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Home » The insurrection narrative meets the courts

The insurrection narrative meets the courts

The New Neo Posted on by

NOTE: I have a busy day today and can’t give this the attention it deserves at the moment. But I wanted to put it out there anyway, probably to be revisited in greater depth in the future.

We’re heard over and over about the “insurrection” of January 6th. The idea that it was an insurrection is now deeply ingrained in most people’s minds, which is the point of the MSM’s and the Democrats’ rushing to judgment on such things. It’s a tried and true method that works in the sense of planting perspectives that are difficult or impossible to later change, even with the addition of facts that contradict it – and those facts are often suppressed or minimized by the media as well.

But in the world of actions rather than of perceptions, the courts still retain some say-so. And although the court system is strongly politicized, it’s not completely and totally politicized (not yet, anyway). For example, evidence that meets certain standards is still ordinarily required in court, although judges and juries sometimes ignore it or interpret it as they wish to get the results they want.

So now we have these legal developments regarding those arrested for their January 6th actions (and please see this as well as this, and this for some background).

I haven’t read all of that yet. But as I said, I plan to read the articles and comment further.

Comments

The insurrection narrative meets the courts — 30 Comments

  1. Initial impressions are indeed often extremely difficult to dislodge, and minds predisposed, usually by ideological or political inclination, to consider something to be true can be very resistant to the altering of an opinion once it has been (prematurely) formed, even if a preponderance of evidence turns out to point elsewhere. Carl Sagan (a very bright and very interesting man, neither religious nor conservative) was determined to warn of the danger of believing in something because one wished or needed to believe it was true.

  3. Carl Sagan (a very bright and very interesting man, neither religious nor conservative) was determined to warn of the danger of believing in something because one wished or needed to believe it was true.

    j e:

    A fault of which Sagan was frequently guilty. For instance, Sagan was one of the authors of the TTAPS Nuclear Winter study which claimed a nuclear war could severely chill the climate and create more devastation than the war itself.

    Sadly, the study’s climate models left out factors such as the rotation of the earth… But it did reach a conclusion Sagan desired.

  5. huxley:

    Heard Carl Sagan give a talk at college in 1974 or 75. Someone asked about astrology (listen up Yammer) and the influence of “the stars” on his life. Well he said the stop sign at the street corner of the hospital where he was born had more influence (mass and gravity etc.) than the constellations of the Zodiac. Now output of the Sun or Solar flares, or gamma ray burst may indeed prove to be a very bad thing for mankind as a whole, but astrology may only be a bad thing individually.

  6. Good Article. I can also recommend Meaning in History Commentary. Many of these articles link to the same sources.

    https://meaninginhistory.blogspot.com/2021/03/an-independent-judiciary.html

    In the “What are the Odds #127” program (highly recommend) Richard Baris riffed on the same theme at the beginning of the podcast. Later on they talk about Trump and his prospects and his failures in picking people. You can find it in You Tube. I joined Locals to deprive You Tube of eyeballs.

    https://vivabarneslaw.locals.com/‘

  8. I am Spartacus, om:

    Still, it’s hard not to like “Mr. Billions and Billions” Sagan. I did appreciate his show and the sense of wonder he could invoke. Plus he was a real scientist with real cred.

    OTOH, Neil deGrasse Tyson is a midget propagandist in comparison.

    A funny story I recall — John Lilly, the wild CalTech-trained scientist who became enthralled with LSD and ketamine to the point of calling the White House because he was concerned about alien robot intelligences menacing humanity, once said he was worried about Sagan, a neighbor at the time, because Sagan was using too much pot.

    A bit like when Keith Richards was concerned Gram Parsons was using too much heroin. (Richards turned out right — Parsons od’ed some time later in a hotel near the Joshua Tree Monument.)

  9. The entire event on January 6 was partly, maybe wholly, a setup to demonize Trump supporters. It is certainly being used for that now. I expect these individuals will be on a “no fly list” for years and the military is gearing up, with the aid of Zampolits, to accuse all Trump supporters of being “Domestic Terrorists.” How this will fly with enlisted members will be interesting but I know a CPO who has served with SEALs for years who just got out and is doing well with a civilian career. He was a SeaBee and is a craftsman and will be hard to replace. Even Special Ops is now going for the political officer.

  10. huxley:

    I agree about Carl Sagan falling prey to political winds of the times (Nuclear Winter scam) and wonder if he would have fallen prey to the AGW hoax as well. Cancer, not the constellation, got him before the AGW hoax, and he did get spun up about Saddam Hussein burning those oil wells IIRC, but Cosmos was a good watch (not Pretty Boring Stuff) from WGBH.

  12. huxley:

    Scales fall from my eyes! Carl couldn’t see orange orb in sky and it’s effect on climate. But then in the mid to late ’70s the climate was heading toward another ice age (still may be so). Politics had it’s uses, as ever.

  13. The entire event on January 6 was partly, maybe wholly, a setup to demonize Trump supporters. It is certainly being used for that now.

    Mike K:

    Amen to that. How I wish it were otherwise.

    But if not, they would have found something else. They make their own luck.

  14. I love this quote in the first link about the first case where they found that indefinite detention is uncalled for:

    “Their misconduct was serious”

    Their “conduct” was to walk through an open door into the Capitol with no discouragement from anyone… and that’s it.

    There is absolutely nothing “serious” about it.

  15. OTOH, Neil deGrasse Tyson is a midget propagandist in comparison.

    Tyson is an astrophysicist whose scholarly publication record would be satisfactory for an ordinary teaching institution and quite possibly for a selective teaching institution. Sagan was a scholar-teacher at Cornell who produced some general-audience work on the side. Broadcast media when he was on top consisted of three commercial channels and PBS, so he had a proportionately larger audience than Tyson. Tyson after finishing his doctorate went into science education (his main job is running a planetarium). His broadcast credits are more numerous than Sagan’s (I think by an order of magnitude), but he’s had less reach.

  17. My feeling from the get go, mostly from rally goers on talk radio was it was a set up by Antifa.
    Hopefully misdemeanors and most are, are let off as the government case falls apart. And note the likes of John Solomon are totally forgotten. ( he was the video proof ringleader)

  18. Would Sagan have fallen for Bill Gates’s geo-engineering? [Sending aerosol particles into high earth orbit to reflect sunlight and cool the earth] Chances are he would have, forgetting entirely about the nuclear winter story.

    Gates is a pretty smart guy, so he must know that reduced solar energy at ground level will: a. increase? or b. decrease? agricultural output.

    And is that a feature or a bug?

  19. WARNING: waaaaay off-topic.

    Arnold Kling has moved on to the next phase of his fantasy league competition among teams of public intellectuals. I still don’t quite get how it’s going to work, but it’s supposed to be analogous to fantasy sports leagues.

    The intellectual fantasy league competition will be played out at Kling’s blog, from April 1 to June 30, 2021. (http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/the-top-150-intellectuals-selected-competitively/)

    Yesterday was draft day, and NewNeo was drafted number 137. For someone with neither a legacy media job, nor a Twitter following, that’s pretty good.

  20. We are approaching a tipping point in this country. The extent to which the Justice Department and intelligence community have been politicized has turned us into a banana republic. With Watergate there were 69 government officials charged, and 48 convicted, with more than a dozen serving time in prison. Obamagate was much worse, yet in the end only one low level FBI employee was given a slap on the wrist. Barr and Durham ended up being a joke.

    Hopefully the Munchel ruling will be the beginning of a return to the rule of law:

    “In our society liberty is the norm, and detention prior to trial or without trial is the carefully limited exception.’ Salerno, 481 U.S. at 755. Because the district court clearly erred here, I would reverse its detention order and remand for the setting of appropriate release conditions.”

    I know, I am not holding my breath.

  21. With Watergate there were 69 government officials charged, and 48 convicted, with more than a dozen serving time in prison.

    Where did you get this datum? There were eight men convicted in re the various burglaries, five who plea bargained to various charges (of whom four were sent to Fort Holabird in Maryland), and four who were convicted at trial of obstruction of justice, &c. There were several others who were shnagged for minor offenses or misleading the grand jury.

  22. Michael Yon was there. He is convinced that the main instigators were Antifa.

    Here’s an article that talks about what he’s seen here, in Hong Kong, in Japan, etc. Different places, same tactics. We call them Antifa here, but they’re actually the “Red Guards.” They are the violent vanguard of communism.
    https://noqreport.com/2021/03/28/international-conflict-journalist-michael-yon-says-antifa-blm-are-clearly-cults/

    Here’s another article with a video attached:
    https://minuteman-militia.com/2021/01/13/michael-yon-antifa-clearly-led-attack-at-the-capitol/

    Will the FBI ever figure that out? No, their mission is to find “deplorables” and put the fear of big guv’mint in them. Also to convince the LIVs and useful idiots that Jan 6th was a true attempt at sedition.

  23. Chris B:

    Whatever the exact number of Watergate conspirators prosecuted and sentenced, I would wager that had a Democratic administration been the perps rather than Nixon and Republicans, very few if any would have been prosecuted. Even back then.

  25. Art Deco- Here are the 13 individuals I found that served jail and prison time for the Watergate scandal:

    John Mitchel was convicted of perjury for his involvement in the Watergate break-in and Served 19 months in prison.

    Jeb Magruder pled guilty to one count of conspiracy to the burglary and served seven months in prison.

    Richard Kleindienst was convicted of contempt of court and served one month in jail.

    Frederick LaRue, advisor to John Mitchell, was convicted of obstruction of justice and served four and a half months.

    H. R. Haldeman, Chief of Staff for Nixon was convicted of conspiracy to the burglary, obstruction of justice, and perjury. He Served 18 months in prison.

    John Erlichman, Counsel to Nixon, was convicted of conspiracy to the burglary,
    obstruction of justice, and perjury. He served 18 months in prison.

    John Dean, counsel to Nixon, was convicted of obstruction of justice, later reduced to felony offenses and sentenced to time already served, which totaled four months.

    Dwight Chapen was counsel to Nixon. He was convicted of obstruction of justice and sentenced to time served, which totaled four months.

    Charles Colson was special counsel to Nixon and was convicted of obstruction of justice. He served seven months in prison.

    G Gordon Liddy was convicted of masterminding the burglary, original sentence of up to 20 years in prison. He served 4 1?2 years in federal prison.

    E Howard Hunt was a security consultant who was convicted of masterminding and overseeing the burglary. He served 33 months.

    James W. McCord was convicted of six charges of burglary, conspiracy and wiretapping, and served two months in prison.

    Virgilio Gonzalez was convicted of burglary. His original sentence was up to 40 years in prison. He served 13 months.

    My information was based on a short internet search only, and was used to illustrate my point, which is the politicization of the current DOJ. I was including anyone connected to the entire Watergate affair, not just the burglars. I will defer to you though, if you have more accurate information.

  26. Dwight Chapin was the president’s appointments secretary. He pled to having mislead a grand jury about the activities of his pal, Donald Segretti. Segretti was hired to prank the Democratic campaigns. The Democrats had on their staff a man named Dick Tuck whose job was similar (but who was never indicted). IIRC, the charges contra Richard Kleindienst concerned the Dita Beard matter, not Watergate.

  27. To Richard Aubrey re: your doctrinaire SIL. I figure that you would most likely to see this post here vs. from several days ago. I wish I could send a notice. Here is a piece of evidence to give to her and ask why are masks needed and a COVID Passport when states with the most relaxed COVID rules have lower cases.

    Biden issued a panicked press conference to try to make the southern states to mask up again. Why? Because the new CDC director is crying about COVID. She is very worried.

    The country is in the best of hands.

    http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=393398

    Biden Demands States Reimpose COVID Mask Mandates – The Last Refuge (theconservativetreehouse.com)

    Extract: Apparently the far-left have a need to reignite COVID weaponized fear. With more states dropping mask mandates and opening up their restrictions, the JoeBama administration is facing a crisis of spontaneous self-reliance breaking out. They really need the COVID fear to continue their control over all facets of society.

    It’s likely they need to funnel more money into their allied corporate funders and the COVID fear is a necessary component therein. The globalist vaccination passport agenda also needs a dangerous virus in order to facilitate the control program. If states are open, masks dropped, restrictions removed and COVID is not deadly, it will be a lot harder to sell the registration program underpinning the vaccination passport agenda.

    As a result, Biden is wheeled out from his walk-in-tub and told to go read the fearmongering script stat. Panic is needed quickly. Those pesky dissidents are pressuring their state and local officials to stop with the nonsense propaganda. Mr. Mumbles needs to support the fear narrative… oh and use the creepy, whisper voice.

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/03/right-now-scared-cdc-director-warns-impending-doom-covid-case-trajectory-video/

  28. Neo, I was madly hoping that the lawyers for Trump at the second Impeachment Senate “Trial” would spend some time right at the beginning showing videos of and describing the definitional elements of various past Insurrections around the world, and explaining how what happened on January 6th could not in any way, shape, or form, correspond to a public, as opposed to a military, uprising Insurrection. It would have helped subsequent discussions. Images of dead bodies in the streets and burning buildings, etc. No one even in their wrong mind would have tried an unarmed insurrection against the USA.

  29. Spartacus. Thanks for the info. For the True Believers, it’s the severity of the reaction that counts. Not the results. If there’s a conflict–as you describe–the thing is “a mess” and the lack of severity is the reason. That’s in looking at less severe states with good results.
    More severe states with bad results–Michigan, NY, etc,–are doing things right. Forcing a confrontation with facts, if done with sufficient focus, results in word salad.

  30. Richard – one more linked article with individual state information. Another tactic is to ask her to provide data that backs up her assertions. Ie. Put up or shut up. When people actually have to look for verification information, they frequently will start finding data that contradicts their assumptions. Then cracks should start to form. Not initially at first but as time goes on then they have to fit assumptions into data. If she is a doctrinaire, don’t bother me with the facts. My mind is made up. Don’t spend much time on it. Just present and move on.

    https://redstate.com/bonchie/2021/03/30/the-latest-data-absolutely-eviscerates-the-case-for-mandatory-masking-n352629

    Good luck. Change is a process and not a moment.

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