I don’t have time to write a post about this now, but I plan to later: David Irving has pleaded guilty to Holocaust denial, and has been sentenced to three years in prison, which he will appeal.
See this, and also my previous post on Irving, here.
Comments
David Irving sentenced — 12 Comments
ymarsakar… your post is so enlightening. It weighs me down with sadness to see the Fools in my own country as they are led so stealthily to the altar of human sacrifice that islam is preparing for us. Our ways of life will be changed over night when the dawn of islam rises upon the “green and pleasant” land. Then we shall see the civil war in europe break out openly. Whose side will our dear government beon. Why may it be that they are winding down the numbers of recruits to all our armed forces? Why are more and more PC rules being adde to the list of our defence-forces recruitment requirements? Why are they sending our troops to Afghanistan to try?! to eliminate theopium crops But thet do nothing much to arrest the mainly mos. gangs that distribute heroin around the cities? I think these fools in goverment have decided to throw in the towel already. Their only problem is how to distract the public whilst they take it up the ****. woe, woe and thrice woe, said the soothsayer. Beware the ides of….
There is a basic difference between the understanding of ‘freedom’ in America and the rest of Europe. One must start with the fact that America was settled by people, religious people for the most part, who wanted nothing to do with the way things were in Europe. They left by the millions, not thousands. Imagine a Germany of 20 million people losing 3 million people. We think of the American Colonies as English. They were far more German. And they wanted nothing to do with Germany. From that moment, our idea of Freedom and the European idea are fundamentally different. Our Declaration of Independance and Constitution and Bill of Rights say clearly ‘this is what the government can do’. Everything else belongs to the people. Europeans have lived for millenia under the concept that what rights they have been given are the rights that they have. It can look very good, even liberal. In the area of Germany where I live, for example, over six hundred years ago, the emperor declared that everyone had the right to go where they wanted to go, with some necessary restriction for privacy and protection of property. Today, one can wander all over this part of Germany. There are roads between all the fields and walking over them is absolutely delightful. Until you wonder about the rights of the land owners. In Germany, you have no right to build a house on your land. When the city decides that they have the need for a house, they might pick your field and permit you to build a house; so high, so wide, such and such a color, such and such a roof. In American we have Freedom of Religion. We all know what that means. In Germany they have Freedom of Religion. Try to go to the store on Sunday. The state collects the Tithe for the churches. Germans are quick to point out that you can opt out, you don’t have to pay the tithe…. Unless you live in the south of Germany, and you are a teacher or nurse. In the south of Germany the majority of the hospitals and many of the schools are church run. The church, obviously does not discriminate. A Catholic church will hire a Protestant… as long as that protestant pays the tithe. Otherwise he is not a good christian and should not be employed in such an establishment. Want to be an officer in the German Army, better be a good christian (and pay the tithe) attendance at museum..er church is optional. In Europe, they know that Freedom is good. They just don’t really understand what Freedom is. The old joke applies. In America one is free to say that President Bush is just like Hitler. In Europe, one is also free to say that President Bush is just like Hitler. They just don’t quite understand how that is so much like Holocaust Denial.
A lot of Democrats don’t believe that Osama is capable of destroying their way of life. To a movie star, to Paris Hilton, how could they imagine such a danger that their wealth, power, and bodyguards have kept them safe from for so long?
To Democrats, Bush is more of a danger in the Patriot Act and lowering people’s taxes, because Bush is an immediate threat, a threat they understand.
But one way that terroists are able to destroy a Western civilization is through the use of Western props. Such things as multiculturalism, visas, tolerance, and free speech (Or the lack thereof).
If I were a terroist, I’d test just how strong a host nation is with attacks. I.E. Britain. Then I would slowly use the West’s own laws and multiculturalism tolerance to create a base of support, and good morale boosts for my death squads. Then I’d branch out, and activate other squads in places like France, to test how they carry out my objectives, in burning, terrorizing, and killing people in their host nation’s.
While I’m doing so, I am watching out for people that realize my aims and then I will take them out either using the host nation’s laws against intolerance or using my grass roots assassination and intimidation organizations.
Theo Van Gogh, others like him, those are to be made an example of to cow the entire populace. Once that objective is completed, you can use fear to make the majority citizens of a country accept surrender on your terms, in return for their lives.
There are plenty of suicidal foot troopers, and the good thing about the host nation we have chosen for our terroist infiltration is that they don’t even have the death penalty. So every 10 years or so, we get an influx of very good, very experienced, and very hardened terror troopers that we can fill the gaps in our death squads.
Just as the Socialists boosted Hitler to power, and Hitler turned on them, Arab Jihad will be boosted to power by the fake liberals and then will purge the fake liberals along with everyone else.
If you want a better understanding of Islamic Jihad’s strategic control of the globe, just go here and read Austin Bay’s post and zoom in one various parts of the world in Google’s satellite map.
Oriana Fallaci, the only European with balls, has a charge hanging over her head in ITaly for what she wrote about the “religion of peace”. Bridgette Bardot got hauled into court for saying Islam was cruel to animals. Same thing,as somebody has pointed out, happened to that author Houllebec (?). So it isn’t just residual Nazism in the German speaking countries. If you caught this Sunday’s NY Times, the letters to the editor were very interesting. Letter after letter, all in flat, unemotional, very correct prose stated that the very definition of liberalism was ‘respect’ for others. Not liberty, not justice, not the pursuit of happiness, not even progress or equality. No, respect. I’m with Rickl. If those Nurse Ratchets ever get in charge, a lot of us are off to the re-education camps.
I am most emphatically NOT a Holocaust denier, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that Irving should go to jail.
If he was guilty of academic fraud–and it appears he was–then that should be trumpeted from the mountaintops. His reputation should be ruined by serious scholars who carefully and relentlessly use the facts against him. This is the way academic dishonesty should be dealt with.
But this smacks of the Thought Police, that someone could go to jail for expressing unpopular or unconventional opinions.
This shows the evil of “hate speech” laws.
And this should be a shot across the bow of every conservative blogger and every commenter on conservative blogs: This is the fate that awaits you and me if the Stalinist Left should ever regain power. They WILL criminalize dissent. Mark my words.
Neither have American with the PC police in control, but it’s better than nothing.
It’s not just Austria. A good friend’s friend served prison time in Germany for opening discussion (not denial) about the Holocaust, the numbers affected, etc.. Wasn’t even that contrarian. I believe he quoted a certain amount of “forbidden” Torah and O.T. prophets on the subject.
Europe hasn’t really exorcised Nazism, and that’s why they have to make sure everyone toes the line on the subject.
Muzzling the people who published the Muslim cartoons, or trying to, or popping some poor crank in the slammer for denying the holocaust–that’s cosi fan tutti in Europe. I think the USA is the only country in the world with a 1st Amendment; freedom of the press has never had the same force over there as it has here. Except for when they go to college Americans by and large wouldn’t stand for an elite of sour, self righteous prigs telling them what they can and cannot say and read, but that’s us. My old USA drives me nuts sometimes but I think I’ll fight to keep it.
Don’t you know, the Republicans in the United States fought off the PC police the last few elections. We decided we didn’t want Europe’s “utopia” system.
Look who’s laughing now, it ain’t the French or the Germans.
David Irving’s the least of Europe’s problems.
What if I denied slavery in the USA? Should I go to jail for slavery denial?
OT
You may want to read Byron York in today’s NROonline, “He Shall Direct Thy Paths to the Weapons of Mass Destruction” and decide if you want to offer your readers another angle at the Saddam tapes story and what it means.
so, holocaust denial is illegal in austria? Does this mean that the president of iran wont be stopping by for a sacher torte in vienna any time soon?, or does EU threats of arresting heads of state only apply to US presidents?
( yeah I know that david irving isnt a ‘head of state’, I’m just wondering who gets what sort of coverage from the governments of the EU. )
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ymarsakar…
your post is so enlightening.
It weighs me down with sadness to see the Fools in my own country as they are led so stealthily to the altar of human sacrifice that islam is preparing for us.
Our ways of life will be changed over night when the dawn of islam rises upon the “green and pleasant” land.
Then we shall see the civil war in europe break out openly.
Whose side will our dear government beon.
Why may it be that they are winding down the numbers of recruits to all our armed forces?
Why are more and more PC rules being adde to the list of our defence-forces recruitment requirements? Why are they sending our troops to Afghanistan to try?! to eliminate theopium crops But thet do nothing much to arrest the mainly mos. gangs that distribute heroin around the cities?
I think these fools in goverment have decided to throw in the towel already. Their only problem is how to distract the public whilst they take it up the ****.
woe, woe and thrice woe, said the soothsayer. Beware the ides of….
There is a basic difference between the understanding of ‘freedom’ in America and the rest of Europe. One must start with the fact that America was settled by people, religious people for the most part, who wanted nothing to do with the way things were in Europe. They left by the millions, not thousands. Imagine a Germany of 20 million people losing 3 million people. We think of the American Colonies as English. They were far more German. And they wanted nothing to do with Germany. From that moment, our idea of Freedom and the European idea are fundamentally different. Our Declaration of Independance and Constitution and Bill of Rights say clearly ‘this is what the government can do’. Everything else belongs to the people. Europeans have lived for millenia under the concept that what rights they have been given are the rights that they have. It can look very good, even liberal. In the area of Germany where I live, for example, over six hundred years ago, the emperor declared that everyone had the right to go where they wanted to go, with some necessary restriction for privacy and protection of property. Today, one can wander all over this part of Germany. There are roads between all the fields and walking over them is absolutely delightful. Until you wonder about the rights of the land owners. In Germany, you have no right to build a house on your land. When the city decides that they have the need for a house, they might pick your field and permit you to build a house; so high, so wide, such and such a color, such and such a roof. In American we have Freedom of Religion. We all know what that means. In Germany they have Freedom of Religion. Try to go to the store on Sunday. The state collects the Tithe for the churches. Germans are quick to point out that you can opt out, you don’t have to pay the tithe…. Unless you live in the south of Germany, and you are a teacher or nurse. In the south of Germany the majority of the hospitals and many of the schools are church run. The church, obviously does not discriminate. A Catholic church will hire a Protestant… as long as that protestant pays the tithe. Otherwise he is not a good christian and should not be employed in such an establishment. Want to be an officer in the German Army, better be a good christian (and pay the tithe) attendance at museum..er church is optional. In Europe, they know that Freedom is good. They just don’t really understand what Freedom is. The old joke applies. In America one is free to say that President Bush is just like Hitler. In Europe, one is also free to say that President Bush is just like Hitler. They just don’t quite understand how that is so much like Holocaust Denial.
A lot of Democrats don’t believe that Osama is capable of destroying their way of life. To a movie star, to Paris Hilton, how could they imagine such a danger that their wealth, power, and bodyguards have kept them safe from for so long?
To Democrats, Bush is more of a danger in the Patriot Act and lowering people’s taxes, because Bush is an immediate threat, a threat they understand.
But one way that terroists are able to destroy a Western civilization is through the use of Western props. Such things as multiculturalism, visas, tolerance, and free speech (Or the lack thereof).
If I were a terroist, I’d test just how strong a host nation is with attacks. I.E. Britain. Then I would slowly use the West’s own laws and multiculturalism tolerance to create a base of support, and good morale boosts for my death squads. Then I’d branch out, and activate other squads in places like France, to test how they carry out my objectives, in burning, terrorizing, and killing people in their host nation’s.
While I’m doing so, I am watching out for people that realize my aims and then I will take them out either using the host nation’s laws against intolerance or using my grass roots assassination and intimidation organizations.
Theo Van Gogh, others like him, those are to be made an example of to cow the entire populace. Once that objective is completed, you can use fear to make the majority citizens of a country accept surrender on your terms, in return for their lives.
There are plenty of suicidal foot troopers, and the good thing about the host nation we have chosen for our terroist infiltration is that they don’t even have the death penalty. So every 10 years or so, we get an influx of very good, very experienced, and very hardened terror troopers that we can fill the gaps in our death squads.
Just as the Socialists boosted Hitler to power, and Hitler turned on them, Arab Jihad will be boosted to power by the fake liberals and then will purge the fake liberals along with everyone else.
If you want a better understanding of Islamic Jihad’s strategic control of the globe, just go here and read Austin Bay’s post and zoom in one various parts of the world in Google’s satellite map.
Oriana Fallaci, the only European with balls, has a charge hanging over her head in ITaly for what she wrote about the “religion of peace”. Bridgette Bardot got hauled into court for saying Islam was cruel to animals. Same thing,as somebody has pointed out, happened to that author Houllebec (?). So it isn’t just residual Nazism in the German speaking countries.
If you caught this Sunday’s NY Times, the letters to the editor were very interesting. Letter after letter, all in flat, unemotional, very correct prose stated that the very definition of liberalism was ‘respect’ for others. Not liberty, not justice, not the pursuit of happiness, not even progress or equality. No, respect.
I’m with Rickl. If those Nurse Ratchets ever get in charge, a lot of us are off to the re-education camps.
I am most emphatically NOT a Holocaust denier, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that Irving should go to jail.
If he was guilty of academic fraud–and it appears he was–then that should be trumpeted from the mountaintops. His reputation should be ruined by serious scholars who carefully and relentlessly use the facts against him. This is the way academic dishonesty should be dealt with.
But this smacks of the Thought Police, that someone could go to jail for expressing unpopular or unconventional opinions.
This shows the evil of “hate speech” laws.
And this should be a shot across the bow of every conservative blogger and every commenter on conservative blogs: This is the fate that awaits you and me if the Stalinist Left should ever regain power. They WILL criminalize dissent. Mark my words.
Neither have American with the PC police in control, but it’s better than nothing.
It’s not just Austria. A good friend’s friend served prison time in Germany for opening discussion (not denial) about the Holocaust, the numbers affected, etc.. Wasn’t even that contrarian. I believe he quoted a certain amount of “forbidden” Torah and O.T. prophets on the subject.
Europe hasn’t really exorcised Nazism, and that’s why they have to make sure everyone toes the line on the subject.
Muzzling the people who published the Muslim cartoons, or trying to, or popping some poor crank in the slammer for denying the holocaust–that’s cosi fan tutti in Europe. I think the USA is the only country in the world with a 1st Amendment; freedom of the press has never had the same force over there as it has here. Except for when they go to college Americans by and large wouldn’t stand for an elite of sour, self righteous prigs telling them what they can and cannot say and read, but that’s us.
My old USA drives me nuts sometimes but I think I’ll fight to keep it.
Don’t you know, the Republicans in the United States fought off the PC police the last few elections. We decided we didn’t want Europe’s “utopia” system.
Look who’s laughing now, it ain’t the French or the Germans.
David Irving’s the least of Europe’s problems.
What if I denied slavery in the USA?
Should I go to jail for slavery denial?
OT
You may want to read Byron York in today’s NROonline, “He Shall Direct Thy Paths to the Weapons of Mass Destruction” and decide if you want to offer your readers another angle at the Saddam tapes story and what it means.
so, holocaust denial is illegal in austria? Does this mean that the president of iran wont be stopping by for a sacher torte in vienna any time soon?, or does EU threats of arresting heads of state only apply to US presidents?
( yeah I know that david irving isnt a ‘head of state’, I’m just wondering who gets what sort of coverage from the governments of the EU. )