Immigrants and need
A fight is going on over a bill that would reduce welfare payments to non-citizens who want to become citizens:
The Trump administration is now on the clock to finalize one of the biggest changes to legal immigration policy in a generation, after the official comment period ended Monday on a plan to require immigrants to show they aren’t a public burden if they want to extend their visas or get on the path to citizenship.
Immigrant rights groups and other Trump opponents mounted a feverish last-minute push to try to derail the proposal. They submitted tens of thousands of comments calling the plan misguided and racist and warned that it would keep needy immigrants from visiting doctors and leave children hungry because their parents fear signing them up for free school lunches, lest they lose their chance at citizenship.
The president’s backers said they expect Mr. Trump and his team to finalize the proposal. If anything, they said, it doesn’t go far enough to crack down on what appears to be rampant welfare use by noncitizens and their children.
New immigrants have often had a rough time financially, but in the past they had to rely mostly on the help of relatives and/or private relief agencies, the latter often financed by the financially successful previous immigrants from their countries. Even with that help, it was often a very bitter struggle, especially for the first generation. However, that process meant that most people who came here didn’t expect to be given everything and knew they had to work hard, and for the ones that found it too onerous there was always the option of going back (before 1920, the number of immigrants to this country who ended up returning home is said to have been 30%).
Now the government and welfare have taken over much of that function. The current statistics:
The center [for Immigration Studies] released a study this month calculating that a staggering 63 percent of households led by noncitizens use at least one welfare program. The rate for households led by native-born Americans is just 35 percent.
Those are pretty high figures for both non-citizens and citizens, but the non-citizen figure is nearly double the citizen figure, which is rather telling (I’m assuming these are figures for legal immigrants, but nowhere in the article does it actually make that distinction). However, the figures are high because they include certain things we don’t necessarily think of as welfare programs, such as tax credits:
In its official filing, the department estimated that about 20 percent of noncitizens receive food stamps or public housing assistance.
[The] 63 percent figure includes other programs such as tax credits or nutrition assistance under the Women, Infants and Children program, and includes households where the children, who often are citizens, receive benefits such as Medicaid.
Those would not be targeted by the rule, nor would American parents who adopt special-needs children from overseas and apply for Medicaid benefits to help with their care.
The article mentions that a law was passed during the Clinton administration that was a milder version of the one being considered now, but the Clinton law has been very rarely enforced. The currently proposed law:
…would add food stamps, public housing and long-term institutionalized care to the list of potential public charge grounds. Disaster relief, assistance to immigrants serving in the armed forces or their families, and emergency medical care would not count against an immigrant.
The attacks on this proposal follow expected lines, citing cruelty to immigrants and a chilling effect that would cause them to not seek needed services.
I’m not sure what I think of this one. Food stamps for a newly-arrived immigrant family—legal immigrants, that is—does not seem like a bad idea to me. Perhaps food stamps for non-citizens should be time-limited. I think that far more important would be to stop the flow of illegal immigrants—the wall and other measures—and to restrict birthright citizenship to the children of legal immigrants as well. Those two arenas are where the more major problems arise.
In the end, the questions are basic ones regarding immigration, questions that comes up again and again: what do we owe new arrivals to this country? Howe many are reasonable to take in, and who will they be? How can we best assure they ultimately become contributing and productive residents and/or citizens rather than a drain on public finances, and how soon after their arrival does this need to happen?
Food stamps for a newly-arrived immigrant family—legal immigrants, that is—does not seem like a bad idea to me.
great… then you know that 63% of them get on welfare, and never paid a dime in
and the people who did, well, they have their money diluted, dont they?
oh, wait. thats you in your old age..
but then again.. your gone.. so are the people who decided to hate men and have few kids
Turns out that the idea to hide eugenics by liberating women from their children and the future, so the people they would produce, are gone, and HAVE TO BE REPLACED WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT!!!
your irreleveant… which is why they are gonna take your money and keep bribing the new people until they can finish the job.. no?
the discussions below is from 1995.. got that?
they knew women in the west under eugenics sanger,self exterminated
the whole issue on border is the left knows this, and you dont (or refuse to believe it)
Replacement Migration: Is It a Solution to Declining and Ageing Populations?
http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/population/publications/ageing/replacement-migration.shtml
since we cant recover, we have crossed the line it doesnt matter if they admit it now, even openly think on that. and think how long everyone denied it till i said, it would be TOO LATE [because there is a lag that by the time you FEEL it, your screwed]
all they are doing is bribing the people coming in so when the numbers flip, well, they will vote to stick you in an oven, take your property, etc.
[edited by n for length and insulting content]
Artfldgr:
You don’t seem to read the posts very carefully, nor do you seem to read all the comments addressed to you. Or, if you read them, you often seem to ignore them.
In the post I already explained what that 63% figure means and what it includes, such as tax credits (which are a big part of it) and Medicaid for children who are born here and are therefore citizens.
In my previous comment addressed to you I also have explained that personal insults are unacceptable in the comments—and I have explained that to you many times before. It is a general rule for all commenters.
It is flat wrong to supply legal immigrants anything, and surely the same applies to the millions of Los Ilegados. The Guatemalans and Hondurans are like Californians; they bring their broken, irrational, unsuccessful ways with them when they migrate, and impose that failure of thought and discipline on those about them, the long-suffering middle class that, in the case of the trans-border migrants, is expected to support them indefinitely in their precious needs.
We need able people as immigrants, not perpetual dole-eaters. Two-thirds (63% is close enough to 67%) are parasites, perpetual parasites, and this does not include Los Ilegados, who are necessarily not accurately countable, but who are also sooo needy. Brings tears to my eyes, just like the baby mommas’ plights in our inner cities.
We will one day have the same outburst as today’s French Yellow Jackets, and our governing, tenured elites will quiver. Being American, we will not descend into the perpetually stupid ways of the various French revolutions. The French never have gotten it right; the French Revolution of 1789-1799 (ten years!) ended in Robespierre and multiple decapitations, to be followed by Emperor Napoleon, and so on.
From some of the comments on this issue over the last few days, my impression is that the old requirement that immigrants had to have a sponsor, someone here in the U.S. who will guarantee that they won’t become a “public charge,” is no longer being enforced or has been eliminated by law.
I wonder if there still is such a requirement?
The 1965 immigration law, thanks to Ted Kennedy, changed the laws that go back to before the welfare state. Immigrants used to require a sponsor who pledged to cover expenses incurred and not paid by the immigrants. Minnesota is full of Somalis who are on welfare. They just elected their own Congress person.
In 2016, $67B was spent on the earned income tax credit, and 3M of the filers were from California. That’s about 7.5% of the CA population receiving $2.4K on average, though the max payout is well above $6K. My understanding is that all illegal immigrants are eligible, but must file a return (with EIN or phony SSN).
Immigrants may declare children living in other countries as dependents which usually increases their EIC amount. If they are living Mexico City for example, the IRS actually confirms their existence. If they are declared to be living Chiapas for example, then the records don’t exist, and the IRS honors the claim without confirmation.
“I also have explained that personal insults are unacceptable in the comments – and I have explained that to you many times before.” neo
Why should he listen, absent consequence? Off the top of my head, I’d guess he berates our intelligence at least every third comment.
Only occasionally capable of brevity, he mistakes disinterest with long winded, rambling, disjointed commentary for personal rejection and then returns that imagined disrespect with insults to our ntelligence.
And no, in regard to this, I don’t care that he claims a mental disability. Mental disability is a personal obstacle not an excuse to impose on others, much less offer insults.
Legal immigation is a privilege that is earned through meaningful participation that contributes positively toward the welcoming society.
A sincere attitude of gratitude is a requirement for demonstrating the immigrant’s worthiness in being granted the privilege of immigration.
Immigrants have to pay their dues. when 1/3 left in the past we got to keep the good ones and the dreck left. we have enough of our own dreck that live off of hard work, we don’t need anymore.
I was infuriated at the news, out in the last couple of days, that the GAO has found that USAID has payed out $27 million in U.S. taxpayer dollars over the last four years for what are, in effect, “nice try” CARE packages for Central Americans who we had deported, in order to “ease their re-integration” into their home countries. (I presume some Lefty do-gooder—crying sad, sad tears somewhere in the USAID bureaucracy—came up with this idiotic giveaway.)
This $27 million should have gone for the needs of U.S. citizens, but, instead, it might as well have been shoved down the nearest crapper.
Can you imagine how many other millions and millions of taxpayer dollars are wasted on other such projects that we never have any knowledge of or hear about?
See https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/07/americans-billed-27m-fund-reintegration-gift-bags-deported-central-americans/
My give a damn was busted decades ago. People from failed states have absolutely no legitimate reason to invade our borders. Want entry? Go through the legal process to enter. Once you have legally gained entry, no welfare. Work your fingers to the bone in order to be a productive resident. Learn American English, learn about American history (warts and all), learn about what it means to be a responsible member of a republic. Otherwise, STFU and GTFO.
I am hardcore on this issue, illegally entry, if caught, deserves a swift death sentence. We don’t need a wall, we need drones and snipers.
A sponsor is still required for immigration by family unification. Immigration by the diversity lottery, investment, adoption, and several other methods do not require a sponsor.
Focus on illegals. There is more political will there, and diluting efforts will mean that we again, one more time, get nothing. Conservatives too often object if they can’t get everything they want, acting if that is somehow a matter of principle.
“I am hardcore on this issue, illegally entry, if caught, deserves a swift death sentence. We don’t need a wall, we need drones and snipers.”
I was with you up to here…but I’m probably not far behind.
But yes…there is no basic human right to enter another country in any way except by the legal means that country devises.
Oh…Boss it looks like someone ran off with the “edit” button.
Jus’ sayin’
An essay from Victor Davis Hanson covers several fronts, but this is the relevant one here:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/12/americans-frustrated-with-international-disequilibrium-trade-immigration/
“The shocking thing about the so-called caravan wearing out its welcome in Tijuana was not that Mexican citizens were tired of the chaos of illegal immigrants demanding services of its newfound host country Mexico — but that Mexicans seemed absolutely oblivious to the irony that Americans might feel toward them as they feel to Central Americans.
In other words, both the Mexican government and Mexican illegal immigrants have their own set of asymmetries that they now treat as de facto entitlements:”
“…New immigrants have often had a rough time financially, but in the past they had to rely mostly on the help of relatives and/or private relief agencies, the latter often financed by the financially successful previous immigrants from their countries. Even with that help, it was often a very bitter struggle, especially for the first generation. However, that process meant that most people who came here didn’t expect to be given everything and knew they had to work hard, and for the ones that found it too onerous there was always the option of going back (before 1920, the number of immigrants to this country who ended up returning home is said to have been 30%).,,”
I don’t see what’s so hard, here people. If you want to get into this country you prove you can support yourself. Or you identify sponsors. Simple, no?
AesopFan on December 12, 2018 at 3:19 am at 3:19 am said:
I disagree sir.
“The shocking thing about the so-called caravan wearing out its welcome in Tijuana was not that Mexican citizens were tired of the chaos of illegal immigrants demanding services of its newfound host country Mexico — but that Mexicans seemed absolutely oblivious to the irony that Americans might feel toward them as they feel to Central Americans.
In other words, both the Mexican government and Mexican illegal immigrants have their own set of asymmetries that they now treat as de facto entitlements…”
I can’t generalize but a great many Mexicans don’t like their own government portraying them as perpetual victims of the Estados Unidos. They take a certain amount of pride in themselves that is inconsistent with the victomology.
More than a few Trump fan clubs were founded in Mexico when he refused to let the caravans through our borders. Anybody listening to Spanish language radio and TV along the southern border can tell you this.
And they were wondering where were there own country’s forces? I don’t believe the irony was lost on them.
The 45-year-old burglar broke into a flat in Malmö. He was confronted by the family who lives there, whereupon he grabbed one of the children, a 7-year-old. He then allegedly put his gun in the boy’s mouth.
When the child’s grandmother saw this, she screamed and managed to snatch the child. Then the boy’s father came into the room…
The father “flipped out” and hit the gunman so hard that he lost consciousness and suffered severe head injury…
Then the cops came and threw the father in jail for aggravated assault.
Why?
Cause they are dying out [thanks to feminism and liberalisms] and the replacements have children who will vote…
Just following the UN globalists on repalcement migration…
want to know why the dems are so crazy with trump and the border?
can you imagine what would happen to them IF the numbers were out, and the gaming of them and skewing beliefs was no longer effctive because we closed the border and the population drop for one or two years shows whats going on, that we need over 50 million people to make up for who was never born, aborted, etc.
IF the polity finds out the truth of what the advise they gave for 45 years did, what do you think people will do to people who DEMOCIDED them and their posterity? [and i dont think it matters what color you are if you do this to a group]
158 Million Want to Migrate to USA
Batten down the hatches; the tsunami of Third World colonization has been rising steeply and will get still worse unless Americans quickly find a way to force their government to act in their interests. A Gallup poll found that 158 million people want to migrate to the USA.
These people will not be arriving from successful cultures, but from dysfunctional hellholes. Countries where more than half the population wants to migrate include Sierra Leone, Liberia, Haiti, Muslim Albania, and El Salvador. Their sheer numbers, accompanied by democracy, will allow the migrants to quickly remake their new home in the image of their old one. As Venezuela makes so obvious, hellholes are not hellholes because they lack resources; they are hellholes because of the people who live in them.
whats wrong with feeding the ducks?
whats wrong with feeding the pidgeons?
i guess it dont matter. single women with no children or few, cant see how they are going to fund babies who will get rid of them, and vote them as the source of racism in the WORLD and then what? ovens?
The continuing rise of illegal immigration at the southern border indicates that Fiscal Year 2019 will see the biggest boom of illegal immigration in more than a decade, according to Princeton Researcher Steven Kopits.
In total, Kopits projects that there will be more than 600,000 border crossings next year — a level of illegal immigration that the country has not seen since Fiscal Year 2008, when total southwest border apprehensions exceeded 705,000.
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you would think with somany coming in and having many many children, that the population would have doubled… but its barely moving
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if global warming wasnt a hoax, then they would not want htird worlders making the population go up, would they? all they do is use 1st world resources at 1st world rates… so why replacement immigration if the people who use the most are declining?
why ask questions
juist die fast and get out of the way
From Neo’s posting:
My mother-in-law’s family immigrated here from Hungary a year or two before 1905, when she was born — in New York. But they, or at least her mother, disliked it here so much that they returned to Hungary. After about three years back there, though (IIRC), they decided that after all the U.S. would be a better place for them, and they returned for good.
(They were Orthodox Jewish, and I think my husband’s grandfather was a rabbi. I don’t know how they made their living.)
I note the story out yesterday that some 100 “Honduran Migrant Caravan” members marched to the U.S. Consulate in Tijuana, and presented a few “demands.”
Either immediately admit them to the U.S., or give each one of these fine gentlemen and ladies $50,000 dollars each, so that they could return to their homelands and start a business. Said one of the group’s leaders, “fifty thousand dollars may not seem like a lot of money to you…”
Well, Bud, $50K sounds like a lot of money in one chunk to me.
They also demanded an acceleration of the vetting process from the current rate of 40-100 cases per day, ’cause they’re tired of just sitting around in Tijuana.
I just can’t imagine why we’re not letting these obviously great additions to our country–such high aspirations, too, $50K– just stroll right in.