Open thread 8/30/21
Here’s one of the greatest dance competitions in films. Bob Fosse is already the stylized, slouchy Bob Fosse who later became famous. The very strong Tommy Rall can do anything, anything at all, including ballet. Note that even in the first dance move in the clip – jumping over the scarf – Rall exhibits the “ballon” of a ballet dancer. Ballon is the ability to appear to hover for a split second in the air. Later, Fosse adds some ballon of his own – but not in the opening scarf sequence.
ADDENDUM: A few years ago I wrote a lengthier post about Rall.
Rall and Fosse certainly kill it in Kiss Me Kate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTBrVuEvZbg
If you view this clip by a flickering oil lamp, it’s almost as if they’re moving.
Rall takes it to my uneducated eye. In the YouTube comments:
I read that Bob Fosse referred to Tommy Rall as “The only dancer who ever SCARED me.” Good stuff. 🙂
Also that Rall died less than a year ago.
Glad to learn of Rall however belatedly.
My mother spoke of Nijinsky’s apparent ability to defy gravity in his leaps. I’ve run into that in my reading too.
Nijinsky was a legend in his time, though he went mad later.
I agree that Rall has the edge – even in the choreography, where he leads off most of the challenges. I was watching without sound, an interesting experience, and I’m not familiar with the movie – so maybe there’s a reason it’s choreographed this way?
“slouchy” Bob Fosse…
I’d never read that adjective in a description of him, but it is spot on and now I will never hear his name without thinking of that adjective.
I have seen the Janet Blair/Rosalind Russel version and didn’t know it was later made into a musical. Thanks for the recommendation!
Just watched the clip from “Kiss me Kate.” At first I thought it must have pre-dated Fosse’s slouchy period, but nope. Around half way he starts slouching up a storm. Reminds me of Anthony Newley and Sammy Davis, Jr.
Here’s a video of a different style of dance competition– between two groups of Russian soldiers in the Alexandrov Song and Dance Ensemble of the (then) Soviet Army. The video was made in 1965. What’s interesting is not only the sheer athleticism of some of the movements (not much ballon, but plenty of stress on the knee and ankle joints!), but the way the dance flows back and forth between soloists, pairs and trios of dancers, and both “teams” in the competition. It’s the only dance routine I know of that includes one soldier hopping on one foot while he holds the other leg like a machine gun– and another soldier dancing with a concertina. I have no idea what either Fosse or Rall would make of this style of dance, but it’s fun to watch for its own sake– and the dancers are clearly enjoying themselves too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0fTVnhg7S0&ab_channel=LeonidKharitonov%28%D0%9B%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%A5%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%29
Thanks for this one Neo.
I’m not a Fosse fan, but Tommy Rall was outstanding.
I just finished the “Afghanistan/Bugout” thread and feel compelled to add my own thoughts, more from a sort-of atonement than a belief I have anything to add that wasn’t already written.
As far as I remember I was in favor of going into Iraq and eliminating Saddam Hussein and going into Afghanistan in search of Bin Laden and punishing the Taliban. I think I also bought into the idea that fighting terrorists “over there” may limit terrorist acts “over here.” I remember being excited at the photos of Afghan women with purple fingers after their first free and open elections and I thought educating Afghan women could bring about organic change, from within the country. I was never 100% confident in my opinions; more like 60%/40%, and I knew it was an extremely risky gamble that could result in tragedy and devastation to many. But, if successful, it could lead to brighter futures for many, many more.
As our mission began to look more and more like nation building I grew concerned and wary. Although I sometimes thought drone strikes were necessary, the extra-judicial nature of some of them caused me grave concern; especially where U.S. nationals were concerned. I don’t remember precisely when, but years ago I had decided our involvement after the first, 18 months, or so, was an error and could not foresee any non-disastrous way we could disengage. I was opposed to continuing to engage but also believed disengaging would lead to tragedy. Cutting our losses would be devastating, but continuing was worse.
I understand arguments for a military presence in the region, etc., etc., but, the more I dig into root causes the more I am a fan of our original, founding documents and the purpose of the U.S. Constitution and its structure. We are hundreds, thousands of bad decisions, Executive orders, illegal agencies, edicts, regulations and laws… away from the Constitution, its intent and structure, but piling on more abuses is like trying to extinguish a fire with gasoline.
As a Conservative I believe in following the U.S. Constitution. Congress declares war and appropriates funds to fund wartime activities. …”but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years…” That means, after two years it should come up for debate again. And Congress should have to raise the funds for their wars through taxation, not printing fiat notes of diminishing value.
There is a clear, and very important, separation of powers between the commander of the armed forces, declarations of war and funding of wartime activities.
If it’s noble and good to educate Afghani women and curb human rights abuses in that nation we Americans are free to support that cause through a myriad of charities. Many of the Americans currently there are their voluntarily, working towards such things. There are Christian missionaries there, etc. They were also there before 2001.
Separation of powers and checks and balances are not only crucial in a nation of free women and men; without them a collapse to tyranny is inevitable.
Keep government out of charity, religion, education, science. As free Americans we can support all those things. Americans have been doing such things in foreign countries since the founding. The U.S. Constitution is designed to limit the federal government’s reach. Conservativism is at odds with government policies to oust religions and/or governments from foreign lands. If we are attacked, Congress declares war. The President leads our troops and petitions Congress for the funds to support his plans. If Congress and/or the President wish to continue in that venture beyond two years then do it all over again, giving we, the people, the ultimate say by voting them out if we disagree.
huxley,
When the topic of gravity defiance in dance came up before I wrote about my difficulties in learning the technique with my jump shot in basketball. I have never been particularly adroit and mimicking physical movements from watching others and it took me a long time to figure out. It was trial and a lot of error until I accidentally did it once, and then muscle memory locked it in.
It amazes me how quickly contract players in Hollywood musicals could memorize routines by watching choreographers.
huxley; Rufus T. Firefly:
I believe it was Nijinsky who said something like, “It’s easy; you just jump and pause at the top.” Ha! But it does involve a sort of “freeze” of the pose at the apex of the jump.
I can’t vouch for ballet, but in basketball the trick is to move your arms and hands to shoot the ball just as gravity is pulling you back to earth. The motion through the body from feet to hands gives an illusion of pausing in mid-air.
A few years ago I wrote a lengthier post about Rall.
Thanks for posting the link to your write up on Rall. I don’t recall reading it back then. Although I’ve seen it many times, I rewatched the video of the dance competition from Seven Brides. One of my favorites. Hard to believe someone didn’t at least shatter an ankle! And I listened to your link to him singing. A great voice!
Some folks are just excellent at everything they attempt!
Nijinsky’s leap
The ballet [Le Spectre de la rose] became famous for Nijinsky’s leap through one of the two large windows at the back of the stage. The height of the leap was an illusion though. Nijinsky took five running steps from the middle of the stage and leapt through the window on the sixth step. The skirting board (base board) under the window was very low, giving the illusion that the leap was higher than it actually was. Behind the set, four men caught Nijinsky in the air and put warm towels on him. No one in the audience saw Nijinsky land. It looked like he would soar on for all time. The illusion was helped by the conductor in the orchestra pit who held the penultimate chord. In doing so, the leap was given a sense of great length and height.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Spectre_de_la_rose
Rufus T. Firefly,
Congress has the power to declare war but there is no requirement that they do so. The guys that wrote the thing engaged in three foreign wars without a “declaration of war” (i.e. the Quasi-War with France (1798-1800) and the two Barbary Wars (1801-05 & 1815)). If Congress authorizes the use of force and is willing to pay, they have “declared” war.
Also the other side gets a vote regardless of what Congress says. I believe we are in a war with Iran and have been since 1979. We had them surrounded before that POS Iranophile Obama screwed it up.
Clapton Is God.
Chases Eagles
I know some of the Founders who held positions in the federal government after the founding skirted the Constitution. That doesn’t make their actions correct.
We have not been at war with Iran since 1979. There has been no declaration by our side. Let some Congressman propose it, then put it to a vote. If the vote passes, raise taxes to fund it. Then we’ll see what the American people think in the next election cycle.
Until now, I had no idea about Rall and only recognized the name Fosse as a choreographer. Thanks for opening my eyes, neo.
Rufus T Firefly,
“I think I also bought into the idea that fighting terrorists “over there” may limit terrorist acts “over here.”
It did. Demonstrably.
“I don’t remember precisely when, but years ago I had decided our involvement after the first, 18 months, or so, was an error and could not foresee any non-disastrous way we could disengage.”
It’s true that nation building was a flawed and gravely mistaken idea. However, putting the rogue and enabling nations on notice, that overt and covert support for terrorism was no longer acceptable was not a mistaken effort. But our involvement was stillborn, once the media and democrats sabotaged that effort, we were locked into a self-defeating process.
“Rogue states never turn out to be quite the pariahs they are deemed. They are only able to cause, or at least threaten to cause, mayhem because they enjoy the covert support – usually by means of technology transfers – of one or more major powers within the charmed circle of global ‘good guys’. Margaret Thatcher
“Clapton Is God.” Griffin
Didn’t John Lennon already claim that title?
Geoffrey Britain,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNt4NIQ7FTA
Fight the power!
neo,
You may have linked this couple reacting to the Bee Gees before but here is another one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8AqXT9r0Lo
Geoffrey Britain,
I agree that fighting and taking out terrorists in foreign lands may have lessened attacks here, but that doesn’t mean we ignore the Constitution.
Listening to U.S. citizens’ conversations and incarcerating anyone who says something deemed bellicose might also reduce crime, but that’s not how we do things. Is our goal maximum freedom, or maximum safety?
When I worked in Singapore I felt much safer walking out of Dan Ryan’s Chicago Grill late at night than I ever did walking out of any of the establishments along the eponymous expressway named for Mr. Ryan in Chicago. But I’d rather live in Chicago than Singapore.
Re: Clapton is God…
Griffin, Geoffrey Britain:
I remember seeing that in a thin paperback book, titled “Graffiti Lives,” in 1969 — back when graffiti was mostly crude lettering on walls. “Clapton is God” was common in London. “Frodo Lives!” was popular too.
There was one other example from the book I remember because it took me a while to work out the humor:
_____________________________________
MY MOTHER MADE ME A HOMOSEXUAL.
[Reply]: IF I GET HER THE WOOL, WILL SHE MAKE ME ONE TOO?
huxley,
Yep, that was my way of saying that people like Eric Clapton and Van Morrison are far more rock and roll in their seventies than idiots like the Offspring and the Foo Fighters are today.
Nothing says rock and roll like blindly policing and enforcing absurd government diktats.
Clapton and Morrison are anti establishment.
Ah, the wily Griffin is too subtle for us!
huxley,
Nah, I was just in a hurry and wanted to post something quick. Didn’t even think anyone would get it.
I do think it’s interesting that elderly rockers like Clapton, Morrison and Jagger have been the one rebelling while the younger generation is supine before their government overlords.
@Rufus:
Dan Ryan’s! First I find myself agreeing with your earlier post here, and now you go yanking on the memory thread.
It was a sad day when the Hong Kong Pacific Place Dan Ryan’s shut down a few years ago. Piped big band music in the bathroom — what’s not to like? They’re still going at the other branch across the harbour:
https://bayshorepacifichospitality.com/index.php/our-restaurants/dan-ryan-s
Just googled DR Singapore and got a surprise. Weirdly I’ve stayed twice at the St. Regis in SG (last time about 10 days before the Wuhan Lockdown kicked off Covid Mad Times) and never noticed that there’s a Dan Ryan’s practically next door despite often walking up the road to the Tanglin Mall and Tudor Court.
Re: Hurricane Ida…
I once lived in and loved New Orleans, so I track the hurricanes.
My remaining NOLA friends got out and are now safe in Atlanta. The worst damage was west of the city in small towns. It’s not a repeat of Katrina. The new levees held, so far.
The big problem is that the main tower went down with all eight transmission lines so there is no electricity to the entire city (except the French Quarter which apparently has a separate arrangement for power) and much of Jefferson Parish. It may be weeks before power is restored.
There were plans to put the power lines under the Mississippi River for such an eventuality, but well … New Orleans is not the most proactive city. At least the current mayor is not obviously stupid and corrupt.
The city didn’t declare a mandatory evacuation because that would have required the city to arrange for transportation for those without. Fortunately, as I say, this isn’t Katrina and the levees held. There may be significant loss of life to the west, but not the city itself.
It’s not clear when my friends can return to their home.
@Huxley:
Best of luck to your friends.
Mississippi… One Mississippi is plenty… I wonder how long before the Corps of Engineers is so woke that they forget how to manage the River? Could get interesting.
Zaphod:
Well, New Orleans did learn something from Katrina. It’s now illegal to leave one’s pets behind in an evacuation.
A minor horror of Katrina is that people left their pets behind and the animals starved.
Or do-gooder PETA types roamed the city afterward and tossed bags of pet chow into abandoned houses just in case and ignited a plague of rats in those neighborhoods.
Many decades ago I went to HS in NOLA. Back then the power company had an arrangement to provide lower cost mass transportation so “poor” people could get to work, and the under funded portion was subsidized in people’s utility bills. Thus two trolley lines and quite a few electrically driven overhead wire bus lines were in place, augmented with diesel powered busses where it did not pay to run electricity. This arrangement probably also smoothed out the daily power demand cycles, so beneficial for power generation overall.
I don’t know the status of powering busses now, but it is thus possible the electrical outages will also impact some measures of commuter functionality, in addition to the usual needs for electric power.
R2L:
Another problem with the absolute power outage in New Orleans due to Ida is that the water and sewage services are affected and now iffy. Plus I understand there’s a heat wave coming.
Not a recipe for Big Livin’ in the City.
There are at least 1000 homeless stranded in New Orleans and some number who stayed behind to watch the homestead.
During Katrina the city police actually had orders to collect guns from such citizens.
@ Rufus “I just finished the “Afghanistan/Bugout” thread and feel compelled to add my own thoughts, more from a sort-of atonement than a belief I have anything to add that wasn’t already written.”
You say it all very well. Thanks for your eloquence and insight.
AesopFan:
I admire your persistence in keeping slightly old topics alive! As well as what you say and your cites.
(I don’t trust my memory, much less someone else’s. So cites, quotes.)
Another aspect of Ida … As it happens, Ida happened on the 16th anniversary of Katrina. (I can’t believe that!)
I remember Katrina and that was the beginning of the end for George W. Bush. There was the tiniest crack in his armor for showing insufficient empathy for New Orleans, then for letting the city and state handle the emergency themselves — as proper — until it was obvious what a cluster NO and LA were. So send in FEMA, the Coast Guard, the National Guard, etc.
The media and Dems hammered and hammered on Katrina and that was where W.’s numbers began to slide.
I understand many here don’t care for Bush 43, but Katrina was hardly his fault. If Bush had overruled the city and state, he would have been in trouble for that.
@ huxley – Speaking of keeping old posts alive, tcrosse gets the win today:
“If you view this clip by a flickering oil lamp, it’s almost as if they’re moving.”
I agree with you about Bush & Katrina; some of the nonsense the MSM was pushing is the same they keep on shoveling with every Republican president: whatever they did would be called wrong; the Democrats keep alternative headlines and stories in the files for every possible contingency.
Here’s hoping your friends remain safe.
@ Zaphod “One Mississippi is plenty” –
We used to count off seconds as “one mississippi, two mississippi, three missississipi, four”
Aaannnd – was checking to see if there is any credible back-story (it’s all speculation), but of course people have written songs about it!
Mac Powell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh1BVdn15go
https://www.songlyrics.com/mac-powell/mississippi-lyrics/
Kind of catchy.
@AesopFan:
Bingo. Counting seconds is what I was alluding to elliptically in passing. I do seriously wonder how long before wokeness and rising incompetence causes troubles with flood management in the Mississippi Basin.
(Example of kind of wokeness danger I’m thinking of: There was a serious flood in Brisbane Australia in 2011. A dam had been built years before specifically for flood control and not for domestic water supply. Idiots started to believe their own Global Warming nonsense and decided that the future would be one of constant water shortages, so kept the flood control overflow dam full — with predictable results when it deluged rain.)
I like the song! Miss road trips and blasting it out. Also guaranteed to annoy all the right people.
Zaphod, AesopFan:
I don’t know how well the Army Corps of Engineers handles the Mississippi, but I know when they started. All those levees and flood management efforts came after the Great Mississippi Flood of 1927.
Not that many people died, but it was serious as a heart attack. Seven hundred-thousand homeless. Damages were close to a trillion dollars, wiki tells me, in today’s money.
Randy Newman wrote a great song about it:
____________________________________________
What has happened down here is the wind have changed
Clouds roll in from the north and it start to rain
It rained real hard and it rained for a real long time
Six feet of water in the streets of Evangeline
The river rose all day–The river rose all night
Some people got lost in the flood
Some people got away alright
The river has busted through clear down to Plaquemine
Six feet of water in the streets of Evangeline
Louisiana, Louisiana
They’re tryin’ to wash us away
They’re tryin’ to wash us away
Louisiana, Louisiana
They’re tryin’ to wash us away
They’re tryin’ to wash us away
President Coolidge come down in a railroad train
With a little fat man with a notepad in his hand
President say, “Little Fat Man, ain’t it a shame
What the river has done to this poor cracker’s land”
–Randy Newman, “Louisiana 1927”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGs2iLoDUYE
Oooh – now when my wife calls me a schlump i can tell her I’m “stylized slouchy like Bob Fosse”
Thanks Neo!
BenDavid:
Glad to be of help! 🙂
I understand many here don’t care for Bush 43, but Katrina was hardly his fault. If Bush had overruled the city and state, he would have been in trouble for that.
The way the Bush personnel operation worked (in co-operation with Senate Republicans), the Federal Emergency Management Agency was placed under the direction of one Michael DeWayne Brown. He’d received that position at the recommendation of his predecessor. He’d previously held the position of general-counsel to the agency. He received that position God knows how, as he’d quit practicing law about a dozen years previous and spent most of his professional life as the staff director of an association devoted to grading Arabian horses. (The board of the association eventually got sick of him for good reasons or bad and told him to submit his resignation). He had zero background in civil defense, security services, or logistics and his executive experience consisted of supervising a two-digit staff. This, in an administration that had put the term ‘homeland security’ into everyday use.
Some of us inclined to be congenial to Bush were flabbergasted by that. The best Brown could do would be to stay out of the way of career employees. However, the agency was bound to suffer from entropic tendencies with a man like Brown in charge, though it’s not clear how decisive these were in influencing outcomes. The published e-mails between Brown and career man Marty Bahamonde were grossly amusing.
Then you stop and think about it, and you realize a lot of Bush’s professional life in business and politics had been built on connections and people skills. Brown’s position there was a manifestation of Bush’s shortcomings made systematic.
I don’t recall there was any delay between the event and the arrival of FEMA. It’s just that FEMA had at the time about 6,000 employees to cover the whole country and relied on local agencies for most of the legwork. I used to follow a blogger named Lane Core. After the botched evacuation of New Orleans, he publishes a photo taken of a parking lot of the New Orleans school system. All these buses, of which you could see maybe 10″ of each peaking out over the water line. Label, “The Ray Nagin Memorial Motor Pool”. Dear New Orleans, so appealing and so sorry at the same time.
@ Art Deco > “a lot of Bush’s professional life in business and politics had been built on connections and people skills. Brown’s position there was a manifestation of Bush’s shortcomings made systematic.”
All presidents have the same problem, it seems to me: they appoint people they know, or who are recommended by people they know, and who function in ways that they are comfortable with.
It’s a bad methodology, most of the time.
Personnel IS policy.
As we’ve seen with Austin and Milley.
I’ve decided to withhold their military titles, because they don’t deserve them.
@ Zaphod @AesopFan: Bingo.
Either great minds think alike, or we’re both too old.
I did like the song, though.
Perhaps too late … but we never addressed Fosse’s place in the dance pantheon.
We’ve established he was slouchy and that he could go head-to-head (short of an excellent balloon) with Tommy Rall.
But how good was Fosse as a dancer? How close did he come to the “new Astaire”?
huxley:
Fosse was a dancer when he was fairly young, but he achieved his real fame as a choreographer.
I don’t care for most of his work, although I think he’s good in this clip and several others. Most people like him more than I do, however.
He can’t hold a candle to Astaire, in my opinion.