It seems to me we’ve reached…
…some sort of tipping point.
Either the American people will prove they’re susceptible to disinformation, or they won’t.
Either the American people will prefer to go the way of Europe, or they’ll want to keep their exceptionalism.
Either the American people will succumb to a con artist intent on expanding his power, or they won’t.
It’s really up to them. The sad thing is that, if the people choose the first alternative of each pair, they probably will see it all as a good thing, not a bad one—until, perhaps, it’s too late, and maybe not even then. It’s been a long slow Gramscian slide, hasn’t it?
I’m having some of those same thoughts, Neo. I guess all we can do is try our hardest to get Romney elected.
But in the end, the outcome will depend on the quality of the American electorate.
texexec: yes. It doesn’t stop even if Romney were to be elected. We are balancing on the cusp; it’s probably been about 50/50 for quite some time.
If Obama is elected then we have Obama for four more years as well as a voting public that makes the wrong choice. At that point, I think the game is over.
If Romney wins, it still will be tough and will require the full effort of Romney, Ryan, GOP controlled House and Senate, and the support from a majority of the American people, to pull us out.
Welcome to my world! 🙂
Economically, I say the point passed four years ago.
From this new perspective, consider how the other GOP candidates would have been much better suited to either moving the political narrative back toward (or reinstating) Constitutional gov’t. Cain, Bachmann and Paul had the most transformational potential. Gingrich at least understands most of it, even if his personality prevents him from being the transformers he wants to be. Even Perry had a chance to shake up narratives and stereotypes as a rube from Paint Creek who became President.
As Lincoln said*,
The issue now is not whether some can remain slaves, but if all must become slaves.
*Hillsdale’s Constitution 201 is proving to be both timely and excellent. Anyone who wants to understand our enemy should sign up for the course:
https://constitution.hillsdale.edu/201
Neo-Neocon wrote: We are balancing on the cusp; it’s probably been about 50/50 for quite some time.
That is definitely true. If we hadn’t been, then the public wouldn’t have been so easily swayed by the media’s long campaign against Bush.
When Romney selected Ryan I felt encouraged because it seemed like a great chance to go on the offense about the implications of this administration’s policies in many spheres. I knew the press would try to ignore it or to deny it, but I felt like at least the message had a chance of getting through. If the message does get through, though, and if people still re-elect Obama, then I think it will mean that we’ve passed the tipping point.
Yes, yes. I’ve been thinking this for a little while- it’s a referendum on the electorate as much as the candidates, maybe moreso.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I’m betting that 99% of the 48% who don’t pay taxes will vote for Obama, and a good percentage of the “independents”, who I think are really single issue voters – abortion, amnesty, or some other specific thing that interests them, will make up the difference for Obama.
And like you, I think a large number of people will realize too late what happened. I also believe Obama supporters will be hurt the most by this president’s policies. The likelihood that the economy will turn around under this fool in a second term is zero, and the long term unemployed will remain that way. Businesses will continue to flee over-regulation and small businesses will be hurt by Obama’s health care mess.
I plan to work my ass off and secure my future in spite of this clown, but I will find it very, very hard to be supportive of anybody who votes for him, for whatever reason. That’s the part that’s most distressing to me. Fellow Americans, neighbors, who have lost the meaning of self reliance, who are jealous of others who have more than them, however they acquired it, who believe that voting themselves other people’s property is “fair”.
When he bankrupts the country and the federal welfare checks start bouncing things will self correct. Until then, the rest of us will pay the bills.
I’ve felt for years that a dark age was on the horizon, mostly because of an uneducated citizenry lacking many useful skills and possessing a very limited understanding of history and the material basis of the good life. The schools carry much of the blame, but I doubt we could have sunk so far if we hadn’t been so successful and rich. The rot started when the boomers inherited the spoils of WWII and spread with that cohort throughout the educational establishment and the academy. How will we recover? Not easily, I think, civilization is fragile and the thread of tradition has been broken.
I am curious to see how the coming troubles manifest themselves around the world and whether any region will be particularly resistant.
A “tipping point” indeed. With the media having now abandoned any pretense of impartiality – – indeed, having decided to embrace a classic Big Lie strategy– we’re all seeing just how heavily the media is willing to press its collective thumb down on the scale.
This is incredible; it’s like seeing a made-for-TV movie demonstrating how propaganda can be effectively used on a complacent and stupid populace. I’ve had a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach ever since I saw the “Romney’s gaffe!” gambit put into play (when was it, Wednesday morning?). It’ hard to understand how anyone can believe this line of transparent lies, but apparently millions do (or pretend to because it serves their side to do so).
That der Spiegel headline today was right on the money: “US President Barack Obama’s Middle East policy is in ruins”. The media know this is true and we are witnessing just how far they’ll go — and how low they’ll go — to distract the proles from that naked fact of life.
What a betrayal of the sacred trust they were given by the founders of this nation. What a shame.
Good line Chuck, and so true: ” The thread of tradition has been broken”.
How long did it take for our traditions to evolve and how long and will it take to “rediscover” and rebuild them?
guys, please STOP IT.
By succumbing to anxiety and despair at this stage, we proving that we ourselves are susceptible to liberal media propaganda.
There are a host of good reasons for believing that the polls are exceedingly unreliable this cycle, including oversampling of democrats, extremely low response rate for surveys (esp. among conservatives), using unrealistic or outdated voter turnout models, surveying registered voters rather than likely voters, biased wording of questions, and manipulating margins of error to show “movement” in the electorate.
With so many uncertainties, polls at this stage should be regarded as nothing more than a subtle form of push polling. The biggest factor is going to be turnout, and I don’t think anyone has a good handle on that as yet. If we conservatives depress our own turnout by allowing this push polling to influence us, then a loss will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
How many other readers feel like an alien in their own country?
DonS says:
“If Obama is elected then we have Obama for four more years as well as a voting public that makes the wrong choice. At that point, I think the game is over.”
If Obama wins, I think even his supporters may be horrified at the consequences, but would the game be over? Would any one of us give up, concede that the new way of life is acceptable or unassailable? I think opposition would intensify, become even better organized, and gain new members.
As much as I worry about the outcome of this election, I’m encouraged by the growing number of newly awakened conservatives, especially teens and young adults. I’ve never before seen the intense interest in the Constitution that is so widespread now, supported by robust educational efforts such as the free courses offered by Hillsdale College. We have come to understand that our system of government and the document that establishes it are unique and precious, and must not be lost. While an Obama win could be disastrous, I can’t believe that apathy would rule the day. There’d be a hard-core portion of the population who would make it their mission to take back the country.
Not that any of this would be easy, nor necessarily successful. There could be violence, on both sides.The game would not be over, but it could be very messy and dangerous.
It’s really up to them.
its not, it would be if they knew, and were making a choice from knowing…
and they had already voted this and such long ago. i can post the minutes… but my life is valuable to me and not to you, so i wont risk more time in the trash posting details.
oh. if i did want to waste the time, i would go back to the early posts where i said it was a fait accompli and you kept saying no.
now do you believe me?
you wouldnt know if it wasnt done…
the chance to avoid it was this four years and act. but as i said, we didnt decide it was happening till now.
how do i know? easy. the questions change when the idea is centered on… the talk is more focused. the conversation changes from proof and history, to now what?
Sorry, came around too late…
not that i didnt try to wake em up..
but i spent all my time trying to prove it was what it was (and losing hours of my life to the trash)..
i tried to point out the laws, regulations and things one would have to look at and go for, but why go for it till the actual belief changed? not the i think it changed, but the change that then causes behavior and focus and such change.
do you believe there is a tsunami coming said the man on the beach. the other man says yes, i believe
then why are you not running?
it was nice talking through the end game
but note the tipping point your talking about, that was decades ago… trust me, i have been fighting this fight since the 70s… your recent conversion makes you a new recruit to the battle field.
ever see that episode of band of brothers were they refuse to make friends with the new guys as most of them die fast due to their lack of knowing and being new and not knowing the game but thinking they do.
hows this.
put up the BEST scenario..
the one that you think pulls us back from the edge
and i will show you how you cant pull back without getting rid of something we wont get rid of, or acting in a way that we wont act.
this may be the first revolution you have experienced and your family, but technically, this is the 6th or 7th for my family…
ever see a person play chess like a grand master the first time they play, or in the first months?
why?
Either the American people will buy into false dichotomies, or they won’t….
If BHO wins, then it will be the final triumphant temper tantrum by the Baby Boomer generation who started this whole mess circa 1969. Yeah! We finally showed our mean parents how wrong they were! We know better!
The Republicans will control the House and they have a shot at the Senate. That should slow the damage Obama can do. It won’t do much for the debt or the bad economy. The people who vote for Obama may just get what they want, good and hard.
The battle is joined. The strident calls of the superior class is more than matched by the home spun cloth of courage and anger. They haven’t faced our anger. They haven’t known resistance.
Deep in the heart lies a mystery of rebellion versus acceptance. The heart of most, given parental love and guidance, rejects rebellion, but once made mad with repeated absurdities and injustices, beats full power against the fat lesbian teaches of Chicago, against the DEMANDED lean vegetarian diet of Michelle Obama, against the forced seizure of the weekly paycheck, against the degradation of closely guarded and silently treasured values and principles. We love, we tolerate, we wait, and we are hating!
These people, this silent majority, is ready and ripe for a rebellion, a righteous expression of indignation and outrage. It shall not occur by the breaking of windows or the breaking of law, but at the ballot box. The tide is not seen, it is unknown but gathering. It is a tsunami whose only warning is a slight withdrawing of waters here and there, but watch out, it is coming and it will destroy all that is and has gone before.
Foxmarks – Economically, I say the point passed four years ago.
yup..
Actually before that, but before that, there was a chance of acting and going a different direction.
But then nothing would bring the unanimity that we have now, because then, the majority was not convinced to the point of some act or concession to the end result
But then, back then, we had Huxley’s. The reasonable people who would constantly come forward and tell the fire inspector fires never happen, this is not it, relax, etc. as long as there was a reasonable answer to pick, that’s what they picked (as I said back then I learned from my family who lived through it — but in post modern feminist world, experience doesn’t count, it makes us unequal, and so imagination and that is on equal footing with it. Which is why we won’t default to any kind of experience and move forwards. Ie. Everyone wants to be the captain and they will all argue, but the minute they hit the iceberg, they snap up and are willing to bail water — too late)
So pull out your harp Nero, time to play..
as they are offering so much to women, that I cant believe they wont accept it as their entitlement for being so special and suited for the future (as they say it!). Actually the feminists are now publishing that women are genetically superior to men
Which would be funny if it wasn’t so sad… ie. How can they be superior? How can you have asymmetric Darwinism? You cant. You have specialization for both, and either you have a set of things you think are important that then you use to justify which set of specializations are superior. So the women are and have been with po mo declaring a new world, and the brutishness of men are not needed (As if that’s their only quality) and they are superior.
When the yelling Islamic men come over the fence and start on the women as not wearing the veil, will they think they are still superior and for the future that won’t come if they can’t repel the inferior men.
They are about to find out how much the world has NOT changed and that the qualities they used to love men for will be highly needed.
However, all that is moot..
As the big immediate problem to work on, is how to convince the entitlement mentality educated and conditioned superior genetic self aggrandized women NOT to take all the special gifts from the state in exchange for their votes?
will all those entitled young women that think they should get free daycare, free medical, free birth control, free college, and even get equal pay despite the fact that they now earn more…(one feminist is reporting 150% more in Alabama in one area, and using that to claim that women are genetically superior to men. so there is no more reason to fight for equality, is there?)
The link below leads to a list that is basically a vote for me bribery list.
The women reading it will not realize that since men are not going to work as much, do to those rules, they are going to end up paying for the gifts that Obama is going to buy for them for their votes!!!!!!!!
Obama Administration Record for Women and Girls
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/womens_record.pdf
Council (Soviet) on women and girls
http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/cwg
Some other things for women so they vote for more statism..
(Don’t bother to look for men, there aren’t any.
Men wouldn’t betray their own that way, so they don’t even try)
Council (Soviet) on Women and Girls Leadership
Department of Labor Women’s Bureau
Resources for Women Veterans
Resources addressing Violence Against Women
State Department Office of Global Women’s Issues
OSTP Women in Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (STEM)
http://www.womenshealth.gov/
Coordinated Services and Access to Research for Women, Infants, Children, and Youth, $61,441,000 total funding
Education and Training to End Violence Against and Abuse of Women with Disabilities, $666,000 total funding
Family Violence Prevention and Services/Grants for Battered Women’s Shelters_Discretionary Grants, $10,179,000 total funding
Family Violence Prevention and Services/Grants For Battered Women’s Shelters_Grants to State Domestic Violence Coalitions, $12,565,000 total funding
Family Violence Prevention and Services/Grants for Battered Women’s Shelters_Grants to States and Indian Tribes, $102,904,000 total funding
Grants to Reduce Violent Crimes Against Women on Campus, $998,000 total funding
National Community Centers of Excellence in Women’s Health, $600,000 total funding
Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children, $4,332,412,000 total funding
Violence Against Women Formula Grants, $4,643,000 total funding
Women’s Bureau, $9,201,000 total funding
[edited for length by n-n]
I still think it is a rather large if that BHO will win. I am not swayed by polls or the yammering of the MSM. And, as noted above, the GOP will retain the House and look likely to take the Senate.
However, if BHO wins and the GOP representatives and senators do no fight him every inch of the way get ready for the brown shirts marching down the street. Do not go quietly. Treat them like rabid dogs.
The rot started when the boomers inherited the spoils of WWII and spread with that cohort throughout the educational establishment and the academy.
no. it started before that, as i have detailed.
specifically the teachers union voting to indoctrinate over teach… that was in the 30s…
but hey? it hasn’t meant anything bad to the teachers union in 80 years… and my saying the history from 5 years ago didn’t dent it either.
pretty much 90% of us were BORN into this, and so without other knowledge, they cant get out of it. and prior to crisis making the situations unarguable, they wont accept any conclusion they didn’t like and so change behavior and focus and conversation. notice we are no longer talking history to prove what will happen, as its happened and we need no more proof.
there is no more reasonable arguments to pick, are there? just as i said to Huxley and everyone else.
and regardless of what neo claims, the past few days is about he only clear consensus with an idea that this is going to happen and there is little to do to stop it.
We are all watching the world war i said was coming with caveats.
a week ago, nah..
today.. omg, look at all the places that heated up after yesterday, if this continues
welcome to yesterday, nice and sunny
today, ferdinand dead..
except that we had almost 150 years warning
and we left our kids with them so women could earn more money, and become married to the state rather than husbands, and have no choice but to vote for despotism or chance starving…
i mean, most welfare recipients are women.
the number of men that don’t work compared to the number of women is very different.
those women who will vote in hopes of more than the 9 billion for food they get (and other things), are not going to vote for someone they think will take away that food.
so the whole point of getting women away from their mates was not what they claimed. they knew that each would sign up for welfare, and welfare rules would also help by requiring the man to leave…
now we are at the end of that liberating game, and they have liberated us of our freedom and birthrights. and yet, i am the only one who says anything negative about those leaders with any regularity.
you will find it VERY hard to get a number on women receiving this. they dont want you to know. you get children, and disabled, and you think it should be an easy click (like lots of other things)… but its not.
i can easily get by race, but not gender.
but you can get an eye opener on how they view it by reading the stuff they teach people
Introduction: Gender & the Welfare State
http://www.ub.uib.no/elpub/1996/h/506002/eirinn/eirinn-Introduc.html
[edited for length by n-n]
southpaw @ 5:23
Take heart, of all of theose freeloaders were to show up at the polls it would be an unprecedented eletoral turnout. Ain’t gonna happen.
Chuck @ 5:38
Societies reach this point all the time some survive and some fail. Our scourge is that we get to see it all happen in a 24/7 cyber newscycle so we’re more aware of this that prior cultures. Also people tend to establish trend lines from independent events; like the financial mkt, when it’s going up it’ll never go down, when it’s tanking, it’ll never recover.
reticent @ 6:19
Bingo! It’s easy to appear courageous when things are moving in the direction one desires. True courage is to buck up when the going gets tough and to not give into the despair promulgated by the MSM.
Curtis @ 7:19
Wonderfully stated; I agree. I have long been singing the song that there is something going on beneath the polling radar. I’v seen too many anecdotal events which, in isolation mean nothing, but which, when taken together is precisely of what you write. If that tsunami arrives, then we ironically owe Obama our gratitude, for without his pushing statism to the limit it would not have come to this for many more years, perhaps when it really was too late. We also should thank him for finally revealing the MSM for the biased and partisan vehicle it truly is, much to its discredit. They have lost their monopoly on their manufactured “truth.”
reticent: one of the reasons I’m feeling this way is that last night I did about 6 hours of research on presidential polls over the last 80 years or so. If you look at each presidential election over time, for the most part (with only a couple of exceptions) the polls were close to correct, and predicted the winner. What’s more, it was exceedingly rare that there wasn’t one candidate who’d been ahead for many months, and that candidate usually won the election. In the present case, Obama’s usually been ahead, for many months.
The only late reversals of any magnitude were Reagan in 1980 and Truman in 1948, and Truman was somewhat of a special case since polling was in its infancy.
I’m not saying it’s a foregone conclusion, and I’m not saying the polls are right this time, but I’m saying that polling is usually relatively good and relatively accurate.
I have a sketchy draft of a post on this topic.
neo points out, “I did about 6 hours of research on presidential polls over the last 80 years or so . . . .”
But [now I’ll be the skunk at the picnic] over those eighty years or so, have the polls ever been what has to be intentionally biased to favor one candidate? — I’m referring to the goofy samples that the pollsters are using, ably documented again and again on Drudge, hotair.com, and other outlets. That’s ^got^ to be intentional, in my rarely humble opinion.
I’m pessimistic like you, neo, but what I’m yammering about above is still a factor.
Also, with ummm seven or so weeks to the election, seven or so weeks can be an eternity in politics. And as the speed at which we communicate news events increases, the seven or so weeks becomes longer and longer; in other words, in the old days, not as much happens in seven weeks or so as happens now, therefore the seven weeks is a longer eternity (if you will — I hope you and readers “will”!).
And then there’s the factor of lefties stealing the election via suddenly discovered ballots, hanging chads, the graveyard vote, etc., etc.
And then I’m pessimistic again. I think I’ll quit while I’m behind . . .
make your own electoral college map
“Real Clear Politics” has a base map showing electoral college votes derived from polling date. They offer an option to create your own map by tinkering with theirs. It’s hard to see how Romney can win, but I haven’t given up yet.
“map showing electoral college votes derived from polling date”
Sorry, that’s “data” not “date.”
great..
Jay Carney, repeating the reason provided by the “protesters”, blaming it on a movie…
“We also need to understand that this is a fairly volatile situation and it is in response not to United States policy, and not to, obviously, the administration, or the American people, but it is in response to a video, a film that we have judged to be reprehensible and disgusting.”
Martin Dempsey Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is backing him up on that one…
General Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, called a Florida pastor on Wednesday and asked him to withdraw his support for a film whose portrayal of the Prophet Mohammad has been linked to violent protests – including one that ended with the death of America’s envoy to Libya.
People have said they would like to see the movie makers put in prison for causing this…
The administration has asked you tube to take the video down.
They have taken the time to release the name of the film maker to the public. i guess to make it easier to do to him as what happened to Theo van Gogh…
and last, the FBI has been sent to him as well.
MJR: ever since the blogosphere has been around, every time there’s an election and one side doesn’t like what the polls are saying, the people on that side (usually, I think, the right side—although that’s the side I’m usually paying more attention to) criticize the samples. And there’s plenty to criticize, so the complaints seem very valid. But for the most part, when the election is over, it turns out that the polls were very close to being right (a few exceptions, of course).
Of course, it might really be true this time that the turnout is quite different from the polling samples, and then the results would be different. I certainly hope so.
US Credit Rating Cut by Egan-Jones … Again
being referred to as QE Infinity (not like the car)
keep that in mind when you read below…
The interesting thing is that they are being downgraded because the grading firms don’t seem to like Keneysian ideas…
Fed’s ‘QE Infinity’: Four Things That Could Go Wrong
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49034067/
neo, you nailed it this time. I’ve often wondered if we’ve gone past the point of no return on the issues you mention. Is the voting dependency class now bigger than the producers? Worse is White Guilt a big enough factor that will turn out the upper middle class to vote left?
And more recently, do enough people care about our standing in the world, and that we are and should be a leader?
More bluntly, the 20th Century was the American Century, but will the 21st Century be the Chinese or Muslim Centuries?
Neoneocon wrote:
and conversely there is the Univ of Colorado study which predicts a decisive Romney win and has correctly predicted every presidential eletion since 1980
http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2012/08/22/analysis-election-factors-points-romney-win-university-colorado-study-says
First of all, don’t despair because of the polls. As I wrote in an earlier post, even if all else is equal (and it’s not) the polling agencies have a vested interest in a horse race. They only earn their street cred when they’re close at election time, so don’t ignore unconcsious bias as well as push-polling and outright misrepresentation (PPP oversampling Missouri Republicans) at this point in the cycle.
You also note that the only noteworthy reversals were Reagan and Truman. IMO, this election looks quite a bit like both of those. The Mid-East situation as we approach the election is eerily reminiscent of the last year of Carter’s presidency (and Obama is at least as impotent as Carter was) and the expected Dewey win in 1948 failed to acknowledge important factors that led to Truman’s victory.
Take PA (with which I’m especially familiar) I’ve previously mentioned the undervote in the 2012 Dem primary which does not register in any polls. The 2012 undervote would have eliminated ~513,000 votes from Obama in 2008 while at the same time Phila recorded 574,000 Obama votes. If such an undervote occurs in the Nov election it almost completely nullifies the influence of Phila proper and at the very least makes Phila influence a steeper hill to limb and makes PA winnable for Romney. Any of those undervotes that go to Romney, make that Phila climb even steeper. What of the undervotes in any other swing states of which we have little or no knowledge?
Now I’m not stridently insisting that either I or the Univ CO study are absolute. My point is that this kind of stuff just doesn’t register with the polls and it doesn’t exist for the beltway pundits either because of the bubble in which they live.
And once again the base measure is that 47% of the electorate refused to buy Obama’s bill of goods in 2008. Does anyone really believe that any of them will vote for Obama with this track record? All it takes is ~4% of the electorate switching sides, and in theory that could be accomplished by enthusiastic high Republican turnout. Furthermore there will be enthusiastic Republicans voting for Romney, voters enthusiastically voting against Obama and voters with buyers’ remorse reluctantly voting against Obama.
Keep the faith; don’t no one despair, not no way, not no how!
I am in the camp that says, “Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!” All this hand wringing, despondency, and defeatism, bah!
The left wing pollsters are trying to portray the inevitability of Obama’s election. I am thinking they may push that meme too hard and hold down turnout on their side. It goes like this: When Obama’s so far ahead in the polls no need for the lefties to go vote because it’s in the bag. Their enthusiasm is not as high as 2008. It is going to take a lot to get a good turnout on their side. The polls won’t help that unless it appears that Romney is slightly ahead and they need to turn out.
Listen to me. There is plenty of time. There hasn’t been a debate yet. Romney/Ryan have more money than Obama, more enthusiasm among their supporters. Are any of you going to skip voting? Didn’t think so. It isn’t over until the fat lady sings and she isn’t even warming up yet.
But the real work begins when Romney/Ryan win. Their every move will be criticized and debunked by the MSM and fought tooth and nail by the dems. It will take all R/R’s intelligence and effort, plus tincture of time to start the work that needs to be done. You don’t roll back 100 years of leftist gains in one election or even two. But we can start.
Be of good cheer. The battle is just beginning.
The polls were wrong in 1980, 1984, 1988, 2000, and 2004. Each and every time the polls had the D candidate up by considerable margins. I am confident this year will be a reprise. Many of you at neo-neocon are in the east or west coast and surrounded by the clueless ones. Here in flyover country the tide has turned. In flyover country the curtain is open and we see the wizard for a fraud.
Parker,
“The Wizard of Fraud”—sounds like a book title.
Speaking of which, since I paraphrased Bert Lahr above, just realize that the characters in the Wizard were a Scarecrow who wanted a brain, but was inherently an intelletual problem-solver, a tin man who had a heart but just didn’t recognize it and a cowardly lion with the necessary courage. Things are not alway as we think them to be, perhaps, too, the American electorate.
And J. J. formerly Jimmy J, I’m with you all the way. Damn the torpedoes, gird the loins and buckle the swash. We. Are. Ready. To. Take. This. Country. Back
I’ve been reading a lot of whistling past the graveyard recently. Not just here, but elsewhere too.
Art’s right. There are an awful lot of Americans who are foolish, ignorant, brainwashed, and totally dependent on the government. Are they in the majority now? We’re about to find out. I have a bad feeling about this election, and I don’t think we’re going to like the answer.
This is not about going to European-style socialism. We’re already 3/4 there as it is. This is about going full-bore Communist.
The one thing that is different about America compared to other countries that have suffered a Communist takeover is that we are armed to the teeth. If there are ANY attempts to further restrict guns and ammo, then it’s “go” time. Use ’em or lose ’em. And if we lose them, then death camps are in our future. That is as certain as the sunrise.
Civil war or death camps. That’s a hell of a choice. But those are the stakes if this election doesn’t go the right way.
I remember seeing some websites in 2008 that insisted that the polls were wrong, and McCain/Palin would pull off an upset. Turned out the polls were right after all.
“I’m pessimistic like you, neo, but what I’m yammering about above is still a factor.”
There is no reason for pessimistic thoughts as JJ formerly states. Yes, there is a significant % of the population who want swag they have not earned. Those who want to earn their own way are a majority…. 0.5%, 2%, 3%, 5%? We will not know until the final moment. Attitude is everything. Never give in, never give up, pick yourself up, and resist any coercion with your unified spirit-mind-body.
rickl,
and that McCain/Palin win just might have happened. Remember that McCain/Palin were leading in the polls up to McCain’s great financial meltdown. He suspended his campaign returned to Washington and looked as feckless in DC as Obama does w/ regard to the Middle East now.
At any rate, I’m not saying that the polls are wrong, and I’m certainly not saying they’re wrong because they don’t give me the results I want. I’m saying that they don’t see the full story. They’re looking at the forest, but what I’m seeing living among the trees in a swing state is telling me an entirely different story. It’s like Neville Chamberlain insisting that Hitler wanted world peace as the Wehrmacht entered Poland. If anyone is guilty of whistling past the graveyard it’s this administration and its MSM. Did you see Kirsten Powers lace into the MSM for making this Mid-East crisis about Romney’s response?
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2012/09/13/fncs-kirsten-powers-slams-utterly-insane-media-obsession-attacking-rom
She’s noticed, she’s courageous enough to say it, and if she has noticed, others have as well without watching Fox News.
J.J. formerly Jimmy J. Says:
September 14th, 2012 at 9:57 pm
But why the HELL did the RNC agree to debates moderated by left-wing MSM drones? WTF is the matter with them?
Dennis Prager, Michael Medved, Mark Levin, and even Bill Bennett would make excellent debate moderators. Why doesn’t the RNC insist on using them?
Ah! The Republican party: once again striving to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
In Western PA (Dem dominated), our Repub party organization is about as useful as a gelding in a field of mares. ‘Nuff siad.
“Civil war or death camps. That’s a hell of a choice. But those are the stakes if this election doesn’t go the right way.”
Death camps??? I don’t think so, but if so….. over the graves of my grandchildren. If that is the choice many millions will quickly choose civil war. Along the coasts and in large metro areas elsewhere there will be tens of millions who are rioting and whining for handouts; the rest of us will feel liberated.
West of the Mississippi and east of the western slope of the Rockies, all the way from ND to TX, we don’t need the rest of you. We have the grains and the fuels and the military bases to tell the rest of you to F-off. Beyond the center there are only fed goon squads with 40 S&W pistols, 9MM submachine guns, 223 rifles, and inner city punks with 9MM pistols that they don’t know how to shoot.
Here in the heartland we have 30 to 50 cal rifles, and military forces that will not obey an order to fire on civilians. So bring it on Belt Way whores while my eyes can still hit a dinner plate at 400 yds.
But it will not come down to that. The left will eat the left. At heart they are cannibals.
rickl,
If Romney learned anything in the primary debates (and I think he did), he will use Newt’s technique of reframing the question. That is effective and it puts the audience on notice that there are different ways to look at an issue. Also, if the moderators are too biased and ask too many “when did you stop beating your wife” type questions, the independents will not be fooled. At least those who are no longer enamored of Obama. There are plenty of those around. I watch Frank Luntz’s focus groups on Fox quite a lot. There are plenty of 2008 Obama supporters that are disillusioned and now call themselves independents. Additionally, if the moderators give Obama too much deference, he may get arrogant and start showing off. Remember, he likes to showboat when he thinks he’s in friendly territory. Not going to play well in Peoria.
I’m not worried about the moderators.
The MSM has the upper hand right now because of what”s happening in the ME. However, we only have to point to Senator Obama’s 10/21/2007 statement: “The day I’m inaugurated Muslim hostility will ease.”
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/09/14/FLASHBACK-Obama-The-Day-Im-Inaugurated-Muslim-Hostility-Will-Ease
My comment: “Heckuva job, Mr. President!”
As it becomes more obvious to voters what a mess Obama’s foreign policy is, I think it will become almost as much of a dead weight to Obama as the economy is.
Marxists have a long way to travel
Scum bags have been strangely strong
Against the fortunes of those who labor
make their fortunes of owing their own.
Give, they demand, your eanings, Give!
They love what they did not earn or own,
and claim the property of others,
of free men which is you and me. (Those bastards, let’s take revenge.)
Hope. Hope and change. What a slogan.
Here is their slogan:
We own you, we make you, we have you.
We love making you our slave.
But we shall reply, you DIE.
parker: look at the Gallup charts. You are incorrect about the polls for those years—at least Gallup, the pollster I’ve been studying.
In 1980 (the year I’d explained was an exception because it featured a late-breaking change in lead), the polls reflected the switch in lead quite clearly. The only thing the polls didn’t get correct was the margin of victory, higher for Reagan than predicted. In 1984, Reagan led Mondale the entire way, and the final Gallup poll was exactly correct. In 1988, Bush pulled ahead of Dukakis in August and never fell behind. In 2000 (the closest race in history), Gore led at first, but in September the candidates started to be neck and neck and very soon Bush went ahead and stayed ahead, although it remained close.
For some reason I couldn’t find Gallup for 2004, but Zogby had Bush ahead virtually the entire time, although most of the figures were close. The final results were quite close, too.
Do not forget vote fraud, which is absolutely essential to the Left. When has anyone ever hears of Republican vote fraud? It can run as high as 3-5% of the vote. We can win this election, but still lose it by fraud.
Stalin had a trenchant remark, which went something like this: “It’s not the votes that count, it is who counts the votes.”
rickl, Parker and many many others are armed in anticipation of nourishing the tree of Liberty with the blood of tyrants, and I will stand with them. Buy more ammo! The breaking point is nigh.
So, You Think Socialism Isn’t Really that Bad?
by Alena Pavlik
http://clashdaily.com/2012/09/so-you-think-socialism-isnt-really-that-bad/
I compare it to a ZOO where there is a fence so you cannot leave; but you won’t die of hunger.
Thanks for the link, art.
Of course we don’t really need articles like hers to know the truth. The history of the USSR, Red China, North Korea, East Germany, Myanamar, and many others are right there in front of our faces. Only people blinded by faith (and that is what communism is) cannot see it. Yet some our best educated don’t see it because they have accepted whole-heartedly the belief in utopia on Earth and the perfect man. It is a religion as irrational and blind as Islam. And maybe that is why they seem unable to see the threat from Islam.
I’m not thinking that a hot civil war is going to happen because we know the progs don’t own guns and I doubt they will be able to command the loyalty of the military except for a minority of perfumed princes in the Pentagon. They won’t fight themselves. They’d much rather jaw, jaw.
I’m going to say something contrary here. After hearing of the appalling announcement Friday morning of the unlimited Fed Reserve “QE3” I *almost* want Obama to win.
Not really of course. I couldn’t stomach voting for him and I have donated to the Romney campaign (my vote won’t count anyway since I live in CA). But I think there is a good chance this disastrous policy will cause an economic meltdown that makes 2008 look like a blip and then the party in power won’t win an election for the next 80 years. If Romney is elected will he, or can he, reverse it? I didn’t think it was possible for anyone to do more damage to the country than Obama but Bernanke may be the one. OK there is foreign policy too.
RCP has New Mexico for Obama. Nope.
I do believe there is a chance New Jersey will go for Romney with Chris Christie as governor.
Minnesota and Connecticut may go Romney as well and I’m not smoking anything.
I believe a landslide will happen.
for Romney
A friend sent me this a couple of hours ago, and it made the hair on the nape of my neck stand up. God help us all, and God particularly help the Jews of Israel.
>>Urgent Prayer needed: A friend received this e-mail 9.11.2012 From A.G. Missionary
************************************************
My brother and his family live in Jerusalem – he is a minister – and a former Navy SEAL – his office is close to one of Israel ‘s largest underground military bases.
He called me last night (9/10/2012) which is very unusual – usually it is email.
He called to tell me that he is sending his family back to the US immediately due to what he is seeing happen within the last week and what he is being told by his military contacts in both the Israel and US military.
He said he is seeing with his own eyes military movements the likes of which he has never seen in his 20+ years in Israel .
What he called a massive redeployment and protective tactics of forces is underway.
Over the last two days he has seen anti-aircraft missile deployments throughout the Jerusalem area including 3 mobile units that he can see from his office windows.
In addition, he has seen very large Israeli armored columns moving fast toward the Sinai where Egypt has now moved in Armor.
There are reports of the top military leaders meeting with Israel ‘s Sr. Rabi which is something that has happened preceding every prior military campaign.
His admonition is to watch carefully and pray for Israel and its people.
He is convinced that barring something extraordinary, Israel will attack Iran – with or without the US – and very soon.
It is the belief in Israel that Obama does not stand with Israel but with the Arab countries.
He has told me before that Israel will saber rattle from time to time but that this time is very different from what he is seeing and hearing.
He was at the Wailing-(Western)-Wall 2 days ago and there were hundreds of IDF soldiers there. As he was leaving he passed at least 20 military buses full of soldiers in route to the wall.
He has never seen this before either.
Just thought I would pass this along.
My brother is not an alarmist by any means.
==================================
Wm Ben-Carl TONY MARK ANTHONY JACKSON Writes:
This was the e-mail from Rabbi Greg Hershberg, Beth Yeshua International, Macon Ga. – message was sent out at Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:09 AM
Urgent Prayer Alert from
Rabbi Greg for Israel!
Dearest Mispoocha,
Please pray for Israel like never before! Barring a miracle a military campaign is brewing. Please, please pray like never before!!!
Sincerely,
Rabbi Greg<<
Essentially. I believe there will be some surprises.
I was NOT surprised to see Obama win the first time. My girlfriend was.
She thought there was so much racism that he wouldn’t win.
I told her that was nonsense.
I told her that he has an ADVANTAGE because most people wanted to see an African American president and were willing to give him a pass on the fact that he wasn’t very well known – and voted present 45% of the time.
now we know him.
He’s radical. Yet he’s still voting present.
An empty chair yet he’s made his mark.
His mark is decidedly leftward and damaging to our countries future.
beverly:
I don’t doubt it. I have a strong feeling that things are about to come to a head.
For what its worth- I don’t believe that 99% of the 48% are blissfully voting for Obama. A lot of them are blue collar families trying to make ends meet. They dislike handouts, and they positively despise the government busybodies that go with it. They want jobs. Period.
@ beverly – I’ve been getting that idea too just from Netanyahu pushing Obama for a commitment to a red on Iran and supposedly not getting it. Followed by Obama’s refusal to meet Netanyahu. Given the combination of Obama’s dislike of Netanyahu (remember the open mike comment to Sarkozy) plus striking Iran before the elections puts pressure on Obama to support Israel for political reasons. If they wait until after, then Obama can let them twist in the wind. That’s the calculation I have heard in several places so it is very interesting to see you report extraordinary military activity in Israel. I would add that if they are going to attack Iran’s nuclear program, then now may be as good as it gets. Syria is otherwise occupied and Morsi just fired most of his generals. I think the Gippos will eventually attack Israel again, but I don’t think they are anywhere near ready to yet because they are sorting themselves out. Walter Russell Meade pointed out that domestically the Cairo embassy attack was an attempt by Salifists to make the Muslim Brotherhood look weak. Hamas has said right out that it no longer supports Iran and Hezbollah is keeping its head down because Assad is in no position to freely provide aid from Iran. Barry Rubin has had some convincing columns over the past year explaining why Israel was unlikely to take on Iran pointing out, among other things, Israel has a increasingly effective missile defense. He hasn’t said anything about it lately and my sense is that it has become clear to Netanyahu that Obama is not going to support Israel if it comes to the crunch. It is a high risk move, but from the Israeli perspective it may be the best time to remove the threat from Iran.
baklava Says: “She thought there was so much racism that he wouldn’t win.”
Shooting from the hip- She is a LIBERAL.
Shooting from the other hip- After 4 yrs of this fiasco, is she still your girlfriend 🙂
Papa Dan Says: “I don’t believe that 99% of the 48% are blissfully voting for Obama.”
Sorry Papa Dan, I hope you are right but I think you are thinking of another time. Back in 1906, the people of SF were hostile to the suggestion that the Govt would provide assistance for rebuilding after the earthquake.
Now compare that to the 2005 bunch down in New Orleans who wouldn’t order the school buses out to move people but blamed Bush for not doing enough.
A few years ago, my 90 yr old neighbor was living on a meger income. I suggested that she apply for foodstamps to help her along. It was as if I had slapped her in the face. I never brought it up again.
The problem that I see is that even if we do win this one with the ants beating the grasshoppers, I’m not sure those in leadership in the GOP have the knowledge or grit to turn the ship. That would require them to ignore the MSM and based on what we gave them in 2010 and what they have done with that vs: what they could have done. I’m just not sure. But I leave that in God’s hands. It will all turn out the way He desires.
I am of two minds on this election because there are too many unknown unknowns out there. Romney could win and be overwhelmed by rapid and unexpected collapse and even get blamed for it. But I will vote for Romney Ryan because they will at least try to take things in he right direction – ie build up the private sector. Without sudden collapse they could go all in on energy independence and create a lot of brown jobs. And if its feasible he could go after fusion like JFK went after the moon. Bussard’s boron fusion approach is promising and might get results much more quickly if it were given serious money. Energy seems to me to be the likely way the US can get its mojo back and not just by extraction but by aggressively going after new technologies. We are weakened terribly by our financial mistakes but energy is what keeps Modernity running.
I will also vote for Romney/Ryan because I believe they can get us back on track. If I didn’t believe that I would simply sit out the election and let Obama and his fan club reap the whirlwind that is surely coming. These times have a frightening feel to them, an unease that reminds me of when a hurricane is coming in.
There is an aspect of the Obama’s re-election that has been inadequately touched upon, that is if he is re-elected he will not only inherit an economic disaster but be largely the cause of it, likewise he will be responsible foreign disasters we can’t even guess at. Most of his supporters won’t understand the significance of that until the price of oil goes nuts and stagflation hits. At least some will, the MSM will try and blame a Republican congress and most Obamis will buy it, but some will not.
In any event the silly, immature generation who could not tell the difference between a vote for American Idol and a Presidential election will have to contend with new realities, a post America America sort to speak. Such a people is incapable of maintaining a free country or a prosperous one. I wonder how they will respond? In any event they will have to live with the mess they created. There are invisible forces of history, silliness and laziness seem to be two of them.
Parker a civil war or more specifically succession by the red states, which I would support, would only come about if there was mainstream leadership, like a Governor of a mid-western state. I don’t see it yet, although I hope it comes.
T
Romney will certainly win the popular vote based on 2008 and 2010. I don’t see how he can win the electoral vote.
Beverly,
The email you posted looks like it came from a Messianic Jew, that is, confused Christian playing at being Jewish. That crowd, although well intended, is not known for their strong grasp of reality. They are certainly not integrated into the Israeli mentality and therefore not able to interpret what they seeing. The IDF would be unlikely to advertise its intentions so clearly that a confused pastor in Jerusalem could read them.
You’re right that this election will be as much or more a test of the voters, Americans in general, as/ than the candidates.
The thing is, as Americans, we’ve been blessed to live in a country and system that’s largely stable and (relatively) well-functioning, no matter which party wins from election to election. Compared to other countries, our elections are not (have not been) existential so to speak, not about a radically defining (and radically consequential) choice, not a matter of life and death. At the end of the day, America remains America, defined by e.g. its Constitution, and not the contingent fact of what politicians are in power. Whether from election to election the POTUS is R or D doesn’t *fundamentally* affect the ordinary lives of Americans, or at least it feels that way to Americans.
So in a way, despite all the furor at election time, most Americans generally feel (with some good reason) complacent about elections. Americans feel they can afford to pick their POTUS as if it were a mere popularity contest, or for whatever reason at all. It’s not the end of the world, no matter who wins.
But Obama does want to fundamentally America (and IMO will succeed in doing so, if he gets a second term).
If Obama (god forbid) wins, how fateful SC Justice Roberts’ words will have been, when he said it was not up to the Supreme Court to save Americans from this terrible legislation, and left it up to American voters, American voters’ responsibility, to save themselves. Those words will be applicable to much else besides Obamacare.
One reason I’m not giving in to pessimism (yet) is the quality of our candidates. Romney’s past history and experience shows that this is not a man who, faced with a seemingly insurmountable problem/ challenge, remains passive, or panics, or despairs, or allows himself to fail. Romney projects calm and confidence; but I don’t think he’s a man given to overconfidence– otherwise he would not have succeeded as he has in the sorts of challenging enterprises he’s tackled. (Unlike Obama/DNC, he’s not given to bragging or boasting or beating his chest, trying to convince others about his self-confidence.)
Someone who (with a team he put together) had his rate of success in turning around dying businesses, or won as a Republican in MA, or tackled the complicated mess of the Olympics, etc., is not someone who remains paralyzed or helpless before polls or overwhelming MSM bias or whatever.
And recall, he surged to victory from being behind in the polls in quite a few primaries.
And I can’t think of anyone better as a spokesperson for the best of Republican/ conservative values than Paul Ryan.
Romney/Ryan had all the momentum, until (ugh) Akin happened– a big speed bump, which the DNC/MSM took full advantage of (and reanimated that base’s enthusiasm), leading into the conventions. At this point I believe (backed up by polls) that the race is neck and neck. (Any post-convention Obama “bounce” advantage seems very tenuous and fluid to me.)
We’ll see. Given the MSM’s overwhelming bias, disinformation, muting of anything unfavorable to Obama, all of us as citizens have more of a role to play in speaking up and trying to persuade our fellow citizens re what’s at stake in this election. Or at least, gently, politely, letting people know certain underreported facts (and correcting misapprehensions) about what’s actually going on or has happened in Obama’s term.
Bob From Virginia Says:
September 15th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
With violence and thuggery, of course. Given the choice between eating and starvation, how else can they respond?
The young people of post-America America will regress to the mean of the pre-American world.
Rickl wrote “With violence and thuggery, of course. Given the choice between eating and starvation, how else can they respond?”
The behavior of some Argentines verifies your opinion. There they had economic problems so bad that mobs of cultured, educated Argentines attacked and ransacked grocery stores because they were hungry. And Argentina is one of the world’s great food producers!
In 1997, poll responses were about 33%. This year they are 9%. Who are the people who refuse to answer? The polling organizations don’t know, because they won’t answer.
That said, I did some walking this weekend asking people whether they had made up their minds about the presidential election. Almost all had, the Obama supporters had no reasons, just thought that things were great, had no problems with higher gas prices, etc. My husband calls a lot of the responses “tribal”. In other words, Democrats have successfully shoved people into little labeled boxes and they are no longer Americans, but Union members, African Americans, government workers, Hispanic, etc. and make their responses based on that. I think there is a lot of uneasiness about change, technological, social and cultural. There is no clear path ahead, but lots of people want to be told what to expect. It doesn’t seem to matter whether what they hear is truth or a pack of lies and they don’t seem to have the ability to figure out which is which. They don’t want to be confused with facts, they just want not to have to face any more uncertaintly and will go with anyone who tells them that everything will be taken care of and they can watch American Idol and Football with a clear conscience. Which i would not mind if they were not taking me, my children and grandchildren down the path to perdition with them because of their cowardice.