Obama would love for the US to have mandatory voting
It would be so transformative, you know. Hope and change:
“If everybody voted, then it would completely change the political map in this country,” Obama said, calling it “potentially transformative.” Not only that, Obama said, but universal voting would “counteract money more than anything.”…
Obama said he thought it would be “fun” for the U.S. to consider amending the Constitution to change the role that money plays in the electoral system. But don’t hold your breath.
“Realistically, given the requirements of that process, that would be a long-term proposition,” he said.
I’m surprised he’s even mentioning something as old-fashioned as an amendment. Surely he can think of something more creative, so we can join the following countries with mandatory voting laws that they actually enforce: Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Cyprus, Ecuador, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Nauru, Peru, Singapore, Uruguay, and Schaffhausen canton in Switzerland.
I noticed four things about mandatory voting laws. The first is that only half the places that have them bother to enforce them. The second is that with the exception of Australia, the ones that do aren’t places you’d especially wish to emulate (although that canton in Switzerland might be nice). The third is that it seems to be a real vogue in Latin America, especially if you count the countries that have such laws but don’t enforce them. And the fourth is that they often contain exceptions for illiterate voters and the elderly, and I doubt Obama would want to allow that.
Needless to say, I am against compulsory voting laws. I’m libertarian enough to believe that people should have the liberty to vote or not vote, as they choose.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” H.L. Mencken
Rather than make voting mandatory, I would suggest changing the date we vote. As noted by others , Imagine if voting was scheduled for April 16 instead of in Nov?
It may help focus the attention of 53% of working ants in this country to dislodge some of knaves and crooks in Washington, DC.
But even then the grasshoppers may soon overwhelm the working ants 🙁
“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent
the government from wasting the labors of the people
under the pretense of taking care of them.”
– Thomas Jefferson
Alexander Tyler who was a Scottish History Professor at the University of Edinburgh, said this about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2000 years earlier:
“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse doe to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”
It was G K Chesterton Chesterton who’d observed the franchise was always widened when the governing class were up to no good or were in trouble. It was because they knew it [voting] gave people no power that they gave them a vote.
“…for whom would you cast your vote if you are against the changing of Britain into something else?” Character from G K Chesterton’s The Flying Inn
I would ask the same of those who would not want the U S changed into something else.
Re universal suffrage:
“The ambition of those left below the qualifying limit increases in proportion to the number of those above it. Finally the exception becomes the rule; concessions follow one another without interruption, and there is no halting place until universal suffrage has been attained.”
– Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America (1835)
Re mandatory suffrage:
I’m not voting and you can’t make me.
George Pal, (at a point in life when all his tantrums are behind him and good common sense laced with principle are his guiding light.)
Um, am an Australian (sort of ‘suthuner’ if one considers the Equator). Firstly, would like to point out that “voting” in Australia is not actually “compulsory”. Turning up at the ballot box – IS. What one does with the papers is anyone’s guess. However, since we do take ‘democracy’ mostly seriously – most people (90%) of us actually ‘vote’.
Unlike, it seems, the USA – where votes, and voters can be dissuaded, bought, co-erced, manipulated – into voting for whoever happens to have the finance to achieve the previous.
So, if 49% of the American populace actually turn up at a ballot box; and if 51% of that vote is actually counted with ‘independent’ oversight – does 51% of 49% really mean a ‘majority’. Seriously – from my point of view – the american notion of “democracy” is extremely flawed, and it is no wonder that the rest of any intelligent beings on this planet think that “AMERICAN’ hegemony is a joke.
Davoh:
Speaking for myself, I’d much rather have the vote be from people who took the trouble to register and then interrupt a busy day to vote — because it matters to them — instead of the voting being from people who say “Well, I’m required by law to be here today, and as long as I’m here I might as well vote”.
As Winston Churchill once observed, democracy is the worst system of government ever devised… except for all the others. (Robert Heinlein once wrote the same thing — he listed the many, many flaws and problems with our system, and added that the only good thing about it was that it was eight times better than any other system.) Democracy is messy, expensive, and inconvenient; tyranny is both simpler and cheaper. (The main problem with a tyranny is ensuring a benevolent tyrant. As others have pointed out, both Heaven and Hell are dictatorships. The difference is in the choice of the dictator.)
Perhaps one day we’ll figure out the problem of succession. In the meantime, this is the best we have — and we can discuss the various advantages and disadvantages of the American constitutional republic vs. the systems other countries use.
“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” Winston
This snippet is deeply (and likely inadvertently) revealing about Obama’s character and intentions. Of course, a small portion of habitual non-voters are principled libertarians who view voting (particularly in a first-past-the-post system as ours) as inherently irrational. Others are actively disgusted by politics and the two party system and view not-voting as an affirmative expression of this disgust.
That being said, my strong assumption is (and if anyone has research to confirm or contradict me, please share) most habitual non-voters are almost entirely uninformed and disinterested: about politics, current events, policy, etc. They are not necessarily undereducated or of low intelligence. Rather, they prioritize career, family, leisure, etc. above anything related to politics. They go about their lives passively separated from the events, issues and debates swirling around them.
These LINVs if you will are ones that Obama (and many liberals) feel could be manipulated, bribed, guilted and threatened into voting Democrat. Given that liberal/progressive/leftist positions are the default in most of our civil institutions (the MSM, the entertainment industry, academia, mainline religious denominations, and – increasingly – collegiate and professional sports), I think he’s probably correct. A LINV could be transformed into a LIV and mindless supporter of Democrats with relative ease; if he could just be compelled to get to the polls.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Winston
If voting will be compulsory, what about voter ID?
The first thing I LOVED about Switzerland were the Very Businesslike Security men in the Zurich airport with submachine guns over their shoulders. Next, of course, was the breathtaking beauty of Central Switzerland to this lifelong mountain lover. Then, after some time to soak in the citizenry, The People. You say ya wanta see whatcha’call Diversity?? There are Neat & Responsible citizens; Then there are REALLY Neat & Responsible citizens; and, finally, VASTLY Neat & Responsible citizens. And, the Love Americans & often loathe the French. Baa-Daa-Bing. How’s that for whatcha’call Diversity??!!
Knowing Obama, this is just another vote fraud-enhancing scheme.
I can just imagine how it would work:
First, implement automatic voter registration as was just done in Oregon. This ensures that the voter rolls include illegal aliens (feature for Dems).
Next, implement automatic mailing of absentee ballots to everyone on the voter rolls as was last year in Colorado. This ensures that there are plenty of ballots to scoop up (think of all the misdirected ballots because of people moving, etc.).
Also, be sure to strike down any remaining Voter ID laws.
With each election, organize groups to collect, fill out and mail these misdirected ballots (as was done in Colorado), and organize others to show up and vote for the dead, the relocated, those incapable of doing so (such as nursing home residents), etc,
Democrats win every election!! Unexpectedly (*wink, wink).
Democrats win every election!! Unexpectedly (*wink, wink)…
They vote
Of course, not voting may be construed as a statement unto itself about the voting process — one “votes” by choosing not to vote.
I think Obama likes the idea because it contains the word “mandatory”.
I think Obama likes the idea because it contains the word “mandatory”.
Eventually, portion control.
So how about that voter ID law…
The problem with mandating the masses to do anything is that so often the “m” is silent.
I’ll take the broken system we have over making it worse.
Obama is anti-choice unless it’s to secure taxable assets (i.e. women), democratic leverage (women, again, and men too), and liquidate unwanted, inconvenient, or underpeforming assets… presumably to make room for legal and illegal alien replacements.
What can one say about a man who say it would be “fun” to consider amending the Constitution? FUN??
That’s the sort of thing you might say in a freshman late-night bull session. It’s not what a person of responsibility says.
Raise the voting age to 26. Children do not have an adequate ability to reason and should not be permitted to vote.
Low Involvement Voters should not vote.
I know that I don’t vote down-the-column when I don’t have a clue about a given race.
I’d much rather have those activists with skin in the game to vote.
So, as a rule, I stay out of school board issues, etc.
Forcing votes pollutes the signal with noise… so no wonder Barry is all for it.
Apparently, the backlash to this proposal was strong enough that he’s already walked it back.
Daniel in Brookline,
Obama still sees life as an late-night bull session with plenty of trashy rap as background music.
NeoConScum,
I used to live on the Swiss border. It is beautiful, but I wouldn’t like to live there. The rigidity gets to you. Plus people from one valley can’t speak with people from the next. The Swiss news channel used to provide high Swiss German subtitles when they interviewed locals.
Schaffhausen is a very pretty little town. I ‘ve been there quite a few times, but it is a bit like visiting a museum.
junior:
Oh, I don’t think it was a real proposal; he knew it’s not popular yet (although the left loves it). Not for now.
For the future, though, it is something he wants to happen. He is just dropping the idea into his supporters’ minds. The left has been supporting this for years; you can see articles about it that were written before this. Obama is just trying to norm it, in an ever-so-casual way.
“I’m surprised he’s even mentioning something as old-fashioned as an amendment.” neo
It’s not that surprising, think about it, it’s the Left’s long term, fallback strategy. First, there’s legal immigration, which is predominately from third world, socialist societies and then, there’s the now ‘open’ but always semi-permeable… borders to encourage illegal immigration.
Create enough new “undocumented” democrats, gain them the right to vote, either through “a path to citizenship” or as a basic ‘human right’… and presto, you can in time ‘amend’ the Constitution as much as you wish. (rip it to shreds, “fundamentally transform” it)
There’s NOTHING in the Constitution that indicates that the Bill of Rights cannot be amended. There’s NO mention of “unalienable rights”. The founders viewing them as ‘self-evident truths’ hardly needful of formal specification. Perfectly understandable as Marx had yet to appear and America was far from the time when it would struggle with the question of “God or Man?” as the ‘grantor’ of our rights.
Constitutionally, as things now stand, our ‘rights’ can legally be swept away with enough votes.
And the democrats have, since the mid-60’s had a long term plan in place to create those votes. It’s now projected that by 2040 there will be more non-white babies than white ones born. Only tangentially the race of course, it’s the cultural expectations of the parents raising those babies that will determine America’s long term future.
We have a fun deficit and we’ll send you to camp for that: hear the sheeple clap
Ok – it’s beginning to be pretty clear – if Obama wants it, it’s a d*amn bad idea for the US.
And yes, my cynicism has increased by leaps and bounds over the last few years.
The one shred of comfort that I took away from his election in 2008 was that perhaps we would now be able to bury the notion that the US is ‘teh most racist nation evah!’
Alas, even that comforting little hope has been dashed to pieces on the rocks of this administration.
After the November 2014 election where the Dems got throttled Obama spun it that his party actually won because of all the people who did NOT vote.
Add these two statements together and one has the portrait of a delusional dictator.
NeoConScum Says:
March 19th, 2015 at 11:02 am
White Privilege, obviously.
Mandatory voting – of course, Obama and the Democrats would favor that; how else can they get ALL the dead people to vote?
Counterproposal: Include “None of the above” for every elective office.
Barry wants the whole country to be like my home town, Philadelphia, where we always say, “Vote early, and vote often!” Ah, Philadelphia, where people like to vote so much, they even vote after they’re dead!
Over at Patterico, they also covered this topic. One interesting point was the comments about voters in Australia, where voting is required:
Just what a democracy needs, people voting for or against things based on their position on a ballot.
The new triad of duty in Obama’s America: death, taxes, voting.
any activity not banned by the state is required.
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