of the current White House occupant than he would like for us to notice.
We have tried the route of electing a President with a very shallow resume, and a golden microphone. Which is not to suggest that Obama and his teleprompter are in the same league as Rubio in that regard. But, much more is needed.
Limbaugh, invaded my home today and during the few minutes I was paying attention, he castigated Bush for dwelling on his record as Governor. Really? Have we lost our perspective completely? Should we elect a President based entirely on youthful looks? On a smooth tongue? On the ability to make promises with a straight face? On the proclivity to insult everyone who disagrees with you–and call it speaking truth?
Limbaugh is out in right field, as is often the case. Sure, Bush refers to his record, but he has also put forth a very credible program for governing during his campaign.
Off topic; but, I am surprised that no one has taken up the gauntlet over Carly being denigrated because she looks too serious. Compared to who? The blustering village clown? (I won’t name his name) Where are you on this ladies–and gentlemen? Well, I noticed a women’s panel on TV seriously discussing her dour demeanor. I don’t know who they were, because I sent them on their way without checking.
I am continually amazed, and dismayed, that so much emphasis is put on reaction to these charades that are labeled as debates. Suddenly, polls of 400+ voters, or internet surveys in which anyone, and everyone can weigh in, are defining winners and losers. I expect major surprises when votes are actually cast, and people start thinking about who they want to govern, and not who had the “best moment” on a stage. Yes, I heard allegedly serious pundits discussing the performance in just those terms; i.e. who had the “best moments”.
Neo: “the closest thing the Republican roster has to hip. Does that mean he’s my favorite candidate at this point? No; I prefer Cruz. But my gut tells me Rubio will go further.”
I think you underestimate the ‘hip’ potential of Cruz as an intriguingly sincere and sharp iconoclast for the political milieu who also has standing with the establishment.
Eric:
I hope you’re right. I’ll be very curious what happens in the polls to Cruz’s standing, post-debate.
We are at a dangerous crossroads in this country. If the candidates in the low single digits really cared about our collective future and all the presidency confers upon the outcome of that future, they would drop out now. If they truly loved this country and what it has been to the world – they would drop out now. They would leave their egos and their political machinations behind. They would drop out and let 4 or 5 contenders go forth so that we can see who really can pull this off. Because that is what it is going take against Hillary! – pulling it off. Jeb needs to GO. We don’t need a Bush vs CLinton ticket – it is ridiculous to think it is even a possibilty.
I think you underestimate the ‘hip’ potential of Cruz as an intriguingly sincere and sharp iconoclast for the political milieu who also has standing with the establishment.
Cruz has “standing with the establishment”? News to me. I thought he was the go-to anti-establishment guy, and that they responded in kind.
I roll my eyes every time a former governor trots out his accomplishments…Kasich and Bush I’m looking at you. It gets boring to hear the same junk over and over from them. I’d rather hear about their policy ideas and see how well they handle the pressure of the debate format and how much they push back (like Cruz).
The accomplishments, of course, are the ‘proof’ that someone has done something. But when it’s the same litany of percentages and numbers, my eyes glaze over. Especially when most of us know numbers can be massaged to show anything you want.
I want straight, honest answers on policy ideas and ideas for fixing the federal government. If your history doesn’t back up the promises, then I’ll know not to vote for you.
Was anyone else sick of Kasich bringing up how he ‘balanced the budget’ this and ‘balanced the budget’ that? Ugh.
K-E:
I’m tired of Kasich standing on that stage and saying anything. He has no chance and needs to go. He got a ton of airtime during that debate because he’s most in tune with the politics of the moderators.
Ann,
He’s a US Senator.
Rubio, as noted, has many attractive attributes, and his masterful attack on the msm was very Reaganest. But he has some explaining to do in order to expect the base, so important in the early primaries, to give him their support.
“Whoever becomes the frontrunner or is considered a particular threat will become the target. This is politics” neo
“politics” assumes an inherent loyalty to the society of which they are a part. The liberal and leftist press are not loyal Americans in that their loyalty to America is contingent upon America becoming a coercive Amerika. Their continual obfuscation, distortion and outright lying demonstrate their disloyalty.
Rubio is smooth, and very comfortable in front of the cameras. I can see why he’s the designated target, for all the reasons you’ve listed as well as just how old and out of touch he makes Hillary (or Bernie) look by comparison.
* * * * *
Regarding Cruz and potential hipness, there’s that fabulous SABO poster (http://unsavoryagents.com/?projects=ted-cruz).
There are also the stencils that have been popping up with simply his name and the Mockingjay symbol from the “Hunger Games” books/movies (http://tinyurl.com/nblncpm). Interesting cultural reference for a Republican (not typical seen as rebels), and yet…it fits.
I might like Cruz except that he wants to expand immigration and expand h1b visa programs which take jobs away and are used to depress wages for those who are working
In 2013, Sen. Cruz proposed amendments to the “Gang of 8” bill that would strengthen border security, expand green card opportunities, increase high-skilled “H1B” visas, prevent illegal aliens from receiving welfare benefits, and enforce the rule of law
http://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=issue&id=33
so basically the same old dem promise… which wont strengthen the borders, will expand immigration not slow it down a bit for whats here to assimilate, and take out the stem fields by h1b.. which results in paying companies 12k a year to hire foreign workers and fire american workers. its ALWAYS done this and they have always said they have a crisis.
where i work salaries are on average 20% under market, and they want h1b visas as well…
its supposed to be used to get talent you cant find. so what does that mean when the fired have to train the hired?
Pink Slips at Disney. But First, Training Foreign Replacements
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html?_r=0
i work in healthcare, so you may find them importing the workers they need to make up aca losses.
i have already gone without a raise, promotion, or salary adjustment for 11 years and have been living on a fixed income, so now i should vote for someone who is planing to import foreign workers to replace me and put my wife and i on welfare?
[edited for length by n-n]
i should point out that they are also pushing for women and minorities in stem, while importing workers to displace american workers, so i guess which group thats unprotected goes first under social justice? and so the ladies that would be with them go with them too… and their children… and so on…
they have been claiming this programmer crisis since 1970s.. never stopped. like the other leftist bs… but it let ted kennedy pass the law…
for 40 years they have been gaming the system for large companies this way, and companies been donating to which party to keep it… they also will donate to the republicans too.. .ergo cruz… big money from doubling h1b visas and perks that span india to indiana…
no to cruz… for this and other things…
Amazing comments. Hip, smooth. That’s the criteria? Who has the best moments decides who wins the debate?
And the election?
We are really in trouble.
Bush and Kasich have two problems. They are not smooth or hip; and they simply do not know how to play the stupid game they have found themselves in. I am sure that they expected to run grown up campaigns based on the issues, and on their records. Instead, they find themselves in a political “beauty contest” in which he with the cleverest pre-planned quip, wins the prize. (Well, they each have at least a third problem. Kasich is just grating; and Bush is too nice to play rough, and comes off badly when he tries.) By the way, I say he because apparently it has been decided by those who decide these things, that she is no longer relevant.
Janetoo, your comment is confounding. Look back over a few election cycles and see what the relative standings were 13 months out–before the first vote had been cast by the way. Look at the Presidents who fell short the first time and won later–that includes Reagan. Many of those second tier candidates are young enough to do just that; and there is no reason they should sacrifice exposure now if they don’t have to.
Artfldgr Says:
October 30th, 2015 at 5:52 pm
I am in agreement. The American worker is getting cast aside in favor of foreign workers. I really don’t believe it when people say they cannot find the talent here, especially when those “fired” are the trainers.
Common sense tells me that the amount of money spent on visas and immigration could go a long way in making sure that current employees are “up to snuff”, and adequately trained. And if whatever we are doing in our schools and universities does not supply the needed talent perhaps it is best to actually work harder here for qualified and able students. I am not knowledgeable enough in the area of education to comment.
And I suspect that when there is so much fee stuff — including education — there is little impetus for us to work hard.
Great. Rubio is 44 and is “hip”.
Ryan is 45.
Rubio is an all-mouth US Senator, like Barack Hussein was.
Ryan has chaired Ways and Means only this year. Now, as Speaker, things will be done “his way”.
Meanwhile, Barack is keeping his veto pen handy.
Two buckets of warm p–Err, spit.
Great.
I’m sticking with the Three Cs.
The format I suggest for candidate debates is adapting a Congressional hearing model.
Each GOP candidate takes a turn in front of a panel made up only of the other GOP candidates who act as interlocutors.
The GOP candidate ‘on the stand’ can give an opening and closing statement, but otherwise the entire period is spent responding to examination by the other GOP candidates.
Whether they want to be adversarial, collaborative, wonkish, petty, etc, with each other is up to them, understanding that the interlocutor is being judged by viewers, too.
All the candidates agree beforehand on a neutral non-candidate moderator who doesn’t get involved with substance, but simply manages the format and ground rules like a chair.
A common website can be set up for the candidates to upload additional material relevant to subject matter raised in the debates, like reports are supplied at Congressional hearings. In fact, staff for the candidate ‘on the stand’ can have his staff ready to upload the material in real-time during the debates.
Forgot to add to the Congressional hearing model, relating it to Artfldgr’s point, which is why I thought to make the comment in the 1st place:
If a particular candidate emphasized a particular issue like immigration, he would have his turn challenging the record and position of every other candidate on that issue while they’re ‘on the stand’.
“We are really in trouble”.
A mean, snarky person would say, “what was your first clue?”. But, I’m not going to do that because you seem like a nice, thoughtful person. Presidential campaigns have been a beauty contest since the invention of the television. It sucks but that is reality.
It was a stupid idea for Bush to ever run in the first place. Because of his Last Name. In fact it was such a magnificently stupid idea that I cannot discount the idea he is running just to help Rubio.
remember Cruz is also in for this (doubling h1b visas is only one part) – Rubio too:
America is about to break every known immigration record. And yet you are unlikely to hear a word about it,” they write. “The Census Bureau projects that the foreign-born share of the U.S. population will soon eclipse the highest levels ever documented, and will continue surging to new record highs each year to come.”
The numbers are daunting. As recently as the 1970s, fewer than one in 21 U.S. residents were foreign born. According to the Census Bureau, over the next eight years the number of foreign born residents will reach an all-time high, with a total of 51 million immigrants accounting for more than one in seven U.S. residents, or approximately 14.8% of the nation’s population.
And it won’t stop there. If current immigration policies remain in place, the bureau is projecting an immigrant population growth rate nearly four times faster than that of the native-born population.
Thus, the foreign-born share of the population will reach 57 million, or 15.8% of the population in 2030, 65 million (17.1%) in 2040, and a whopping 78 million (18.8%) by 2060. By that year the nation’s total population will grow to 417 million, representing 108 million more people than we had in 2010. “This increase is roughly equivalent to adding the combined populations of California, Texas, New York, Florida, and Massachusetts to the country,” the bureau explains.
“For these and countless other interest groups who helped write the bill, it delivered spectacularly: the tech giants would receive double the number of low-wage H-1B workers to substitute for Americans. La Raza would receive the further opening of America’s borders (while Democratic politicians gain more political power). And the billionaire lobby would receive the largest supply of visas for new low-skilled immigrants in our history, transferring wealth and bargaining power from workers to their employers.”
-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-
The consequences? “The Congressional Research Service reports that during the 43 years between 1970 and 2013 – when the foreign-born population grew 325 percent – incomes for the bottom 90 percent of earners fell nearly 8 percent,” Sessions and Brat report.
Nonetheless, the entire Democrat Party is on board with eradicating American prosperity, because they would rather rule in a Third World hellhole than serve in an exceptional nation. They collaborate with the likes of Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL), who would triple the number of H-1B visas, while he remains willfully oblivious to Disney forcing 250 American IT workers to train their foreign replacements or forfeit their severance packages occurring in his own state, or Jeb Bush, who countenances different treatment for border-busters if their lawlessness is motivated by “an act of love” for their families.
http://patriotpost.us/articles/38473
onald Trump Rights Ship on Immigration: Demands Disney Rehire Workers Replaced by Cheap Foreign Labor, Calls Rubio ‘Silicon Valley’s Puppet’
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/29/exclusive-donald-trump-rights-ship-on-immigration-demands-disney-rehire-workers-replaced-by-cheap-foreign-labor-calls-rubio-silicon-valleys-puppet/
It’s like Jeb thinks if he gets rid of Rubio, the Hispanics will be in his pocket.
Very narrow strategic thinking, because this war isn’t really about votes, Hispanic or Chicago dead.
KL Smith, go ahead and be mean and snarky if you like.
As Ben Carson has said, what you think doesn’t affect me.
Just for the record; that was not my first clue that we are in trouble. It is just the latest.
In 2008 we elected a first term Senator from a minority ethnicity because he was smooth, hip, and glib; and of course, a minority. Now, people seem to think we should elect another first term Senator from a minority ethnicity because he is smooth, hip and glib.
It is not accurate Oldflyer to compare Rubio to the mannish boy messiah. Bho hates America, and for all his flaws, Rubio is proud to be an American. I have serious doubts about Rubio, but I do not question his alligence.
Oldflyer:
I don’t think that smooth, hip, and glib, is why anyone here is suggesting we elect Rubio.
I pointed out his sort-of-hipness as an advantage with voters in the general election. Appealing to voters in the general is an important consideration, whether we think it “should” be that way or not. Appealing to the youth vote, etc., is part of winning. I happen to think that, in general, Rubio is fairly conservative and fairly smart. As I’ve said, he’s not my first choice, but despite some flaws I’d be fine with his selection, and I am beginning to think he’s one of the few Republican candidates who could actually win in the general.
Rubio has many differences with Obama, but one of them is that Rubio is only as narcissistic as most politicians.
Rubio is also articulate which is a big plus.
Oldflyer: apologies. in the future I will be more mindful of your tender feelings and lack of a sense of humor.
President Hopenchange is sure he’s smarter than everyone about everything. I cannot at all see him soliciting advice from any advisers, because he already knows more than they do, whatever they’d be advising him on. (There are a couple of specific quotes out there to that effect, but I’m too lazy to dredge them up right now.)
I do not see that in Rubio — or in Carson, Cruz, or Fiorina, or in virtually any of the others. (I *think* even Trump is open to advice, but he may turn out to be problematic in that regard.) Anyway, major difference there.
Appealing to the youth vote, etc., is part of winning.
The youth vote is going the way Youtube and the internet tells them to go, which is namely Leftist thought police or anti Leftist rebels.
Ymarsakar: “The youth vote is going the way Youtube and the internet tells them to go, which is namely Leftist thought police or anti Leftist rebels.”
The activist game, the only social cultural/political game there is.
As you allude to, priority is gaining control of and deploying the social nodes that produce and market narratives that prevail in the zeitgeist. That’s a function for a competitive collective activist movement, which means it’s a Right function. It’s not a GOP function.
Yet on the Right, “mainstream” conservatives continue to refuse to play the activist game and, instead, insist that Republicans achieve the activist function that belongs to the Right. The celebration of GOP candidates turning on the CNBC moderators is just another example of “mainstream” conservatives calling on Republicans to take on the Narrative contest for the zeitgeist while bereft of the activism by the Right that’s needed to seize the social nodes.
Nature abhors a vacuum in any competition, including the activist game that subsumes electoral politics. The effect of “mainstream” conservatives’ unwillingness to be activist is an opening for “anti Leftist rebels” from the alt-Right who are willing to be activist to displace and ultimately replace the “mainstream” conservatives whose unwillingness to be activist is rendering themselves obsolete in the activist game.
The Left activist takeover of the Democrats points the way for Right activists … or hungry alt-Right activists.
Oldflyer:
All of this reliance on current polls is a dangerous thing because it creates a bandwagon effect. Because Candidate X is leading he draws more money and voters. Hence, inevitable.
Monmouth released an Iowa poll on October 27th and only 19% of voters are firmly committed. In July Scott Walker was a clear number one.
Carson and Trump are not qualified to be president. Those voters will move.
This dirt on Rubio may be old news in Florida but is new news in the other 49 states. The use of some other entity’s credit card for his own personal use greatly concerns me.
KLSmith: I am glad you were able to get the snarkiness out of your system for now.
Told you once, but I guess you are a slow learner. You don’t need to worry about my feeling; nothing at all tender there. They were honed by 25 years in the USN, where feelings were not a big issue–until recently.
Neo, I realize that there are great differences between Rubio and Obama; but there are disturbing similarities in the way people react to attributes that have little to do with governing.
If I wanted to go outside of the mainstream politicians, I would go Fiorina, Cruz, then Rubio.
I will, of course, support to the limits of my ability the GOP nominee against HRC. Even if it is Trump–but, that would be tough.
RUBIO is the candidate which Hillary & Company and the Lib-Left-Dem-Koolaid Consumers fear most. He’s JFK without the baggage. The press smarmers protected Senator and, subsequently, President Kennedy from public exposure to his huge deficits of character and health. A few…like Addison’s Disease, Amphetamine Abuse, Multiple-Compulsive Sexual Romps outside Jackie and nearly up to his Dallas trip, etc.
No such “Honor” among MSM-Thieves exists today. Marco Rubio’s life is an open book. Strength of Character, Integrity, Honor, Conservatism, Smart as Hell, Articulate/Nimble/Strong of Spine. Lemme seeee…Handsome, eloquent, knows how to prioritize…There, some of the things this Lifelong So.Californian, now Central Floridian, likes about the man. (*Ohhhh…Adores and honors his wife!!*)
And LOVES this Country and its unique Liberty.
I liked Cruz in the last debate and I’m probably in agreement with a lot of his positions, but I just can’t used to that persona. I’m not sure he’d be good at governing–it always seems to me that all he wants to do is score debating points.
We thought this was the year for experienced governors, but Walker is gone, Jindal can’t get started, Huckabee and Bush were governors too long ago (?), Christie will always have Bridgegate, Kasich likes to annoy conservatives. Of the poised and articulate senators, Rubio seems more electable. I like Fiorina but she worked for an evil corporation (I find it shocking how few people in this country understand profit, loss, or anything at all about the economy). Carson would make a good president for a parliamentary country where there’s a prime minister to do all the dirty work, and he could go to funerals and be a symbol of all that is good in the country. I don’t know what to make of Trump–all the work that goes on thinking, analyzing, explaining conservative principles–and the base goes for Trump! If he winds up running against Hillary, I’ll be looking third party.
I see I forgot my old fave, Rick Santorum, he’s so far down!
Yet on the Right, “mainstream” conservatives continue to refuse to play the activist game and,
Because they are loud and have seniority on issues.
But it doesn’t mean they understand 4th gen warfare or technology in the information age.
It is always the case that older generations, someone mentioned above 45 year old here, are pretty clueless about somethings that the new generation view as closer to their heart. Normally that’s a pejorative stance, but it can also go in reverse.
Obama speaking ability is orating off a Teleprompter (which I always thought he was overrated). Rubio has the ability of like Bill Clinton to speak extemporaneously in grammatically correct well thought out sentences. Obama extemporaneously is full of um, um, er, um ,you know, um er.extemporaneously he’s quite pathetic