How did that war on terror go?
It is commonly accepted that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were disasters, and that the “war on terror” (whatever that means) wasn’t won. But are these things true? Here’s a discussion that might be of interest. See what you think.
By the way, about the idea that the Bush administration thought the Iraq aftermath would be easy (“a cakewalk”), I beg to differ and I wrote about it in this post from 2005.
The problems in the present campaign against Iran – and they are many – stem from the fact that Iran is a much bigger country than Iraq with a larger population and a more religiously fanatical leadership unafraid to kill vast numbers of its own people, plus the IRGC has a structure that makes it exceptionally difficult to break, with power to control or threaten to control the vital Strait of Hormuz. In addition, we no longer tolerate having any boots on the ground, or nation-building of any complexity or length, and the Iranian leaders are well aware of that fact.
What the Iraq and Afghanistan wars devolved into was years of taxpayer money poured into military contractors and NGOs for services of dubious value to American security, regardless of how the military components of these wars actually went, with eager participation of both parties in Congress.
I do not think there is an electorally significant fraction of Americans eager to repeat these experiences in Iran or anywhere else. I forget what is supposed to happen after “fool me three times”.
NIketas:
We have military bases all over the world and many are of much more dubious benefit. I happen to think our postwar presence in both countries – Iraq and Afghanistan – did have some benefit, and was being maintained without a huge footprint. However, I’m not arguing – nor do I think the panel in that video is arguing – that we should have stayed indefinitely. But both pullouts were utterly mishandled.
FWIW, the “War On Terror” is never won. Ever. Terror is a concept. To its devotees an incredibly useful one psychologically. Fighting it is fought upon cultural battlefields, in the war of ideas, where it is unlikely to ever be vanquished.
Regarding Iraq and Afghanistan? Disasters. Unmitigated. Still being paid for, and years possibly decades from being paid off. Oh and the credit card balance keeps getting added to while it’s happening btw. My favorite is still that we “spent 20 years and $2.5 trillion to replace the Taliban with the Taliban”. It’s sardonically funny because it’s true.
Democracy promotion and “nation building” are fools errands. The Middle East is not a place where its denizens deserve the former or are really capable of the latter. It’s a cultural dumpster fire, and Bush and the neocons proved what many who advised otherwise had been saying so for years before.
Everything is a waste in those wastelands. Most especially dollars. Even more so blood.
Except the twelvers and IRGC with a nuke and ICBMs are not the same as the Taliban or Sadam, but peddlers of conventional wisdom ignore that fundamental. Because hindsight is perfect.
Reasons.
Unwillin Bar-Kiss:
They make that point in the video – that of course it can’t be “won.” It’s always ongoing. But has it been mostly successful in the last 25 years? That’s the question they try to answer.
If you haven’t watched the video, you might want to take a listen. You might still end up disagreeing, of course.
This has been a recurring theme on Commentary for some time now – that Iraq has largely been pacified and that the lack of large successful terror attacks on U.S. soil is evidence of some real success in the war on terror. This is the first full podcast devoted to the subject as far as I know.
I thought the podcast was great and very thought provoking. I love Commentary. One of the very few organizations, along with this website, that actually get any of my money. Thanks for posting.
I lived it. I don’t need to watch the video to know I’d disagree. It might taste different in Ukraine and Hormuz and elsewhere, but it smells the same and I’d subjectively suggest there’s more now than there was before.
And as long as this country refuses to act pragmatically in its own interest, not what others convince it to think are its own interests, it will probably get worse.
The ME is the worst place on Earth. Its people suck. A nuke could scarcely improve the place.
How many times do you let your teenager wreck the car before you stop letting him have the keys? Oh, he swears he’s just going to pick up his study buddies for a late session at the library. What, you don’t think he should study? Doesn’t studying benefit him?
How about we seek a solution that provides at least most of the benefits of studying at the library without letting him borrow the car which he swears he won’t wreck this time like he did the last two times?
Commentary gets paid to put this stuff out with a straight face–their revenue is mostly from grants, donations, and assets and not their magazine, with the vast majority of their spending on salaries, especially John Podhoretz’s–if they kick some of that funding my way I’ll pretend to believe it with a straight face, but not for free.
— Unwilling Bar-Kiss
But state-building is entirely possible there, and has been done many times. Bush allowed the establishment class to convert what should have been a straightforward state-building exercise into a nation-building operation. He also allowed the Left to get away with years of lying about it.
We don’t have the option of not being involved in the ME. 911 is proof of that, to say nothing of the economic and religious factors involved.
The War on Terror is the same war as Israel vs. Hamas, and America vs. Iran now. It never ended. Obama and Biden’s handlers surrendered on certain fronts, but the war continues.
“We don’t have the option of not being involved in the ME.”
Absolutism like this is what continues producing failure. We’ve been doing the same thing over and over again for almost 60 years in that sandbox expecting different results. We are insane. Of course “the war continues.”
For god’s sake, let them kill each other. They were homicidal head chopping goat thieves before finding oil and it turns out they’re still homicidal head chopping goat thieves pumping it too. They’ll be homicidal head chopping goat thieves once the oil’s all gone. We sell them the weapons to do it and we can keep selling them I’m sure. We promise, Lockheed, we promise!