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Open thread 12/3/2025 — 31 Comments

  1. Hello Neo readers,

    I’m the fellow who told his tale exactly one month ago today of being married to a TDS sufferer (although I was/am the one subject to suffering) on Neo’s Open Thread. “Chloe” had long been a very much apolitical legacy liberal by default, when she swallowed an overdose of the TDS poison, went from there to being a very political lefty, continually proselytizing me, and imposing a major damper on our marriage relationship. I wrote the month-ago narrative after a major crisis point, of which I wrote,

    “I’d looked forward to a retirement in which I was going to live peacefully and harmoniously, in which the tugs and jolts of the world might leave me unscathed (hadn’t I earned at least that?). I’d had one [a peaceful and harmonious retirement], for a good stretch.” But, I continued, “The most recent stretch has rendered that vision a cruel practical joke. I had not married this, I never would have chosen to marry this, but reality intervened in an unexpected way.” But after that crisis point, I wrote, “I think and hope a bridge has finally been crossed. I cling to a glimmer of hope now.”

    That was November 3. There have been no more “CHLOE, STOP” incidents, and only one time did I get up and leave the room because of what I feared might be coming. Our interactions, I believe, have become easier, more relaxed.

    A couple of weeks ago, Chloe remarked that she came across an old photograph in which she said I was looking at her lovingly, and (she remarked) I don’t look at her that way now. She said she was feeling like I didn’t love her now. (After literal years of what I’d been subjected to, I’m not real surprised that I’ve been looking at her differently.)

    My job now is to find a way to restore what had been, but not exactly. The toothpaste is out of the tube, but I nonetheless have to restore something of a facsimile of what once was. I have a hard time forgiving, but I’ve been making progress. However, I may forgive, eventually, but I can’t forget. I’m just not made that way.

    I sincerely hope that her reaction to that photograph hints at a measure of self-reflection which I believe was not there before, self-reflection that I had not heretofore been able to activate in my dealings with Chloe. As I just now wrote above, our interactions have been easier, more relaxed. I am grateful for that.

    Shifting gears now, I think that human consciousness is multi-layered. Chloe has regularly been imbibing left wing agitprop, and a significant part of that agitprop has to do with wishing serious ill upon MAGA types. (I’ve never called my self a MAGA-anything, but I do get swept up in the dragnet.) Anyway, I’m pretty convinced that somewhere among Chloe’s layers of consciousness is the venomous ill-will that wished for Charlie Kirk’s demise. No, I’m not imagining that Chloe wishes me dead, but I am suggesting that what she assiduously reads has infected at least one of those consciousness layers, and in turn, it has affected her interactions with me (and affected my responses).

    I am astonished at how TDS really is an epidemic pathology, an unusually widespread and severe one. I am fascinated at how, when I search for where and how and WHY did it come into being, with such a level of intensity and bile, that through my attempts to dig deep, I keep arriving at more and more facets to what might contribute to the ultimate overall answer. To cover the ground fairly might involve the equivalent of twelve doctoral dissertations, it strikes me as that complex, and more so.

    Enough. Sincere thanks once again to all those who read and responded back on November 3. Keep the faith!

  2. I like the tiny house concept. I wish tiny houses had been available in my college and 20-something days.

  3. 3i atlas–Thank you for sharing your experience. I am glad for the forward process toward healing in your marital relationship. I believe that fear and hate drive the TDS adherent. There is no question that it therefore will have personal and civil consequences. We regularly pray for our family, friends, neighbors and countrymen that have succumbed to such ruinous behavior. Jesus’ words to “love our enemies” and even “do good to those who spitefully use us” go a long way in protecting oneself and society from the contemptuous outcomes that fear and hate promote. I may be wrong, but I trust that our prayers for these people fill the requirement of “loving” and “doing good”.

  4. 3i atlas, thanks for the update, and the improvement in your marriage is good news. The only suggestion I could offer would be, now that it’s somewhat better, is to use positive reinforcement. In those more relaxed moments now, give her a kiss, or a sign of your appreciation. It doesn’t have to be over-the-top. I have not forgotten to pray for you. Along with Sharon W, I pray regularly for an end to the hatred sweeping through our nation and our families.

  5. I am cheered by videos of tiny/trailer homes that feature empty nesters and retirees.

    I am saddened by videos that feature young people who have put their hopes of family on hold – or who no longer even entertain that dream in their postmodern worldview.

  6. I really “dig” the tiny house tour; I’d seen them but I’d never been treated to a tour of one. I’m mucho aligned with the parsimony mindset involved. Good stuff!

  7. “Chloe has regularly been imbibing left wing agitprop, and a significant part of that agitprop has to do with wishing serious ill upon MAGA types. ”

    3i atlas,

    Thanks for the update. If you have any insights to TDS, I would really like to know. I’ve been struggling to understand this condition for years now. My BiL is particularly affected and makes posts and comments about Trump and MAGAs despite a large portion of his family falling into that category. Even more disturbing is that he is very active in his Catholic church and espouses comments about love, forgiveness, etc from a Catholic perspective but seems oblivious to the huge amount of hate he possess.

    A mental condition that’s extremely puzzling to me.

  8. FASCINATING head post.

    I want to share something of significant interest here, “How Psychology Became Ideology”. Only 30+ minutes talk by Hannah Spier, MD — a young Norwegian Psychiatrist who is taking up the cause of fighting the corruption of helping professions, especially talk therapies.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN-7T-pRjd4

    Her YT subscribers number under 5,000. Quite small. But she posts actively on Substack, and offers her talks to members. The small fee may win me over. She’s very good!

    Oh. And she tartly names her effort “Psychobabble.” Wonderful.

  9. physicsguy

    Even more disturbing is that he is very active in his Catholic church and espouses comments about love, forgiveness, etc from a Catholic perspective but seems oblivious to the huge amount of hate he possess.
    A mental condition that’s extremely puzzling to me.

    Nothing new here. We love the good guys—and hate the bad guys. In group, out group. Group affiliation. Sixty years ago, Tom Lehrer nailed it in his opening patter for National Brotherhood Week.

    There are people who do not love their fellow human beings—and I HATE people like that.

    Tom Lehrer also nailed it in a song from the same album in The Folk Song Army

    We are The Folk Song Army
    Everyone of us CARES
    We all hate poverty, war, and injustice
    Unlike the rest of you squares.

    I suspect that group affiliation/good guys versus bad guys is somewhat stronger on the Democrat side than it is on the Republican side. A cousin, a yellow dog Democrat in dark, deepest NYC, wrote after last years election that “New York artists (including her and her husband) are very upset at Trump’s election.” Group affiliation. Good guys versus bad guys.

  10. Gringo,

    I have to disagree. The symptoms are not simply group identification. It goes much deeper than that. Like I indicated, my BiL does not recognize the disconnect between his beliefs in God, forgiveness, charity, and the overwhelming hate he pours out towards Trump and conservatives. Read the article mark linked. The psych professional follows up on his original article and shows, to me, that this is a pathological condition, not just “us vs them” thinking.

  11. physicsguy, I’ll venture to point out a “solution” to the quandary—albeit a “explanation” that’s been offered may times before:

    If one firmly believes that Trump and his supporters are Nazis, or Nazi-adjacent, then it is the cutting edge of morality, ethics and—yes—LOVE (not to mention spirituality) to want those people DEAD…and/or GONE.

    The Democrats and their media and academics cohorts have succeeded in persuading a great many people that in fact, Trump and his supporters are Nazis…or Nazi-adjacent.

    ERGO…

    (But we all know this, don’t we?)

    Cf. How a great many of the moral, ethical and loving folk believe that the State of Israel MUST be destroyed FIRST THE SAKE OF HUMANITY.

    Dreyfus Jew Trump is merely a similar manifestation of this madness.

    (The exasperating—the unbelievable—aspect of all this is seeing how many otherwise decent, caring, loving and intelligent people—AND JEWS—are caught up in this hateful, vindictive and insane web…)

  12. physicsguy: “If you have any insights to TDS, I would really like to know. I’ve been struggling to understand this condition for years now.”

    That makes two of us, actually scores of us. Boatloads of us.

    For Chloe, is was an extreme, to put it too mildly, distaste for Trump’s personality. (In fact, I agree in good part with that.) Then it expanded into the left-winger sphere. Etc.

    While I’m not going to attempt twelve doctoral dissertations, I will try to categorize facets, off the top of my head.

    1. Aforementioned personality facet. Trump is a crude blowhard. Wants to grab women by the p—-.
    2. The jerk facet. Related, he does not say what polite people say. He prefers soldiers who did not get captured. Carly Fiorina did not have a pretty face.
    3. The ick facet. He’s racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, you know the drill. People desperately need a devil to hate, and he’s it, Emmanuel Goldstein.
    4. A class facet. He’s not our kind, dear. CEO but somehow fits with the blue-collar guys.
    5. Economic facet. Blue-collar-ish but billionaire. Who is this guy?
    7. Upsets the apple cart facet. I recently saw a VDH video about how Trump upsets the post-Cold War status quo, like wanting NATO to pull more if its own weight. A threat.
    8. His own man facet. He refuses to honor the mainstream gods and shibboleths of the times. No political correctness bullshit.
    9. Unabashed patriotism factor. He professes love for America, does not and will not apologize for its flaws. Others can do that.
    10. A separate class facet. He’s not of the paper-pusher class. Works with real objects.
    11. The challenge facet. He challenges people’s dearly clung-to beliefs. In-your-face and very unapologetically.

    None of these, singly, explains it. Even all of these together don’t explain it. They do not explain the absolute visceral bile, the intensity, the insanity, the tendency to foam at the mouth and act irrationally, stupidly, murderously.

    To complete the promised twelve, I’ll just add an omnibus dissertation that attempts to weave all this together into a Unified Field Theory. But I don’t have the key. Do I even have a clue?

  13. I was watching a complete unknown, the bob dylan bio, which presents a rather sentimental view of pete seeger and co, without all the baggage of his far left affiliations

    obviously, as some of the background to some of his songs like ‘masters of war’ which simplifies the east west conflict to a ridiculous degree, its suggested that dylan wasn’t all in the endpoint, that seeger (as an amateur observer I thought chalamet did a pretty good job in copying dylans mannerism, OTM, they noted he didn’t attend his ownNobel Prize ceremony, if memory serves, seeger tried to repurpose Guantanamera, the unofficial anthem of the island nation, that rubs a raw wound, this sentimentalism, that seems to afflict a certain substrata of musicians was present in Don Henley’s work as with Jackson Browne, even at the end of the Cold war when the former missed how Reagan had ended it, or it might have been a bankshot against Bush hard to tell,

    this attitude toward progressive politics, as with Sydney Lumet in Condor, along with Robert Redford, a generation later you have Doug Liman’s Bourne series, where the black hats are clearly pinned on some, and the white hats, well there are none, among the government, except possibly chris cooper, the screenwriter was subtle in showing the bigger conspiracy of the deep state,

    its not accidental, that damon and afflect are fans of thedeconstructionist historian howard Zinn, from their appearance in Good Will Hunting

  14. 3i atlas, than you very much for the update. I’m glad to hear that your relationship has improved and you’re working on it.

    Please be careful.

  15. I’ve been meaning to mention to this group that I recently read Eli Sharabi’s book “Hostage” and it was excellent. Read it on a flight to the west coast in a few hours.

    What struck me was there wasn’t a single moment of self-pity. Just strength, courage and inspiration. I highly recommend it.

    (Some may recall his wife and daughters were, unbeknownst to him, murdered by Hamas, though they told him they were alive.)

  16. 3i atlas, I think #1 – #4 are big reasons for many people. They never get beyond the personal distaste. #1 is a big thing for many women, I believe.

    For me, and for my Type A husband, #5 – #11 are pluses, not minuses. However, many people fear change.

    physicsguy, mark, that follow-up opinion piece at the NY Post is indeed very good. The therapist says that reactions to his first piece and to his Fox News appearance amply demonstrate the diseased emotional state these people live in.

  17. for the middle brow set, there was the west wing which was sorkin’s (but as important martin sheen nee estevez),0 fan fiction when the Clinton administration proved too pedestrian for their tastes,
    certainly the Obama’s tried to portray this redemptive version of lefty politics,

    sheen who I had recalled his far left politics
    certainly going back to the 80s re Central America, it’s not lost on me, he was the narrator of Oliver Stone’s desinforma, about the assassinations, which inspired a certain degree of self loathing among Americans, that Max Holland would debunk much of it, didn’t really matter, as dw griffith put it ‘when you write with lightning’ see the Watergate fairy tale, that Bob Woodward used as his calling card, when a GS-18 with a grudge, was purposed as an honest whistleblower, the more complicated details of Mark Felt’s life were left on the cutting room floor, in the Liam Neeson hagiography, Stephen Sodebergh tried some of this moral equivalence in Syriana, which was supposed to be based on Bob Baer’s memoir, well very loosely, but it has had limited purchase,

    the brat pack, which included the more nobler sheen, emilio, was full of second generation lefties include rob lowe, who did turn out to be, the black sheep in the end,

  18. physicsguy raises a valid point, that TDS goes well beyond the usual tribal group dynamics.

    I can speculate, but I’m really not sure what supercharges the TDS we see today.

    Back in the 80s I was a Bay Area leftist. We hated Reagan, but it wasn’t like TDS today.

  19. 3i atlas,

    Thank you for sharing your story. Very interesting. I wish all the best for you and your wife!

  20. Tiny houses are great if you are retired; single; have no friends or family visiting for more than a few hours; don’t have books, musical instruments, or hobbies with physical objects; never decorate for holidays; don’t cook; and apparently have no car (or all that stuff would be in your garage).

    It also helps if you can put them on a lovely lot, preferably not next to a trailer park, which is what these resemble; and can afford a large storage unit for the stuff you can’t keep in the house.

    Other than that, the hidden features are quite fun, and I would put one in my backyard as a reading retreat or guest house.

  21. Planet Taliban and the Afghan DC shooter.

    (The plot thickens changes direction and extreme vigilance is required.)

    “Bombshell Report Reveals Shocking New Motive for DC National Guard Shooter”—
    https://pjmedia.com/matt-margolis/2025/12/03/bombshell-report-reveals-shocking-new-motive-for-dc-national-guard-shooter-n4946678.

    Opening graf:

    The shooting of two National Guard members in Washington last week has taken a jarring new turn, and the emerging theory about the gunman’s motive points to a far deeper national security threat…”

    Good job, “Biden”!

  22. The standout feature of TDS, IMO, is the viciousness, the hate.
    Logic, observation, group psychology, and history tell me that the Left is susceptible to something like evil incarnate, and like anti-semitism, it never really goes away. I have well-founded fears that we are in great peril of having it destroy our society and basically take over the world. Sounds hyperbolic, I know, but the point is that I am 100% convinced of the danger.
    And yet, I have nothing like hate in my heart for the vast majority of people who are advocating for these dangerous policies and developments—let alone my beloved family and friends. I am also willing to have any kind of discussion they’re willing to have in candor and good will.
    Why oh why do I see the humanity and perspective of these people, but they are infected with some kind of werewolf virus that turns them into beasts focused only on personal destruction??

  23. I know two people living happily in tiny houses. Both are single women, one in her twenties, the other retired. Interestingly, both have access to a “real” house next door where they can socialize and sometimes spread out a little, although they live mainly in their own tiny spaces. The retired woman’s home is on her son’s property; they share meals sometimes and visit back and forth. The young woman shared a house with several friends while she built her tiny house herself. On completion she parked it in the friends’ backyard. She does use some space in the friends’ house for a workspace; she is an illustrator whose supplies really won’t fit in her efficient little home. I think the availability of a larger space for occasional use makes everyday life in the tiny space much more do-able.

    Both of their houses are completely charming and full of clever little tucked-in spaces under stairs and such. I don’t think I, personally, could live in them too long without feeling claustrophobic, but the ways I spend my time now require space. It might be different if my life were more contained. I do remember, once in my early 20s, visiting someone who lived in a retro classic trailer on the shore of a lake, with beautiful clever little wooden cabinets and any number of charming hidey-holes to make space, and lovely wide-open views outside the tiny trailer windows. I was entranced.

  24. Aesop Fan — on top of all you just listed, they really aren’t that affordable if you want to be connected to utilities and have a real toilet. The connections and land make them about $300K. If you can build them yourself, you’ll save some money on labor.

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