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Has America gone Left?

The New Neo Posted on by

Commenter FredHjr wonders:

I am very concerned that [Obama’s] popularity is quite high and is sticking there despite everything. This goes to my worry that the nation has indeed turned to the Left.

I share his concern. Those of us in the center or on the Right who follow the news closely are hard pressed to understand the attitude of those who still like Obama and his policies. Has the country really turned so far to the Left? Or are most people just not paying attention to what’s happening? Or do they simply not understand the logical consequences of Obama’s actions, especially in the economic sphere?

I can only answer by looking at those I know best—my friends and relatives—and doing a bit of speculating as well. To begin with, I’ve noticed that most of the people I know are very busy. Just to take one example, a good friend of mine (let’s call her Laurie) has a stressful job at which she works about seventy hours a week. She’s divorced and lives alone, so all the cleaning, shopping, upkeep of the house—everything she needs to do—falls on her. She also has a toddler grandchild whom she loves and visits regularly. The mother of this child (Laurie’s daughter) is pregnant, works full time (as does her husband), is not feeling well, and could use all the help my friend can give.

Laurie expresses an interest in following what’s happening in the news, but she is simply too exhausted. And that exhaustion is real; I can see it. Her priorities are her job and her family and the things she must do, and when she gets the rare chance to relax the last thing she is drawn to doing is to read gloomy news headlines.

Or to read blog posts of mine, even though I’m her good friend. Laurie has made it clear that she is interested in reading them, at least in the abstract. She (unlike many of my other friends) is curious about different points of view. Also, she has told me that she’s actually somewhat conservative economically. But although I’ve expressed my deep concern about Obama especially in the economic sphere, she has told me she doesn’t have the time or energy to read the details even if I were to send them to her.

My guess is that Laurie (and/or many of my other friends, as well as other people who are not Leftists) not only lacks the time and energy to follow all of this too closely, but is almost fearful of doing so. After all, if what I say is true, it would not only challenge many of her assumptions, and make her feel bad about the vote she cast back in November (which was—albeit somewhat reluctantly—for Obama), but it would also greatly increase her already considerable and almost unbearable stress. Who would intentionally seek out such a state? Not very many people.

And so some of what’s going on is a tense avoidance, an immersion in the tasks of day-to-day life, which for most people in the present recession are plenty stressful enough. And there’s a certain amount of reinforcement for this “don’t ask, don’t tell” point of view; after all, hasn’t the US done pretty well so far? Haven’t we dodged a great many bullets, and haven’t most of our fears not come to pass? Is eternal vigilance on the part of every citizen necessary?

That may work in ordinary times. But these are no ordinary times.

I’ve used Laurie as a symbol for one sort of reaction. But there are others. Take Margaret as another example. She is much closer to what one might call a Leftist. She doesn’t hesitate to talk about politics, and if she doesn’t follow events especially closely, she certainly reads the Times and listens to NPR and watches CNN.

Margaret is very happy about what’s going on; she finds Obama refreshing, charismatic, and inspirational, a wonderful corrective to the awful Bush years. She believes that the US has done terrible things for which it must atone, that we need to take our place as only one humble nation among many, and that income redistribution and higher taxes are the way to go.

But when I talk to Margaret, the foundations of her Leftism seem very different from those of the few ideological Leftists I’ve talk to. She has not read nor does she quote any theoreticians on the Left, for example, nor can she express the principles of the Left except in terms more appropriate to social work: she believes the Left will do good in the world. Her beliefs are passionately held, and are expressed in very emotional terms, but she doesn’t see it that way. And although she makes an exception for me and remains my friend, she thinks that those who think other than she does are in general bad and selfish people.

Then there’s Catherine. She is very religious, and she would talk politics with me except that we’ve learned to avoid the subject because the discussion always becomes too heated and never leads anywhere. I learned quite some time ago that, even more than with Margaret, Catherine’s beliefs are faith-based and not subject to argument or what I would call logic. For example, war is just plain unacceptable to her. The fact that her particular religion (Catholicism) has a more nuanced view of war is not the point; she is an absolute pacifist. She also believes in a Christian ideal of self-sacrifice. Catherine most definitely puts her money where her mouth is: she owns very little, and gives away a great deal.

And then there’s Wendy, who’s probably most typical of the greatest number of my friends—and perhaps of most liberals. She’s a very well-educated teacher. She is comfortable but not rich. She lives in a blue state and most of her friends are of like mind; I just might be the only person she has regular contact with who doesn’t identify (anymore) as liberal. She reads the news more or less the way I used to: she skims the headlines in the MSM and reads some of the articles if they happen to interest her. She also watches a bit of cable news (never Fox!), maybe Jon Stewart on occasion, and her face lights up when she says how wonderful the Obama presidency has been so far.

Wendy doesn’t want to talk to me about politics, and so I don’t talk to her about them either. I keep thinking that, if I could be locked up with her in a room for about a month (no waterboarding allowed!) and we could just talk, I could change her mind on a number of very important things. Perhaps that’s just hubris on my part. But at any rate, it’s irrelevant, because she’s not interested in listening even for a few minutes, and so I’m not talking.

My sample is small and non-representative: middle-aged middle class white women. But I somehow think they stand for very many: most are not really on the Left, except for one or two—and even their Leftism is not ideologically based but rather emotionally or even spiritually driven. The others are liberals, displaying varied combinations of traits: fearful avoidance, stress, contentment, disinterest, and/or ignorance.

What would it take to change their minds? A great crisis that happens on Obama’s watch? But my guess is that it would take more than that to have them make the connection between his policies and the consequences, especially if the press doesn’t make that connection explicit for them.

It’s very sobering, but I don’t think the phenomenon represents a grounded ideological turn to the Left so much as a coming together of a group of trends that have been building for decades: MSM bias towards a more liberal and even Leftist point of view, the norming of PC thinking, historic revisionism to emphasize America’s flaws and errors, the glorification of emotion over logic as a mode of thought, and the need to be thought of as a good and kind person and the identification of those traits with liberalism. And it will take a great dose of reality, and the ability to make connections between policies and their effects, to change this drift.

Comments

Has America gone Left? — 101 Comments

  1. i can finally give a short answer with evidence…

    it has not gone left. the news and other things are not reporting, so we are not percieving, and in the absence of that, we dont like big empty places and accepting that, so we pencil in something. thats how to get someone to accept something they dont want. or peceive soemtrning that isnt real… ambiguity is a very powerful thing when your not full of merit.

    proof?

    take a look at gun and ammunition sales.

    they are estimating a lot of people have upwards of a half million rounds in their basements.

    that is not the sign of a country willing to go left.

    is it?

    I was taught that as this happens, you have to always check the papers against other clues. in russia you could die if you said something that contradicted a paper that morning…

    online.barrons.com/article/SB124104756477570807.html

    Some of these shops, like one in Athens, Ga., sell .50 caliber sniper rifles that a well-trained rifleman could use to kill someone more than one mile away. In fact, a Canadian sniper recently set a record in the sniper community when he used a McMillan TAC-50 rifle to kill an enemy combatant at 1.509 miles during a mission in Iraq. In hunting, most kills are made within 1,000 yards.

    which is why i need an EE so fast.. i haev two medical inventions in the pipeline.. if i can or could get an EE to help me finish the circuit (higher speed vs my lower speed). then i have the backing of a major research hospital and such…

    then we can vacation away from this for a while.

    how many people realized that greed cant be determined unless you know the future? how much is too much cant be told till one knows how much one needs.

    anyone here thinking that they should have worked harder, played less? if so then they were victims of ideology.

    i couldnt get the ants pretending they were grasshopppers to help me… i was a downer…

    so now i am desperate to get someone to help so i can finish this big money licensing deal and be one of the lucky few.

    anyone know that EE?

    [edited for length by neo-neocon]

  2. take a step back to see how the conditions in your writing were started 40 years ago and converge now…

  3. I believe that your reason #3 is the most accurate for most of the voters. “They simply not understand the logical consequences of Obama’s actions, especially in the economic sphere.” Until a crisis becomes so severe that it effects them personally in a major way, most people go blithely along. They do not examine what is happening, and never analyze cause and effect. The majority of voters are not equipped either emotionally, or educationally, to understand why macro or micro economic effects take place. They will however blame the guys in office the moment the roof falls in whether they be liberal or conservative. America has always just been self-absorbed.

  4. ask cathrine how this makes her feel about pacifism as the right way.

    waht can be more pacifist than a blind woman on a bus?

    nothing like a blind woman sitting there doinig nothing and then getting cold cocked..

    after all, greenpeace leftists put paint on the fur coats of elderly women, they never spray paint on a hells angels leathers, do they?

    tell her that you agree with her pacifism show her the tape then tell her you think the righ thing to do is let this man go. why? beause it was wrong for them to stand up to him and stop him.

    sigh

    EXCLUSIVE VIDEO: Heroic Actions From Passengers Of A King County Metro Bus, Coming To The Rescue Of A Blind Woman After She Was Attacked On Board

    http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcqp-052009-busattackvideo2,0,185132.story

    [edited for length by neo-neocon]

  5. I know a few women here in Germany who are similarly middle class and who have book clubs or attend literature classes. I was asked to join once and ended up saying no because I realized that I actually prefer nonfiction and don’t want to spend my time on fiction that doesn’t interest me just to fit in. I have nothing against fiction, but I want to choose on my own–not on someone else’s schedule from someone else’s list.

    Is this preference for modern fiction as opposed to history, biography, or popular science books some sort of indicator for middle left women?

  6. What would it take to change their minds?

    the most decorated officer of world war one was a convert pacifist and a consciencious objector who was drafted.

    For World War I, Alvin York of Tennessee has long been identified as the most decorated American soldier in that conflict, although some historians claim that George Lawson Keene of Texas was the most decorated.

    [audie murphy who signed up under age earned the most for wwii. 90 citations]

    As York came of age he earned a reputation as a deadly accurate shot and a hell raiser. Drinking and gambling in borderline bars known as “Blind Tigers,” York was generally considered a nuisance and someone who “would never amount to anything.” That reputation underwent a serious overhaul when York experienced a religious conversion in 1914. In that year two significant events occurred: his best friend, Everett Delk, was killed in a bar fight in Static, Kentucky; and he attended a revival conducted by H.H. Russell of the Church of Christ in Christian Union. Delk’s senseless death convinced York that he needed to change his ways or suffer a fate similar to his fallen comrade, which prompted him to attend the prayer meeting.

    A strict fundamentalist sect with a following limited to three states–Ohio, Kentucky, and Tennessee–the Church of Christ in Christian Union espoused a strict moral code which forbade drinking, dancing, movies, swimming, swearing, popular literature, and moral injunctions against violence and war. Though raised Methodist, York joined the Church of Christ in Christian Union and in the process convinced one of his best friends, Rosier Pile, to join as well. Blessed with a melodious singing voice, York became the song leader and a Sunday School teacher at the local church. Rosier Pile went on to become the church’s pastor. The church also brought York in contact with the girl who would become his wife, Gracie Williams.

    By most accounts, York’s conversion was sincere and complete. He quit drinking, gambling, and fighting. When the United States declared war on Germany on April 6, 1917, York’s new found faith would be tested. York received his draft notice from his friend, the postmaster and pastor, Rosier Pile, on June 5, 1917, just six months prior to his thirtieth birthday. Because of the Church of Christ in Christian Union’s proscriptions against war, Pile encouraged York to seek conscientious objector status. York wrote on his draft card: “Dont [sic] want to fight.” When his case came up for review it was denied at both the local and the state level because the Church of Christ in Christian Union was not recognized as a legitimate Christian sect.

    and THIS is why they are afraid of those evil rednecks

    those good ole boys will die for god, country, and will not walk away from whats right.

    [edited for length by neo-neocon]

  7. It’s been said the lack of interest in or the inability to think logically and critically is a function of poor schooling, the oprahfication of America (feeeeelings are all that count), a deliberate attempt by the left to make voters malleable.
    In my experience, most of the lib/lefties I know think their positions make them good people. Intentions matter, results not so much and if not good can always be blamed on others (“greedy something or others”)
    Some I know simply want the majority of people to live differently–if they haven’t read Brave New World, you wouldn’t know it–as if they were Betas, and only the state has the power to do that.
    What enrages me most is the smug, self-righteous, self-congratulatory attitudes.
    It appears that their positions exist to support their attitudes.

  8. I copied and saved this Belmont Club comment from way back.

    Sardonic from Belmont Club.
    ”
    I tend to think that the people of the Western world are socialist leaning for the simple reason that they percieve that socialism is better intentioned that capitalism. It seems to them that it at least purports to help the little guy and protect him from the ravages of oligarchs. In this I applaud their sentiment, while repudiating their reasoning. Socialism, as history reveals, does not provide the little guy any protection, but simply disrupts via state control the efficient workings of the economy by attempting to “fairly” redistribute the wealth. This is to ignore economics in favor of sentiment. Those who get to do the redistributing, of course, are in the seat of power, and know it well. These specially personages advocate socialism as a means to power. The other, lesser, socialists are well intentioned, but misguided. Capitalism is not an end in itself, it is the means by which Freedom (purchasing power, the right to buy and sell as one sees fit) is obtained. Both financial and political liberty are obtained via capitalism. Its other ancillary benefit is that by allowing for the accumulation of capital it advances enterprises allowing them to invest (hopefully wisely) in themselves in a way that increases efficiency. Socialism on the other hand does none of these things. Nevertheless, not being economists, and believing in the simplistic ideals of socialism, the Liberals tend to despise Capitalism as the root of all evil. This is why the MSM and Hollywood, and half the government are Left leaning. They are, in fact, good intentioned, and generally speaking good people, with the exception of those who knew very well what is going on, and are in the Socialist camp out of a cynical lust for total state power over the individual. So, I am not against the Liberals en mass, though I wish they would study Mises, Friedman, Hayek and others in order to obtain an understanding of the benefits that Capitalism has accrued to us. Is it perfect? No, of course not. Is it better than the alternative. Why, yes, indeed it is. Thus, in answer to the question, why does the MSM appear to support the Jihadists over their own nations, it is to be understood that they feel, quite strongly, that the real enemy are the Capitalists, whom they associate with the Republicans, or rather Conservatives, George Bush being the Chief Capitalist in their eyes. Since he, in their view, is the greater threat, they imagine that giving the benefit of the doubt to the “underdog” Muslim world is a position of higher integrity than supporting that which they despise most. This, of course, is their position because they do not believe that Capitalism is anything other than the mechanism by which greedy oligarchs control the world. If we wish to win the propaganda war in the West (as we should do first and foremost) then we would want to approach the problem by refuting Socialism. We need to do this with facts presented in a way that allows the public to see both sides of the argument and determine logically for themselves (without browbeating) what the more logical system is. That would be my take on matters.
    “

  9. I don’t think the US is going left, but the left is able to make fellow travelers of a sufficent number (for a while) to grab the tiller. Of Neo’s friends only Catherine is true lefist of the Catholic Worker clan. The rest are squishy with a combination of desires for more economic security (in the form of fewer choices as well) and a need to belong to a group.

    It’s their inability/unwillingness to hold a calm conversation on the issues of the day that keeps the dyke from bursting. If this were to change, most of them would be come slightly left of center independents.

    The degree to which we of the right/libertarian bent restrain ourselves is truely astounding. At a recent party, my wife was talking to a woman who was a staunch left democrat. She knew I work in energy and asked my wife if I was getting into wind power. My wife politely said not really and broke off the conversation. She knew if she calmly said the wind doesn’t really meet our needs the reaction would have been angry. The degree to which the left politicises every issue allows them to control the membership in the “club”. Any deviation from the party line results in punishment, which Neo’s friends do not desire.

  10. I think your examples represent a good snapshot of the spectrum.

    Laurie and Wendy, may be the best example of where the biggest percentage of Liberals reside. If I just read the headlines of the Washington Post; listened to the periodic reports on ABC News on the radio (during Rush or Levin), or did a quick tune-in to any TV news outlet, other than FNC, I would have a very one-sided and distorted view of the world.

    My two daughters are a bit of an amalgamation of your “stereotypes”. Both are in health care in S. California, working in government run institutions, so many of their patients are “disadvantaged”. As a result, even though they are in excellent position to observe the overwhelming drain that current social policies impose on the system, they are swayed by their emotional response to the needy individual. Emotion overrides logic.

    They respond to the needs of the moment and support feel-good agenda; but, because of ignorance, or dread, never analyze the projected consequences of today’s policies. I do not believe that they are atypical of a broad segment of the population.

    Like those you cited, they have no time to get alternative news or analysis. If anything, they skim the misleading headlines and catch a snippets of the radio/tv pap. Bookworm has reported that her husband thinks he is very well informed. He listens faithfully to NPR and reads the New York Times. He is convinced that he has a broad and accurate view of the issues, and he is very liberal.

    It is a very tough up-hill fight for Conservatives. Yesterday was an excellent example of the problem. Dick Cheney presented an outstanding case for the Bush Administration’s actions and a devastating critique of Obama’s actions that undercut them. Yet few people would see it live. By the evening the networks were distorting everything he said. People who did not actually hear his factual and logical presentation will opt for the glorified, but shallow, rhetoric of the President as presented in a multitude of sound-bites.

    The good news is that others are finding their voices. Liz Cheney has quickly emerged as an outstanding advocate who does not fear to go into the lairs of hostile media, debate them, and expose them as silly and trite. Karl Rove has become a more active spokesman, and is quite effective. Let us hope that many other fresh faces, with good minds, rise to the challenge.

    I am culling the internet for articles and columns of particular value and sending them on to liberal friends and family members. There are three possible results of my actions: a few may read and think about them; some will just delete everything I send by email; and there my be fewer former friends at my funeral. I will try for the few.

  11. I think you hit the nail squarely with the norming of PC thinking. Its given us a wolf in sheeps clothing. And the sheep are saving any harsh judgement till after the wolf eats them.

  12. Neo:

    I’ve been re-reading the letters of Richard Feynman, physicist extraordinaire. For a letter written in 1962 from Warsaw: “The real question of government (ie socialism) versus private enterprise is argued on too philosophical and abstract a basis. Theoretically planning may be good etc – but nobody has ever figured out the cause of government stupidity – and until they do and find the cure all ideal plans fall into quicksand.”

    Sound right to me, RPF…

  13. I think another element has to do with social class. Liberalism is now associated with education, and glossy liberals seem to have accrued a lot of the wealth that was once associated with stodgy republicans. Liberals are the ones with taste and aesthetic savvy, while people on the right are assumed to lack molars and drive snowmobiles and wear their hair in mullets. One quick and painless means of upward mobility is the assumption of liberal attitudes — easy enough to do when so many of these have become easy-to-remember slogans and “mantras.”
    It’s very dangerous when ideology becomes aestheticized.

  14. It is interesting to note the disparity between what people want, what politicians actually do, and what they are percieved to do.

    In no way has the US shifted left, in fact it has probably shifted more towards the right than before. This is especially true in economic policy – look at the support for the bailouts and such – horrid. Yet if asked most would pin it in Bush and the Republicans and the Dems are just being forced into that.

    People voted for Obama the centrist/conservative that was portrayed in the media. He is still giving many of the right signals. In fact he gives speeches about not being able to sustain our current spending habit and something *must* be done – it resonates loudly with the populace. That he turns around and pushes for more spending in one year than the 8 he is ranting about can still be laid on Bush’s feet (or at rather the spin can still place it there).

    Add in that the Republicans *are* actually being Democrats Light it is an easy thing to paint them as spending like drunken sailors – since that is true the implication that they are responsible for our current mess is an easy one to leave for the listener to fill in.

    And, lastly, the Republicans are doing such a poor job it makes him more competent by comparison.

    At some point things *will* stick to them, not sure when that is going to happen but it will. It may be in a few months, it may be Obama gets a second term and things unravel. When it does I expect the backlash to be severe – someone you never really trusted (say Bush) you simply dislike, someone you trusted and spoke such a good game is a betrayer. Also the longer it takes to happen the worse it is going to be, Obama in his second term unraveling is going to be a true disaster, Obama in his first is going to mostly make people feel stupid (I already see cracks in his supporters – things like “He is being more populist than what I thought, but his natural intelligence will carry through shortly) and that is also contributing to not wanting to admit what is going on.

    Still, it could easily take a second term if for nothing more than the Republicans are doing a horrid job of doing what they ought too. Had we a functioning Republican party or competent third party out there Obama would be toast right now. That is why I say when it unravels things are going to be bad – no where to go once the Dems hit the same (or lower) point than the “R”‘s

  15. Nice piece from Wretchard’s blog, Mel Williams.

    neo,

    In terms of Marxist ideology, I was more hard core and to the Left of Margaret and Catherine. In fact, I knew a lot of the Catholic Worker, pacifist types (while politely disagreeing with pacifism). I found the pacifist types some of the most intolerant, strident people imaginable. It’s very obvious that they think they are superior to everyone else by virtue of their alleged moral superiority. In truth, I find this strand of Leftists despicable. They would not lift a finger to save your life or mine, and that is a fact. Very early on in my adulthood I could see right through to the core of these people, and I did not like what I saw.

    I believe that some of the other types you mention do in fact explain a lot of where people are and why. It is as I suspected. Which is why I have become more pessimistic in recent weeks. The MSM is going to provide cover for the president and his party to the bitter end, and many people will get at least part of the “explanation” for disastrous events and trends from the MSM.

    But that does not mean I am going to take it passively. Artfldgr is right. Many of us are stocking up just in case. Let us all hope it can be avoided. But if it cannot be avoided and the harm is just too egregious, we will experience civil war. I think the Left will lose that war and lose it in overwhelming defeat.

    One of the reasons why I avoid talking about politics at parties and family gatherings: the very obvious emotionalism that is right out there, front and center, by the soft and hard Left people. You see it in their eyes and tone of voice. I pick up on it right away and I know that however circumspect I could attempt to be that my conservative views would not be welcomed with civility and open mind. The few conversations I have attempted, before I could even finish a sentence I was being set upon rather rudely. Therefore, why bother? Now, maybe that is just my experience: that I’ve been unfortunately exposed to some people who are different from some of the kind you have been around. The fact that a few of your friends have been able to have conversations with you about these things is a testament to BOTH of you. I have had no such good fortune.

    The only way that this thing will be resolved politically and not with guns would be if reality caves in their alternate reality, or if some cracks appear in the mainstream media that allow for dissent. Most likely it would require a very heavy dose of reality that hits home, and if there are some people around to help sort it out in a way that squares with rational thought.

  16. Wasn’t it David Horowitz who said, “Nothing dies harder than an idea”? Whoever it was, he was right. And the big “idea” these days is “identification.” I take my twin sister as an example. We cannot discuss politics, period. And I think she deliberately tries to annoy me by coming over with her Obama T-shirt (I swear I think it has a halo!). So I asked her the other day, “Tell me one thing this president said he was going to do that he’s done. Just one thing. That’s all I want to know.” At this she simply shakes her head rapidly and says, “I just don’t agree with you, Leslie,” as if agreement were the issue and not thinking, as if it’s perfectly reasonable to disagree with facts. This hysterical attachment and ever-growing focus on the person of the president is truly frightening. It’s religious, cultish. I look at people now, like the women who were part of that polygamous cult, and think “I wonder if they ever had a mind of their own?”

  17. I share his concern. Those of us in the center or on the Right who follow the news closely are hard pressed to understand the attitude of those who still like Obama and his policies. Has the country really turned so far to the Left?

    Well, I think that you are correct in surmising that “most people are just not paying attention to what’s happening”, as well as that they simply do “not understand the logical consequences of Obama’s actions, especially in the economic sphere?”

    I also suspect that many people are in denial. They simply do not want to face the economic realities of what is happening and is going to happen if we continue to pursue these economic policies. Perhaps that is why they hated Bush with such visceral hatred. They were frightened by 9/11 and its broader ramifications and rather than face the real danger, turned on something that was closer and easier to face. Not to mention the fact that opposing Bush didn’t get your throat slit or head cut off.

    Additionally, from my observation, I notice that many younger people identify more with Obama as ‘young’, ‘hip’ & somehow ‘cool.’ It may stem from the fact that not only has the MSM been totally in the tank for Obama and the democrats, but that entertainment i.e. SNL, John Stewart, etc. are also for him and conservatism, libertarianism, republicans etc. are always portrayed as dumb hicks who are mean, rigid & doctrinaire. In short displaying a lot of the traits the lefties themselves possess. Though there’s plenty to go around on all sides.

    This continual media drumbeat coupled with selective news coverage and let’s not forget indoctrination in schools and universities has, in my opinion, had a cumulative and corrosive effect on the younger members of society. I try to discuss politics on occasion with younger engineers that I work with, who are otherwise intelligent and well educated and many simply don’t want to hear it. They have bought into the enviro-socialist ethos. Though not all.

    Another observation is that we have had unprecedented prosperity since the end of WWII and it is coming to an end. This circles back to the denial thing. Many younger adults want their turn to ‘walk in the sun.’ We have become in many ways, a decadent society.

    Additionally, there has been no real articulation on the right to counter Obama and the left. Not only do they control the media mega-phone, they are relentless in pushing their message with the zeal of religious converts. Contrast that to the republicans who have only Cheney making counter arguments (thank God for that) and many of his fellow republicans are afraid and are asking him to tone it down. How do you get behind gutless careerists who have no core values?

    Reading this article, what strikes me are statements like,
    “Republican lawmakers and strategists said he was able to raise the intensity of the criticism yesterday because, unlike other party members, he isn’t worried about damaging any future political ambitions by taking on a popular president. “

    WTF? Were the democrats & the left worried about attacking Bush at the height of his popularity? Hell no!
    Then there was this, Republican strategist Jim Pinkerton said Cheney’s popularity “doesn’t really matter,” because he “is not running for anything.” C’mon, do these guys sound like they believe in anything other than furthering their own careers? Until there is an articulate and coherent voice against the leftist madness, the left will continue to gain.

    That’s why it is crucial for all of us to speak out whenever the opportunity presents itself. I have never been one to preach but I feel that it is part of my obligation to speak up if I really want to try to change things. We must get actively involved locally and on up.

    However, there are many who do get it. I do not let myself get depressed about the constant barrage of MSM propaganda. The tea-party movement was a spontaneous expression of that un-tapped energy. So are the sales of weapons and ammo as alluded to above. Many are simply waiting. There are also many young who do get it. However, you’d never know it from the media and unfortunately that is where too many folks still get the bulk of their information.

    Folks will wake up when the economy really crashes and if these clown keep on their present path, it will. Do not be fooled by any temporary rally, it is simply postponing a serious day of reckoning. Economics 101 tells us that you can not continue to spend more than you earn. Simple as that.

    Unfortunately only after the damage is done will those folks who danced to our leftist pied piper begin to see things as they are. They will have no choice. That’s when things will get really interesting.

    As for more evidence that all is not well in the Obam/MSM Potemkin village I’ll leave you with this from Instapundit…

    Twenty-four percent (24%) of voters nationwide favor federal bailout funds for states like California that are encountering ’serious financial problems.’ The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 59% are opposed to such bailouts.”

    So better than 2-1 against. But wait, there’s more: “Voters from outside the Golden State oppose federal loan guarantees by a 69% to 20% margin.” But there’s also this: “Voters have consistently opposed federal bailout funds for the auto industry, the banking industry and insurance companies. Looking back on the bailouts that were provided, most continue to believe they were a bad idea.”

    “So why did we get them anyway? An answer: “As on many issues, the difference in opinion between the Political Class and the rest of the nation is larger than the gap between the political parties.”

  18. I think the two biggest things that define mainstream liberalism are aesthetics and social anxiety. Lower and Middle-class liberals are very concerned that they will be portrayed by their urban counterparts as redneck backwards hicks. Upper-class liberals are anxious that their middle-class allies will turn on them for their socio-economic condition. They try to be portrayed as “compassionate”, “community-minded”, or “empathetic” to the plight of the working-man without thinking through the effect of their actions.

    The other element that many have talked about on previous threads is sex and social status. Young people have strong urges for sex, and the Republican party disapproves of pre-marital sex. Middle-aged women also have regrets about the age of sexual liberation in addition to personal anxiety about issues like abortion and gay marriage.

    The problem that I see is that for all of the reasons above, the Democrats have built a coalition of fear. This is unsustainable because sooner or later the real goal and views of the Democratic party will come into light and will alienate many of its constituents. The fact that Democratic voters have many different motivations is also very dangerous for the party. It will all come crashing down like a house of cards in the foreseeable future.

  19. I’ve been thinking about this for a long time now — seems like a long time, since about last October — and here’s the thing: How on earth can we actually think or talk of civil war, no matter how many guns and how much ammo we’re all stocking up on? Have you seen what our Armed Services can do? Did you pay attention to Iraq? Our well-trained soldiers using the world’s best equipment fought and won an urban terrorist war. So the thought of a civil war today is unimaginable.

    The only hope would be for the Armed Services to refuse to obey orders to fire on, or run raids against, fellow American citizens. That would mean a military coup, which is almost as unimaginable.

    We’re all preparing for something, but nobody seems to really know what it is we’re preparing for.

    And that’s my quandry right now: I look around my peaceful suburban neighborhood, walk down well-stocked grocery aisles, travel on unguarded roads, use my credit card and U.S. dollars, and wonder, what will it look like when everything falls apart?

    I hope I remember how beautiful it all was.

  20. Perhaps the most effective description of our political/cultural situation I’ve read. I think because neo did it with quick, effective descriptions of common character types in familiar situations. (Well beyond “interesting.”) Or, wow!, you just illustrated years and years of my experience with our wonderful society in one short blog.

    As an aside, I ache for Laurie, because she and her daughter are evidence that Betty Friedan won. In the ’60s and ’70s, when I was trying to do the man’s job of supporting a family, then amidst divorce, create a half-rational place for little boys to grow up, I decided the new, feminist world wanted everyone be to so tired working all the time that no one had energy to think, or have fun, or think about what is really happening.

    The feminists of that day, and the young housewives they wrote to, were unhappy, very unhappy. They wanted to find out “who they really were!” Too many did find out, unfortunately.

    The young, radical men were so much easier to figure out and deal with. They wanted to get girls and not have to work. But for us who then still thought of ourselves a “liberals,” it was confusing.

  21. Hmm. Encounters with left/liberal Democrats. That’s easy, pretty nearly everybody I know is a Democrat. Here are a few anecdotes that spring to mind.

    My hairdresser is a likeable, hard-working, practical lady who votes old-fashioned union Democrat but, as a small-business owner, does have some centrist economic ideas. She’s always on the go and doesn’t have time to get much news from anywhere but the half-hour news bulletins on the AM radio station that plays in her salon. (You tend to end up knowing quite a lot about a person who’s been cutting your hair for years.) Yesterday evening I had a late appointment and ended up the last customer in the salon. While snipping away, she asked me, “So, what do you think of our new president?” Knowing that she voted for him, I hesitated — never annoy a person who has scissors in your hair! — and then said cautiously, “Well, I guess I’m a little worried.” She asked why and I explained that I wasn’t sure the actions he is taking will add up to the outcomes he says he expects. She wanted me to explain so I said something about fuel costs and cap and trade and forcing the automakers to build more expensive cars and what that might do to the economy.

    She said, “Well, I don’t know. I like to be optimistic. I just like to think things will turn out well. And he’s a very intelligent man.” She went on to say that the Presidency is such a difficult job, people should expect him to make mistakes, and she likes him, and he’s so well-educated . . . and then she said again, “I just like to be optimistic. So I think he’ll do fine.”

    Last Thanksgiving our family had dinner at the home of friends whose guests included a retired teacher, a very-leftist pacifist Quaker lady of the type FredHJr mentioned. This is somebody we’ve known for years and whom I’ve always thought of as kind and well-mannered. Not any more. She absolutely set upon my young son, who’s in Navy ROTC, and demanded that he justify himself. (He did not say anything to bring this on — he was just trying to eat his pie.) He tried to be polite and suggested nicely that since it was a holiday and everyone just wanted to enjoy the evening, perhaps they could stay away from politics and talk about something else, but she would have none of it and kept after him, getting more and more insistent and angry, until the only way he could end the conversation without verbal violence was to walk away from her. It ruined the evening, at least for our family, but it never seemed to cross her mind that there was anything wrong with behaving this way. How could there be? She was right!

    Meanwhile, I recently seem to have lost a very dear old friend — a liberal/leftie Democrat who’s deeply committed to her beliefs. She doesn’t call me any more; as she explains it, it’s uncomfortable to talk to me because we don’t have as much in common as we used to. As far as I can tell, I present her with a conundrum, which goes like this: I don’t share all of her beliefs any more (though believe me, I have been very gentle and careful and circumspect about saying so.) Because good people do share her beliefs, I can’t be a good person. However, we’ve been close friends for more than 30 years, so she can’t quite convince herself that I’m not a good person and she doesn’t really want to think that, anyway. On the other hand, admitting to herself that I could think along different lines than she does and still be a good person would call into question her whole world view, which she can’t do . . . so she has just stopped calling me. Ouch.

    As I wrote down these three stories it occurred to me that in different ways, they are all about the refusal to think.

  22. My very intelligent, very liberal, very rich son refused to read something he was referred to because he didn’t wan’t to be persuaded he had been wrong in his liberal beliefs. He said, “it may all be true, I just don’t want to know that.” He is intelligent but just not smart when it comes to the future of our country. He has no children.

  23. We’ve turned left in so far as people believe that they’ll get more out of the government than they will ever put in.

    That notion will come to a screeching halt when, after successfully nationalizing health care, the Baby Boomers start retiring en mass and we can’t beg, borrow or steal enough money to pay for health care on demand, the Social Security benefits, the renewed welfare state and Government Motors outlays.

    At that point, something will give, and it won’t be pretty. As it is, we’re borrowing $0.50 for every $1.00 spent, and there are rumblings that the US Treasury’s cherished AAA rating isn’t going to last much longer.

    When Professor Urkel can no longer give enough to keep everyone happy enough, something is going to give.

    I always wanted to be a billionare. I just didn’t think I’d need it to cover the cost of a Subway…

  24. Mostly its because people have problems, and O’s the only one coming up with plausible answers. He’s not always right, and his side isn’t always right — but his team is out there pitching, and the people who put them there — how many electoral votes was that? — like it.

    You want to moderate that turn, put up some plausible people of your own. Shake the fanatics loose (and yes, I know we have them, too, and I know some of what I call moderate you call fanatic). But shake them loose, get some plausible, thoughtful people out there, and we’ll see what happens.

    Just don’t sell the American people short, again, by putting out the wild-eyed fanatics as the voice of the party. The people are brighter than you think, and they like being engaged in the discussion.

  25. Great post and comments here that move from the abstract and rhetorical to the specific and personal. Neo is almost performing what we call psychographic segmentation, which is a fancy way of saying that people do what they do for very different reasons, and not everyone will react to the same message.

    The importance of maintaining a certain conception of oneself and the role of social pressure comes through very strongly. I was interested in Mrs Whatsit’s story of her son (NROTC, you must be very proud!) that there seemed to be no one reacting to this retired Quaker schoolteacher’s behavior, which was rude and anti-social. Where was the host or hostess? Where was Mr Whatsit? If it had been my son on the receiving end, the Quaker schoolteacher would have had more return fire than she is used to.

    There is a great, dirty secret about many of these “social” liberals: it’s fun to bully people when they can’t fight back. We should not indulge them.

  26. I think the only thing that will cause Obama’s supporters to realize the folly of what they have done is if the whole system comes crashing down. There was a time, not so many months ago, when I would have tried to forestall that somehow, some way. But since then, he has inadvertently revealed much about what he plans for us. It is there, it is clear, the conservative blogosphere sees it for what it is and reports it. But it does not enter the consciousness of his supporters, for the reasons given by Neo, and other reasons. Thus, we must crash. When the utter inability of government at most levels to provide anything but paperwork becomes apparent, we will experience a new frontier, one in which the old-fashioned virtues and values that once made us great will of necessity, reappear. People who can make a decent life for themselves independent of government will be looked up to again, and will be, hopefully, emulated. Such thinking makes me an optimist.

    Alternatively, I have an ocean-going sailboat.

  27. Well, the entire world has been moving left for well over a century. America is just a lagging indicator.

    Obama is like the kid featured on bumper strips that say “Proud Parent of an MLK High Honor Student.” Most of America is smitten with itself for giving the kid the break they were told he deserves.

    This is likely to last for some time since, in ordinary circumstances, there’s a long lag between policy and the plucking of the populace. Should the Depression deepen and the teeth begin to bite, we’ll see.

    Other than that reversing the leftward course would require the sacrifice of an American city.

  28. We wonder what is the deep root of the acceptance of evil by many Christians of our time. At times they seem like an army retreating in disorder, having fallen prey to discouragement and becoming tacitly resigned to defeat. Evil seems to triumph and sing of victory. Satan’s tactic is to frighten us with his successes and make us throw in the towel before we fight. Exterior appearances seem to show that he is right. Are not large parts of society under his influence, especially in the most important sectors? Politics, economics, the mass media, and culture are to a large extent in his hands.

    — The Deceiver: Our Daily Struggle With Satan.

  29. I think you left out two groups..

    a certain group of baby boomers i know totally want to ignore the world and let it take care of itself. they have money, they think they have security, they are quite ignorant and happy given that they live well by being lucky they are here. they are left in what they know, but they want to be apolitical.

    then there is another kind. they are within 15 years of their presumed death, and if you bring it up, their attitude is, i dont give a s**t i am dying soon. and a bitter form in which they no longer even care what happens to what they used to care about.

    for them the party was a “never was party”. they did what the msm said was right, but what was supposed to be never was. they never broke out of this cycle of believing, getting screwed, and yet still believing (not the politicians but the flow).

  30. [edited for length by neo-neocon]
    .

    I’m sorry for laughing so hard, in a serious post, but that’s priceless.

    –

  31. In addition to the advantages of not having to actually think about one’s political position, I suspect many women profess liberalism because they believe they are less likely to have to defend it. Defense of one’s position is difficult, and women are less likely than men to have a taste for, or experience in argumentation. In general, men are better at disagreeing with one another while still remaining friendly. I know I get a little panicky when someone gets in my face, and other women have told me they feel the same.

    And then there are women such as the Quaker Mrs Whatsit had to share Thanksgiving with, another liberal who couldn’t argue her position without becoming offensive. Disgusting. Mrs Whatsit, please convey to your son my deep thanks for his service.

  32. Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

    What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. — Matthew 10:26

  33. Middle aged “pschotherapist in private practice” Robin of Berkeley changes from the left to the right, and shares her story in two essays at American Thinker:
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/how_to_deprogram_a_liberal_in.html

    “Being a Democrat, a liberal, a far left radical from Berkeley was a big part of my identity. So who the heck was I if I weren’t a leftist? And what in the world would I do, given that my husband, all my friends, and all my psychotherapist clients were liberal and I would be public enemy #1 if I told anyone? Converting from Islam to Judaism, yet still hanging out in front of the old mosque in Kabul, probably would have been easier.”

    From her original essay:

    “I didn’t know any better.
    […]
    Given that the media is pretty much censored, you didn’t know that a party of grown ups even existed that didn’t advocate screaming at others as the preferred mode of communication.”

  34. I think the Left will lose that war and lose it in overwhelming defeat.

    Fred, should i take that as one vote for the redneck crowd winning over the american idol crowd?

    the crucial question is how fast will the guys who play video games get whiped out as they think they know and they jump in thinking they will be great at it? hours, days, or minutes?

    The only way that this thing will be resolved politically and not with guns would be if reality caves in their alternate reality, or if some cracks appear in the mainstream media that allow for dissent.

    that wont work i am afraid. not that your analysis is bad as far as your points i think it doesnt represent the actual people. oh, they will wake up, but then they will cry for someone to ‘do something’, ‘to do anything’… i described the mechanics of a coupe, that is the point where they facilitate the actual full change between before and after.

    the reason is that they have been made helpless and have no skills outside of the abstract skills that they thought that they would only need, and they despised other things.

    they are so willing for all this or rather so moldable because they have been domesticated. throw a wild free animal out of your car (not moving), and it will scamper back scared but generally glad to be back out doing their thing.

    put a domesticated human in the real world and you get grizzly man, or chris mccandless…

    when i went to indonesia the contrast between my son and me was made in stark relief. i have never been domesticated, i was taught all kinds of useless skills if we never left the city, and all manner of cultural stuff learned by family. (we forget that in each child all the information of a group of people would be added together in one, on top of book learning. all the teachers without an agenda or politcan end, or experiementing on them pretending its social engineering).

    i was feeding the elephant, and was feeding it. hand in mouth…elephant close, owner leaves me with him goes to my son. elephant far. food on tip of hand, both stretching to barely meet. i have my hand around a trunk with the nose snooping my pocket and a very wet messy breath… watching him afraid. and he was the one that wanted to see a kimodo dragon… glad i didnt arrange a side trip rather than the zoo. turned out later on he decided to sit at home while i went outback into the jungle to take pictures… not safe, but not that dangerous if your not an idiot since its a day. though the orangatangs i didnt want to bump into.

    the fantasy crowd is going to cry for help. most are from broken families, most dont have family to call. they dont have religion to lean on. they are naked without skills to deal with a futre that is unplanned (which is why they think they know what greedy is).

    a whole bunch of other groups are already gearing up and chomping at the bit to have “fun”. they have been chomping for 40 years or more even.

    we have had an open border so wide that you could smuggle loads by the ton.

    so everyone is well stocked for the party, and if the crap hits the fan, you can be sure that other nations are not going to just sit by, eat popcorn and watch. they are going to try to influence the outcome.

    this might be why it is happening. given these games you can read it from a dozen different ways. but to let it all go bad at a planned time to change things back is a possiblity as its all falling apart and there is no going back.

    ambiguity is a powerful tool.

    more than anything, it will make people stand still in the face of death like a deer in the headlights.

  35. Where I work, there are 5 people plus the secretary’s dog which she is allowed to bring to work everyday. Two are self desribed “libertarians “and three of us are “conservatives”- though I have some libertarian leanings on some issues . Backtrack to about 15 months ago when a guy I will call “Bob”, a Vietnam veteran, would bad mouth Republicans using some of the standard bias you see in the media. We started listening to Rush, Hannity and Beck on the radio in the shop. Now the guy can’t stand the Democrats and thinks the Republicans are too moderate and need to grow a spine. He doesn’t like Rush personally- says Rush is conceited ( I tend to agree) but still listens to him in his truck at lunch. ( When ‘Bob” first came to work he just listened to rock music at break and lunch- now he listens to news talk. Apparently for years “Bob” had stopped paying attention to the news. He thought there were many Republicans in New England- lol!)
    At our job we bring guns to work for “show and tell” and everybody is cool with it. So it is not exactly a “liberal” place!

  36. Mrs Whatsit :
    You might convy this story to that Quaker woman, if you are still on speaking terms. BTW, I have some Quaker ancestry, with a street in Philadelphia named after an ancestor and another ancestor who used to own the land that Swarthmore College now stands on.

    I tried peace back in the Vietnam War days and got Conscientious Objector status. Had my draft board not granted me CO status, I was prepared to go to jail. My days as a pacifist were shattered by the GENOCIDE IN CAMBODIA while we stood on the sidelines with “clean hands.” I found myself unable to reconcile my pacifism with standing by and doing nothing about the genocide in Cambodia. There are no clean hands as long as there are vicious thugs on this planet.

    We tried peace. It didn’t work. Period.

  37. Oblio, thanks so much for saying “you must be very proud” instead of “oh” or “didn’t you try to stop him?” or “he can still change his mind, right?” Yes, we’re very proud of him indeed.

    As for the pacifist schoolteacher on the Thanksgiving rampage, there were only a few of us tin the room when the exchange began, not including the hosts or Mr Whatsit. I was there and tried unsuccessfully to help my son change the subject, but when that didn’t work, I’m sorry to say I didn’t think fast enough to come up with a reaction that wasn’t just as rude as she was. Mr Whatsit, thankfully, had no such difficulty. He walked into the room as the encounter was ending, just in time to realize what was going on. The schoolteacher turned to him, shaking her head, and said gloomily, “What a country we live in.” He beamed at her and said, “Isn’t it great?” Then he sat down at the piano and played “God Bless America.” She got the point.

  38. My first concern is to question the polls, not because they don’t support what I think they should, but because statistics can be manipulated to prove both sides of an issue. How are the polls weighted? What demographics were sampled? Who commissioned the poll? What were the actual questions asked? How were they phrased and in what order were they asked? All of these questions could have an outcome on the results.

    Secondly, keep in mind that people are hard pressed to think critically without advanced training, Sometimes there is an absence of evidence for critical evaluation. In his book “Arrogance” Bernie Goldberg points out that people rated doctors who wore white labcoats as more competent than those who wore blue labcoats. Why? Lacking any other evidence and really lacking any ability to critically determine what makes a physician is competent, we grab for any evidence at hand, even if it is superficial.

    How does this apply to Obama? He sounds very intelligent, therefore he must be. If he is, indeed, intelligent, then he knows what he’s doing and everything will work out.

    Furthermore keep in mind that liberalism in general is an ideology of feeling. How many times, have I heard Whoopi Goldberg explain her politics by saying something like “this is how I feel.” Obama has admitted that he wants to increase taxes even though lower taxes are proven to bring in more govt revenues. Why? Because he feels it is fair!

    One can’t defeat emotional arguments with intellect, they must be defeated with emotion. So, getting back to poll questions, how can an intellectualized poll give accurate results regarding feelings? One must carefully examine how the questions are posed and the order in which they’re asked.

    Finally, as mentioned and inferred in numerous posts above. Keep in mind that some people are simply so emotionally invested in their vote for Obama and their ideology (feelings, remember?) that they can not possibly bring themselves to admit that they could have been mistaken. It will take a major Obama catastrophe to make even some of them admit otherwise.

  39. I have been wondering the same thing for some time now – how is it that so many of the people who voted for this man are not aware of what is really going on?

    I think it is because people are truly busy AND because they simply don’t want to know.

    It will take a catastrophe for these people to wake up and even then, not all will.

  40. Mrs Whatsit: you are the best!! Please thank your son for his service…from one of your many blogosphere admirers.

    My daughter just gradutated from highschool in a very affluent district in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I was dismayed when our local light weight over-paid district superintendent gave a speech that sounded much like Michelle Obama’s speech to that obscure college in California. Give back, don’t join corporate America, do pro bono work, etc. I was so happy when the high school principal recognized all of the young people entering the military service. There was a standing ovation. Support for ROTC et.al. seems to diminish rapidly once the students enter college. I still think there is hope for these young minds…once they start living the adult life.

  41. Mrs Whatsit: I just hate when politics ruin family events…but it only happens in my family on my husband’s side. He is one of four sons…two very conservative and two liberal. I am one of six kids, all conservative.

    It is funny because the only time politics or political decisions/votes/positions arise, is when my ultra-liberal (and totallly uninformed) sister-in-law brings it up in a self-serving smug manner. Yuck! It is always a recitation of the Democratic talking points of the day…and that is all she has. But, good character and dignity mandates that I don’t take her out. My husband would kill me.

  42. For the Quakers: “To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven:……a time of war, and a time of peace.” From Ecclesiastes chapter 3

  43. Mrs Whatsit,
    just remember this, and when you cant think of anything good to say to them in context, and really need to.

    then ask them if they were born this rude and stupid or is this the result of a lifetime of practice and talent?

    if you deliver it the right way they first try to think which part is valid before they realize neither one is. watch the eyes.

    be wary for the hostile ones that just fire back even if you said “nice day”, they just dont care what anyone says. they make pepper spray and mace for them.

  44. I have been wondering the same thing for some time now – how is it that so many of the people who voted for this man are not aware of what is really going on?

    two possible answers. the reason they voted for them is the reason they cant see through him. so if they never paid attention in the first place, and voted, they certainly didnt gain the desire to after. if they read left before, and voted, they still read left now.

    the other group are those crouched on their haunches smacking their libs and waiting to see the dog of government go after those they hated enough that they voted for him.

    my favorite group is the group that is running out to collect all the fish that they can since the water went out to sea and made it easy a few minutes ago.

  45. I think there’s another reason Obama still looks good to so many people – “it would be worse”. This comes in two flavors. First is “Okay, maybe Obama isn’t doing as great a job as I hoped but it would be worse if we elected a Republican (or McCain or Palin).” As another commenter pointed out, this attitude is not helped by the Republican Party appearing to be slow off the mark offering their own policies.

    Second is “Okay, maybe the government isn’t doing the best job for the economy but things would be a lot worse if the government wasn’t doing anything.” I blame Bush and Paulson for starting this one. Saying that we had to pass TARP in a week or the entire US economy would fall apart has left everyone terrified that things will get much, much worse if the government doesn’t intervene often and vigorously. This is a tougher one for Republicans to combat because you have to convince people that the world will not end if the government steps back and lets events take their capitalistic course.

    As for friends, most of mine voted for Obama. I do not talk to them about his policies or those of the Democratic Congress; I do not send them links to posts that point out the flaws in what the government is doing; I generally act like I’ve never heard of Obama or the government or the economy. I figure they’re a lot more likely to see the flaws for themselves if I’m not forever saying, “I told you so, I told you so.”

    As for what I believe will trigger that type of recognition, I don’t think a crisis will do it (at least not in economic or domestic policy). A crisis means fear will kick in and people will cling to the hope that Obama and the government will fix things. What could change people’s minds about the government’s current policies is the slow realization that things aren’t going well either for oneself or for ones friends and family. There’s a letter floating around the Internet written by a Dodge dealer in Florida who claims he is being forced out of business unfairly due to government interference. His story isn’t going to convince the vast majority of people – it’s too easy to argue against his claims – but no one who knows him, his family, his employees, or his employees’ families is likely to continue to think that Obama is the cat’s pajamas.

  47. It is very simple. These people would have to admit that instead of being the smartest AND the most righteuosly caring people that exist that they are moral and intillectual twits. Most can’t do it. Fortunately or not reality is a harsh and cold mistress that will not be denied

  48. Do You Want Your OTV?
    blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/05/do-you-want-you.html

    Read the TV pool report: “Your Pool was not allowed to go over and shoot POTUS with the team shooting hoops. We protested loudly.”

    Now we know why: Obama White House officials decided to do their own media report on the visit, complete with cuts, interviews, and chyrons identifying who’s speaking.

    Also, just like a network, they have their own little logo!

    now they dont have to listen to the media, they can watch obamas pravda network.

    will we want to be recorded by our cable companies not watching him?

  49. I have tried, really tried, to fully understand the liberal viewpoint.

    There are leaders and followers in the movement. The leaders, in my view use Alinsky tactics. The followers believe them, trust them. As neo stated, it seems an emotional thing.

    I see little critical thinking involved.

    On the other hand, a more conservative viewpoint, or at least mine, is to live and let live. If liberals truly wish to be as they are, OK. There is no law against them giving the government as much of their income as they so desire – and to trust the government to do the right thing with it. Or to otherwise turn as much of their lives over to the collective as they are comfortable with. The problem, in my view, is they demand to take me with them, to do as they would have me do.

    No.

    I no longer wish to understand them. I no longer wish to be patient with them or around them

  50. Mrs Whatsit: If you ever see the Quaker lady again, you might want to call her attention to this and this.

    I have a simpler solution: tell her if she doesn’t give you her purse and car keys, you’ll kick her ass. And whether she does or not, kick her ass anyway. /kidding

    Seriously, pacifists need a good ass-kicking. They only get away with striking this moralistic pose because they’re free-riding on others, those who will do violence if necessary to protect them, while they wallow in their sanctimoniousness.

  51. mizpants Says:

    “It’s very dangerous when ideology becomes aestheticized.”

    It is, but the irony is today’s progressives are so devoid of any historical knowledge they don’t understand this (i.e., while claiming the image of the educated) and conservatives do (and seem reluctant to try to create a new aesthetic for conservatism to fight the left here… for the reasons you allude to)…

    I’ve read some calls for conservative marketing… they tend to fall flat…

  52. I have a liberal friend from high school i’ve kept in touch with at least every 2 or 3 weeks all this time. Haven’t heard from him in 2 months since i last tried to touch base.

    I’ll go ahead and call him the perfect canary in our national coal mine. Somethings up with liberals nationwide when this guy is silent.

  53. A mom Says:

    “The only hope would be for the Armed Services to refuse to obey orders to fire on, or run raids against, fellow American citizens. That would mean a military coup, which is almost as unimaginable.”

    Its against the law for them to fire on or run raids against fellow Americans. The coup would be getting them to do so.

  54. found another special group we left out

    the girl scouts…

    “The sense of hopelessness abounds in ‘Girltopia.’ The positivity, the enthusiasm and the vigor of youth is completely destroyed by data found to further the Girl Scout USA’s feminist agenda. It plants seeds of despair and hopelessness in today’s girls.” Garibay

    and at least we know where we will get the youth corps cadets, and they will make girltopia!!

    “Girltopia” poses the questions, “When women don’t earn enough, what happens to their children?” and “How could everyone help create a Girltopia?”

    When teens reach their junior and senior years in high school, they begin a Girl Scouts curriculum called “Your Voice Your World: The Power of Advocacy.”

    Many of the female role models mentioned are feminists, lesbians, existentialists, communists and Marxists. Examples include:

    Elizabeth Gurley Flynn: labor leader, activist, feminist, founding member of ACLU and chairwoman of the American Communist Party

    Rigoberta Menchu: Guatemalan activist and Nobel Peace Prize winner who joined Marxist guerrilla movement

    “There was a council of people who worked on the ‘Journeys.’ They tried to figure out who would be profiled,” she said. “It came out from lots of discussions. I think the change the world message has been part of Girl Scouts since the beginning. It’s not a radical agenda at all.”

    at the 51st Girl Scout National Council Session and Convention last year, the organization did away with its traditional flag ceremony and the playing of the National Anthem. Flags of all nations were brought in to the tune of “September” by Earth, Wind and Fire.

    how quaint…
    but now

    Garibay told WND Girl Scouts USA is not the same program most women remember.

    “Originally scouting was about citizenship, service and life skills,” she said. “The founder, Juliette Lowe, wanted girls to do their duty to God and their country. She encouraged girls to activate, not meditate. Now the Girl Scouts want to move into self-discovery and lobbyist training.”

  56. There is no question that the country has moved somewhat to the left. That is why those who too busy to do their own research and thinking default to the left.

    The question is how far has the country moved and how stuck it is. No small part of the problem is that the media, Hollywood, and education are constantly blasting out messages even farther to the left.

  57. Keep one eye peeled on them brown shirted Brownies. Fascist can be 3’9″ and ring doorbells too. Lol

  58. “When I am the weaker, I ask for my freedom, because that is your principle; but when I am the stronger, I take away your freedom, because that is my principle.” Louis Veuillot

  59. Great post, neo. I’ve only read about half of the comments so far and those have been excellent too.

    I have several friends who are liberal and voted for Obama. I tried to dissuade them before the election but my words fell on deaf ears. I even told one guy that Obama was a communist, and he laughed in my face.

    I haven’t tried to talk politics much with these friends since the election. Frankly I’m too busy looking after my own needs and preparing to batten down the hatches for the storm I know is coming. I’m trying to be an ant, and if they want to be grasshoppers, then tough shit for them. (And yes, I do harbor considerable resentment towards anyone who voted for Obama.)

    Lately the thought has occurred to me that the biggest divide in America may not be between capitalists vs. marxists, but between those of us who use the new media vs. those who rely on old media for their information. I’m increasingly finding that I have nothing to say to them. They have no idea what I’m talking about, and I get exasperated at their ignorance.

    To return to the main topic, yes, I do think the country is moving left. Time and demographics are not on our side. The Gramscians have completed their long march through the institutions. The educational system, the old media, and even some churches have been taken over and are churning out generations of people who are dumbed down and indoctrinated. We’re approaching a tipping point where a majority of people are dependent on the government in some way, whether through government jobs or entitlements. Out of wedlock births are on the increase, and 70% of single women voted for Obama. Add national health care to that, along with legalizing 12-20 million semiliterate Third Worlders, the majority of whom will vote for whoever promises them more free stuff, and it’s Game Over.

    Whatever needs to happen needs to happen soon.

  60. I’ve adopted a tactic for when a Dem/Obama supporter tries to start a political discussion. Avoiding actual political positions, I ask, “Have you ever heard that the two topics of conversation most likely to cause trouble are Religion and Politics? Do you believe it’s true?” And then, most importantly, “Have you ever wondered why?”

  61. rickl,

    I have found that the type of people I am around (not at work, because at work we are about 80% conservatives and the rest are “moderates”) are very uninformed about what is really happening in the world and in the country.

    Now, I want to crush some of neo’s acquaintances… I work 60-70 hours a week sometimes. My work is exhausting (but also interesting). I have a wife and two kids. I catch up on this stuff on the blogs and alternative media as I can catch it as I have the time. I MAKE TIME to be an informed citizen. I care about what happens to my country, but maybe that comes from being a military veteran.

    Does being a veteran or actively serving in the military make a difference? I have no scientific polling to back it up, just anecdotal experience: I find that military people, current, retired, and veterans do care more about our civic responsibilities to be informed citizens. We’re not blobs who are boobie brains before the boob tube. Believe it or not, I don’t even get most of my news from FOX. Sure, I watch FOX – maybe no more than two hours a day. Mostly, I read articles posted on news sites and on blog sites.

    Most liberals and Leftists have few connections to the military, either by service or by association. THAT is something I find interesting.

    Also, neo, I wonder how many of us are out there – the ones who have left the Left and come over to the other side.

    I would like to add one more thing: It is a MYTH that liberals/Marxists/progressives care more about human beings than do us “evil conservatives.” I have many stories I could relate from personal experience of people on the Left who have been nasty, small minded human beings towards other people. A few of them involve ME being treated shabbily, back in my Marxist days, by people running non-profits and NGO’s. These did not make a big difference in my evolution, but to say they played no role at all would be less than truthful. Mainly, it was the fact that I tested the utopian and moral claims against rigorous standards and found them dashed on the rocks of reality. Still, the human dimension that I glimpsed was initially shocking to me, and only later was I able to put it all in perspective.

    That is not to say that there are not good and caring people on the other side. Clearly they are; but I separate the ideology from the personal on some level. But Marx was clearly wrong to have declared that socialism would “create the New Moral Man.” And I have met greedy socialists. Don’t laugh. They exist.

  62. A Mom,

    The military is overwhelmingly on our side, not the side of the Usurper. The oath they took (except for the National Guard) was to the U.S. Constitution, not to an office or to a president.

    I think some of them will decide to function as praetorians for the totalitarian swine. But the vast majority would be on our side. And yes, that would be a military coup – maybe exactly what we need to stop the Marxists. Back in my Leftist days I had a very negative view of Pinochet in Chile. But now I realize he did the right thing to have Allende killed and the Communists stopped. And the military did return Chile to civilian rule. The same could happen here, although I think the transition would be much faster.

    The hard core Leftists and their military allies would lose this fight. And pretty much lose their lives into the bargain. Plus, we would make sure that certain people would not escape the country and would be arrested and tried for treason and subversion, if they were not outright shot.

    But we will make that the last card played. When all other means of redress are exhausted and the trashing of the Constitution simply too egregious to ignore. The military’s role in coming over to our side is indispensable. Only they have the means to arrest the Marxists in charge or prevent their flight from the country. They alone could secure the Football, and thereby make sure that overseas nations that would want to take advantage of things are not able to do so or act in support of the deposed government.

    We must strive to make sure every effort is not spared in the political solution. But if we have to draw weapons and fight, it will be coordinated and very lethal to the Left. Leftists who think they can neuter the military or the people are only deluding themselves. Because what’s in store for them is the end of them and their movement.

  63. NeoNeocon,
    I looked at your old links about Quakers and Pacifism. I do not understand where the belief you alluded to from certain Quakers that seems to believe that “the lion will lay with the lamb” can be brought about by human hands. Christians are called to evangelize, but it seems any honest reading of the Bibical Book of Revelation shows that ultimately evil will be put down by force by the returning Messiah and not before. There is a more extensive parrallel of this in the old Jewish book of Zechariah chapters 12 and 14, which pictures the Messiah coming to the aid of Jerusalem as it is being overrun by invading armies and the women of the city being raped. (Zec 12:10 does seem to refer to the cruxifiction, See John 19:37) With some exception, like 12:10, the picture in Zechariah is of a warrior Messiah who shows up on the scene during great trouble, not during some peaceful time brought about by the hand of man. This is in sharp contrast to the suffering Messiah of Isaiah chapter 53, which we Christians believe was the first coming of the Messiah.

  64. I come from a Baptists background. It always made a great impression on me that on days like Veterans day or Memorial day or near the 4th of July, the preacher would ask all veterans to stand. There was a sizeble number of the (mostly)men that would stand.
    The Baptists churches I have been in almost invariably have an American flag on the stage, along with the “Christian” flag.
    Unfortunately, I saw a picture in one of the missionary books my parents get that showed a Spanish congregation in the US, that is being partly supported by english speaking churches. The flag in the background was the Mexican flag.

  65. FredHjr,
    I spent about 15 years in the Texas National Gaurd, with two overseas trips to the Balkans- about 18 months total. We had two Oaths of Enlistment. One was to the Constitution of the US and the other was to the State of Texas.

  66. FredHjr:

    Yes, I’m increasingly thinking that Chile in 1973 may be the closest parallel to our present situation. A military coup is absolutely our best option right now. The other alternatives are grisly, to say the least.

    One thing I haven’t seen addressed anywhere: What kind of oath do Secret Service agents take? Do they swear to uphold the Constitution or do they swear to protect the person of the President? I’m thinking of the Roman Praetorian Guard, who assassinated Emperor Caligula when it became apparent that he was leading Rome on a path to destruction.

  67. Two things:
    From the Declaration of Independence
    “….Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed…”

    It is not time for a coup.

    2. Not to run it into the ground, my comments earlier that grew from others discussions of Quacker Pacifism, I wanted to clarify that Revelation also predicts a second resurgence of organized evil centuries after the return of the Messiah….the whole “lion laying with the Lamb” thing I am not sure where that falls relative to those events….would have to research.

  68. Mrs Whatsit, it sounds like Mr Whatsit knew just how to handle the Quaker lady. What a family you have.

    As another inhabitant of Indigo Country, I spend a lot of time around people like the Quaker lady. My point is really that a lot of people like her count on the opposition being well mannered. They are mean because they enjoy causing discomfort, especially when they feel certain that no one will talk back. This is the way social coercion works.

    “Not causing a fuss” under these conditions is actually a form of appeasement, and like geopolitical appeasement, it only serves to encourage and embolden the most ruthless aggressors. Make no mistake; the Quaker lady was engaging in social aggression.

    You don’t actually need to thrash her–as OB understandable suggests–and that would be counterproductive in any event. Awhile ago, I posted some tried and true methods for dealing with obnoxious progressives of this type when you meet them at a dinner party. I could post them again, if you like.

    Or you could take your inspiration from the way Miss Elizabeth Bennett handles Lady Catherine de Burgh at the end of Pride and Prejudice. Social aggression isn’t new, and neither are the methods for dealing with it.

  69. Oblio,

    I am interested in a re-post of those tried and true methods. I may have missed them in the previous post.

    Mr. Baker,

    I agree that rebellion should not be raised lightly. I have taken great pains to spell out the provisos that obtain under these circumstances. But we are Americans and our right is to assert our natural rights that are outlined in our founding documents. It is not treason, poison, or destructive at all to talk about rebellion and civil war.

    The kind of people we now have in power and some of the people who support them are ill-disposed towards those founding principles and documents, however sophisticated their Ivy League educations purport to give them license for changing the Constitution or laying it aside.

    They have shown a willingness to take away from private citizens anything they deem worth confiscating. I’m on solid ground leveling that accusation.

    It cannot go on forever without consequences. At some point a line can be crossed which seals their doom.

  70. My sample is younger and less white. I work with mostly woman like Sanchez who thinks like the typical liberal. She think she’s well informed because she listens to mainstream sources and doesn’t hesitate (except when I’m around perhaps) to speak her mind on a variety of issues. She’s crazy about Obama and all the typical liberal causes. The only difference is that her heritage makes her wary of certain whites who she feels has skated through much of their lives (perhaps a fair point I think).

    There’s Conspiracy girl (that’s what I’ll call her) who believes 911 was a conspiracy by the government. A typical Troofer who can’t let go of some lingering hate for this country and it’s people. It’s fruitless to talk to her since much of the time she spaces out when you try and corner her in an argument. When I and another person at work argued how inconsistent it was to support gay marriage but oppose incest marriage or polygamy her response was: “So What?” Typical of liberal/leftists I guess. Just blot out inconvenient points.

    There’s Macleod who’s is one of the only guys there but also shares strong liberal views. He’s pro-Obama and can barely be made to argue rationally about anything without a heavy dose of snide, superior commentary that cocky of guys his age exude. It got to the point where I challenged him to a fist fight when he called me ignorant after I refused to accept the premise that police were murdering black people in numbers unreported by the ‘media.’ lol

    Then there’s my superior, who I’ll call Corona, after one of her favorite ahem…beverages. She’s not fully informed about politics but does enjoy listening to different views. She’s a Democrat but not really idealogically committed to arguing point by point every issue. I think she just skims as some of Neo’s friends do.

    Nobody sees it my way of course. Except for the department boss who is beginning to sour on Obama’s economic policies. Still I’m the only Repulican in the building. Heh

  71. This is a terrific thread, and it makes me happy to know that there are many more like me out there. I’ll bet most of neo-neocons readers are former liberals who stepped outside the bubble, and then whammo . . . we found ourselves in an alternate universe, estranged from most/all of our friends and family.

    Though I’ve learned a lot since 9/11, namely don’t despair when liberals seem so totally uninformed and stupid, I still continue to argue for common sense. Today, for example, I argued that it is silly to pay the debt of people who don’t know how to use a credit card. My family pointed out that there are so many people who “are taken advantage of” who need to be “helped.” I pointed out that my family’s tax money would be used to “line the pockets of the credit card companies.” A light dawned!

    A light dawned for me too. My family was using marxist terminology to describe their views (though they didn’t recognize it). They were thinking in terms of “Wall Street” and the “downtrodden.” I didn’t try to change their way of thinking, because I know this is impossible. But I realized that one of the roots of our current crisis is that my folks, and probably millions of others, don’t understand basic economics at all. They don’t understand how government distorts the market.

    To summarize my thoughts: We need to do a major effort to get Americans to understand basic economics. For example, how rent control leads to fewer apartments, how raising taxes leads to higher costs, etc. etc. etc.

    Right now, the people who support Obama are very ignorant and are willing to follow his demagogic views because they don’t know any better.

    Neo, thanks for providing this forum so that we can share anecdotes and thoughts. We live in very dangerous times, and many of us are intellectually isolated. It’s good to know that we have like-minded colleagues who read neo-neocon.

  72. Other than that reversing the leftward course would require the sacrifice of an American city.

    You would think yes … but I believe you underestimate their powers of rationalization, friend Vanderleun.

    No, they would probably just blame it on Bush and the US — as in the US should’ve been nicer and not made the terrorists so angry, serves the US right because the US took the land from the Native-Americans, the US broke ‘international law’ in various ways, the US dropped it on Japan, fire-bombed Dresden, Bush called them the “Evil Axis,” etc.

    Obama would be seen as a noble figure elected too late to correct the great harm caused by the evil Bush/Cheney duo, Obama inherited a “mess,” after all. If only The One had come along sooner …

    It would be the cherished Chickens Come Home To Roost theme. They would wallow in it.

    Would they care about the innocents that would perish in that hypothetical “American city?” No more than they care a hoot in hell about the 3,000 that died on 9/11, despite pious protestations to the contrary.

  73. FredH, I’m with ya, you are a little bit off on the oath however, from the one I carry in my wallet, there is a custom that prior enlisted Officers never read the oath from paper, but recite it from memory, hence why I carry it always and have administered it more times than I can remember, although its been a while:
    “I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”

    That being said, I do not believe the military would act against the American people.

    On topic, I don’t think a majority of the country has turned left, it seems that way but I don’t believe it. First off I don’t trust the polls, also the percentage of people who are just too busy or catch snippets from the MSM don’t really understand what is happening, or care at this point, however, soon the mistakes they are making will touch more and more people and wake them up, I still believe the hard left is around 20% of the population and that includes the nutters, mentally ill and 9/11 troofers, the other 30% are misinformed, too busy or don’t care…until it touches them.
    Case in point the recent California tax vote, a majority of people agree that higher taxes are good, UNTIL THEY are actually expected to pay them, then the situation changes because it personally effects them, more and more people are going to be effected by the decisions being made and turn against these guys, closing auto dealerships etc. will have an effect, that is my hope anyway, the evidence will be impossible to ignore, esp when the inflation starts. The tea parties were encouraging and I believe it scared the crap out of the administration and led to O’s comments on the “spending is unsustainable” in Arizona. Why else would he say it? Almost a bait and switch or more evidence of a mental defect; Narcissism or whatever. More and more people will have to wake up and pay attention, hopefully before it is too late, its fun to dream.
    http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/207897/

  74. – Oblio Says:
    January 25th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
    Dinner party rules for conservatives:
    There are some simple techniques for dealing with dinner party blowhards and social bush-bashers/obamatrons.
    1. When they start ranting, just say “Now, now” in a genial tone of voice with a smile on your face. It is amazingly effective, and lots of people will want to talk to you afterward.
    2. When someone offers a bumper-sticker sentiment as a deep thought on some issue of the day, ask “Do you study that closely?” in a mild manner. Most often, there will be stunned silence followed by a hasty change of topic.
    3. If someone wants to rant on after #2, just keep asking questions about where they get their information, their views of the implications of their position, how they do the cost/benefit analysis, their response to some authority’s (particularly some liberal authority’s) criticism of their position, etc. Force them to clarify their points. In most cases they start embarrassing themselves within about 45 seconds. Very few come back for this treatment twice.
    4. Restate their positions without euphemism and in the clearest possible terms: remember Orwell on how people would react to Oxbridge types defending Stalin’s purges if the apologists had to say, “I support killing people when you can get good results by doing so.” It is very gratifying to see how uncomfortable social liberals get when you strip away the euphemisms. Someone will change the topic within 30 seconds.
    5. Avoid stating your own position or contradicting the blowhard. If asked whether you agree with the blowhard’s point, you can say no and give two or three reasons why not, then stop. You are not obligated to make a case FOR the opposite, and you shouldn’t bother to ask the blowhard whether he agrees with you. That’s OK, because reasonable people can disagree. If he really pushes for your opinion, you can point out that you weren’t the one who gave the strong opinions in the first place, and you only asked questions.
    6. If really pressed, I quote my mother, who old me “There are three things you shouldn’t discuss in company: politics, sex, and religion.” Not too surprisingly the most dangerous and explosive topics manage to combine all three.
    The trick in all cases is to stay calm and not to take anything that is said personally, no matter how stupid or offensive it might be. The key is to make social embarrassment work against the blowhard. If male, the blowhard is usually making a dominance display. In that case, refusing to be bullied without losing your temper is normally enough to make him look pretty small. If female in mixed company, the blowhard is probably signaling “in-group” membership: the underlying message might be “I want to belong.” Proceed accordingly.
    I have lived for most of the last 30 years in deepest Blue State, academic, ecclesiastical, NGO, and European circles, and I can testify that these tactics are easy, painless, and highly effective.

  75. Two points. If we distill most of the comments here, I’d say the root of liberal irrationality is moral vanity. My experience is any time you can get a liberal to admit to the facts of the destructiveness of their ideology, they respond with, “the intentions are good.” It isn’t about the fruits – it’s about the heart.

    And I don’t blame Republicans for being unable to get their message out. I blame Big Media. There are old guard articulate conservatives, e.g., Newt Gingrich and Dick Cheney. There are next generation articulate conservatives – congressmen and governors I hear on talk radio. But Big Media has become the propaganda arm of the Democrat party and will only use a distortion of conservative voices to try to damage conservatism. The only solution I can think of is what Dick Cheney is now trying to do and what W should have been doing for his term. Go around Big Media directly to the people.

  76. Oh – I thought of a third. I’m not at all convinced there will be a civil war or military coup. I think what we’re experiencing is the frog in the pot of water. Start at room temperature and slowly increase the heat – the frog never new what happened to him. As Mark Steyn says, all elections will be shifted to the left as the issues become what services the next administration will provide. Conservative talk of liberty and self-reliance and traditional values will be viewed as passe to the point of being ridiculous. I’d say the Left has already made great strides on that latter.

  77. Indiana Simple Rule applys:

    You will not change until you feel pain.

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  79. Technically pacifists are parasites of a different stripe. They are not willing to defend the commons, they ARE willing to partake of the fruits of the defense of the commons, and willing to vote or protest to move more stuff into the commons for them to partake of. they have discovered that in large societies pools of “wealth” accumulate and create puddles of power. the reason i quoted it is that wealth can also be a fringe group. that is with enough people and a fluid information system the rare and outside can pool and become a force. money technically is work converted into a storage medium and when it pools in capital it can become a force, but is too weak otherwise.

    even worse, far from pacifism making the world peaceful, pacifists if over represented can draw to it predators (which are different than defenders which is also different than the good shepard who owned and would eventually eat the sheep, not just sheer it. the point only works with god (unless god sees us as a bit o honey bar))

    a pacifist is a bull elk who hides in the middle of the herd and still expects to be laid as much as the ones on the outside defending it. they become bitter because they want what they want for who they are not what they do or contribute. they want IS to be enough. and IS is never enough (except for maybe budist monks).

  81. Sensing more strongly every day that an unprecedented period of uncertainty, violence and chaos is rushing quickly toward us here in the U.S, and that our days as a peaceful, prosperous, free and democratic “Superpower” may be dwindling down toward zero, I happened to pick up the February 2009, 4th edition of a survivalist novel, titled “Patriots: A Novel of Survival in the Coming Collapse,” at Borders yesterday, “fiction” which I am afraid is quickly moving over into the non-fiction section with every passing minute.

    Looking over the many, mostly favorable reviews on Amazon, there have been some criticisms of “Patriots” as being more of a very detailed manual of myriad survival techniques, and a very specific order list for survival supplies, than it is a full-fledged novel.

    However, Chapter 1, titled “Crunch,” which lays out the details of the government-induced financial collapse which leads to a total breakdown of society and civil war in the U.S. is, in it’s early parts, pretty much a word for word reading of the pages we have seen to date of Obama & Co’s economic playbook; collapse of the stock market, bank runs, large scale layoffs and unemployment, massive “unsustainable” government spending, deficits and debt, the Federal Reserve’s inflation of the currency and the resulting hyperinflation–which will be hitting us “for real” in the upcoming months, increasing lack of confidence in the dollar both internationally and domestically, loss of public confidence in all financial transactions, then, a breakdown of our intricate power, transportation and manufacturing systems, riots when people discover that their money is gone or worthless, and that the basic needs of life are, in any case, priced out of their reach, major cities burning, and a descent into general violence and anarchy.

    Up until Obama this could be called fantasy, with Obama in office, this is increasingly looking like prophecy.

  82. What fine things so many people wrote. Oblio, oh bother, JThoits, Artfldgr, Occam’s Beard, Neo, and others, thanks so very much. I join Promethea in feeling so glad that that there are more like me and Mr Whatsit out there and that this blog is here so we can find each other. (Promethea, here is my olive branch on the who/whom issue!) I will pass on all your messages to my son and to the Quaker lady, should we ever see her again –though we’re doing our best not to. If it comes to it, I am sorely tempted to try out Occam’s Beard’s advice. 😉

    Gringo, I am going to remember this line of yours: “There are no clean hands as long as there are vicious thugs on this planet.” I’ve tried to express the same idea to my pacifist friends before, but I’ve never been able to put it quite so eloquently. Thanks.

    Oblio, thanks for re-posting your great rules! They’re going to end up printed out and posted, along with davidT’s three questions, on the Whatsit refrigerator. We need them at pretty much every social occasion we attend . . .

  83. I have heard Glenn Beck say that if we had a revolution right now, it would look more like the French Revolution than the American Revolution- because too many of our people are ignorant of the founding documents and have been taught class warfare propaganda.
    Perhaps a step by step laid out version of the history of Fannia Mae and Freddie Mac (President so-and so apointed this CEO on this date…) would wake some up (maybe). I bet there are New York Times articles, the liberal paper of record, from way back that could be quoted to show the evolution of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Articles that seemed innocuous at the time.

  84. Several of the comments express concerns about young Americans showing little interest in politics, political ideologies, history, and conservatism. Or, at least as it does not relate to the MSM and liberal trendiness. This may be true of many young Americans – but not all.

    The wife and I have enjoyed reading this blog for some time: the ideas/concerns expressed spark many useful conversations in our home.

    So to those of you worried about us youngens, your time is not wasted, many of us are paying attention. Your efforts are appreciated, thank you.

  85. I have taken the time to read all of the comments now, and I think this is one of the best threads ever.

    jon baker re Beck: Yes, I have heard him say that too. We Americans were very fortunate back in the 18th century. Most revolutions since then did not work out nearly as well as ours did. Believe me, this is not something I’m looking forward to. As a lifelong civilian, I’ll be more than happy to die peacefully of old age.

    You also quoted the Declaration of Independence earlier. I would say that the conversion of the United States to a centrally planned quasi-Marxist tyranny is definitely not a “light and transient cause”. It’s about as serious as it can get.

    Also, those of us who have been buying guns and ammo are doing it for a variety of reasons. Probably the biggest reason driving all this stockpiling is the belief that Obama and the Democrats are planning future restrictions on guns and/or taxes on ammo. This is not paranoia; it’s firmly rooted in their own statements and track records. We’re hoping to be grandfathered in to any new laws/restrictions.

    Another reason is self-defense and protection of our property in the event of an economic collapse. If the worst happens, there will be an awful lot of grasshoppers roaming around trying to steal the supplies the ants have stored.

    A couple months ago I bought a gun safe to keep my weapons and ammo. It was the responsible thing to do. I don’t want petty criminals breaking in and stealing them while I’m away at work. But then, after my guns were safely locked away, the thought hit me: What if somebody breaks in and steals my food? What do I do then? I can’t eat bullets.

    So I decided to have my first-floor windows replaced. I’m getting narrow casement windows that should be difficult if not impossible for the average person to climb through. They will also be made of heavy duty impact-resistant glass. That glass was developed for hurricane-prone coastal areas, and I insisted on it for my new windows. I live in an average suburban house, and while I know I can’t turn it into an impregnable fortress, at least I can try to make it as difficult as possible for the average burglar. My guns are the last line of defense, not the first.

  86. You want to moderate that turn, put up some plausible people of your own.

    Translation: plausible == liberal

    The people are brighter than you think …

    They haven’t demonstrated that brightness lately.

  87. Know what our problem is? We deny ourselves the weapon of losing our temper. We equate it with a lack of self-discipline maybe. Yet tantrums have their purpose.

    Please add my thanks and respect to those already offered here for your ROTC son, Mrs Whatsit.

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  89. I agree with armchair man. Get loud. Get rude. Get angry. Scream in their faces. If male, use your height and size to intimidate.

    They don’t think. Their political attitudes are formed purely by emotion. So you can’t reason them out of anything. You have to use Pavlovian conditioning. If every time they repeat idiotic liberal boilerplate someone winds up screaming in their faces, they’ll stop.

    (This is, by the way, the most effective technique with women. I hate to say it, but a great many women are upset by any kind of disagreement or conflict. Think of how many women stay with abusers because they don’t want to “make a fuss.” So make a fuss. Many of them will “go along” just to defuse the fuss. And if someone repeats something enough times they may start to believe it. Cruel? Underhanded? Manipulative? Of course it is. See, liberals, we’re learning.)

  90. ad,

    I’m a retired EE and may be able to help. My email addy is on the side bar at “Power and Control”. Google it.

    Neo,

    If AD misses this please have him/her contact me.

    Simon

  92. A mom,

    Yes, I am aware of the Oath Keepers’ site. A recent topic/thread there deals with the new way that Obonga and the Marxists are going to detain people simply because they are considered “dangerous.”

    I keep hoping that someone on the inside of the elites who are now taking over the country become disgruntled or angry and blow the whistle on what Marxists have planned for us. There have to be literally at least hundreds of these people privy to Soros’ plans for us (Obonga is just the puppet). Surely there will have to be at least one brave soul who either through disillusionment or having seen the light decides to spill it all. Because once that happens, it is most definitely “game over” for the internationalist elites and Marxists, here and abroad.

  93. FredHjr,
    That site has an article that claims there is movement afoot to treat anyone on the “no fly” list as a felon when it comes to purchasing or possesing guns. No due process required. Just think how much of the right is considered potential “terrorist in the Homeland Security memo not too long ago. Its a slow boil all right – but it is accelerating.
    The Republicans created a monster with Homeland Security, and I am afraid it is going to be turned against us.

  94. jon baker,

    So, how are the cowards/totalitarian swine at HS going to determine who gets on the “no fly” list? The HS memo that went out a couple of weeks before the Tea Parties was chilling. Since I am in favor of restoring some semblance (it does not have to be exact) of faithfulness to the U.S. Constitution, does that make me a potential terrorist? That I believe in the 2nd Amendment (and the First Amendment)?

    Are these apparatckiks going to put tens of thousands of Americans on that list and even consider us for being rounded up and put in detention? Well, make that hundreds of thousands (at least).

    It all fits with what Billy Ayers and his Weather Underground Communists said about how they would build detention centers for “re education” of up to 25 million Americans – with a bullet in the head for those who flunk the course! How come Billy Ayers and his buddy Mark Rudd and wife Bernardine are not in prison for what they did? They are the real terrorists – they are no different from the Bader Meinhof Gang or the Red Brigades.

    Scum, the lot of ’em!

  97. “So, how are the cowards/totalitarian swine at HS going to determine who gets on the “no fly” list?”

    Thats a good question. It certainly does not have to take a conviction to get on that list now. A Beaucratic decision. no due process.

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