And I don’t understand…
…this reaction at all:
Obama just won a second term.
I disagree—although of course, Obama may win anyway. But that was always true.
I think the SCOTUS decision today actually reduces Obama’s chances of winning, if it affects them at all. I cannot imagine that people who dislike Obamacare will now shrug their shoulders and say, “Oh, the Supreme Court said the mandate’s a tax, so it must be okay.”
The mandate’s unconstitutionality was hardly the reason that most people were against the bill. Although it certainly was (and remains) a factor, few people are that legalistic in their thinking. They were (and should remain) against Obamacare for a host of reasons, including (but not limited to) government intrusion, its effect on the economy, and how it was passed. Today’s ruling should not change that, it should only intensify the desire to repeal it and replace it with something better.
Of course, people are strange. But as I said in this post:
This should fire up the troops on the right as almost nothing else could. If the American public is foolish enough to re-elect Obama and the Democrats, I suppose it deserves what it gets.
It’s understandable to be down about today’s ruling. And no doubt the left will crow over its victory. No matter. This is hardly the time to give up; it should be the time to say we’ve not yet begun to fight.
[NOTE: And yes, I understand that we may face a tipping point, and I understand what the danger is to liberty. My favorite literary passage that expresses this is from Dostoevsky’s The Brothers Karamazov, the section known as “The Grand Inquisitor”:
Oh, never, never can [people] feed themselves without us [the Inquisitors and controllers]! No science will give them bread so long as they remain free. In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet, and say to us, “Make us your slaves, but feed us.” They will understand themselves, at last, that freedom and bread enough for all are inconceivable together, for never, never will they be able to share between them! They will be convinced, too, that they can never be free, for they are weak, vicious, worthless, and rebellious. Thou didst promise them the bread of Heaven, but, I repeat again, can it compare with earthly bread in the eyes of the weak, ever sinful and ignoble race of man? ]
This decision should energize the people who oppose big government this fall. If the HCR was struck down, there may have been some apathy because the Supreme Court limited the Executive and Legislative branches power. I don’t think the campaigns will spend any less to get their messages out. I hope the citizens will get past the headlines/sound bites/bumper stickers and find out the true intentions of the candidates.
Agreed, this is not a good thing for Obama’s reelection efforts. It is, however, a good thing for his agenda.
ah..,.
but i am laughing and laughing…
“My clients dont know how the future works”
well.. ya want to laugh too at the irony of working cross purposes?
ok… most of all the changes that fundamentally make whats happening ok, came from the womens fronts… (once ya became active in politics, you became responsible for changing outcomes and the good or bad of those outcomes. sorry)
race and that were secondary in power and ability to mold the electorate (or rather, prevent them being molded by parents and instead be molded by leftist teachers in schools, of which most are)
so… here is the funny funny thing..
women wanted “the same things as men”, but they didnt want to earn them the same way. or assumed they couldn’t.
so, they created all this justification as to why the rule of law was no good, and that unequal application of the law was needed for equal outcomes (i can show you the quotes, papers, books, and so on – you want it short, then read those things too)
since women weer the biggest welfare getters, they increased welfare till one can imagine women marred to the state. one big baby making cattle farm that pays for itself (and provides debased level of free entertainment for the elite men)
they also went to dominate schools. just go to the medical chools or law schools and look at the imagry, the programs, the supreme court judgments trying to stop the affirmative action, and all ignored.
so… lets fast foward this joke a bit.
women are, according to all this, getting the best jobs, with the best degrees… the white males are as rare as hens teeth or white elephants… ie. the few you see tend to be in the back, cut up, blurry. or are old administrators passing their knowlege to the women… ok… same with law…
so whats the demographic outcome?
easy… under obama care, women are not going to earn the free market salaries the men did, they are going to be forced to work!!!!!!!!!
ie… they didnt like a happy gulag, so they made a REAL ONE…
the women dominate medical, and they are going to dominate being the ones forced to work for low pay…
as women are favored volk and move more into this… the educated and barren women working will fund the uneducated and hyperfertile ones.
the men, will just sit around as in Russia and drink… waiting to die… but on HER dime.
the mancession is making sure that men are bowing out of the economy as women are taking it over, and the leftists they support are turning women into slaves to pay for the rest. as the men who leave aren’t going to work to pay much of anything.
Thats called working Cross Purposes
a purpose usually unintentionally contrary to another purpose of oneself or of someone or something else –usually used in plural
in an effort to sock it to the men under the idea they would not bow out and not lose.
they socked it to themselves, destroyed their families and are about to enter servitude of health care which they just took huge loans out provided with racial and gender favoritism, and they cant pay them.
if there really is a devil, he is laughing so hard at his subjects entertainment value.
by the way…
its also called natural justice… 🙂
What’s freedom when you can have three hots and a cot? (as the jailbirds say). Short form of The Grand Inquisitor (which is right on the money, honey).
Cry, the Beloved Country.
I note that people in Canada and the UK gripe about their government medicine, but it’s like the weather; it just rolls on, largely unopposed, and essentially unstoppable. Unless we get it repealed in the legislature ASAP, the bureaucracy will already be entrenched: and once that’s done, in practical terms there’s no going back.
Can anyone think of a gubmit bureaucracy that’s ever been shut down?
I was sitting in a doctors office with my daughter today listening to the very diverse staff there talking openly about how much they dislike Obamacare and are upset that it was upheld. One young nurse loudly said that she voted for Obama but was now determined to vote him out of office. I think that the ruling by SCOTUS today will not help Obama at all.
I am upset by the events of today but am heartened to know that people are becoming more resolute in kicking Obama out.
Marx’s ideology was designed to favor Marx.
Marx was a lay about who didnt want to provide, was happy just living subsistence, and letting his wife do all the work.
so he created a way, to move women from the home, into industry, so that he wont have to work!!!
now, by calling that liberation… the women flocked to it, and pushed the men out.
and now, the lazy men, who dont want to provide, and raise their kids, and all that dont have to.
the elite men still get their place and thats that, but all the other men, that earned the taxes, paid for the stuff and all that, they are replaced.
and now the common male prole can live the Marxist idyls life… sit around, not have to work, hang out, and let the women take care of it all.. home, work, everything.
and to get this privilege of being a state slave… they beat out and marginalized the men who wanted to work, earn, and provide.
and since they made socialist state, their leaders wont listen to them any more than stalin did.
you couldnt save them from this end no matter how hard you tried. every attempt was twarted… even trying to show them that they could possibly not make a good choice in voting, or policy, or in bending rules and so breaking fairness… or even redefining fairness that some equals are better than other equals
the best men are leaving the country
the US is having its FIRST brain drain
they are leaving the women behind here to their new society
many are marrying others
others are not marrying at all
what is the eventual outcome sans change?
and have we crossed the event horizon where there is no way to go back, even though noting happens at this point that you can tell.
an event horizon is the place where you learn checkmate in 10 moves, and there is no way to change that outcome once you crossed that point. dont matter as the future is fixed and no way to stop it as long as you continue playing the game on any level
what everyone here doesnt get is that the republicans are not going to reverse this law..
why would they reverse a law that gives them control over the people that had control over them?
good morals?
that went out with patriarchy and judeo christian society…
Hoist with your own petard
Injured by the device that you intended to use to injure others.
and THATS what the soviets did with the game. they held men down, so that women would come up with amoral rules and things for them ASSUMING that they would nto be subjected to the same things.
now, the fruit of the sick tree is starting to bear, and they are now going to be completely injurefd by the jail they intended for the men..
[edited for length by n-n]
Shorter Artfldgr: “Hulk hate Gyno-Americans. Hulk smash!”
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2012/06/chief-justice-roberts-writes-opinion.html
The mandate wasn’t upheld per se…the power to tax was expanded a bit. And a limit (strange and new) placed on the Federal gov’t’s ability to coerce with spending.
So…I actually declare victory.
I think Dostoevsky may have read this from the Bible. Verses 18 and 19 are very apropo:
13 And there was no bread in all the land; for the famine was very sore, so that the land of Egypt and all the land of Canaan fainted by reason of the famine.
14 And Joseph gathered up all the money that was found in the land of Egypt, and in the land of Canaan, for the corn which they bought: and Joseph brought the money into Pharaoh’s house.
15 And when money failed in the land of Egypt, and in the land of Canaan, all the Egyptians came unto Joseph, and said, Give us bread: for why should we die in thy presence? for the money faileth.
16 And Joseph said, Give your cattle; and I will give you for your cattle, if money fail.
17 And they brought their cattle unto Joseph: and Joseph gave them bread in exchange for horses, and for the flocks, and for the cattle of the herds, and for the asses: and he fed them with bread for all their cattle for that year.
18 When that year was ended, they came unto him the second year, and said unto him, We will not hide it from my lord, how that our money is spent; my lord also hath our herds of cattle; there is not ought left in the sight of my lord, but our bodies, and our lands:
19 Wherefore shall we die before thine eyes, both we and our land? buy us and our land for bread, and we and our land will be servants unto Pharaoh: and give us seed, that we may live, and not die, that the land be not desolate.
20 And Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for Pharaoh; for the Egyptians sold every man his field, because the famine prevailed over them: so the land became Pharaoh’s.
21 And as for the people, he removed them to cities from one end of the borders of Egypt even to the other end thereof.
22 Only the land of the priests bought he not; for the priests had a portion assigned them of Pharaoh, and did eat their portion which Pharaoh gave them: wherefore they sold not their lands.
23 Then Joseph said unto the people, Behold, I have bought you this day and your land for Pharaoh: lo, here is seed for you, and ye shall sow the land.
Just a word from The Classics
“The armies separated; and, it is said, Pyrrhus replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one more such victory would utterly undo him. For he had lost a great part of the forces he brought with him, and almost all his particular friends and principal commanders; there were no others there to make recruits, and he found the confederates in Italy backward. On the other hand, as from a fountain continually flowing out of the city, the Roman camp was quickly and plentifully filled up with fresh men, not at all abating in courage for the loss they sustained, but even from their very anger gaining new force and resolution to go on with the war.
–Plutarch”
This decision has all the characteristics of a Pyrrhic Victory: “Another such victory and I am undone”. Classic quotations – they are great.
U.S. faces a reverse brain drain, as highly educated immigrants head home
why would that be a brain drain?
well, if you knew how the different groups scored on SAT, you would know EXACTLY why..
Right now i am trying to do an end around this affirmative action system by looking outside to other countries.
The people that said they would help, have effectively let me languish, with this stuff for decades. Whether letting me languish is intentional or not, it doesn’t matter.
whether your killed by accident or on purpose may matter to the person killing you, but to you, your dead either way, and so their view, is not the correct one for you (yours is).
i cant get anywhere against affirmative action so great that there are o alternatives as they are too risky for the participants compared to all the guarantees of reverse discrimination
the health care law will ration care to the non protected classes (ie, your Jewish or white male, be prepared to be denied care more often than others under social justice)
So rather than try any more to build something here. i am trying to build something in the international arena, and looking to programs in china. i don’t WANT to, but what ELSE can i do? sit here and wait to die?
well.. you would be completely amazed at the number of smart males who are thinking this!!
even more so when they start looking for schools and all the images on the websites dont have them represented. and then they find out that outside the US they are wanted more than inside!!!
look, if your not Volk, you cant have a family, you cant have a good job, you cant use your skills and so on.
so why stay?
i can stay here, not get raises, not have respect, loose out to minorities and women because of my sex, and be forced to live and pay for others…
OR
i can leave here, get raises, be respected, earn enough to pay for school for my family, not be compelled to work at something less, not be compelled to pay for others to have kids i cant have.. and more…
unlike the immigrants flocking over the border, the inner city welfare people, and so on. us educated and skilled males have a place to go to outside, and unlike home, are not hated… (despite what MSM says here)
We need to stop America’s brain drain
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-innovations/we-need-to-stop-americas-brain-drain/2011/09/14/gIQAHOuJLL_story.html
[edited for length by n-n]
Sorry…it’s Genesis 47: 13-23.
Vanderluen..
Shorter Artfldgr: “Hulk hate Gyno-Americans. Hulk smash!”
THANKS for the help!!!
i am not stupid or vapid enough to translate the work for the rest of the vanderleun family and contemporaries.
i appreciate you down translating it so that you and your friends can participate.
so nice to see someone help the handicapped like that.
with out you, the leftist set might not have been able to get it… problem is, that you didnt get it either and mistranslated it. But thats ok… not like that matters to such.
damn.. i have to write at a lower level so that you can understand and then translate correctly to the rest of the familiy and friends?
Thanks.
The Romney camp has obtained over $1,000,000 in donations since the announcement by SCOTUS four hours ago.
Does anyone know how much they rake in on a usual day?
by the way..
i forgot to sign that last missive
for that Sign me
“Brier Fox and his friend Tar Baby”
The more that Br’er Rabbit fights the Tar-Baby, the more entangled he becomes. In modern usage, “tar baby” refers to any “sticky situation” that is only aggravated by additional contact.
There’s this also from the Inquisitor:
“Receiving bread from us, they will see clearly that we take the bread made by their hands from them, to give it to them, without any miracle.”
“And they will be glad to believe our answer, for it will save them from the great anxiety and terrible agony they endure at present in making a free decision for themselves. And all will be happy, all the millions of creatures except the hundred thousand who rule over them. For only we, we who guard the mystery, shall be unhappy. There will be thousands of millions of happy babes, and a hundred thousand sufferers who have taken upon themselves the curse of the knowledge of good and evil.”
Of the second quote I would only say be careful of what you aspire to. There will be an accounting.
While this decision has turned up the passion of the center-right to white hot, I’ll play Devil’s Advocate and say that it could, possibly, be a net positive for Obama. People like a winner and, well, he Just Won. Again. In a few swing states, small things matter, even when they’re stupid things.
Time to crack our wallets, make phone calls, walk neighborhoods, etc, etc, etc… We cannot let this stand! (I contributed $50.00 to Romney, and another $50.00 to my Congressional candidate.)
I was at work when I wrote the brief comment Neo highlighted. I’m home now and have a couple of drinks in me, and so have the time to flesh it out a bit.
Does anybody seriously believe that Romney or the Institutional Republicans will repeal this? I don’t, not for a minute. No, exactly like the “right” parties of Europe, they will just tinker with it and tweak it around the edges to “improve” it. Future Republican candidates will run on the platform that they can manage National Health Care better than the Democrats.
And this will lead to single-payer government-run healthcare, as insurance companies either drop health insurance or else go out of business. That was Obama’s plan all along. He has said so himself.
There are millions of conservatives and libertarians throughout the country who are either extremely suspicious of Romney or else outright distrust him. Both houses of Congress are filled with statist RINOs. Republican-nominated Supreme Court justices have been, shall we say, disappointing. Does anybody seriously believe that a President Romney would appoint constitutionalist justices? Please. Don’t insult my intelligence.
We have been constantly browbeaten that we must vote Republican or else the Democrat boogeyman will eat us. Many of us have been trying to steel ourselves to hold our noses and vote for the R.
Today’s decision just caused millions of potential Republican votes to evaporate.
rickl: your reasoning is unintelligible to me.
First of all—yes, I think they will repeal it if they can get enough Republicans in Congress in 2012. I see no reason that they would not. I do think they will try to get in place an alternate system, one that reforms private insurance in various ways, such as more portability, etc. etc. (there are various proposals afoot and published on that).
Your distrust of everyone is getting in the way of your judgment, IMHO. This SCOTUS decision certainly should make no Republicans who were already going to hold their noses and vote for Mitt less likely to vote for him now. Republicans are not guaranteed to fulfill their repeal promises on Obamacare, of course, but electing Democrats instead (which is the result of not voting for Republicans) assures that Obamacare will become the entrenched law of the land.
Fair enough, neo. I guess time will tell which of us is right.
But many people already distrust the Institutional Republicans, and this will not help the situation.
And I think that Obamacare is now the entrenched law of the land. That’s what today’s decision was all about.
rickl: I missed the part in the SCOTUS decision that says Obamacare can’t be repealed.
I’m not saying it can’t be repealed. I’m saying it won’t be.
rickl: you wrote, “And I think that Obamacare is now the entrenched law of the land. That’s what today’s decision was all about.”
My point is that the SCOTUS decision has nothing whatsoever to do with whether Obamacare is the entrenched law of the land. It is a statute that can be repealed. There is nothing in this decision that entrenches it. The decision merely failed to overturn it.
I can’t see it being repealed without a drastic change in the makeup of Congress. That means supermajorities of real fire-breathing, take-no-prisoners conservatives, not go-along-to-get-along RINOs. I just don’t see that happening.
Rickl,
I distrust 99.9% of all politicians 99.9% of the time. In general, I distrust lawyers and consider graduates of the Ivy League a source of mischief. And, I routinely question or at least wonder about the motives of anyone I do not know on a personal basis.
That said however, I think a repub house & senate, with a Romney in the Oval Office, will dismantle this dangerous, putrid albatross know as Obamacare.
“A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers.” — H. L. Mencken
We need no judge to tell us what is or is not legal and proper under the Constitution. We need no judge to tell us what is right or wrong. The Constitution is not a convoluted, mysterious document. It is straight forward and easily understood by the common man/woman. What is right or wrong is equally clear. You know it and I know it.
The days of the DC-MSM elitists shall pass. It may take much longer than we wish, but they shall eventually rest uncomfortably in the dustbin of history. I believe that the USA is a one time only, special entity in the flow of human history (so far). At least 5% of us are made of stern stuff, we shall prevail.
Can someone tell me how the conditions that led to the elections in 2010 are not identical to the current moment?
holmes: the difference I see—or at least the danger I see—is that some people are more tired and demoralized on the right now, because even two years after 2010 it wasn’t enough. I’ve noticed on quite a few blogs on the right today a lot of that “a plague on both your parties” talk, people saying they’ll stay home rather than vote, and some resurgence of the Rommey-hating. Perhaps some of these people are concern trolls, though; it’s hard to say.
neo says, “… the danger I see–is that some people are more tired and demoralized on the right now…”
With all due respect, you are wrong. The Roberts’s opinion is a call to arms. ‘Some people’ are not tired or demoralized; they are enraged.
Parker: No, I am not wrong. I have seen that some people around the blogosphere are more tired and demoralized than in 2010.
Are most? I don’t think so. And it may well be that more people on the right are extra-fired-up and re-energized by this than are tired. I don’t have a count, but I hope that’s true. However, that doesn’t change the fact that some people are tired and demoralized.
I was responding to a question from holmes which asked if I saw any difference between now and 2010. In 2010 the fight was new, and now it’s older. And so some people are tired. Plus, I’ve seen a renewal of the anger at Romney and supposed RINOs in Congress, because Roberts is now seen as a waffling RINO, and they are tarred with the same brush.
These are facts; these are based on a lot of comments I have seen around the blogosphere. Again, it may be a very vocal and small number of people in absolute terms, a number overshadowed by those who are feeling energized. But it exists and is quite noticeable, at least today, when the disappointment is keen for a lot of people.
oh I am afraid that Artfldgr reveals the dire consequences of reckless affirmative action.
Supreme Court decision today: of course it’s a tax. It was always a tax. The backers just got away with insisting it was not a tax and the opponents got bullied.
But, in defeat, in tiredness, do we jump to the conclusion that a Romney or a Rubio or a West is made of the same fabric as a Pelosi or an Obama of a Reid? I like to continue to believe in the good, despite the strength of artfldgr arument. I think I hear him whisling, but there remain a few strong, clear, intelligent people who carry the torch of best ideas mankind has ever produced. This is the dark; it’s getting worse before it gets better. This horrible divide in our land is revealing the speciousness of liberal wishful thinking and it is pushing up to the surface plenty of strong minds who wish to build, re-build, a great nation with ethics, clarity, and freedom of the individual. Dang, I can still hear that whistle, but, tired though I am, I insist upon believing.
Thank you for posting this. Yours is one of the only blogs I have seen that is talking about the decision with anything approaching rationality (though maybe I just need to expand my reading circle). It’s not the end of the world and seen with a long lens, it may possibly end up benefiting the citizenry.
The hope that the court would overturn the ACA was like the hope that a fake birth certificate would surface – a blind hope for all the eggs to be in one basket and solve all the problems in one fell swoop. Life rarely works like that. The best chance we had at getting rid of the ACA is still the best chance we have – elect a majority to the Senate and take the Presidency.
Focusing on the one fell swoop approach rather than a slow and steady wins the race approach blinds so many to what they can and should be doing to change the situation. There are many, many reasons to oppose what has been going on in the halls of power. How about we start to articulate some of those rather than going all “waily, waily, woe is us” about this decision? Educating the voters is the only way to get this done. I have my serious doubts about that being possible, but it is definitely not possible if all we want to do is moan.