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SCOTUS issues ruling on birthright citizenship — 10 Comments

  1. Roberts strikes again to destroy the country.
    Birthright tourism is wide open. Any pregnant women can come visit andleave with a American citizen.
    So much for Constitution Lawyers

  2. Are not the children of US citizens also citizens at birth regardless of birth location?
    This is egregiously stupid. One step closer to civil upheaval.

    The rational response to this stupidity is

    ALL females capable of producing children now or in the future (i.e. female children) should be barred from entry. All visas for the same cancelled and prioritize removal of illegal females including female children. Can’t have the non-pregnant (including visa overstays) evading deportation long enough to get pregnant and give birth, so expel them all.

    Except the Swedish World Cup fan in the light blue bikini. She can stay.

  3. But it stands, and now it seems to me that the only way to change it is through a constitutional amendment.

    The decision is not surprising. Though extremely troubling for our country going forward. Yes, the success of an amendment process looks remote.

    But here is a what-if: I don’t think the constitution actually says that the Supreme Court is the most powerful or even the most determinative of the three gov. bodies. A dumb move would be for the president to try this Executive Order move again. However, what if Congress were to pass legislation that essentially follows Kavanaugh’s script? Passage is difficult to muster here also, unless the filibuster goes away, but much easier than an amendment.

    Additionally, (and this may be bad politics &/or psychology) this hypothetical legislation could directly challenge the SCOTUS’s authority to be the only arbiter of such momentous findings.

    I don’t know if the following is true or merely PC posturing, but Roberts claims to care a lot about whether the SCOTUS is seen as a group of partisans enacting their will, rather than being judicious interpreters of the Constitution and law. Unfortunately, many on the left already are certain that some of the justices are right wing partisan hacks, and folks like us here probably strongly believe that Sotomayor and KBJ are left wing hacks. (Too late justice Roberts!)

    I was quite surprised when the court reversed the Roe v. Wade and Casey structure. So that type of thing is a possibility. But I can’t imagine that Roberts would reverse himself. Is there some universe where Barrett changes her mind? Or, we will get one or more new justices before too long.

  4. If the ruling had simply focused on the wording of the 14th Amendment and on whether the president has unilateral authority to issue a binding interpretation thereof (hey separation of powers) well and fine.

    Upholding precedent is understandable. But we have seen the Court go against precedent when they thought it was not grounded in the text (and intent?) of the Constitution and its Amendments.

    Chases Eagles wrote: Are not the children of US citizens also citizens at birth regardless of birth location?

    My understanding is it depends on the nation where they are born. The vast majority of nations around the world rely on jus sanguinis the “right of blood”.

    My youngest sister was born in the United Kingdom (several years after they ended a law granting dual citizenship until the age of eighteen). Our parents are United States citizens who held United States passports. She was and is an American citizen.

    It would have been interesting if my parents had to secure a British passport – and get a visa? – so they could return to the States with their British child!

  5. Chases Eagles, we’re thinking alike.

    Trump could prioritize deporting illegal alien women of childbearing age, keep the border, north and south, tightly sealed, and not grant visas of any kind to pregnant women.

    I think he can get away with that system.

  6. Just read an excerpt from Justice Alitor’s dissent so I need to revisit Chases Eagle’s comment above.

    Congress can and should address their situation. The
    Fourteenth Amendment dictates who must be a citizen, but
    it does not address who may be a citizen by Act of Congress.
    Congress has conferred citizenship on many people who are
    not made citizens by the Fourteenth Amendment, including
    children born abroad to American citizen parents.

    Interesting. One wonders what happens when the laws of the nation (where a child is born) are at odds with the laws of the nation (of which the child’s parents are citizens). When a nation that relies on jus solis says “this child is a citizen because s/he was born here” but the nation of which the parents are citizens says “no, the child was born abroad to American citizen parents and is therefore an American citizen”.

  7. I think the Court has made a mistake similar to the ruling on gay marriage, which Scalia warned would cause big trouble. They could have, more cautiously, ruled that an Executive Order was not sufficient to determine the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment, leaving the question for Congress, as Kavanaugh argues. I am sorry they chose the more radical path.

  8. The problem is that, until about 10 minutes ago, even the right agreed that the 14th amendment established birthright citizenship. In all seriousness, the movement among legal scholars on the right to reevaluate that only got going in earnest just a few years ago.

    FWIW, I think the case against the 14th Amendment requiring birthright citizenship has some merit, but as I mentioned on the other thread, this was not done the right way and, in fact, it was done in a way that will make it MORE difficult to achieve the desired result.

    Look at how the 2nd amendment was handled. The case that the 2nd amendment established an individual right to bear arms was somewhere between dormant and completely dead for most of the 20th century. Over the course of decades, legal scholars on the right moved slowly and deliberately to change that. Conservative legal scholars at universities and think tanks wrote journal articles, arguments were tried out and honed and slowly, as the time became right, 2nd amendment activists started bringing cases that chipped away at the previous consensus, ultimately leading to Heller in 2008.

    The successful move to reverse Roe was similar, but I think Heller is more relevant here. If 2nd amendment advocates had forced a SCOTUS case in, say, 1982 before all of the groundwork had been laid, they would have only succeeded in creating SCOTUS precedent directly holding that there was no individual right from the 2nd amendment.

    Well, that’s what happened here. A quickie EO created a predictably difficult case that has now, very predictably, created direct SCOTUS precedent for the birthright citizenship interpretation of the 14th amendment. And so now, the burgeoning movement to reinterpret the citizenship clause of the 14th amendment is, effectively, dead as a doornail. The movement is actually WORSE off than it was before the EO.

    neo suggests legislation. That might work, but most likely won’t. This decision shows that, unless somebody changes their mind, there are only 4 votes on SCOTUS who would rule to uphold a statute. After this case, the best chance is a long shot Constitutional amendment.

  9. It needs to as draconian as I wrote. It needs to be shoved in the face of the four stupid women on the court. No females under 55. You can’t be sure they will leave. Rub their noses in it.

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