I wonder if Dr. Krugman and others will make some sort of public acknowledgment that they had gone over the top in trying to pin this on Sarah Palin and/or the Tea Party.
But neither doGods answer letters nor do Nobel Prize winners/Princeton professors admit mistakes.
How can the rantings and then criminal actions of someone who is clearly mentally disturbed be blamed on the political talk of anyone?
My Congresswoman (Kaptur, Ohio-9) is saying the media is to blame for encouraging the actions of Jared Loughner.
Many of the problems of our country and the world do not have easy or even desirable solutions. That should not stop people from trying.
Sometimes bad things will happen to good people. Dealing with adversity brings the cream to the top.
I don’t know how accurate or sourced this material is but according to this, he was most definitely of a liberal persuasion.
I think the situation is becoming dangerous right now. If the liberal media succeed in scape-goating Palin, the Tea Partiers, or the gun rights advocates then I’m sure there will be more politically motivated murder, not less. The victims will probably be both liberals and conservatives as the climate of rage and counter-accusation heats up. I wonder if this was inevitable. As our country becomes more divided, not less, with the election of this divisive President and his allies. It would take just one tangentially political murder to brew up the fury and spittle-soak rage of the liberals. They’ve been frustrated and desperate since November and were simply waiting for any outlet to vomit forth their hate.
I’m exasperated.
I just went to Andrew Sullivan’s site after not seeing anything he’s written in years.
What a surprise – he has a Sarah Palin fetish.
Democrats have used war rooms and used bulls eyes in campaign literature and now it’s all about Sarah.
Nobody is advocating for the killing of Congress folks.
And nobody should take Andrew’s comments seriously.
He is just as irrelevant as ever.
I just read a couple of comments on the latest WaPo story about Loughner’s behaviour. One person said that if only people were nicer to one another things like this wouldn’t happen. It seems like we have a lot of people thoroughly indoctrinated into the hopey changey why-can’t we-all-get-along cocoon. A few years back, some guest on a late night talk show had a T-shirt that said S**t Happens–Deal With It. Maybe we need to start offering courses on this topic. Items to be covered: 1) Schizophrenia is a serious disease that we can’t cure and can’t nice away. 2) There really are people out there who would behead you for drawing a cartoon. 3) If you gave everyone a million dollars, within a year, a certain percentage would be applying for food stamps. The list could go on and on.
I hope the NYT has to pay for the misrepresentation of this tragedy for political points. I’ve watched for years as its interpretation of events have colored foreign reporting and how anyone who deviates from their given wisdom is persona non grata abroad. Bush didn’t hurt our image abroad; he never got an honest hearing. I’ll never forget the reaction of a friend to the 2000 election, almost as if we had elected Hitler. I really want the Times to be publicly humiliated for its distinguished op/ed team. The blogosphere was digging out YouTube and Twitter info on this case, trying to learn and understand. Nobel Laureate Krugman didn’t need to make the effort or even wait 2 days for the facts. The newspaper of record has falsified records about the US for years. It’s time to set the record straight.
its interesting how the newspaper is using insinuation to imply things with no actuality. ie, using what they know abotu how people think to control what they think over informing them.
so they will say “they are investigating his links to a white supremacist organization called X”
yes, such an investigation will turn up no links, but that is not reported so people will think there is a link, or else why investigate, or say so (not realizing that looking at everything and everything would encompass such irrelevant things and encompassing them means nothing in terms of the event but only in terms of the thoughts of the investigators when there is no substantiating evidence leading them)
in this way, the lefties are learning that they who are violent are somehow not violent and beleive the words that give them the excuse to feel the way they want to feel irregardless of validity.
did they really think that they would be immune to violence from their own people? only the leaders of the non violent can claim that.
the language of violent revolution, leads to violence against anyone not just a target.
I wonder if this was inevitable.
of course. since i said a long time ago we were not going to do anything about what we didn’t believe what was happening until we had proof, and the only proof of such would be the finality of the condition, anything less would be denied. That is, in simple terms, the despot aint coming until he has arrived and acted and completed what they are doing, otherwise, they would deny deny deny, and refuse to conclude.
in this way, once a critical condition can be reached the rest is inevitable, and stopping it or reversing it has been prevented (gliechsaltung), because that’s the part they worked on most, which wasn’t very interesting or exciting. so we refused to look as we focused on the more interesting but less meaningful.
America is, or rather was, a state of mind that has to be handed down. broken families and no more tradition and culture passing that down, and you destroy the state of mind that created the nation you love.
Guess which group was the fifth column on that liberating people from life and its purposes? they did it, the innocents clubs destroyed the transmission of what makes us us.
how do you re-educate those raised on lies in which they will die acting upon? by preventing their miseducation in the first place, by being oppressive to the changes that would eventually destroy. and the destructive was taken up with the zeal of a newly discovered and hidden goodness, while its bad was and is completely denied.
kind of wish hux were here so i could point out how exactly the actions of people are conforming to what i said they would.
When the light comes on, the bugs start scurrying. Scurrying in this instance, means projecting blame on conservatives with false victimology. Since Loughner is too gross to be a victim, the victim will be those who were “targeted” by Sarah Palin and other conservative incendiary rhetoric.
Notice how similar and instant the scurrying of the bugs was. But some people are waking up. They are. Not a whole lot but enough. They’re finally getting sick of the shallow and reactionary behavior of liberals. Remember Sean Bielat in Massachusetts. People who hadn’t voted Republican ever were voting for him because he was reasoned and calm compared to Barney Frank.
And we have this on our side: One good hard working conservative is worth 10 liberals. That’s why the tea party doesn’t need to be a majority. In a couple days, the hysteria will calm down and Congress will get back to the business of what is terrifying liberals: repealing Health Care.
Give a liberal or an untrained dog enough leash and they will choke themselves on it every time. In the liberal case, we must be the leash, that is the spoken, written, and repeated truth of the facts of Loughner and the facts of who really speaks the incendiary rhetoric.
Demagoguery hardly leads to positive outcomes. That’s a lesson American right-wingers should urgently learn…
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Sue Palin for indicing political and racial hatred among fellow American citizens!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
if anything good can come out of this, it’ll be a halt to the progress the Tea Party are making and a boost to movement wanting more gun control. It’s about time America moved in to the modern world and realised their right to bear arms does not mean a right to have whatever the hell weapon you want. There’s no need anywhere for most weapons and indeed most people to have weapons. Reduce the numbers of weapons and reduce the ability to get hold of a weapon and you seriously reduce the changes of a massive tragedy like this will loads dead. Have more guns and guns easier to get hold of and you’ll have many more events like this.
Compare the UK to the US – mass shootings in the UK are a rarity – less than once a decade do we see one. Yet they are a regular occurrence in the UK – at least one a year. Even the larger population in the US does not explain it. Bringing in smaller shootings were at least one person is killed and the US is way way out in front in gun related deaths. It’s time they did something about it and stop more innocent people from being killed.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The right wing nutty rhetoric is partly responsible for this tragedy. It empowers unstable nutcases to believe that they have justice on their side. Palin will defend her right to keep using inflammatory language because without it she’s nothing. Same with beck et al
But this should be the moment where America wakes up and makes fox news etc accountable…..
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Sad to say, but all these Tea Party members are absolute nut cases, and to let them own guns is just unbelieveable.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
As much as it pains me to say it, the US right wing nut-jobs, Palin, and the Tea Party have as much to do with this as Marilyn Manson did with Columbine.
Any country that sees fit to make legal for ordinary citizens to carry Glock 9mm pistols and other high-powered semi and fully automatic weaponry should expect the occasional friendly fire incident. Around 15,000 a year, in fact.
Guns, and people with guns, scare me way more than rhetoric
[yeah, Germany and Russia, and china outlawed guns for their citizens, and it sure helped Hitler exterminate the Jews when there were only a handful of handguns during the Jewish uprising. Artfldgr]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Those republicans are lying, of course. secretly they blame gabrielle giffords’ politics for the shooting and the event instils in them a sense of victory (like the smell of napalm in the morning). theirs is an anthropomorphic ideology – the rapture enacted as a political solution. if people suffer it is because they are meant to suffer. it is a vindication.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The comment is free discussions about the Tuscon massacre have been inundated by right wing astroturfers.
As BillyGoat 1 says, this debate is not about Loughner, Palin or the Tea Party. This is about gun control and the fact that American gun laws are utter, utter madness.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
This may be the demise of Sarah Palin and her party but their supporters are so dumb and staring they will probably see this as some unrelated whim of destiny and try to nail the murderer as some sort of Lefty or Marxist and blame Liberals for producing them.
Still her opponents will let this haunt her.
For many of us the events of 1963 come to mind when Lee Harvey Oswald shot John Kennedy – most likely alone, without any conspirators – same sort of country and same sort of atmosphere of bigotry, slander and vitriol.
Some people said Kennedy should never have ventured out on to the streets of Dallas given the poison that was being distributed there about him, his wife, his religion amd his “communism”.
And the same sort of lone man, proclaiming his views to the world – Loughner by internet – Oswald by pamphlets on the street and an interview or two – though it seems Oswald was more confident and expressive than the rather obscure ravings of Loughner – who seems to have discovered logic chains and got high on the idea.
The interesting point in both cases is the question is whether they murdered someone because of their politics, and their opposition to it, or if they were out to fight their own crusade, make their mark on the world, bring down some figure of hatred or great importance, to strike some blow in the fantasy world they inhabited, to elevate and transcend them in adrenalin atmosphere they breathed.
Maybe the political link for them is just a means to an end – it fits the characters into a scheme but the main drive might be a lust for revenge, to strike a blow, or just to make notches on their belt – such is the fucked up world of fucked up men.
Yes, a left liberal pot smoking nut job who loves the Communist manifesto, wants an end to government a la anarchism (pre communist communism), and willing to take up arms to foment a revolution… is the left trying to nail him…
The commenter is WAY too young to have lived in 1963 and describe it…
Kennedy was an anti-communist liberal…
And then comparing and contrasting a man who tried to defect to he soviet union and both inspired by marx as not being lefties..
And the paragraph as to why is completely made up. as I said, why actually learn history or facts when making up stuff is JUST AS GOOD? I guess he doesn’t see the parallel with the French liberals that set those people on fire by accident and these others.
Artfldgr, do you have a gun?
Nice Bob…
Of course there is no proof yet, but we are checking into the possibility that Bob from Virginia as being a pedophile and into bestiality. When we asked him when he stopped, he had no answer we could repeat, and, if he has gotten treatment, we haven’t seen it.
Yep, that reads like a typical Tea Party Activist.
For those of us that were part of the “gun culture” in the 90’s after the Oklahoma City bombing this is quite familiar. The difference here is that we now have blogs and Fox News, whilst the die hard leftist will never see it (or if they do they have their built in defense of it not being true because of where they read it) the middle third of the populace is MUCH harder to fool.
NBC was interviewing someone this afternoon about renewing the assault rifle ban legislation because of this and after a ten minute screed on why it would have prevented this from happening the person being interviewed said Obama doesn’t want any part of a fight to renew it or rewrite it. The amount of disappointment in the anchors “Well, on to other news” was so thick ou could have cut it with a knife.
After every one of this type of incidents you can clearly track a LARGE bump in gun sales and carry permit requests. Too many times have we seen when seconds count the police are only minutes away (and that is if they are well staffed, have very modern communication equipment, and also happen to be close by). The VAST majority of attacks of this type since 9/11 have been stopped by civilians, many times fighting a weaponised individual armed with their will to stop the situation. No one is better equipped to help you than you – you never have to worry that you are on lunch, dealing with some other nutcase and can’t get away, or even just not care about yourself.
I’ve always felt that part of our core teaching in schools should include firearm safety and self defense tactics. Just the simple knowledge of what it means when the magazine was empty and people instilled with the will to fight back saved a great deal of people during this, imagine if everyone there had that same knowledge and ability.
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I wonder if Dr. Krugman and others will make some sort of public acknowledgment that they had gone over the top in trying to pin this on Sarah Palin and/or the Tea Party.
But neither doGods answer letters nor do Nobel Prize winners/Princeton professors admit mistakes.
How can the rantings and then criminal actions of someone who is clearly mentally disturbed be blamed on the political talk of anyone?
My Congresswoman (Kaptur, Ohio-9) is saying the media is to blame for encouraging the actions of Jared Loughner.
Many of the problems of our country and the world do not have easy or even desirable solutions. That should not stop people from trying.
Sometimes bad things will happen to good people. Dealing with adversity brings the cream to the top.
I don’t know how accurate or sourced this material is but according to this, he was most definitely of a liberal persuasion.
http://independentindianpress.com/2011/01/jared-loughner-was-a-liberal/
I think the situation is becoming dangerous right now. If the liberal media succeed in scape-goating Palin, the Tea Partiers, or the gun rights advocates then I’m sure there will be more politically motivated murder, not less. The victims will probably be both liberals and conservatives as the climate of rage and counter-accusation heats up. I wonder if this was inevitable. As our country becomes more divided, not less, with the election of this divisive President and his allies. It would take just one tangentially political murder to brew up the fury and spittle-soak rage of the liberals. They’ve been frustrated and desperate since November and were simply waiting for any outlet to vomit forth their hate.
I’m exasperated.
I just went to Andrew Sullivan’s site after not seeing anything he’s written in years.
What a surprise – he has a Sarah Palin fetish.
Democrats have used war rooms and used bulls eyes in campaign literature and now it’s all about Sarah.
Nobody is advocating for the killing of Congress folks.
And nobody should take Andrew’s comments seriously.
He is just as irrelevant as ever.
I just read a couple of comments on the latest WaPo story about Loughner’s behaviour. One person said that if only people were nicer to one another things like this wouldn’t happen. It seems like we have a lot of people thoroughly indoctrinated into the hopey changey why-can’t we-all-get-along cocoon. A few years back, some guest on a late night talk show had a T-shirt that said S**t Happens–Deal With It. Maybe we need to start offering courses on this topic. Items to be covered: 1) Schizophrenia is a serious disease that we can’t cure and can’t nice away. 2) There really are people out there who would behead you for drawing a cartoon. 3) If you gave everyone a million dollars, within a year, a certain percentage would be applying for food stamps. The list could go on and on.
I hope the NYT has to pay for the misrepresentation of this tragedy for political points. I’ve watched for years as its interpretation of events have colored foreign reporting and how anyone who deviates from their given wisdom is persona non grata abroad. Bush didn’t hurt our image abroad; he never got an honest hearing. I’ll never forget the reaction of a friend to the 2000 election, almost as if we had elected Hitler. I really want the Times to be publicly humiliated for its distinguished op/ed team. The blogosphere was digging out YouTube and Twitter info on this case, trying to learn and understand. Nobel Laureate Krugman didn’t need to make the effort or even wait 2 days for the facts. The newspaper of record has falsified records about the US for years. It’s time to set the record straight.
its interesting how the newspaper is using insinuation to imply things with no actuality. ie, using what they know abotu how people think to control what they think over informing them.
so they will say “they are investigating his links to a white supremacist organization called X”
yes, such an investigation will turn up no links, but that is not reported so people will think there is a link, or else why investigate, or say so (not realizing that looking at everything and everything would encompass such irrelevant things and encompassing them means nothing in terms of the event but only in terms of the thoughts of the investigators when there is no substantiating evidence leading them)
in this way, the lefties are learning that they who are violent are somehow not violent and beleive the words that give them the excuse to feel the way they want to feel irregardless of validity.
did they really think that they would be immune to violence from their own people? only the leaders of the non violent can claim that.
the language of violent revolution, leads to violence against anyone not just a target.
I wonder if this was inevitable.
of course. since i said a long time ago we were not going to do anything about what we didn’t believe what was happening until we had proof, and the only proof of such would be the finality of the condition, anything less would be denied. That is, in simple terms, the despot aint coming until he has arrived and acted and completed what they are doing, otherwise, they would deny deny deny, and refuse to conclude.
in this way, once a critical condition can be reached the rest is inevitable, and stopping it or reversing it has been prevented (gliechsaltung), because that’s the part they worked on most, which wasn’t very interesting or exciting. so we refused to look as we focused on the more interesting but less meaningful.
America is, or rather was, a state of mind that has to be handed down. broken families and no more tradition and culture passing that down, and you destroy the state of mind that created the nation you love.
Guess which group was the fifth column on that liberating people from life and its purposes? they did it, the innocents clubs destroyed the transmission of what makes us us.
how do you re-educate those raised on lies in which they will die acting upon? by preventing their miseducation in the first place, by being oppressive to the changes that would eventually destroy. and the destructive was taken up with the zeal of a newly discovered and hidden goodness, while its bad was and is completely denied.
kind of wish hux were here so i could point out how exactly the actions of people are conforming to what i said they would.
When the light comes on, the bugs start scurrying. Scurrying in this instance, means projecting blame on conservatives with false victimology. Since Loughner is too gross to be a victim, the victim will be those who were “targeted” by Sarah Palin and other conservative incendiary rhetoric.
Notice how similar and instant the scurrying of the bugs was. But some people are waking up. They are. Not a whole lot but enough. They’re finally getting sick of the shallow and reactionary behavior of liberals. Remember Sean Bielat in Massachusetts. People who hadn’t voted Republican ever were voting for him because he was reasoned and calm compared to Barney Frank.
And we have this on our side: One good hard working conservative is worth 10 liberals. That’s why the tea party doesn’t need to be a majority. In a couple days, the hysteria will calm down and Congress will get back to the business of what is terrifying liberals: repealing Health Care.
Give a liberal or an untrained dog enough leash and they will choke themselves on it every time. In the liberal case, we must be the leash, that is the spoken, written, and repeated truth of the facts of Loughner and the facts of who really speaks the incendiary rhetoric.
For an “illustrated primer of leftist hate:
http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/
Gotta love our Michelle!
Notice how similar and instant the scurrying of the bugs was.
yes… it was, it was… as if they, as if they called each other and CONSPIRED to all have the same message, the same big lie, the same target…
but conspiracies dont exist, ever…
thats someting else, like collusion outside the knowlege of others… which what conspiracy used to be
we also don’t have enough, and they finished putting in the laws and signings that will turn things over.
you try to get out of mate in 10 moves…
since the point is that you cant…
yes… it was, it was… as if they, as if they called each other and CONSPIRED to all have the same message, the same big lie, the same target…
Kinda like the JournoLists had a place where they could coordinate stories and perspectives in secret, isn’t it?
Nah. Never happen.
comments here give a good idea of how we believe… and that many cancer cells will not lead to a cure.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/09/gabrielle-giffords-shooting-rightwing-rhetoric
Yes, a left liberal pot smoking nut job who loves the Communist manifesto, wants an end to government a la anarchism (pre communist communism), and willing to take up arms to foment a revolution… is the left trying to nail him…
The commenter is WAY too young to have lived in 1963 and describe it…
Kennedy was an anti-communist liberal…
And then comparing and contrasting a man who tried to defect to he soviet union and both inspired by marx as not being lefties..
And the paragraph as to why is completely made up. as I said, why actually learn history or facts when making up stuff is JUST AS GOOD? I guess he doesn’t see the parallel with the French liberals that set those people on fire by accident and these others.
Artfldgr, do you have a gun?
Nice Bob…
Of course there is no proof yet, but we are checking into the possibility that Bob from Virginia as being a pedophile and into bestiality. When we asked him when he stopped, he had no answer we could repeat, and, if he has gotten treatment, we haven’t seen it.
Yep, that reads like a typical Tea Party Activist.
For those of us that were part of the “gun culture” in the 90’s after the Oklahoma City bombing this is quite familiar. The difference here is that we now have blogs and Fox News, whilst the die hard leftist will never see it (or if they do they have their built in defense of it not being true because of where they read it) the middle third of the populace is MUCH harder to fool.
NBC was interviewing someone this afternoon about renewing the assault rifle ban legislation because of this and after a ten minute screed on why it would have prevented this from happening the person being interviewed said Obama doesn’t want any part of a fight to renew it or rewrite it. The amount of disappointment in the anchors “Well, on to other news” was so thick ou could have cut it with a knife.
After every one of this type of incidents you can clearly track a LARGE bump in gun sales and carry permit requests. Too many times have we seen when seconds count the police are only minutes away (and that is if they are well staffed, have very modern communication equipment, and also happen to be close by). The VAST majority of attacks of this type since 9/11 have been stopped by civilians, many times fighting a weaponised individual armed with their will to stop the situation. No one is better equipped to help you than you – you never have to worry that you are on lunch, dealing with some other nutcase and can’t get away, or even just not care about yourself.
I’ve always felt that part of our core teaching in schools should include firearm safety and self defense tactics. Just the simple knowledge of what it means when the magazine was empty and people instilled with the will to fight back saved a great deal of people during this, imagine if everyone there had that same knowledge and ability.