Michael Brown case update
The officer who stopped Michael Brown did not do so because he was a suspect in the convenience story robbery, but became suspicious during the course of the exchange with Brown:
[Ferguson Police Chief] Jackson said the officer was aware cigars had been taken in the robbery of a store nearby, but did not know when he encountered Brown and Dorian Johnson that they might be suspects. He stopped them because they were walking in the street, Jackson said.
But Jackson told the Post-Dispatch that the officer, Darren Wilson, saw cigars in Brown’s hand and realized he might be the robber.
It’s not clear whether Wilson did or said anything at that time to alert Brown to his suspicions. There’s no question, however, that Brown knew he had just robbed a store, and would have been understandably reluctant to be taken into custody.
Officer Wilson is a six-year veteran of the force who has no prior disciplinary actions against him. We still don’t know what happened during his exchange with Brown, except that he shot and killed Brown. It is hard to believe, however, that Wilson—who had been interacting on a daily basis with the mostly-black population of Ferguson for many years with no reported incidents of racism or excessive violence—suddenly and for no reason decided on a whim to kill a black and cooperative, non-aggressive 18-year-old who had stolen a bunch of cigars. It is far more likely that Brown, conscious of his own guilt and fearful of getting a police record (and coming off of an incident in the store where he was already throwing his weight around), forcefully resisted arrest, which may have sparked the shooting.
I continue to reserve judgment, however, until the forensic evidence comes in. There’s a lot more to be learned about the facts in this case.
Gateway Pundit has a description of what the officer said transpired. He claims that Brown charged him. Given that a shot had already been fired in the car and the cop had already been assaulted, it’s not hard to believe that the 290 lb Brown would be a threat. We see in the theft video that Brown was no stranger to roughing someone up. A cop is not obligated to engage in a fist fight just because the bad guy is unarmed. If he feels there is potential for serious bodily harm to himself, that is enough to use a weapon.
The key is going to be the bullet hole(s) in the car and in Mr. Brown. If the wounds of mister Brown are mostly in front, the claim that he was charging is supported. Police are trained to not allow assailants to close with them. They are trained to keep shooting until the attacker is down and not moving.
If the cop was shooting a 9mm pistol, that is a caliber known for not stopping people. That would apply to a 290lb man. You don’t shoot once and wait to see if it was effective. Once the decision to shoot is made, you empty your pistol. Too many cops are killed with their own weapon.
Neo points out that Brown’s mindset was conscious of his own crime and did not know whether the policeman knew of it. His disposition was still belligerent; that’s what hogging the road on foot is. Mr. Frank (above) adds a great point, a cop should especially not be obligated to a fist fight with a 290-lb 18-year-old. This post and the comment compose the most plausible scenario of what is public knowledge at the moment.
Check this out. If they could get the guys in the background to testify..
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/08/15/exceptional-catch-the-jj-witness-video-eye-witness-audio-of-mike-brown-shooting-sharing-brown-doubled-back-toward-police/
“I continue to reserve judgment, however, until the forensic evidence comes in. There’s a lot more to be learned about the facts in this case.”
So neo still believes in “facts”. How quaint.
There is really only one circumstance that I think could make this shooting justified- and that would be if Brown had rushed at the officer after the gun had been drawn out, and even that is a stretch for me. Now, there is some evidence that boy did rush the officer. Like Neo, I would have to see the forensic evidence, but that might never tell you anything conclusive, however, if most of the bullets are front entries or rear entries, you can draw some inferences about how it went down.
The video linked by Paul in Boston certainly indicates that Brown was not just docilely surrendering.
Here’s another take on the incident from :
http://clashdaily.com/2014/08/michael-brown-case-suddenly-blows-wide-open-likely-slam-dunk-favor-police/#qXtTXZojBZRIT6YE.99
“At first, things were not looking very good for Wilson. Multiple “eyewitnesses” went on record in the media over the last few days, claiming that Wilson needlessly gunned Brown down in the street while Brown was running away, then firing more shots into Brown after he allegedly stopped, turned, and put his hands in the air.
While those witnesses do not dispute that there had been an altercation between Brown and Wilson at the door of Wilson’s patrol car, along with an initial gunshot by Wilson from inside the vehicle, they nonetheless insist that Brown had been doing nothing wrong except walking in the middle of the street with his friend before being violently accosted by Wilson “for no reason” other than jaywalking.
Brown’s companion, Johnson, alleged that Wilson had first reached up through the window from inside the car and grabbed the 6′ 4,” 300lb Brown by the neck—an unlikely and virtually impossible scenario, based on the reality of physical circumstances. Johnson also claimed that Wilson then tried to pull Brown into the vehicle with him, which also makes no sense whatsoever in terms of tactics.
From the start, the police version has been that Brown attacked Wilson when the officer tried to exit his patrol car to confront him; Brown shoved Wilson back inside the vehicle and proceeded to beat him and grab for his gun, prompting Wilson to shoot Brown in self-defense, inside the vehicle.
Official reports are that officer Wilson has lacerations and contusions on his face from Brown beating him, and a spent shell casing was retrieved from inside the patrol car.
The newly discovered fact that Wilson confronted Brown not merely for jaywalking, but for robbery (a violent crime) means that Wilson not only had a perfectly good reason to shoot Brown in the first place—self defense of his own life when Brown attacked him and tried to grab his gun—but that after that, Wilson was also justified in shooting Brown if he indeed fled. Use of deadly force policy warrants it if the person is deemed at the time to be a further threat to the community, which after the act of robbery and of trying to kill a cop, Brown certainly would have been.”
It’s very pro the policeman, but may be closer to the real story than what is being established as the narrative of an unwarranted killing for “walking while black.”
The meeting that was held in Ferguson today that was covered by Fox News does not make me confident that this is going to be calmed down through talk and diplomacy. The Governor (Nixon) and the head of the State Patrol – Ron Johnson, a black man of great character, – did their best to appeal to reason while explaining that the FBI was investigating the death as a racial crime. It didn’t seem to matter. The people, and some who are not residents, are spoiling for trouble. The Governor and State Police are trying to do it the easy way, but it isn’t working. My prediction: If their curfew tonight doesn’t work, the next step will be to declare martial law and bring in the National Guard. Shades of the 1970s.
The eye witness testimony in a case like this is often of dubious value. The forensic investigation and the evidence it produces, which will include any injuries suffered by Wilson, should provide a clear picture of the sequence of the events. Patience folks.
The only fact that I am sure of is that nothing justifies the looting and destruction caused by the “protesters.” What a wonderful way to combat white racist impressions of blacks. If only Obama’s stimulus plan to get young blacks employed insulating houses had worked, perhaps all the looting thugs would have been doing something else during the last week.
The preliminary evidence suggests that Brown overreacted and caused a confrontation which warranted Wilson to act in self-defense. Wow. Deja vu.
Even going by the fellow robber’s account there are a few events that would support justifiable use of deadly force. Although, mostly be cause of the speed of the event, less than 3 minutes.
Johnson said the officer’s door hit them and bounced back. This could be unintentional, but it is also a intimidation tactic. In any case, once the officer was impeded from leaving his car, his perceived threat condition would go way up. I’d expect he drew his firearm from his holster given his vulnerable position to someone hitting through the window. Even if Brown simply sought to block the firearm from being brought to bear, that would be perceived as a direct imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury and now the officer’s threat condition is on a rocket headed for the moon. The discharge in the car seems to have not struck Brown, although it would be justified most likely. If the discharge happened unintentionally during a struggle over the gun, now the officer’s threat condition is headed for Mars.
The shots as Brown ran a way are possibly problematic given the governing SCOTUS decision. In my state, they would definitely be a problem as the state law explicitly imposes tighter limits than the court case. That does not appear to be the case in Missouri law. But as reports seem to indicate, the shots did not strike Brown, they are an administrative/civil issue rather than proximate to the fatal wounding.
But from the initial reports, Brown was not running away but had stopped and turned (or was turning) when the fatal shot(s) struck. Hands up is a broad term and no specific details of their position in relation to the officer is given (physical evidence may be able to clarify). If not in plain view, as Brown turned, a reasonable fear may be able to be articulated. Or if Brown was not “stopped” but rounding such behavior could be a reasonable threat given the events prior. A big factor here is that even as things changed, it takes time for such changes to enter the officer’s perception.
Remember, from the time of the first words to when a second officer arrived was 3 minute. The whole shooting even happened inside that 3 minutes.
Much has been of the assertion that Brown “just stole some cigars”, a petty theft. From the video it is apparent that Brown committed strong-arm robbery, a violent felony that is legally equivalent to armed robbery.
The prime witness was an accomplice to the same felony, which tends to discredit his statements a self serving.
C’mon, blacks are entitled to overreact; it’s their culture. Ever watch Hardcore Pawn?
THe Left doesn’t care about facts. They are full up on the war front and mobilizing. People need to pay attention.
We still know nothing of Michael Brown’s history. What kind of student was he? Had he ever been arrested? Had he been in trouble in school? Did he play sports? Who were his friends in school? What did teachers think of him? The silence has to be intentional.
Mr. Frank, Brown’s rap sheet is all over the ‘net. He was awaiting disposition of four felony charges from 11/2/13, when he was an adult, at the time he was killed after committing strong arm robbery at the convenience store, another felony. He also has a sealed juvie record.
Brown was no choirboy.
I’m pretty sure that rap sheet pertains to another Michael Brown. I also can’t find any reliable report that he had a sealed juvenile record.
The witness on this recording needs to come forward Drudge had the link to the transcript. the original, very raw video is on YT:
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdL9dqkyjhM
The fact that the Holder Justice D ordered the autopsy done over indicates that it supports some important aspect of the officer’s story. The guy who performed it clearly did not appreciate the larger narrative supporting anti-black racism prevailing in the town.
Perhaps after a thorough and fair investigation of the officer’s life they’ll find at least one incident in which he told an off color joke (NPI) or maybe even used the N word. Then he can be prosecuted for civil rights violations vs Brown.
George:
I have seen nothing that indicates the Michael Brown who was killed had a record.
Okay, Mr. Brown, come back for a moment…Listening, Mr.Multi-Felon..?? Okay, Goooood…. See, here’s the deal: When a Policeman tells you or asks you to do something, Homes…DO IT. I, an aged white boy, have know this ALL my live-long-life,’Yo. Duuuuuhhhh..!
That’s not going to save you from the officers that’ll execute you once you are on the ground and cuffed. Sometimes they even do this accidentally.
Now of course those percentages are much smaller than the black on white contact burns.
Newsflash:
The New York Times reported today that the pathologist who did the second autopsy on Brown (at his family’s request) revealed that there were 6 bullet wounds on Brown’s body.
All were in the front. Not the back, the front.
So now we know that the policeman was faced by Brown when the shooting went down. So far, the facts have been supporting the cop’s story.
Think of this: judging by the smartphone videos of the immediate aftermath of the shooting, it happened in a mostly black neighborhood. The cop was a lone white officer with 6 years of experience, and a spotless record.
But the race pimps want you to believe that he just got a wild hair up his fundus, and decided to shoot this big guy just for kicks and giggles. In broad daylight. For no reason atall.
Now I ask you: does that sound likely?
Bullet wounds were: 4 to the left arm (that would seem to support the voice in the video saying the cop was shooting the charging Brown with no effect), one in the right eye and one toward the top of the head (which could have been right after the eye shot, if Brown was falling forward).
N.B.: There were no exit wounds in the back of the 6’4″, 300 lb. Brown. (That was one huge guy — literally the size of an NFL linebacker; and in the video, you can see he was a violent bully who was used to intimidating people and doing whatever he damn pleased.) Cops will tell you that, in a shooting situation, people aren’t felled by one shot like they are in the movies: it’s more like trying to kill Rasputin, another big dude. (If you don’t know that story, read up on how hard he was to assassinate: it’s pretty incredible.)
Odds are the arm wounds would precede the head wounds and would support multiple shots being necessary to stop the young man.
One of the gun experts will correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is that the pattern of all the shots hitting to the shooter’s left is indicative of the trigger being jerked rather than squeezed. That would suggest that the cop felt threatened and was firing rapidly and under pressure. He was in fear of bodily harm.
Bev,
I think you meant right arm.
One of the reasons that semi automatic 9mm pistols have replaced revolvers in police work is capacity. Sometimes, five or six rounds including misses is not enough. When being charged ten to fifteen is better.
The fact that the wounds are to the top of the arm rather than the underside belies the claims that the man had his arms raised.
So far all the forensic evidence supports the cop.
My bad. The arm wounds drawn in two dimension are ambiguous as to front or underside. Data on trajectory is necessary.
Mr. Frank,
The baseline assumption is that LEOs have extremely limited time on range, and what range time that does exist is not against moving targets in the dark of night. Thus their competency, shot for shot, adrenaline for adrenaline, is inferior to the equivalent top end civilian agents and enforcers. Pros of a different sort.
The trigger finger as well as the grip from the wrist and thumb itself, can both bias the gun down left or right depending on various factors. Tension difference from calm to 180 heart beat per minute adrenalized fear reaction, can cause the hand to grip much harder than expected, thus warping the line of sight on the gun itself so it isn’t pointing where the user thinks it should point given their range time (done calmly).
Training required to adjust for this is to exhaust the muscles of the primary arm, raise the heartbeat beyond 120 beats per minute, then fire during the dark at moving targets to train for it. But that kind of training is not something LEOs are known to undergo. Only civilians or military members, have I ever known that have done such things, since it’s not the normal “range evaluation” method.
Cops will tell you that, in a shooting situation, people aren’t felled by one shot like they are in the movies
Small caliber bullets that aren’t designed to burn/fragment on entry or explode or fired from rifle sized powder cartridges, can easily be absorbed force per square inch by the human tissues, so long as no organs or spine nerves are hit. Even a head shot doesn’t guarantee stopping the body’s automated muscle control systems from acting out pre entered orders.
This is why the 21 feet rule enters in to it. A sufficiently determined that can accelerate quickly given their body mass, can close the gap from 21 feet to within 1 feet, to grapple range, negating the advantaged of ranged tools like firearms. Especially when those tools are not utilized in the proper fashion against high tracking required targets.
A sword like the Japanese katana or wakizashi is much more effective, lethal (hit for hit), and conducive to preventing escalation of violence, since a melee user wants to get close and firearm users want to get “away” from the target. Those two differences in Will often times make people, especially black thugs raised on the meat and potatoes of Black Panther Sharptonism, think you’re scared of them. And when animals sniff fear and see you backing away…
When a firearm user decides it’s do or die time, they grab the gun and use it to shoot people away from them, so the closer the target gets, the harder their dexterity skills are to control and use. Against a melee user, getting closer to them is getting deader by the second, because they move faster, hit stronger, and react a lot better than when calm. Cause they don’t have to use dexterity based movements, they can just swing their arms. It’s not good technique, but then again you don’t need too much technique when 20 inches of forged steel cuts through a person’s meaty and pasty little chest. A six foot gorilla 300 pounds is no more than dead meat to the knowledgeable and trained users of the blade.
American societies and their top down authorities like the LEO community, are very much “firearms” focused. They think the only lethal force pros use comes from bullets and powder (not black powder, that’s the old powder). It produces a deficiency in a person’s toolbox, and it’s not what I would call professional.
A sword is both an offensive tool and a defensive one, as being grappled by bigger and stronger thugs is probably not healthy for you. Grappling with a sword is…. not healthy for them.
There is a point on the range scale at which a sword or longer blade becomes ineffective or less effective. Just as with firearms, hip shooting allows closer range engagements at the same accuracy, but requires greater training time. So the same is with melee, fighting out of your optimum range requires greater dedication and techniques.
http://gunssavelives.net/category/self-defense/
For proof that civilian users of the firearm are much more accurate and competent, go through about 12 of those articles and count the number of shots the civilian had to fire to “end the threat”.
You’ll notice something, I’m sure.
One of the gun experts will correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is that the pattern of all the shots hitting to the shooter’s left is indicative of the trigger being jerked rather than squeezed. That would suggest that the cop felt threatened and was firing rapidly and under pressure. He was in fear of bodily harm.
You are correct about mashing the trigger, but it might not be the cause of the pattern in this case.
Shootings are dynamic, and we don’t know how the players were facing each other when the shots were fired. It is common to put hands in front of yourself when someone aims a gun at you, for instance.
A common reason for poor accuracy is based in how firearms are aimed. To properly aim a firearm with iron sights, the focus should be on the front sight. When facing a threat, the natural tendency is to focus on the threat, not a small protrusion on an object in your hand. Using firearms well takes considerable cool or training to overcome natural tendencies.
For proof that civilian users of the firearm are much more accurate and competent, go through about 12 of those articles and count the number of shots the civilian had to fire to “end the threat”.
That may not be a good way to figure it out. LAPD Metro had stats that showed that for single officer shootings, 3-4 shots were average (IIRC) and the hit rate was a solid 50%. With two officers, many more shots were fired, with many fewer hits. More then two cops was even worse. They didn’t produce a reason for this, but it seems to me that it is due to the fact that multiple cops involved shootings are typically different, and when multiple cops are involved others will likely shoot because their fellow officer did, even without a clear target. Civilians simply face very different situations then cops do typically. That can make a huge difference.
With two officers, many more shots were fired, with many fewer hits. More then two cops was even worse. They didn’t produce a reason for this, but it seems to me that it is due to the fact that multiple cops involved shootings are typically different, and when multiple cops are involved others will likely shoot because their fellow officer did, even without a clear target.
The reason looks obvious. There’s only one vector line a target can go. When it goes towards the only person on deck, it’s approaching and thus target merely gets bigger, unless it zig zags. Few people can zig zag and not get shot merely because they wasted time getting in range. Although in some circumstances like Ft. Hood 1, zig zagging will provide better evasion and cover than trying to charge down a straight line against someone who can shoot a lot of bullets well.
In a group scenario, a lot of people tend to either run away, zig zagging, or run towards one person. Thus from different perspectives, the target is evading most of the fire, from their individual perspectives. The line is neither directly away nor directly towards, except for one or two officers. For people who train solely on the range of linear objects, and using their own ammo because the unions refuse to pay for training (but DHS pays for ammo and military vehicles), they can’t hit targets that don’t stand still.
The other part, where people fire when they hear shots fired at them, should make them more accurate, since they had more time to predict and lead the target than the guy who fired the first shot. Unless they are not leading the target at all or tunnel vision has caused them to just lose sight of their target, cause they keep using their iron sights.
If a group of people truly only pull the trigger when the group fires, then this is a matter of incompetence and irresponsibility on an entirely different level. That merely proves the original point.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m getting tired of this new scared cow status afforded to young black thugs. Even though they are mostly dim witted it has become very clear and obvious to them that they can pretty much do what ever they want. The attitude is backed up by self proclaimed black leaders & their mammas & uncle daddies. Something to remember ,even sacred cows wind up on the slaughter house floor. Its time the scarred