Government shutdown?
As of now, we have no idea what will happen come Saturday.
My single observation at the moment is that I’m exceedingly tired of the spin that says it’s 100% the fault of a certain side. Both sides are sticking to their guns at the moment. You can think that one side’s position has all the merit and the other side’s all the stupidity and/or knavery, but that doesn’t mean that either couldn’t capitulate and keep the federal government running with no interruption. So if we have a shutdown, it will be because neither side gave in.
[ADDENDUM: Obama’s certainly playing his part, saying he’ll veto a stopgap measure that isn’t just what he wants. I have to say this does not surprise me.
And here’s a link to a quick summary of what a federal government shutdown would involve.]
Why again is shutting down the broken machine a bad thing?
Tesh: it may not affect you much, Tesh, but it affects a lot of people negatively. See this. For example, it will affect states heavily in terms of federal monies and in terms of tourism. All national parks will be closed, and this is a fairly big tourist season coming up. Some economists believe it will catapult us back into an official recession. Of course, it depends how long it goes on.
Well, if it is that DIRE I’m getting out of town on Saturday!
I know there’s pain involved, that’s inevitable, and I’m not immune. There’s pain involved in letting it keep going, too. I’d rather take the former and actually fix the thing. *shrug*
I agree with Tesh. Everyone’s trying to pin blame somewhere. I would rather give credit.
Even if we reach an (inadequate) compromise and avoid a shutdown, there is merit in forcing this conversation onto the public. It’s little different from ignoring a tumor or sexual abuse. The harm increases the longer we deny the problem.
Neo, you can find an economist to tell you anything. “Official” recessions are merely a product of economists’ opinions. The underlying data is barely correlated to the actual decisions faced by individuals and firms. In essence, it is just some factions hoping to maintain their favored status.
Keynes’s theory was successful not because it offered an accurate model of an economy, but because it gave politicians a justification to meddle in behavior. We’re looking at unwinding seven decades of manipulation in order to put the pain where it belongs.
Obama veto would be suicide…
however, compared to the past and what huxley used to say and other ‘reasonable’ people, i wonder how reasonable all this is to them…
that by not acting when reasonable action and that was possible, we all now are facing unreasonable actions from all sides, whether its Obadiah, GOP, or even us, or anarchists, etc..
May 1st is going to be a big mess
what you have now is almost a race war going on silently not really noticed… and the main target does not respond, and so is weak and gets to be attacked.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13353534/Sukarno-and-the-Indonesian-Coup
the army was totally unprepared for an attack
from its political enemies was the most obvious feature of the Indonesian coup. In one night alone, it was to suffer the staggering loss of six of its most senior generals. Never before, in any of the great wars, have six generals been lost in a single night.
kind of like all those generals and politicans that were removed when the plane crashed in russia… and then the film of with the sound of gunfire from the wreck and the man who filmed it, dead in under 24 hours.. took two attempts… the first wasnt good, and he ended up at the hospital, the second was at the hospital.
If successful, Indonesia would
almost certainly have fallen to the Communists, and the perception of world
communism on the march–having conquered three of the five most
populous nations of the world–would have changed the course of Far East
politics, and therefore world politics, for the remainder of the twentieth
century.
if you take the time to read.
you will learn what happens when you clean house…
it also shows what and how things can happen in ANY country. even closed border ones.
mumbai is another example…
in this case your talking 10-15 trucks with people in it!!!
A force of one fully armed platoon was assigned to handle each of the
following five Generals: General Suprapto, General Harjono, General
Parman, General Pandjaitan, and General Sutojo. Special forces of one fully
armed company were assigned to the homes of Minister/Coordinator of
Defense Nasution and Army Minister/Commander Yani.
the attacking parties followed the same general tactics. One-third of the force stood guard on the streets around the house, one-third surrounded the house itself, and one-third entered the house to bring out the victim.
what was the end result?
well, the communists have tried and successfully blackened the name of suharto… heck, hows george washington holding up against similar rewriting?
dont matter what the facts are, or what you do, they rewrite it.
with our borders open, and the fact that many states have been able to send people…
what will happen when shut downs occur, good people go out and march, and provide cover for the same kind of people that do the same kinds of things in history? and when you read, you will read that there were even soldiers who were compromised.
we have been a sieve… and the recent changes have opened us up more..
Obadiah is looking for a crisis that will engage the signing statements and negate elections…
read how things played out in other places.
INCLUDING attempted things in the US…
Neo has a touch of the Chicken Little Syndome, a contagious disorder transmitted by the MSM. Shutting down the Nat’l Parks endangers state economies because of the upcoming tourist season?? It is APRIL every day this month, and gas will soon be 4 bucks.
The National Zoo will close? Why does the USA have one?
The IRS will close? That oughta get Baraq’s attention, but Oh No, he’s gotta see Al Sharpton.
“Some economists think” this could push us into another recession??? Some economists think not.
Baraq will veto a one-week continuing resolution because He won and ain’t giving back any steenking $61 Billion of money he’s borrowing in our names.
What a joke. I am not laughing.
an example of whats common and we can expect:
Sjam, aged 42, was a man whose true identity was known to only a very few people. Sjam’s true identity and function in the PKI organization have now been clearly established. Because of the coup and the extensive interviewing of those involved in it, more is known about the secret party organization of the PKI before the coup than has ever been known about most other Communist parties.
anyone else we know managed and coordinated?
how many?
and what if the man to lead is already in office, but needs only the excuse to power, and not other things? after all, given the way the game is set up now, all that has to happen is enough crisis. and you can see that they dont know what it will be (plausible deniability). they thought the gulf was.
but remember, they have been lying a lot. about the gulf (maybe), about the contrail (turned out to be a tomahawk fired 24 hours after an emp event)… and lots of other things… like stimulus money to pay off outside help.
take some time to read obamas signing statements and such… i mentioned them way before.. and they can be tripped VERY easy by any number of things that are very easy to get over the border now *(see tunnels).
just remember one thing..
they know that whatever is done, has to be so fast, so big, and final… the US is a king… and when you go to kill a king, you better make sure you succeed.
the whole of the indonesian coupe is a lesson in that.
one slipped through, and everything they planned and worked on for years and years went down the tubes.
and because the new man went out and exterminated them… it wasn’t a set back for a time, it was a set back of all time… (blow-back on steroids).
remember this?
there is now emergency powers for health
emergency powers for CO2 levels
emergency powers for food, internet, power, etc
go and take a look at the laws made that they did not report or hem or haw about… signing statements, etc..
the president “may seize property, organize and control the means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, institute martial law, seize and control all transportation and communication, regulate the operation of private enterprise, restrict travel, and, in a variety of ways, control the lives of United States citizens.” Harold Relyea, specialist in American national government with the Congressional Research Service
http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/2009/02/harold_relyea.html
CHAPTER 34–NATIONAL EMERGENCIES
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/50/usc_sup_01_50_10_34.html
as in a chess game, you get all the pieces into place, and everyone can see every move… but once in place, there is a net where each peace protects others and the final movement converges
How did we get to the point where not going further into debt threatens to shut down the economy?
Curtis, I know that’s a mostly rhetorical question…
I maintain that the economy would still be functioning, even if the government shut down (and/or if the dollar collapsed). Sure, there would be upheaval and suffering. But we all still know how to do the work we all do. Farmers will keep growing, accounts will still count, underwriters will assess risk, salespeople will still persuade, the charitable will still find ways to help the weak.
What changes is the means of exchange and/or the regulatory (and manipulative) scheming by the non-productive. What gets shut down is in large measure that which is less useful than is indicated by its current value in dollar terms.
We got here by messing with the pricing mechanism that broad and open markets provide. And our measurements of what we have–which the economists use–reflect those distortions, not any independent underlying value.
“”How did we get to the point where not going further into debt threatens to shut down the economy?””
Curtis
Best i can tell, it’s sorta like not buying your broke drinking buddies beers will be shutting down the party. 🙂
Well, one of the things that may happen WRT federal paychecks – is that military paychecks might very well be delayed. There’s a ferocious discussion over at Ace of Spades HQ about it. The signals about military paychecks have been sorta mixed in the MSM … but I can guarandamntee that delayed paychecks will be a hell of a morale buster for those serving in war zones, especially when their families start missing payments on things like mortgages and rent, and not being able to buy groceries or make car payments. Many of the junior ranks live basically from paycheck to paycheck – there were times when I would finish out the few days before a payday with a $1 in my bank account and a handful of change in my pocketbook. If Obama is trying to play chicken with the Reps by holding military paychecks hostage, I don’t think it will go over really well.
Sgt. Mom –
Who do you think they will blame?
BTW – if there are any couponers in the audience, can I recommend http://www.ocpnet.org/ ? I clip all coupons from 3 newspapers every week and send them to a military base in Japan (USMC). Since August, I will have sent over $9000 in coupons. If even 10% get used, I feel like I’ve helped put that money into a mil family’s pocketbook.
I clip them while “watching” the 3 stooges (my fiance is a fan….).
Freshman GOP Senator Mike Lee (Utah) says President Obama’s inability to get a budget passed last year may have been “deliberate.”
“It was either irresponsible on one hand or deliberate and malicious on the other with intention to bring about a sequence of events that would culminate inevitably in a government shutdown,” Senator Mike Lee said on the Senate floor today.
The so called “wrong” of not spending borrowed money is not a wrong. What is a wrong is the exact opposite with a twist: spending borrowed money that is merely printed. When a child needs a spanking, you don’t not spank the child and let it continue what it is doing. You first stop the offending behavior then administer the spanking.
We are not only spending borrowed money for many illegitimate purposes, the money is basically worthless. Which, of course, is the nefarious purpose of our government which is to erase its debt with inflation. That we must suffer along with the babies-oh well. It’s like that sewer ad. You either take care of your system or you have a real stinker of a problem.
Artfldgr: I’m with Lee; I also think it was deliberate. Although I’m not so sure it was a Cloward-Piven thing, to shut down the government and blame it on the Republicans, it’s certainly possible that was at least part of the motivation. I think the other motivation was simply to not take responsibility for the budget (to pass the buck—literally).
Perhaps, in the end, it amounts to the same thing.
Life by congressional fiat (otherwise known as fantasy):
1. Every American shall have health care.
2. Every American shall have a secure retirement.
3. Every American shall have a nice home.
4. Every American shall have nutritious food, clean water, and a Prius.
5. And . . . every Mexican shall have at least three of the above four.
Because we say so.
I can’t imagine a more stupid shut-down than not paying the military. Wait, I suppose not paying the Secret Service might be even more stupid.
On the other hand, the bears, elk, and bunny rabbits might welcome a vacation from tourists.
What other ill-effects might come from a government shutdown? No flights because the flight controllers stay at home? That would probably help regional airports. Nobody communicating with the Space Station? Oops, maybe another country would step in.
I just don’t see any downside to a shutdown, so long as the Congress, President, and Supreme Court don’t get paid. If they do, but not the military, that’s asking for trouble, isn’t it?
Regulations should fit lean like swimming suits. Let the regulators be the first ones to lose their federal paychecks. And every damn one of Obama’s czars.
JuliB: Wow, what a great program. Essentially everyone says they support the troops, but who really does anything?
Lets begin by getting real….
These clowns in DC are ‘negotiating’ over cutting 30 to 60 billion out of a 3.6 trillion Obama proposed budget and this is portrayed as high drama that anyone with an IQ over 80 should take seriously? Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic is the first cliche that comes to mind.
The reality is that we’re looking at 14+ trillion of debt which is currently rising by about 5 billion a day, a declining dollar (thank you Greenspan & Bernanke), and somewhere around 75 to 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities coming due over the next 30 odd years. Yet we’re in a government shut down ‘crisis’ over cutting 30 to 60 billion in FY 2011? This is insanity-suicide. So pardon me if I am disinclined to believe that adults are in charge in DC nor prone to believe that more than 25% of the public has the slightest idea that a cliched, calamitous iceberg is cresting the horizon.