Don’t laugh quite so hard at Laffer: on Medicare, Medicaid, and Obamacare
In the dystopia thread, commenter “ModDem” (moderate Democrat? modern Democrat? modest Democrat? modish Democrat?) writes:
If the whole idea [of Obamacare] is unconstitutional then I guess you think Medicare and Medicaid are unconstitutional? Or did you not realize they were government run programs like Reagan administration economist Art Laffer who is so dumb he said on CNN yesterday: “f you like the Post Office and the Department of Motor Vehicles and you think they’re run well, just wait until you see Medicare, Medicaid, and health care done by the government”
Ha, what an idiot!
There are many out there who do not know Medicare and Medicaid are government run. And what’s more they are successful and more well liked than regular run private healthcare.
I thought I’d highlight a portion of my response to his/her claims:
…[P]lease don’t report me to the fish police! I’ll be good! I promise!
As for the popularity of Medicare and Medicaid, the poll you linked to is based on the entire system that’s in place now. If you read the fine print, the satisfaction is based on good access to treatment as opposed to managed care plans. But Medicare and Medicaid do not revamp our health care system in the manner that Obamacare would, and they depend on the entire health care system being in place for this access to continue. In other words, even Obama has acknowledged that the cost-cutting needs of Obamacare would result in more rationing (although he hasn’t usually used that r-word, of course). This would put in place the sort of managed care and long delays that have caused problems in Canada and the UK, for example (ever read about the niceties of NICE?)
The Medicare and Medicaid with which people are presently satisfied ride on the back of our present system, and are also subsidized by it. That’s another thing very likely to end with Obamacare.
Oh, and before you get too giddy laughing at Laffer, pay attention to what he actually said (love those truncated quotes, don’t we? They’re so much better than the truth). After speaking about how the costs of Obamacare have been underestimated, he then said [emphasis mine]:
I mean, if you like the Post Office and the Department of Motor Vehicles and you think they’re run well just wait till you see Medicare, Medicaid, and health care done by the government; I mean the single provider I think is a real problem.
Laffer is unquestionably talking about the change in the system as a whole to single provider, which he sees as the hidden goal of Obamacare that will inevitably flow from it, and to a new Medicare and Medicaid embedded in that system. The person he is talking with then responds to him as though she understands his argument as being about the larger change, because she responds by saying single payer won’t happen with Obamacare.
Here, I’ll make it easy for you:
I kinda got it without the extended quote. Who DOES think the DMV or Post Office are well run. Seriously…
Thomass– One’s a customer service nightmare, the other’s consistently broke– and synonimous with work-place shooting sprees.
Sounds about right to me….
My wife and I are on Medicare and it serves us fine. Of course we pay the government $200/month for the coverage. So, it isn’t free; and it doesn’t cover everything, so we also supplement it. We used to pay another $250/month for the supplement (and it would probably be twice that now). Congress eventually changed the law and Tricare (DOD) now covers the supplement.
Fortunately, we have both been established with trusted medical providers for a number of years. Unfortunately, we are contemplating a long distance move to be near family as we age. Given the present climate, we cannot be confident that we will find providers who will accept new Medicare patients.
I have family and friends whose parents had to depend on Medicaid for long term (nursing home) care.
Typically the places that would take them on Medicaid were not the sort where you would really want to spend your last years–or have your parents do so. Other than that I do not know much about Medicaid, and hope I never have to learn.
I’m sure he meant, “just wait until you see Medicare, Medicaid, and health care done [in] by the government”
Despite the faux pas, it appeared that Mr. Laffer at least had a clue what he was talking about.
I’ve seen that pool and similar, there is also one floating around about how wonderful the VA system is too. One of the dems I know asks me how I cope with that. Frankly I don’t – I can show older polls (some not even too old) but all that is easily dimissed.
Up until just a few weeks ago it was understood and any poll on the matter showed that no one liked the systems (especially the VA one). No one who could afford better used them, those that did use them pretty much relied on “supplements” and paying for better care.
I do not know what has changed in those polls (I can suspect, but that is another story) and only one of them coincides with any experience I have had with people. At best you have someone like oldflyer – you probably have also not had any real major illnesses yet either.
I do know where most of the VA one comes from – they polled people who were treated at Walter Reed and I will absolutely agree they do an outstanding job there. But that isn’t primary health care, indeed that is *only* severe combat related injuries.
If for nothing else that this I can tell you the system sucks – no congressional person is going to go on the plan they are going to force on us. Any time those in charge exempt themselves from what is supposedly the best thing for an individual then you can be absolutely certain it isn’t the best. This is true in health care, gun control (they exempted themselves and their body guards – turns out bullets can stop attackers), health standards (they know food is tasty and like to eat), energy usage (air planes and air condition are better than driving around with the windows down), or anything.
Of course the dems have no real answer to that and, unlike polls suddenly showing Medicare/Medicaid and the VS system are the best liked on the planet, it is harder to dismiss without doing major legwork yourself. Unless a counter poll comes out not much I can say about how wonderful it is, other than those telling us how wonderful it is refuse to use it and let the reader decide.
I guess you think Medicare and Medicaid are unconstitutional?
Well, since you ask: Yes, I do think they are unconstitutional.
That said, that particular horse left the stable decades ago. We’re Socialists now, and have been for at least 60 years.
Now we’re simply arguing over how quickly we want to let it completely ruin us as a productive country.
Sorry to burst the liberal bubble but Medicare and Medicaid have some serious fiscal fault lines. Such as nearly $50 trillion in unfunded liabilities that will eventually bankrupt the system and maybe much the US economy. Lets now also forget the inconvenient fact that part of the reason behind the seeming efficiency of these programs is that govt doesn’t perform audits or fraud checks nearly as often as private insurance must do. This creates a hidden cost that’s not apparent in the efficiency studies trotted out by the media.
Some critics say Medicare loses 1 out every 3 dollars to fraud and waste. Fully 20 percent of nearly every state’s budget is devoted to Medicare/Medicaid which will explode under an Obama single payer healthcare system. But why let facts interfere with your delusions?
And just how happy are we with the DMV anyway? And do the Native Americans have much that’s positive to say about the Bureau of Indian Affairs and their govt run healthcare?
And offering a link to Thinkprogress as gospel proof is equivalent to treating Michael Moore as one of Christ’s apostle. Absurd and hilarious.
http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2009/07/does-medicare-have-lower-administrative.html
http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/07/medicares_mythical_administrat.php
http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/bg1849.cfm