Europe vs. homegrown terrorists: it’s not easy
We’ve grown used to criticizing Europe’s intelligence and police systems for letting homegrown or home-dwelling jihadis slip through the cracks.
But it’s not easy to deal with this problem, not at all, while attempting to keep the countries themselves from becoming police states and at the same time preserving relative freedom of movement between European countries. The US faces its own version of the same problem, although in the US it’s been somewhat easier so far because we are further away from the Middle East and don’t have as large and constant an influx as Europe does, nor is the Muslim proportion of the our own population as large.
Here’s an article by Michael Hastings Fellow Mitch Prothero on the subject of Europe’s efforts to get this under control:
Since 2010, the Belgian and French authorities have been faced with a jihadist problem both more entrenched at home and more deeply interconnected to the international scene than had been previously understood. After last November’s attack on Paris, in which 130 people were killed, the full extent of the problem ”” not just for Belgium and France, but for the European Union ”” become tragically clear: An international network has exploited inherent security weaknesses of the EU’s open borders and brought French-speaking militants from Europe into the forefront of international terrorism. Between 2011 and the end of 2015, an estimated 12,000 people from 81 countries joined ISIS in Syria and Iraq, including 1,700 French and almost 500 Belgian residents, according to a comprehensive study of foreign fighters by the Soufan Group. The French S list ”” a database of suspected extremists and security threats ”” has grown to nearly 10,000 people, and those are only the people who have been identified.
ISIS militants threaten Europe with a wave of violence not seen since the heyday of 1970s political terrorism, and it appears to have the potential to be far more deadly…
…European counterterrorism officials seem overwhelmed by the thousands of names of suspects, stymied by a lack of integration across the EU, and caught on the hoof by perpetrators who often appear to lack any prior extremist links. And in the towns and cities where new jihadists are being recruited and cultivated most fervently, authorities lack the kind of surveillance techniques deployed by their American counterparts.
Please read the whole thing. There’s a lot of interesting stuff there.
Not to mention that there are social and some legal sanctions against speaking of….you know.
Nuts.
Anyway, when the covering up…you know…by the media, the government, and the chattering classes in general both in terms of incidents and presumed motivations is seen for what it is, the population is justified in thinking, “It’s worse than we know…. And we know a lot.”
The gravest threat is not violent terrorist attacks. The real problem is a mindset which refuses to face the inherent nature of that which threatens them. If tomorrow, all terrorist attacks permanently ceased, Western Europe would still be doomed. Both birth rate demographics and hijrah or migratory jihad ensure that outcome. Societies that refuse to protect their women and children have no future. The only question is how long the imposition of submission will take. Some claim to know the answer; “2030: that’s when we take over!” a popular t-shirt slogan worn by many Muslim youths…
http://goodnewspirit.com/goodnews.htm
Since prophecies are becoming more feasible to me in their veracity or accuracy, I was reading about some of the old ones.
According to Jesus, The Book of Daniel holds the key to events surrounding the last days. Once the initial phases of Daniel’s predicted “4th kingdom of Persia” begin to unfold, a sequence will be launched that will take the world quick step by quick step through the collation of his prophecies straight to the Armageddon John described in the Book of Revelation.
That sequence seems to have been launched with the Persian Gulf War. This small, but immeasurably important fight between east and west, positioned at the Euphrates River was in the right place and it followed in an uncanny way the prophetic template issued by Daniel. A western army “crossed the earth without touching the ground” and it crushed the Ram of the East at the Euphrates.
But Daniel wrote that this war will have two parts and that the greater of these would be the second.
That means a second Gulf War — a war greater than the last, led by a second middle eastern firebrand in the same neighborhood of the Euphrates — and though far more devastating, fated, said Daniel, to a similar end. In light of everything else that has happened in the world during the fateful 20th Century, if this second Gulf War does indeed occur, the Christian world will be on firm notice that the Bible’s ultimate moment of prophecy has truly arrived.
Editors Note: The second Gulf War (the war pitting the west against the second horn of the eastern ram in Daniel’s prophecy) has now begun. As far as the world is concerned, it began on March 19, 2003 at 4 A.M. Baghdad time. The administration of the U.S. government sees an earlier date: September 11, 2001, with the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq two fronts in a wider Middle-Eastern war. Either way, this conflict has ushered in cataclysmic changes in world history changes now obvious to everyone.
No wonder the FBi and Leftist SPLC are worried about right wing rebels and guerilla movements.
There are enclaves and communities of Americans that are way past Ymar’s light hearted talk of CW 2. They’re all the way into World Ending Apocalypse, complete with zombies (resurrection of the dead, a Jewish thing).
The Christian resurrection is more about the power of the spirit to live eternally, but only because you don’t need a mortal body with flaws like genetics. One of the complaints against Jesus being Moses’ promised Messiah, is that the dead walking phenomenon wasn’t seen, so Jesus could not have been the messiah promised by Moses.
Well, I’m not saying that kind of thinking is bad, but it is a good reference point for people here who think I’m the extreme one. No, I’m actually pretty moderate when it comes to all the factions in the US. Compared to whom? Compared to Nation of Islam assassins in BLM, compared to Leftists who love Islamic rapists and child molestors, compared to the other crazies in this nation that were once recognized by people as “sane”. Well, if that’s sanity, no wonder I threw away the desire to be accepted as normal and sane by humans in 2007.
“We’ve grown used to criticizing Europe’s intelligence and police systems for letting homegrown or home-dwelling jihadis slip through the cracks.”
____________
Perhaps you and some others have grown used to such criticism.
Then there are others who criticize Europe’s ignorant border policies. When I travelled there in the 70’s and 80’s, I appreciated their border controls. As well as filling my passport with rubber stamps. Those days are long gone. My recent experience in border crossings there have been tantamount to entering and exiting my shower.
Further, there are those who criticize Europe’s handling of immigrants. They do not fully embrace them. Immigrants are not provided equal status and job prospects vis a vis their native citizens.
France, for instance, defines Liberty differently from the United States.
Many of us realize that Europe’s intelligence is flawed, just as the U.S.’s is.
It is the culture within Europe that is a more significant issue. Germany’s notion that allowing unfettered access to their country by middle Eastern refugees? Stultifying.
As common Europeans and Americans are killed by jihadis just remember that those things have been deliberately set up by the left. The reason they are bringing in unvetted Muslim immigrants from Syria by the multiple thousands is to they can overwhelm any possibility of normal American security from blocking jihadis before they can kill hundreds of the Bourgeoisie Americans leftists despise so much.
As I recall, there were many dozens who claimed to have witnessed Christ’s appearance after his resurrection. Were they all deluded? Was only Thomas of the “show me” State mentality? Mass hallucination? When has a documented case of it ever happened? Would lying about witnessing it be consistent with Christian tenets?
“Cristianity, if false, is of no importance but if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.” C. S. Lewis
Here’s a fascinating recent article that theorizes about why Rome, which would seem to be a prize target for jihadis, hasn’t experienced a terrorist attack. In short, not only is domestic intelligence quite strong in Italy, but it’s also possible that the mafia is helping to keep ISIS from gaining much traction there:
https://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen/2016/08/18/why-hasnt-isis-blown-up-rome/
On a lighter note, when ISIS threatened Rome via social media last year, Italians responded with travel advice:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/20/the-islamic-state-threatens-to-come-to-rome-italians-respond-with-travel-advice/
As I recall, there were many dozens who claimed to have witnessed Christ’s appearance after his resurrection. Were they all deluded?
Richard Saunders would be the Jewish theologian or historian on that one. Although speaking from my pov, Judaism wouldn’t be Judaism any more if they recognized the New Testament as an actual production by prophets or disciples of God. The same god, that is.
The New Testament, the creation of a mortal avatar, Jesus Christ, to bring humanity back under the fold of a spirit called God/Jehovah, aka the god of Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, makes the law of Moses no longer applicable. Thus Judaism would have to give up a significant portion of the Torah or the re interpreted laws of Moses, and then it wouldn’t be Judaism any more. Not even Reformed Judaism. (Reformed Judaism sounds closer to the state religion of Christianity, in between the Orthodox Judaism which still respect the revelation of Moses as being superior or supreme)
This is an important piece of contention because the state of Israel exists, and the prophecies once mentioned that the tribe of the Jews, the tribe of Benjamine and the tribe of Judah, would only be brought back to their ancestor’s homeland if the Jews stopped being stiffnecked and started believing in Jesus as the last messiah. That there would not be any more messiahs. So some Christians see the wars of Israel as being a test or proof that the Jews are still the same. Me, I think the Jewish “tribe” has changed a lot since their stiffnecked 1st AD times. At least they aren’t calling for another King Solomon or King David… contrary to the instructions they got from God’s prophets back then.
Much as the previous religious discussion here showed, Judaism to remain Judaism, has to abrogate or nullify the testimony of the New Testament, meaning the 12 disciples of Christ. The nullification comes in the format of saying the the Romans created the myths and changed the writings from Hebrew. Thus the New Testament aren’t “legitimate” divine revelations, would be the logic. The Jews are very good at the law and the logic, which can be considered a curse, not a gift, as divine knowledge is very different from obtaining human knowledge. From some stories I heard, that is because the Jews asked of God for knowledge, and God gave it to them. That “knowledge” then ended up making the Jews arrogant, and pulled them away from their loyalty to God.
These days, I’m looking into the division and conflicts between the Southern Baptists, the Mormon Christians, and Islam. If ever there is going to be a religious war on this continent… it’s going to probably involve all 3 of them. Amish and Quakers and Jehovah Witnesse are sort of “stuck” in between, since they reject the world, including often times elections.
http://neoneocon.com/2016/08/17/on-trump-its-the-character/#comment-1564806
The link’s a FYI notice, different topic.
England has acquiesced to so much dished up by radical muslims.
Denmark has allowed SHARIA LAW to enter into their system.
Bottom line. Europe has caved to far too much. As has Scandinavia. Period.
Here’s a fascinating recent article that theorizes about why Rome, which would seem to be a prize target for jihadis, hasn’t experienced a terrorist attack. In short, not only is domestic intelligence quite strong in Italy, but it’s also possible that the mafia is helping to keep ISIS from gaining much traction there:
The Vatican is protected by the Swiss Guards, which includes professionally trained marksman and troops with assault weapons and heavier weapons. So the Pope’s “we don’t need gun line” only applies to other people.
These professional mercenary ish band, would have access to everything I know, and more on top of it. It’s highly unlikely Islam can sneak anything through that security, even if the Corsican families and the Sicilian families have surrendered to Islam. I don’t think they have though.
The Roman Catholics, as an organization, is still quite strong. They got taken to the woodshed and had to spend money for law suits, but as a culture and organization, their hierarchy still stands with religious authority over the faithful. As a result… trying to infiltrate their ranks as a Muslim is like a Christian infiltrating Syria’s IS as a Muslim…
clarityseeker Says:
August 22nd, 2016 at 9:40 pm
England has acquiesced to so much dished up by radical muslims.
Denmark has allowed SHARIA LAW to enter into their system.
Bottom line. Europe has caved to far too much. As has Scandinavia. Period.
It’s what those infidels deserve, after having decided evil was better than godliness in their country.
This is what happens when humans think they can be free with the decadence of gold, material possessions, and political power.
They put Leftists and anti Americans into power, then expect that they will continue to live a life of prosperity? If only the world was actually as fantastically a fairy tale as that.
Americans have guns because dealing with rape is the problem of local communities first and foremost, to enforce. The men enforce rules on other men. The women enforce rules on other women. That’s the basics.
When humans push responsibility on scapegoats and “the government”, it’s predictable that they will crash and burn.
Geoffrey Britain:
Many people have tackled those questions. If you’re interested in a very serious attempt to answer them, by a former evangelical Christian, please see the works of this man. He’s not the only one, but he’s very learned on the New Testament and Jesus, and he has tackled those questions in many of his books. I forget which one goes into it most thoroughly, but I think it might be this one or perhaps this one. As you might imagine, his arguments get a lot of heated discussion, pro and con, but I think there’s little question he knows his Scripture. I, by the way, am no expert on the New Testament, to say the least.
The ONLY solution is politically rejected by Barry.
Stop permitting Muslim immigration.
Muslim ‘culture’ is totally incompatible with ANY other culture.
Just ask India, Thailand, The Philippines…
I don’t care to perfect the police state so that I can ‘benefit’ from multi-culturalism.
CV Says:
August 22nd, 2016 at 9:19 pm
AS for tourist advice, this was (perhaps?) unintentionally hilarious.
“Turkey Airport Ad Warns Against Visiting Sweden Due to Rape”
Ymarsakar Says:
August 22nd, 2016 at 9:38 pm
…
These days, I’m looking into the division and conflicts between the Southern Baptists, the Mormon Christians, and Islam. If ever there is going to be a religious war on this continent… it’s going to probably involve all 3 of them.
* * *
Interesting collection – but in a three-way race, is it all against all, or will there be a coalition between some pair?
Baptists generally support Israel, and Mormons claim to be “adopted” (and, in some cases, are literal) descendants of Abraham, so if they decide to co-operate it makes a formidable force.
FWIW I am a Latter-day Saint who was raised a Southern Baptist, which makes for some interesting family holidays.
And IMHO, Islam is an almost perfect obverse of Christianity, and Mohammed the anti-Christ in a very literal sense.
“The Roman Catholics, as an organization, is still quite strong. They got taken to the woodshed and had to spend money for law suits, but as a culture and organization, their hierarchy still stands with religious authority over the faithful. As a result… trying to infiltrate their ranks as a Muslim is like a Christian infiltrating Syria’s IS as a Muslim…”
OK’. Let’s just agree we are f***ing done. Dear lady, I would argue there’s a difference but Ymarsakar sufficiently pee’d in the punchbowl to, where and what is the point?
Sez me, the United States Navy, and the Vatican Guard, and the ’32 Ford.
Also the Illuminati.
A difference between Jews and Muslims.
In my opinion, the Gospels portray Jesus as a thoroughly Jewish Messsiah who had no intention of abrogating the laws of Moses. There is no room for replacement theology in the gospels. Jesus message of God’s love, redemption, and inclusivity made the morality already inherent in Judaism appealing to all humanity. The initial solution of the early church before the destruction of Jerusalem was to preserve the tribal aspects of the Torah exclusively for Jews but not to impose them on other people since they were never intended for everyone else anyway. Once Christianity established a universal brotherhood the tribal elements of the Torah lost their appeal among Christians, even for Jews, since they were now members of a new tribe, the Christian tribe. As a result many Christian Jews forsook their original strict adherence to the Torah.
The destruction of Jerusalem and the later Jewish revolts with widespread massacres changed Christianity and Judaism into the antagonists which we see today.
It might be useful to think about the IRA and the UK.
The authorities in the UK never did completely stop the IRA. And the UK arguably had / has greater latitude in monitoring and pursuing suspected terrorists vs our limits with our Constitution, even with the Patriot Act.
A change in leadership and in the hearts and minds of many that terrorist tactics is not getting them what they want is what turned it around.
Yet, on the ground today in N Ireland, there is still very much a “divide” between Catholic and Protestant.
Politically, playing to people’s perception of grievance and victimhood is still active.
Sound familiar?
Thanks for the invite, Ymarsakar, but I posted on this subject in detail a while back (8/3/2016) and don’t really feel like going back over the whole issue.
However, to some up very briefly for those who didn’t see my earlier post, Jews didn’t accept Jesus as the Messiah because things didn’t get better, as they are supposed to, they got worse, i.e., the Jewish Wars of 67 and 135 CE. And the Romans made the point explicit with their sign (in Latin, signifying that the crucifixion was an official act of the Roman Empire) stating “Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews,” that is, “We know the Jewish messianic belief is that the messiah will restore the Davidic Kingdom, and that ain’t gonna happen, which we just proved by executing Jesus along with a bunch of other rebels.”
Oops! “Sum” , not “some.”
Stop permitting Muslim immigration.??
You should seek the root causes for this influx?
Wars………..
And IMHO, Islam is an almost perfect obverse of Christianity, and Mohammed the anti-Christ in a very literal sense.
Like I mentioned before, Mohammed is what would have happened if Jesus Christ in the Garden of Geth, decided to betray his promise and oath, curse god, take up some other lord and gain powers to dominate humans while cursing humanity. Apparently the spirit of Jesus’ mortal shell was stronger than the norm of other souls.
Mohammed didn’t suffer half of the other one, yet look at how easily the human soul crumbles and looks for power to “revenge” themselves against the world. Islam is just one big curse against humanity, which makes them enemies of humanity naturally, going on 1400 years now.
That’s how white can become black. Evil doesn’t need to destroy humanity, humanity will destroy itself and the rest will beg to be slaves, while thinking they are “free”.
Dear lady, I would argue there’s a difference but Ymarsakar sufficiently pee’d in the punchbowl to, where and what is the point?
I don’t know what point you’re getting at Steve, with the quotation and your reply to it.
Are you talking to Neo, and if so, about what?
Interesting collection — but in a three-way race, is it all against all, or will there be a coalition between some pair?-A
As you would know, there’s a religious hierarchy in one of out of the 3. Until Islam gets a Caliph, either Sunni or Shia, and until the Southern Baptists get a “Pope”, they won’t be capable of organizing at the highest level. Islam probably will get a Caliph, in Turkey or Islamic State, regardless. But the SB, being Protestants originally against the idea of a Pope with religious authority powers, are probably far more fragmented. I don’t expect fragmented organizations to be capable of making alliances, since they aren’t binding on everybody else in the same religious line. So I expect some Muslim Mosques to side with America, others… will not. After all, it was the Sunni tribesmen of Iraq that decided it was better to fight AQ, with US as allies. If Half the US are split between good and evil, so the same can be said for other areas. The government is too incompetent to deal with this, so it’s up to the main and sub stream religious organizations.
I note the 3 of them, because those are the 3 primary religions which have the most “influence” in current day America. Jimmy Carter, Southern Baptist. Southern Bible Belt. Romney, Mormon Christian. Reid Mormon Christian. There’s also some authors too, but that’s outside in the CUltural War. Islam’s influence, I don’t need to mention to this audience.
Ever hear what happened to Reid btw with that black eye? Look up the story of Sidney Rigdon in Joseph Smith’s time, amazing coincidence. This was right after Reid happened to criticize Prop 8 and his church’s standing with it.
However, to some up very briefly for those who didn’t see my earlier post, Jews didn’t accept Jesus as the Messiah because things didn’t get better, as they are supposed to, they got worse, i.e., the Jewish Wars of 67 and 135 CE.
I read your post back then, and my reply was if Jesus was the second messiah promised by Moses, then all the other prophets, religious leaders, and false messiahs that Jews followed in the rebellion against Nero and Emperor Hadrian, were the result of Jews rebelling against God. Israel’s original definition and meaning.
They could either follow the word of Jesus, in giving unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, meaning don’t try to kick em out using military force. Or they could follow the Zealots and Maccabe, Jewish false messiahs and false prophets, and use the power of “God” to kick out the Romans. Well, the Jewish people eventually figured out that this wasn’t working, and the reason is pretty simple. They didn’t have God on their side. The ones following God, were already out of Judea, Christ’s 12 disciples. They survived, for some time. The rest of the Jews involved in the rebellion, either pro Roman or Pro Zealot (wanting a King David), got annihilated by Roman punishments.
https://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/2016/08/20/glenn-beck-as-a-mormon-christian-joins-with-ed-youngs-freedom-experience/
Has a video about a temporary alliance between a Mormon and a Southern Baptist. Well, these days it may not mean as much as it did before. If this had happened back in 1860, somebody would be dead already.
Since I’m interested in freedom and insurgency in the US, having picked up some COIN knowledge from seeing Iraq and US military in action, it is beneficial to have a good grasp of all the “actors” on this stage here.
http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/acloserlook.asp
The funny thing about Europe and Westerners is that they have lacked a religious foundation for so long, that even saying they are missing it, is missing an accurate description of the religious hierarchy.
This is a description of the Southern Baptist convention, an alliance or confederacy of churches.
As such, each church is nearly sovereign, in terms of autonomy.
Richard Saunders Says at 3:22 pm
“…Jews didn’t accept Jesus as the Messiah because things didn’t get better, as they are supposed to, they got worse, i.e., the Jewish Wars of 67 and 135 CE….”
To say that the Jews didn’t accept Jesus is not 100% correct. Many did accept Jesus, and were leaders of the Christian church until the destruction of Jerusalem. After the destruction of Jerusalem the remaining Jews lost much of their influence in the church.
Form a purely ethnocentric standpoint perhaps the argument that Jesus didn’t make things better could work. Undoubtedly, if Jesus had been a warrior like the Maccabees the remaining Jews would have followed him but of course that would have been counterproductive to Jesus’ mission which was a spiritual mission to change hearts and minds. Unfortunately the Maccabees success encouraged a militarism and a penchant for violence in Israel which was not very appealing.
Ymarsakar and Dennis — this is a question I have pondered for many years — fight, or give in? There’s no question that the Jews could never have beaten the Roman Army, and the Romans certainly weren’t of the “Oh, we’ve suffered a few casualties, time to pull out” school of thought.
So that would suggest that accommodation would have been the better option. On the other hand, there were things that the Romans did that the Jews just could not tolerate: looting the Temple treasury being the prime example.
“Better to die on your feet that live on your knees?” I don’t know.
All of that being said, the Jews did what Marines are supposed to do: “Improvise, adapt, overcome!” As a result, we have rabbinic Judaism, which has long outlasted the Roman Empire. Go figure!
there’s no question that the Jews could never have beaten the Roman Army
If they had direct revelation and the holy ghost, they could have. Look at Jean De Arc.
But extremely high level military strategy requires figuring out the Roman’s weakness, which wasn’t their military at the time. To take down Rome or to declare independence from Rome, one must subvert them, a march through the institutions. Which the Christians eventually did, although not as originally intended.
The proof of whether the Jewish clan leaders chose correctly, can be seen in their military results, as an appeal to the Lord/God of Hosts.
This is a little bit different than using logic to start from a historical figure such as Jesus of Nazareth and go through the records, trying to strain out what is true or false. I prefer to work backwards from the end result when there is a lack of corroborating primary sources: reverse engineering.
So that would suggest that accommodation would have been the better option. On the other hand, there were things that the Romans did that the Jews just could not tolerate: looting the Temple treasury being the prime example.
That’s not exactly a justification for war, since the Zealots, at least, were killing pro Roman Jewish clan leaders at the same time as they were losing the rebellion in 70 AD. So if the issue was the Temple, then the Temple is empty of the word of God. There was no point protecting that kind of place, when doing so would go against the House of Israel’s plan created by their God. By elevating a place, such as the temple, to a higher place than God’s commands to the House of Israel, the Jews aren’t paying attention to the letter or spirit of the law of Moses. Jesus chased out corrupt money lenders, but he did not start a war of extermination, or hire mobs to lynch people, as the US pro slave factions did in 1830. They could have easily done so, in 10 AD. If people think they can consecrate a holy place like the temple by killing infidels and starting a holy war of annihilation, perhaps they need to look into the Aztec’s blood magic, as they would be better for them. However, the whole point of Moses was to get people away from Egyptian Bhaal and idol gods, which included human sacrifice.
The Jews should have obeyed their rightful authority. It’s pretty easy to figure out if you are following your liege lord or rebelling against him, if the liege lord’s designed subordinates are giving you the message. The source of the House of Israel’s protection is the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. It’s not Maccabe, it’s not false prophets, it’s not King David or a warrior king that can holy war the Romans to death. Whether one looks at it from the outside in or from the inside out, the outcome is the same.
The Romans, in the end, were a blip on the radar historically. Rome fell far sooner than the Jewish exile of 2000 years. For divine level entities that plan the creation of solar systems within virtual days, where their virtual days are equivalent to thousands of human years orbiting this sun, it’s not something primitive humans back then could have accepted as true without an authority telling them. But they could obey, even if they didn’t know what the future plans were. The Jewish culture of before 70 AD, was almost totally destroyed. What were left, is in the Dead Sea scrolls. The Jews that became Christians, spread out further and ended up first persecuted by the Romans since Christian=Judaism to them, and then ended up converting the Roman Emperor.
If Judaism wished for proof of the power of god to defeat the Romans, they would have needed to wait a few centuries to see what that power is really about. To win a war, without ever fighting an enemy. That is one of the highest skills mentioned in Sun Tzu’s Art of War.
All of that being said, the Jews did what Marines are supposed to do: “Improvise, adapt, overcome!” As a result, we have rabbinic Judaism, which has long outlasted the Roman Empire. Go figure!
The Marines would be of little virtue if their liege lord wasn’t the United States Constitution and its civilian authorities.
Jews fighting wars by rebelling against their own god, is about equal to the worth of a Marine fighting for the Nazis against the US. It’s really pointless in the end.
Ymarsakar – You’re way too spiritual for me. I’m as spiritual as a brick. I’m just talking in plain direct terms. There was just no way that the Jews, without unity, training, discipline, and arms could have beaten the Romans.
Maybe looting the Temple treasury wasn’t bad enough to merit a revolt, but how about Caligula’s erection of a statue of himself as a god in the Temple? Or Hadrian’s ban on circumcision and other Jewish practices? Does giving in lead to the Golden Age in Andalusia or the Holocaust? I don’t know.
BTW, I don’t see Joan of Arc as a great example of what you can accomplish with a spiritual leader, any more than Bar Kochba was. Joan was burnt at the stake and the Hundred Years War lasted another 22 years and ended because of divisions between the English and the Burgundians and a weak English king.
We Jews are a very simple, practical people. Our concept of the messiah and Christians are vastly different. It’s axiomatic to us, as is was to the Prophets, than when the messiah comes, big, easily noticed things happen: “They shall beat their swords into plowshares, their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not threaten nation, neither shall they learn of war any more. Each man shall sit under his own vine and his own fig tree, and none shall make him afraid.” Micah 4:3-4.
Our concept is that the messiah BRINGS redemption; as I understand it, your concept is that the messiah LEADS to redemption.
Not saying that one view is better, they’re just different. Mine is good for me, yours is good for you. I don’t denigrate your understanding, don’t denigrate mine.
“For let all the peoples walk each one in the name of its god, but we will walk in the name of the Eternal our God for ever and ever.” Micah 4:5.
Peace, brother!
Joan was burnt at the stake and the Hundred Years War lasted another 22 years and ended because of divisions between the English and the Burgundians and a weak English king.
You don’t mention the details such as lifting the siege of Orleans. Those are important pivots, which can’t be understood by merely glancing at the timeline. Military strategy and tactics is not obtained nor learned, by glancing at the results of battles or looking at the political timeline containing battle marks.
The equivalent would be whether Washington died or lived at Long Island. Or when the French fleet lifted the blockade of the colonial ports, or threatened the British fleet to the point where the British decided to leave or retreat, no longer having a monopoly on sea logistics.
There was just no way that the Jews, without unity, training, discipline, and arms could have beaten the Romans.
You wrote of why Jews back then didn’t accept Jesus as the promised Messiah by Moses. I’m writing in the same vein, by describing what the Jews back then believed in. And they believed under God’s power and authority, they would be capable of throwing off Roman shackles, declaring independence, or beating the barbarians off.
The pivot point is more back then, not right now. Although now is also a pivoting point.
Our concept is that the messiah BRINGS redemption; as I understand it, your concept is that the messiah LEADS to redemption.
It’s because of stories like Moses praying to God and manna falling from the heavens, feeding the people. The part of the Jewish people, the ones who got destroyed vs the Christians who followed the word of Christ to leave and not go back if they heard there was another messiah alive once more (because that messiah would be false ones), believed too much in reliance on God’s power. Similar to the Quakers, except in reverse, where war like tendencies are accelerated whereas the Quakers accelerate pacifist tendencies instead.
Human nature only gets worse when people become overly reliant on God as a crutch and on messiahs as some kind of automatic welfare dispenser. If divine level entities exist, surely they would know this about humanity by now. That is why they needed a mortal avatar, to lead humans, using a human. Otherwise humans start thinking God will provide everything, and stop working to feed themselves due to the manna falling from heaven supposedly.
The difference you highlighted is perhaps a good reason why many Jewish branches of the Diaspora, punished for their rebellion against God by being scattered to the four corners of the Earth and treated with hostility by the gentiles, decided to adopt Marxism and socialism. If they cannot wait for the kingdom of heaven, then instituting a government where people are equal and are given welfare, feels similar to the time of Moses when manna fell from the sky to feed the people of Moses, when they had left Egypt without livestock and thus no food while in the desert.
To clarify, when I mention Jean De Arc, I am not talking about spiritual auras or superstitions. I’m speaking of practical militarily assets and realities. As someone who is somewhat versed in the arts of war and the martial arts, I am interested in results, not fancy theories or spiritual high standards.
Jean De Arc was educated by the Holy Ghost in 4 years, to such an extent, even though she was illiterate, that she routinely defeated professional knights, trained from birth, in military sparring. That is not a feat you can get by being Mother Teresa.
As someone who has sparred against bigger, stronger, faster opponents, this is not something you can “win” by various human deceptions or cheats. And people back then, didn’t have the concept of “holding back” like martial sports do.
This could only be purely knowledge, wisdom, and skills gained from the Holy Ghost, the spiritual conduit to the godhead, which conferred actual military knowledge and skills unto a human, without the necessary human training period and skill pass down methods.
Even I cannot be certain that I could train a teenaged girl, for 4 years full time, and be assured she can win against male warriors trained from birth for 1-3 decades, nor that she would survive an actual siege and battlefield on the front lines, even while in plate armor. That’s using the full technology and martial wisdom of the 21st century, standing on the shoulders of every previous martial clan lineage’s fruits and labors.
Girls do not have the physical capabilities to match professional warriors in muscle combat, and nutritional accelerated growth using hormones or additives would take more than just 4 years. It would have been impossible in their day, for a woman to have gained access to the teachers and experience necessary for her to stand a chance. Even in today’s world, there’s a limit due to the number of higher level teachers. Some high level martial arts won’t teach women self defense, because they aren’t confident they can accommodate for a woman’s natural weaknesses and disadvantages, psychologically and physically.
For the House of Israel to believe God will save, and has saved their people, yet do not exert the efforts to comprehend or emulate the conduit of the Holy Ghost, that is why I think the House of Israel rebelled against God so many times, and lived to tell about it. All prophets and saints receive their inspiration and their message/orders, from the spiritual conduit to the godhead, what some may call the Holy Ghost.
Did you ever see the Star Trek:TNG episode where Pickard is marooned on an asteroid with an alien. and even though he has his universal translator. The translator works to translate words, but there’s still no communication, because the alien’s thought patterns are different from humans’.
I understand the individual words in your last paragraph, but I really don’t understand what you are saying. I wish I did, but I just don’t. (Eventually, Pickard figures out how to communicate with the alien. Maybe it’s possible.)
That’s not surprising. As for TNG, I’m more a fan of those time loop and temporal mechanics episodes.
As for comprehension, humans have a limit on that. If a person does not understand or seek for a truth, they should pray to whatever god they believe in to give them the capability to understand. Even for neurosurgeons, they have been gifted with divine insight at times when they just couldn’t figure out how to intellectually separate conjoined twins. Even later, they could not explain it, but the witnesses saw what happened.