Commenter “Molly Brown” writes in the DeSantis thread:
There is a common assumption in many of these comments that if the GOP would just nominate a more ‘mainstream, likeable, whatever you want to call it’ candidate – that candidate will have a chance to sell himself to the ‘moderate, swing, independent’ voters that Trump can’t win.
But I see no evidence of support for “mainstream” candidates, although it was certainly true years ago as recently as 2008 and 2012 (McCain and Romney). But now, for example, there is nothing “mainstream” about DeSantis. He is actually even to the right of Trump in his policies. That is what has allowed the media to demonize him already, before he ever declared his candidacy.
And in fact, the idea that DeSantis is somehow “mainstream” is exactly the line that has been spread about him on the right as a criticism by the Trump forces, something that I described in that recent post: that DeSantis is some sort of GOPe Jeb-light. But look at what he’s done in Florida and you will see that he has been boldly conservative. Plus, when he was in the House, he was one of the founding members of the Freedom Caucus in 2015.
And it’s also an odd thing to say he’s being presented as “likeable,” because another big criticism of DeSantis from the right is that he’s not very likeable – that he’s cold, wonky, etc.. His boosters do not call him “likeable”; they call him smart. He also has a history of fighting back, particularly against the MSM. His “likeability” quotient isn’t all that high, but he is not hated with the heat of a thousand suns by many moderates, unlike Trump. It’s certainly possible that DeSantis could end up being hated just as much as Trump and liked less, but another thing about DeSantis is that a great many people don’t know much about him and/or haven’t yet made up their minds what they think about them. But hated of Trump is baked into the cake for a lot of voters, who also find that Trump-hatred to be a potent motivator to vote in 2024 – even to vote for Biden, whom nobody much likes.
This election is quite different from previous ones. Trump is an unusual candidate, as is Biden. But so is DeSantis. And it’s very very early to tell how it will shake down. I think the vast majority of people will be voting for whomever their party nominates; it’s that group in the middle that tends to decide things. But the days of nominating a politically moderate Republican in order to supposedly appeal to that group are over. And the same is true for Democrats; no moderates can get traction, although Joe Biden sold himself as a moderate in 2020 – despite the fact that anyone who looked at his record under Obama, or actually has paid attention to the Democrats in the last decade and a half, should never have believed it. I don’t think many people are that naive anymore about Joe being a moderate politically.
Just a little while ago, commenter “wendybar” also had this to say:
The naysayers can keep naysaying, and keep voting for the Mitt Romneys and then wonder why we keep losing.
But there isn’t a single Romneyesque figure in the current GOP presidential candidate field who’s doing at all well. I suppose, though, that if the definition of a “Romney” is “anyone other than Trump,” then they are all “Romneys.” But they are not, and in particular DeSantis is not.
In addition, commenter “davemay” wrote this:
Until justice is restored, we can never go back to politics as usual. Trump vs. DeSantis (or whoever else) presupposes that elections are on the level, or even matter anymore. We cannot unsee what we have seen…
Simply, Neo, we are at war. We saw the cities burning, and that WILL HAPPEN again (no doubt there will be an inciting incident that will be used as a pretext for violence so as to ensure a Democrat, or acceptable not-Trump candidate, wins the presidency. Can the Deep State even take the chance of a free and fair election?
I have no disagreement with that, and I believe I have made it clear in the past. And of course “war” is at present a metaphor. And whether elections have been won by Democrats through outright fraud (possibly) or just through “rigging” (definitely) or through both, I also agree that the outlook is dire. But then “davemay” adds this:
To his great credit, Donald Trump exposed the rot and corruption and the sheer diabolical evil of our political class. No one else could have done it. No one else would have the courage to do it and withstand the vitriolic whirlwinds unleashed against him.
Trump exposed the rot by drawing their hatred, and if “no one else could have done it” that’s only because he was (and is) hated the most. But he was ineffectual in stopping it or fighting it, and it continues unabated to this day, with no small success. And yes, I’ve always given Trump much credit for “withstanding the vitriolic whirlwinds,” but he’s not the only strong person in the world. For example, DeSantis has already had plenty of vitriol unleashed against him during his Florida tenure, and I don’t think he’s the only one with similar courage.
What’s more, in terms of preventing voter fraud, Trump has been remarkably ineffective. Not only did he fail to stop it if in fact it’s occurring, but his efforts to right it have landed him in legal troubles – troubles in which so far he seems to be on the losing end. In contrast, DeSantis did a great deal to improve the voting rules in Florida. Most people don’t seem to be aware of this. The details can be found here. And yes, a governor has more control over a state in this regard, and Florida has a Republican legislature to greatly help. But plenty of other states with Republican-controlled legislatures have failed to accomplish what was done in Florida to make voting safer, and it was done in Florida with DeSantis’ leadership. He is well aware of the problem and has the track record to prove it (see also this).
I have no way of knowing who would be the GOP candidate most likely to beat Biden in the general (or beat the person who replaces Biden as the Democrats’ nominee). Neither do you. But I’m tired of this “Trump is the only one who…” business, and I’m tired of descriptions of DeSantis that just don’t conform to his actual history in politics. That is because this is such a vital election. We’ve been saying that for years, but it doesn’t get less true over time; it gets more true.
[NOTE: Commenter “davemay” also wrote that, “Support for Trump is not about a cult of personality. If there is no commitment to truth or justice, then what’s the point?” Support for Trump is not about a cult of personality for some people. I support Trump in the sense that I’ve supported much – in fact, most – of what he did as president, and I am outraged at the lies told to frame him. And I certainly am not part of any Trump “cult of personality.” But some Trump supporters are part of such a cult, and I see it constantly.
And to davemay’s question “If there is no commitment to truth or justice, then what’s the point?” I answer that the point is to restore that commitment. And it will not be restored by misrepresenting the strengths of other candidates or by ignoring Trump’s weaknesses, which have become more apparent since the fall of 2020.]