That Christopher Nolan sound
I noticed a couple of recent comments here by readers who have taken in the Nolan film The Odyssey and have remarked on the extreme loudness of the music and the almost-unintelligible dialogue – for example, see this.
I’ve seen another Nolan film: Diunkirk. I watched it in a movie theater in 2017, and I reviewed it this post, the title of which is “The Dunkirk Din.”
That title says a lot. One thing it says is that the sound problems are consistent and we can safely conclude they are a choice (and an echo). Here are some excerpts from that post:
I thought “Dunkirk” was the sort of movie that would be good to see in one of those RPX movie theaters. But I took the precaution of taking some earplugs along with me to protect my sensitive ears.
I was tremendously glad I did. One of the first things I noticed about the movie was the assaultive, hideous sound, which even the earplugs couldn’t dull enough for me. I felt the need to push them in deeper with my fingers and kept covering my ears, too. And even then, the blasting percussive bass made the seats vibrate so forcefully that it almost felt as though those Spitfires were flying right over us.
I assume that was the point. Unfortunately, it seemed to be almost the only point of the movie, which concentratee on giving the audience the feeling that we are participants in Dunkirk, The Video Game.
The film is a real blockbuster and has been widely and highly praised. But I had so many quarrels with it that I left the theater almost angry.
Read the whole thing, if you’re interested.
I had been forewarned by reviews about the sound problem; that’s why I came to the experience prepared with the earplugs. But although the sound wasn’t the only problem, it certainly was a big problem. I’ll not subject myself to that again.
The question is, why does Nolan do this? Apparently he’s more interested in spectacle and visuals than in the lowly human interaction known as spoken communication. Now, movies are definitely a visual medium, and so that’s very important. But if people can’t follow the plot and are bombarded by almost-assaultive music, that’s pretty awful. However, Nolan is so highly praised that maybe most people don’t care, or agree with him that spoken human interaction isn’t particularly important.
In that post of mine on Dunkirk, there’s a quote from some veterans of the actual WWII Dunkirk who had attended the movie. They remarked that the film experience was louder than Dunkirk itself had been.
If you’re interested in the technical reasons given for the sound choices in Nolan’s films, see either or both of these two rather short videos:
[NOTE: I also saw the Nolan film Interstellar, but I didn’t review it here. Nevertheless, I distinctly recall being frustrated at not being able to understand quite a bit of the dialogue.]
IMAX was first displayed at Montreal’s Expo ’67. I remember watching a film at Expo ’74, flying through Grand Canyon. It was pretty impressive.
IMAX wasn’t originally intended for feature films.
No plan to see The Odyssey though I like Matt Damon. As fot Dunkirk saw it at a theater. Thought it was very good, could see it again but haven’t. War movies are I would say are my favorite but 1 view didn’t move it to.my top 10.
neo’s first video mentions Nolan’s relative lack of ADR or re-dubbing of sound and dialog. I remember being rather shocked to discover that many of these great older Italian films (maybe Fellini or de Sica, etc.) had no sound recording on set at all. Or perhaps, I suspect, just low quality audio recording. Then, all of the sound in the final film was added after the shooting was finished.
I wear foam ear plugs (29 dB) and ear muffs (29 dB) when at a particular type of drill rig. I will not pay to get more hearing trauma. I already need hearing aids. Bone conduction still allows the din to get through?
Why does Nolan do it to his audience? Contempt for the proles?
I don’t recall Dunkirk as especially loud, beyond the guy in the Spitfire tooling around in the sky, I don’t recall the film at all.
Interstellar was loud, but had more of an impact; quite a few scenes stick in my memory.
Bow down, peasants, before the God of 21C filmmaking!
His genius vision is far more important than your puny human desires to understand the dialog or not have your hearing damaged.
I’ve seen all of his films up Tenet and I have no desire to rewatch any of them. I’ve got a copy of Oppenheimer and I know his story, but I find myself reluctant to watch a three-hour Nolan film about him.
My 12 year old granddaughter loves the classics. After doing some research on this movie she was extremely disappointed and gave it a hearty “well that’s off the list!” She was expecting a close to the original movie. I believe her exact words were “Homer would be pissed!”
Richard Cook:
Smart cookie.
”The question is, why does Nolan do this? Apparently he’s more interested in spectacle and visuals than in the lowly human interaction known as spoken communication…maybe most people don’t care, or agree with him that spoken human interaction isn’t particularly important.”
I think this has much to do with it. I was talking to some millennials at work a few years ago, and all of them mentioned how much they hated movies that were older than about ten years old at the time: too slow, too much dialog, couldn’t follow the plot, etc.
When they went to movies they wanted a visual and aural spectacle and nothing else — fast action and continuous explosions from the opening sequence to the closing credits. They didn’t want a plot, and they didn’t want character development. They absolutely didn’t want to have to think at any point in the movie — just bask in the spectacle.
Now, action movies had been around a long time at that point, but until then they had mixed plot, dialog, and character development into the mix. But that was what they hated — to the point that they couldn’t watch a movie older than about ten years old.
It wasn’t the desire for action that got to me but the utter disdain for everything else. It was both sad and infuriating.
I’m afraid that as long as filmmakers are catering to that mindset movies are going to be shallow and unfulfilling.
I’ve got a copy of Oppenheimer and I know his story, but I find myself reluctant to watch a three-hour Nolan film about him. — huxley
I liked the film (but didn’t love it), in part, because I had sat in a room long ago when Edward Teller had dropped by LANL to say hello. The film has one of the better descriptions of his original involvement and some of the subsequent animosities.
– – – – –
neo’s 2nd video has a very brief quote from Nolan saying that his intent is to bring the experience of “being there” to the viewer. Unlike say, a god-like narrator’s overview of the event.
This reminds me of Nolan’s second film and the first one with a full Hollywood budget. My favorite film of his, Insomnia (2002). He does a good job of conveying what the experience of deep persistent insomnia might be like.
Plot spoilers! I was trying to find a clip of the visual insomnia technique that Nolan used, which was an optical rig for instant focus pulling. It’s in this video near the end (11:50) where the narrator says, “That famous windshield wiper scene.” There are other scenes with it too. And this vid chops it all up anyway. Sigh. It’s a nice little movie review though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz9NRTXnDlQ
I have to mention the very young screenwriter of that remake, Hillary Seitz. Sadly, I think it was her first and last solo effort, though she did some other collaborative writing work after that. She did a fabulous job.
I’ll finish with the classic example of film dialog that difficult, if not impossible, to understand, and that is director Robert Altman’s multi-dialog scenes. As with Nolan, he is trying to give the viewer that “You are there” experience.
Ever been at a big party or a bar partaking of one small discussion group, but another small discussion group is right nearby?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFiXAgwuaJI
It helps a lot, to see these in context. But it clearly isn’t the point to understand everything being said. And if you wish, you can watch the film again.
Someone (important) somewhere decided din was important. Why? mkent has part.of the answer.
All of this, and one of Chases Eagles‘ posts from the Open Thread, got me thinking about In Search of the Trojan War with Michael Wood. I really enjoyed that once upon a time. I just had a delayed train ride and watched the first episode – they’re all on YouTube. I got right back into it. They’re great.
I’ll watch Nolan’s Odyssey. I hope I enjoy it nearly as well as the documentary.
And this seems like the perfect crew to ask. Favorite translation? I haven’t actually read it since college. Going to do something about that.
Lattimore, Mike. Plus if you can, use the Perseus greek copy to untangle key bits: https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/collection?collection=Perseus%3Acollection%3AGreco-Roman
As the feminist who wrote the translation of the odyssey used for the film said, “Homer never specified that Odysseus’ crew didn’t consist of full blooded Indian, Chinese, and sub-Saharan Africans, only that they were from Ithaca Greece. Those people all live in Ithaca today so it’s entirely possible that they are their descendants “
@ mkent > “I’m afraid that as long as filmmakers are catering to that mindset movies are going to be shallow and unfulfilling.”
Perhaps the directors are simply conceding that their plots are incoherent and the dialogue banal, so who needs to listen to it anyway?
And if they aren’t now, they soon will be.
Another reason I have seen bruited is that actors no longer learn to speak clearly, so even if you re-recorded in the studio and could hear the dialogue you still wouldn’t understand it.
Who needs actors and scriptwriters anymore?
AI can fill any such needs in the future.
*******
Taking just a few of the first search hits on actors, all of which have essentially the same answers but with a few unique insights and a bonus on Nolan.
https://actingmagazine.com/2024/12/why-do-actors-keep-mumbling/
(Covers most of the basics.)
https://seanjkernan.substack.com/p/why-movie-dialogue-is-so-hard-to
(The basics and some context. Yes, bring earplugs.)
https://www.slashfilm.com/673162/heres-why-movie-dialogue-has-gotten-more-difficult-to-understand-and-three-ways-to-fix-it/
“This problem indeed goes far beyond simply flipping a switch or two on a mixing board. It’s much more complex than I anticipated, and it turns out there isn’t one simple element that can be singled out and blamed as the primary culprit.”
(But apparently the directors don’t want to fix it.)
However, the rest of that post was very complete about the problems and possible solutions IF you get the director to insist on them.
https://www.fortressofsolitude.co.za/movie-dialogue-hard-to-hear-nolan-odyssey-fix/
“Movie Dialogue Is Getting Worse. Christopher Nolan Says He’s Fixed It For The Odyssey ..”
I almost stopped right there!
The explanations of the problem are pretty much the same, more simplistic than in Slashfilm’s post, but there is the bonus section that might actually be useful.
“How to Fix Low Dialogue and Loud Sound Effects on Your TV”
One year the Academy awards awarded the Oscar’s Lifetime Achievement Award to legendary director Frank Capra. In his acceptance remarks, he related to the Oscar audience his guiding principle in movie making. llRC, ‘I decided early on that, if I was going to ask people to pay to sit in the dark for two hours, I’d better have a story worth telling.’
Though I was greatly impressed with Heath Ledger’s Joker in Nolan’s “The Dark Knight”, Nolan really hasn’t anything new to say, nothing to add to Western Civ.’s classical canon of literature. So he goes for distractions like mumbling actors and unintelligible dialog. Nolan’s reworking of the Odyssey is simply another instance of woke media historical & cultural assassination.
I hope I remember the lesson I’ve learned here:
No more viewing Christopher Nolan movies in theaters.
Geoffrey Britain:
Without quoting your comment verbatim, Amen!
My problem with Nolan is he seems to be a deeply selfish artist, who cares little for his audience or, as far as I can tell, human beings in general.
Sure, he’s mastered his craft, but it’s all ego, just the challenges and puzzles he finds interesting.
ChatGPT does a better job of pretending to understand people. I’m sure Nolan is smart enough, but he just doesn’t care.
It’s interesting to compare Kubrick and Nolan.
Kubrick is also a technical perfectionist (though I find Kubrick’s cinematic visual sense far superior). However, while his characters may be stereotypical exaggerations (Dr. Strangelove) they are recognizably human, not placeholders in the director’s design.
In all his films Kubrick is wrestling with big issues. War and peace, free will, individual disintegration, science future, criminality, the decline of society. Kubrick is a consummate filmmaker, but he really cares about the issues too.
Nolan’s concerns are somewhat interesting — time distortions, tricky plot moves, remaking earlier art, but there is no heart I can discern. no dialog I can remember.
Perhaps audiences don’t care about those things as much today in favor of spectacles, which Nolan can deliver.
Though I don’t find The Odyssey trailers promising in that regard.
Lest Nolan decide to set himself loose on the Mahabharata next: Arjuna at Draupadi’s Svayamvara hefted the bow few could lift, strung that bow but two could string, drew this bow only one other could draw, took aim at the circling fish above by means of the reflection in the pool below and fired his arrow right into Christopher Nolan’s tiny kyklops dangling there whizzing into the pool — ouch, what a pisser!
When I watched “Dunkirk” I hoped to see a big war movie like “The Longest Day” paying tribute to a heroic episode in history.
Instead I found a hodgepodge of Nolan concerns including his homage to “Alien” — a film he required his crew to watch before the project began.
That’s when I realized who Nolan was and all the other movies he had made which I had seen. And why I find him so unsatisfying.
Sports broadcasting sound mixing seems to have taken a Nolanesque turn. The mix on NFL and NCAA football, both radio and television, has tended lately to put the announcers behind the crowd and field noises. It’s especially frustrating on radio, where the listener relies on the announcers for description of the actions on the field and all you can hear is the crowd, but you don’t know what happened. With TV, I sometimes suspect the problem is I don’t have a five speaker setup, and the mix is designed for that….
I did see Dunkirk in a theater (I think it must have been about the last time I went to a movie theater) and I had rather mixed feelings about it – some elements were gripping, while others fell rather flat. I have books on my shelves, with pictures of the various evacuation zones. Honestly, I think that the 10-minute long segment of the beach chaos in the movie Atonement – a single uninterrupted take – gave a rather better idea of what it would have looked like to be there.
Sgt. Mom:
“Atonement” was a much better film than “Dunkirk.”
Jim Melcher: ‘I sometimes suspect the problem is I don’t have a five speaker setup, and the mix is designed for that….‘
I have a good soundbar with a woofer — and a 5 + 1 amp powered sound system. I have spent years trying to get sound in many movies (and even some TV series) right — switching between my sound systems. Sometimes that works, but sometimes the voices are still bad. Yes, at 80 my hearing has weakened, but not enough that would cause the voice issues. Recently purchased “Medley Clear” wireless earbuds and transmitter (Avantree) because more movies show up with bad voice sounds. Pain, but I can still hear all the booming sounds (10″ woofer) and other on the surround speakers plus the voices are heard in earbuds.
These comments on the new Odyssey movie has finally helped me understand what has been going on. Maybe Nolan (and the rest who can’t get voice sounds right) should just return to making silent movies — with all the new booming technology blared as high as needed, but no voices…something like that.
I agree with you regarding Nolan films. I saw “The Odyssey” and had trouble understanding everything the characters were saying.
As for “too loud” I wear noise-cancelling headphones when watching a movie at the theater. This is because of a brain injury from 2015. I now have extremely low tolerance for aural and visual stimulation. Even with the headphones I often spend a couple hours in bed recovering after a film.
Family members also find films increasingly loud. When I saw “The Odyssey” with my daughter she wore ear Loops.
The issue with Dialogue seems to be a constant one with modern film. Most modern films are projected with 5.1 or 7.1 like audio. The central channel should have the dialogue, and properly recorded and boosted, the dialogue OUGHT to be audible. Except it rarely is audible, the other six channels and the sub base channel bury the dialogue. I think part of this is because modern Directors/producers view the movie as spectacle NOT story telling. If you are telling a story then the Dialogue and other sound scapes are PART of that process and the goal is to have the audience GET the story line (which is often provided as a mix of dialogue AND of acting). If the film is just spectacle the dialogue is subordinate to the spectacle and so the other 4-6 channels get the win over the dialog. Look at Dennis Villneuve’s Dune 1 and 2 or Lord/Miller’s recent Project Hail Mary. Both require the dialogue to be heard (even though there is spectacle aplenty), and they make sure you can hear it. I think part of the issue is that Nolan is just the wrong director for The Odessey. It’s like having Alfred Hitchcock direct Animal House or Avengers. Yeah he’d do a workmanlike job but it ain’t his shtick. Nolan seems to be trying to go back to the Ben Hur or 10 Commandments type epics without actually understanding what made them work with their audience,
@ Tregonsee314 > “Nolan seems to be trying to go back to the Ben Hur or 10 Commandments type epics without actually understanding what made them work with their audience,”
Bingo.