Commenter “George Pal” started a discussion yesterday with this remark in the “voter fraud” thread:
Reason #1016 NOT to vote: a corrupt government with gin trap election procedures. Participating in pretense legitimates the pretense. The system, the procedures, become more dishonest than the simple ways of voter fraud such as stuffing ballot boxes. Ultimately, people get not what they vote for but what they will stand for ”“ Brave New America.
I replied rather briefly:
That makes zero sense for a conservative. Zero.
All not voting does is allow the fraud more chance of working, and empower and elect those who would perpetuate and extend it.
Others joined in, such as commenter “parker:
Not every gop candidate will be a Palin, Cruz, or a Gowdy. And yes, there are many big government gops. However, you need to consider SCOTUS appointments and treaties, plus allowing house legislation to come up for debate in the senate. I agree the country is destined for a big fall. I am concerned with the height of the fall. I’ll take 20 feet over 200 any day.
To which George Pal replied:
I have considered SCOTUS and recall Bush appointed the reprehensible John Roberts. Taking into consideration all the other disastrous appointments made by Republican presidents I don’t consider such considerations as worthwhile. As to the House, have they not, by and large, talked like Patton but rubber stamped like good commissars ”“ even if only by silent acquiescence? And finally, 20 feet or 200 ”“ makes no difference to once fine crystal.
There was quite a bit of additional back-and-forth around this, although I didn’t participate except for that single short comment. One of the reasons is that I’ve had this argument already so many times with so many people going back so many years. It’s not only tedious and repetitive, but those taking the George Pal position usually seem quite unpersuadable. They are nothing if not confident of the rightness of their position.
But why do I bother? It’s not because I have some special beef with George Pal, it’s because attitudes such as his seem widespread among so many on the right (at least, among those who comment on right-wing blogs), and I think they represent a profoundly destructive and also illogical point of view.
So here I go again. And although these comments take off from what George Pal wrote, they’re not meant to refer exclusively or even primarily to him.
It’s an old, old battle, older even than our country. Let’s just say (at the risk of going all literary on you) that I think this argument is a subset of the dichotomy represented in Don Quixote by the Don and Sancho Panza. Lest you wonder, I consider my side the Sancho side.
However, the GP world is as much a fantasy world as the one the Don lived in. My questions about the actual real-world consequences of such attitudes and the actions based on them have never been answered except for some version of “because the parties are not different enough for my tastes, they’re exactly the same and so it doesn’t matter who you vote for,” and/or “if we let liberals be elected, eventually it will drive people towards conservatism.”
I’ve already responded to that second claim at some length here as well as here. I’m not going to recap in this post, but suffice to say that my opinion is that it’s not the most likely result at all, and that people espousing that point of view (and I have no idea whether that’s George Pal’s reasoning, although it’s the reasoning of many) gravely underestimate the way the left operates with power, and how easy it would be to fight and defeat them once they are even more entrenched in power. Such a viewpoint, to me, is just another version of what Orwell once said about left-wing thought: that it’s a “kind of playing with fire by people who don’t even know that fire is hot.”
But let’s get back to some of the specifics of George Pal’s point of view. He cannot forget that “Bush appointed the reprehensible John Roberts,” and goes on to say “Taking into consideration all the other disastrous appointments made by Republican presidents I don’t consider such considerations [the notion that SCOTUS appointments by Republicans would be better than those by Democrats] as worthwhile.”
What an extraordinary statement, and one which is all too typical. GP takes into consideration all the other “disastrous” appointments made by all Republican presidents. What about the good ones? What is the ratio of the first group to the second? Because without that, the argument is meaningless or absurd.
I would imagine that GP would have included Earl Warren and David Souter in the “disastrous” camp. Perhaps there are others—oh, no doubt there are others—but the numbers pale in comparison to the conservative justices that have been appointed by Republican presidents.
So, we have had a few justices who were originally thought to be more conservative than they actually have later revealed themselves to be. Some (Warren, for example) even turned into outright—and quite influential—liberals. We’re all disappointed; I get that. And it seems (although I haven’t done an exhaustive study on this) that it doesn’t happen that way with liberal appointments all that much; they remain reliably liberal, and don’t turn conservative. But because a few Republican appointments haven’t worked out (although Roberts, by the way, certainly has voted with the conservatives on many occasions), here’s a great idea: let’s have none! Let’s have 100% liberal judges—because that’s what you’ll get if you go the GP route.
Ah, how wonderfully principled. That will get us where we want to go. And people defend themselves by saying that this is not some sort of self-indulgent, unrealistic perfectionism? I beg to differ.
To go into a bit more detail—right now the composition of SCOTUS is such that many important votes are decided 5-4, sometimes for the liberal side and sometimes for the conservative side. I haven’t done a study of how often it’s one way or the other, but for the purposes of this discussion it’s irrelevant, because my other point is that some of those justices are getting old and will probably retire soon. If just one of the liberals retires, the next president gets to choose his/her successor. If the next president is a Republican, the chance of that justice voting with the conservatives to create a conservative majority is very high (not 100%, but very high indeed), and the Court becomes a reliably conservative one. And if two liberal justices retire under a Republican president, so much the better.
However there is almost no doubt that if a conservative justice retires under a Democratic president, his/her replacement is just about 100% certain to be liberal, and the Court becomes reliably liberal. They would preside over the unleashing of the power of the left to a much greater degree. A conservative Court would at least hold the line against the tsunami of the left (and by the way, this doesn’t just affect SCOTUS, it affects all the federal courts and appointments to them). It might even actually reverse some trends in that direction, and protect our liberties to fight another day.
Now, the George Pals of the world may say they don’t care. They may say (and I know I’m putting words in his mouth, but I’m speaking of the group in general rather than him in particular) that even with a conservative court it wouldn’t matter enough to stop anything important, and that they don’t even care about slowing it down. They say it’s best (or the same) to just let the whole thing go to pieces quickly, and they usually assume that nothing but the rise of a conservative third party is good enough. They are ready to dismiss any idea of incremental change in favor of the grand gesture that makes them feel good, oh-so-superior to the rest of us compromising fools.
It’s a grandiose vision they have, in which they are the principled vanguard of a better world to come. And if not that, they’re at least the ones who saw the coming disaster clearly and weren’t fooled by the hypocritical Republicans who have disappointed them so many times before, and whom they wish to punish.