About that binary choice
Here’s a post that makes the case for voting for Evan McMullin rather than Clinton or Trump.
An interesting option for those who have decided not to vote for Trump or Clinton.
The New Neo
A blog about political change, among other things
Egg McMuffin.
Does he still have his imaginary friend as his running mate?
I would welcome a serious right of center third party alternative. He simply isn’t serious. He’s not comical like “What is Aleppo” but he offers nothing beyond a transitory easing of the conservative conscience. He will never be heard from again on November 9, nor has he contributed one iota to the broader political discourse (debased as it is).
I’m likely to cast my pointless vote (I’m in a pretty solid blue state) for Trump. But if I do suffer an attack of conscience, I’ll likely write in Romney’s name. Egg McMuffin isn’t even on the ballot here (or, most anywhere outside of Utah).
” Yet here we are. An idea remains unbelievable only until a critical mass of people start believing it. “
IOW, people box themselves into a binary choice and it becomes a self-fulfilling trap, as everyone awaits the other to make the “first move”. So much for independent thinking!
Ackler
“Does he still have his imaginary friend as his running mate?”
Her name’s Mindy Finn but I think you’re referring to the fact she’s not write-in eligible in most states? Understood . . .
“I would welcome a serious right of center third party alternative. He simply isn’t serious.”
OK, but he could win Utah. When was the last time a third party option won a state?
I’d say that’s a pretty big deal.
I’m voting McMullin.
“transitory easing of the conservative conscience.”
A lot of people on the right used to believe that voting your conscience was a good thing. That conscience, honor, morals, etc. were important. The clarion call now is “Vote for Trump!” regardless of the fact that he’s an absolutely horrendous candidate and (apparently) an even worse person, conscience, morals, honor, etc be danged.
I’m not saying that’s what you’re saying, but these toss-off comments about conscience . . . Republicans thought they didn’t fight dirty enough against the left in the past, so they got someone who is amoral and wouldn’t know the truth if it grabbed him by the […]. Someone actually wrote recently in these threads that he may be shooting himself, but at least he’s shooting. *sigh*. A soldier who shoots more at himself and his own side rather than the opponent is a terrible soldier.
Maybe he’ll win? But if the polls are correct, the strategy of jettisoning our morals and principles to nominate Trump might turn out worse than any Republican candidate in a generation.
I’m glad I have an honorable alternative.
…a transitory easing of the conservative conscience
I’ll take losing while voting my conscience over losing while violating my conscience.
I’m not sure what I would do if I had thought Trump had serious chances, but I never did.
And even if I had, I vote in California where there is no possibility of a vote for Trump mattering in the electoral college.
Hail to the President…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRdNOQcfp-8
There are 10 presidential choices in Iowa, including McMullin. I won’t make my choice until the morning of November 8. That choice will be determined by the poll numbers on November 7. If either djt or hrc have a lead beyond the margin of error I will vote 3rd party.
I agree with Bill, if McMullin wins Utah’s 6 EC votes it is a big deal simply because its a crack in the wall of the hegemony of the DNC/RNC.. It may be possible he can pick off one other state such as Idaho or Wyoming. In 1824 John Quincy Adams was elected by the House although he did not finish with the most EC votes. Its a weird, mixed up, shook up year. We shall see how weird in 12 days.
IMO, Red State’s argument does not withstand close scrutiny. McMullin can only act as a spoiler, since conservatives alone cannot even throw the election into the House, much less win it..
Big Maq @ 3:55 pm,
Recognizing what has become a binary choice is not creating a self-fulfilling trap. Rather it is facing the reality of consequence.
Well before the primaries was when a third alternative needed to develop. But the vast majority on the right weren’t ready, demonstrated by the fractured voting patterns during the primaries.
The most effective way to stop Hillary Clinton is to vote for Trump. Thanks to wikileaks, we know more than ever just how utterly corrupt the Clinton machine is. Every vote for Trump will help to diminish whatever moral authority or legitimacy Hillary Clinton may have IF she is elected.
One’s approach should be taken that way, as a vote against open corruption. Voting for Mr. Trump is the safest, most prudent, responsible thing to do.
In a nod to the many hilarious riffs on the Mormon Mafia making the rounds today, an offering: William Bolcom & Joan Morris — Lime Jell-O Marshmallow Cottage Cheese Surprise
Interesting proposition; and interesting person. Conservatives certainly would not endorse all of his positions. But, thinking conservatives realize that there is zero chance of getting everything they want. Not even if the huge cypher named Trump wins. At least his statement on SCOTUS nominees is good.
I went to Wikipedia, which has a pretty comprehensive discussion of his positions and strategy. I did not see that he has any big name or big money support.
I frankly don’t know what I will do; although I know for certain what I will not do. I must decide soon since I vote by mail in California. I miss my friendly, rural Virginia polling place–although it may not be the same as when I left.
Geoffrey:
This doesn’t stand any scrutiny:
“Well before the primaries was when a third alternative needed to develop. But the vast majority on the right weren’t ready, demonstrated by the fractured voting patterns during the primaries.”
Sixteen Republicans, Libertarians, Socialists, ,,,,and you speculate about a “third” alternative. Seriously?
Here’s the entire issue, in a nutshell:
Karl Marx wasn’t wrong about capitalism, per se. He was wrong about capitalism as practiced in the Christian west. Capitalism moderated by Christian values believing in the fundamental worth of a person and the value of a country does an amazing job at driving prosperity towards all.
Capitalism without Christina values, without seeing value in each individual person, seeing a nation just a border line drawn on a map, sees the public as merely financial sheep. The sheep are to be sheared and fleeced as necessary for their ruling masters. It became a race to the bottom, to maximize profits by using the cheapest labor, and damn the integrity of society as a whole.
When the populace could no longer afford their products, no worries, bring in even cheaper labor, and repeat. No matter that they were decimating everyone’s ability throughout the system to earn a living. They were getting theirs, maximizing their profits at the expense of all other human dignities, exactly as predicted by Marx.
They gave up their Christian values, which in turn led them to give up their patriotism as well, and they merely worshipped themselves and the almighty dollar.
As far as the intellectual conservatives, we haven’t had any. He was saying that in the article, but it is for a different reason than Douthat believes. They abandoned their conservative principles to fill their pockets, as it was the only sensible thing to do with their capitalism beliefs in the absence of guiding and limiting Christian values.
Now the intellectual conservatives don’t exist in the “elites” anymore. Rather, that mantle has been picked up by the likes of Stefan Molyneux, Vox Day, and others who cry out to the lost Conservative Remnant like a voice in the desert. They aren’t crying “make straight the way of the Lord,” however. At least not yet. It is fascinating watching Molyneux rediscover Christianity over the last two years.
Trump is the man, the new leader of this movement, because he is the only one out of every single candidate running from the GOP that actually believes and espouses a belief in the value and worth of the individual, and in the value of the country made up of those people.
He’s not creating the movement. He’s not even leading the movement, yet, but I suspect that will change. His policy-laden speeches are transforming his candidacy from rabble-rouser to more and more of an intellectual conservative leader day-by-day.
Bernie Sanders captured a lot of attention precisely because he also sparked the belief in voters that he also believed in the value of the individual as more than a tax crop to be harvested. He has too much political theory baggage to ever get off the ground, but he was trying.
The current crop of “elites,” both conservative and otherwise, hold to the premise that they are tax farmers, raising a crop for harvest, and cattle to be slaughtered and consumed.
They’ve forgotten, however, that these cattle are dangerous. They may have kept folks “unaware and compliant” for a good long time, but that may have been only because too many thought that eventually the shallow field of conservative elites would have the intelligence to take the argument to its logical conclusion, see the writing on the wall, and tack back to a better course.
The GWB presidency destroyed that notion. The capitulation to Obama torched it and buried it. We now see the elites for what they are. They are alien parasites content to suck our blood. As long as we’re going to bleed anyway, we figure we may as well take the rest of them with us.
Just when we thought there was no other choice but violence, along comes a human cannonball with golden hair. We armored him up as best we could, pointed him in the direction of all the elites, and turned him loose, with the best wishes and prayers we could bestow on him. We’re following close behind. Should he be destroyed before he strikes true, it will be a bayonet charge.
–Cetera, via the Belmont Club
GB,
If (a very YUGE two letter word) djt can win some of the contested states (and what is contested is based on which polls you trust) it may be possible, though not likely, that no one reaches 270. If McMullin wins Utah’s 6 EC votes he would be in the top three EC vote getters and eligible to be chosen by the House. Yes, its not something I would bet on and will not base my Iowa vote on, but it is possible no matter how improbable. Once again, this is the season of the weird.
Right now, IMO its a blow out victory for the Shrew Queen and Soros, her real running mate/puppet master.
The most effective way to stop Hillary Clinton is to vote for Trump.
Except that ship already sailed, hit an iceberg and is now sinking after Trump killed his last bit of momentum by tweeting attacks on an ex-beauty queen at 2 am.
To switch metaphors, you’re talking about pulling the ripcord when there is no parachute in the pack like that’s the prudent thing to do.
Trump knows this. Trump has taken a break to promote his luxury hotel in Washington DC in the final two weeks of the campaign when he is seriously behind.
Was previously leaning toward suppressing gag reflex and voting Trump before he began his serious slide in the polls.
Now that I know it won’t be close in my blue state, I am leaning toward writing in McMullin (an option here in PA).
Yankee,
Most effective means less than zero at this point. Alas it looks like, but is not USDA certified, that hrc will top 300 in the EC vote. Flogging a dead horse does not make it drink water. 😉
Beverly,
So you as the royal we armoured djt for the bayonet charge or something like that? Friendly advice, turn off Alex Jones. Trump is in it for Trump and will be happy to lose as long as he does not lose big. Loses by a dozen of EC votes and he can cry rigged and launch Trump TV. Lose big 30+ EC votes and the temper tantrum will be epic and highly amusing.
Oh, the brave Donald, we never knew you.
OM,
I wasn’t speculating, I was responding with my view as to why, IMO a third alternative at this time is utter folly. The inability to coalesce behind an alternative to Trump conclusively demonstrated the fractured electorate on the right. No alternative to Hillary can win without Trump’s supporters nor quite possibly without the neverTrumpers.
I suspect the same dynamic would have held true if Cruz had been the nominee. It just would have been more obvious that the GOPe ideologically opposed Cruz as the nominee because they wouldn’t have had the ‘offensively crude’ cover for their opposition.
parker,
If it does go to the House, I’ll be quite surprised if it doesn’t then go to Hillary. No way do the dems agree to anyone else and the RINO contingent and the conservative Mike Lee contingent are IMO highly unlikely to agree on someone. If that eventuates, the RINOs will vote for Hillary.
BTW, if it did go to the House, do they have to choose ONLY from the various candidates?
It was a great country.
It survived many challenges, including a bloody civil war, but could not survive once people decided to use their precious vote for spurious purposes; either to tear down the existing order without regard for the the consequences–or to acquire more government largess with no thought for the longer term. In any case the individual vote was a precious treasure that was spent with too little thought.
Some countries went down fighting; others simply piddled their heritage away. I really fear we are among the latter.
Born during the depression; reaching the age of awareness during WWII; serving in uniform throughout most of the Cold War, I grieve. But, I am old. You younger folk will have to live with the consequences, or reverse the trend. Good luck.
GB,
Assuming the republicans hold a House majority in 26 states, which looks likely, hrc in such circumstances will not win; neither will djt. Again, it is not a likely scenario, but it is possible IF hrc can not top 269 which depends on djt not winning 270, which looks impssible to me, well McMullin I can live with.
Weirder things have happened. But I will not hold my breath.
GB,
They have to choose from the top 3 who win EC votes. Two pieces of advice: learn a bit more about American history and the Constitution.
GB,
If it goes to the House, Lee and rino senators have no vote because the Senate does not vote, because (duh!) the Senate is a separate legislative body than the House. Do you not know Lee is a member of the Senate??? You need to refresh your acquaintance with the Constitution and the ability to know the difference between a Senator and a Representative. Duh.
I am being a bit harsh, but you are displaying fundamental ignorance. Fortunately, ignorance is curable while stupid is not.
J.J. and Old Flier:
We vote by mail in WA.
My vote is cast: McMullin/Finn POTUS/VPOTUS.
Down ticket I voted all republican. Here in WA the progressives have a ballot measure to reverse Citizens United by starting a constitutional amendment. No to that, and to other hair brained schemes, i.e., anyone want a carbon tax?
The speculation over the implausible (but not impossible) scenario of no electoral majority and a decision in the House of Representatives, is fascinating. But so far the commentary is not nearly imaginative enough.
Only 29 states legally bind their electors to the popular vote winner:
http://archive.fairvote.org/?page=967
Utah is among those states. So, if Egg McMuffin did win the popular vote there he would get six EC votes. But…there are many red states not on that list. If after the popular vote it becomes clear there will be no electoral majority for either Trump or Clinton, envision the hand wringing and arm twisting of GOP electors not legally bound to vote for Trump. Note that Texas, Pennsylvania and Georgia are not on the list. If there’s no electoral majority it’ll likely mean Trump won Pennsylvania. Plenty of electors to try to convince.
Remember two things: Presidential electors are usually long standing party loyalists; some may not necessarily be terribly fond of Trump or feel honor bond to follow the popular vote. Furthermore, it would only take seven defectors going to the same person to knock out Egg McMuffin for third place.
And then…the House. Paul Ryan’s ultimate revenge? The epitome of a Kingmaker ? Or, a King? Perhaps he would be the choice of those seven+ electors?
All very unlikely. But if it actually came down to no electoral majority….I could see it happening.
OM
I’m in Washington State too. My ballot has been on my kitchen counter for a week, solely due to indecision as to the top slot. Not voting for Egg McMuffin or What is Aleppo. It’s a choice between Trump, a write in (probably Romney) or leaving the top spot blank.
Stop with the Egg McMuffin bullshit. You die hard trump rabid dogs are in the final analysis merely rabid dogs. Why do you fear McMullin? Why do you fear conservatives who will not vote for the donald? You and your overlord told us you didn’t need our votes, then you told us we were voting for hrc, and then you told us we would to be to blame if the donald lost and somehow we rigged the election.
At best you are confused puppies at worst you are no better than the hrc time for the vagina horde. Live with it, you bought it lock, stock, and barrel. Burn it down and mind that you do not go up in flames..
Feeling a little irritable, Parker?
To be clear, I am not a “die hard Trump rabid dog”. I never have been, as my posts during the primary season reflect. I was for Rubio. By the Washington primary, Trump was the only one still standing. I didn’t bother voting.
Throughout the fall season, I’ve been perpetually indecisive in my intentions. I respect those who cannot bring themselves to vote for Trump for conscientious reasons. But as I’ve said before: if you vote for anyone but Trump (including not voting at all) you are, even very slightly and tacitly, acknowledging you find a Clinton Presidency less distasteful. And that’s okay. An argument from the right can be made for this position. But, just acknowledge it.
As to Egg McMuffin (and no, I will not stop calling him that), I simply cannot take him seriously. He is a placeholder; an everyman; someone hastily drafted by Bill Kristol and his ilk (after David French turned down the dubious honor) to provide succor for vexed conservative intellectuals and…appeal to Mormons. He has no movement, no following of any significance, no organization or structure of note, nothing really. Unless the election does go into the House, he will disappear on November 9 and be long forgotten within a few months.
Ackler,
Please tell me how many electors, outside of the Discrict of Columbia, have not voted for the nominee they pledged for over the last 200+ years. Is it 1, 2, 5, 10, or 100? Do you know? Yes, over 200+ years. Tell me, I really want to know. I am going to bed but wiil check back tomorrow to be educated by your all knowingness.
Parker,
It’s happened several times.
In 1976 a Republican elector voted for Ronald Reagan instead of Gerard Ford.
In 1972 a Republican elector voted for John Hoppers instead of Richard Nixon.
In 1968 a Republican elector voted for George Wallace instead of Richard Nixon.
And so on. If you look up “Faithless Elector” on Wikipedia, you’ll find a complete list. Furthermore, a quick Google search turn up a few articles about electors in the 2016 cycle (of both parties) who have openly hinted they may not vote for their nominee
I’ll just drop this here:
America’s Moment of Truth
Ackler – I don’t know if McMullin will lead it, but I am hoping for a new party to find a home for conservatives like me. The GOP is dead to me at this point (although I’ll probably vote downticket R just to keep a divided government). The idea that on November 9th everything just goes back to normal doesn’t seem plausible at this point.
Otherwise very nice people (Beverly, above) are openly supporting armed insurrection. We are not living in normal times.
She’s on the Trumpian side. I am a member of the other side of the conservative movement – and I am not fantasizing, threatening, etc. armed insurrection. The fact that people are doing that is just another example of how the alt-right thugs and Trumpism poisons everything.
I think it’s incredibly important that he lose by a very wide margin (while R’s hold the congress – may not be possible). This movement of his needs to be stopped cold. And, yes, that means that I’ll be happier on Nov 9 if HRC wins than if Donald wins. And if you had told me I’d ever say that about HRC 2 years ago I would have called you crazy. Shows what a huge blunder the GOP made this year.
But in any event, the Republican party is shattered and it will take leaders like McMullin and others to move us on. Either that or the GOP becomes a rump party full of angry pitchfork holders and conspiracy theorists and the country drifts further to the left every minute. It’s already happening – spend a few moments talking to a millennial (the people who will be in power once we die out) and ask them what they think of Trump and conservatives/Republicans in general.
“The idea that on November 9th everything just goes back to normal doesn’t seem plausible at this point.” – Bill
It will take an act of forgiveness to mend it.
The more dogged trump supporters (including the “converts”) don’t seem the type.
Still, I think there is common ground to be found with the truly “reluctant” trump voters.
I’m of the WF Buckley mind with the Birchers – either the most rabid trump supporters leave, or we leave (or should I say, we come back).
Well, it is a binary choice. Either Trump or Hillary will be the 45th president of the USofA. If you believe otherwise, you will have an opportunity to fleece Vegas of their money.
The avalanche has already started; it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
https://youtu.be/g1GF4Gnb-D0
To recap ballot access (51 meaning full access):
Dems: 51
Repubs: 51
Libertarians: 51
Greens: 45 (+3 write in states)
then everyone else.
You can read about ballot access https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_access_for_major_and_minor_party_candidates but that’s a bit old, being from April 2016.
It will take an act of forgiveness to mend it.
Hillary isn’t the forgiving kind. She’ll use her phone and pen, and the corrupted government agencies (FBI, IRS, ATFE, Secret Service, DHS, DOJ) to exact her revenge upon her political enemies.
Acker:
So you didn’t vote in WA after Cruz dropped out following Indiana. It turned out not to be of any consequence because of the machinations of the RNC and threats by DJT at the convention, but none the less Cruz won WA, or have you forgotten? Maybe others who still voted for Cruz in WA were trying to influence the delegates before Cleveland? Inconceivable!
Van:
And your little lists
and smaller jests
made less.
Neo:
There was a post and a ditty by Van concerning the binary choice that immediately preceded my comment at 10:11. Van’s comments seems to have disappeared.
Ackler,
Oh, so you gave a handful of examples of singular faithless electors, none of which changed the outcome of the EC election of a single POTUS. Wow. That certainly ends the discussion. BTW, is your full name Ackler Hannity?
Parker,
You asked for examples of faithless electors. I provided. No, none of them had any impact on the outcome of the election which is, in a large part, why they could vote faithlessly. And to be clear, if either Trump or Clinton win a clear, outright majority, without any serious dispute, I doubt there will be more than one or two faithless electors this time (if that).
But….if in the unlikely event Egg McMuffin pulls off a win in Utah AND this results in no electoral majority, all bets are off.
Since this has not been mentioned here yet, Evan McMullin’s parents got divorced some time ago. His mother, Lanie McMullin, then got married to another woman later on. One wonders how widely this may be known in Utah.
Egg McMuffin is not a serious candidate. He may be a fruitcake, or this may be a vanity run to set himself up for a later run for office, such as for the Senate.
A vote for Evan McMullin is a wasted vote, especially in light of the ongoing revelations about Hillary Clinton’s dishonesty and corruption.
Just go to McDonald’s, with their new all-day breakfast menu, and enjoy an Egg McMuffin there, but use your one vote most effectively, and vote for Donald Trump. At the end of the day, Trump is still the only one with the best chance to beat the corruption of the other side, and help to restore normality to the country.
@Yanker – that’s goofy.
Provide a criticism of substance rather than try to take down his character.