Trust in the integrity of the voting process
Jeff Bezos wrote this in an op-ed that appeared in the WaPo on Monday:
Voting machines must meet two requirements. They must count the vote accurately, and people must believe they count the vote accurately. The second requirement is distinct from and just as important as the first.
Interesting. Let’s say for the sake of argument that the first requirement is actually met. How about the second? After all, there’s a certain black box quality to such machines – at least for the average person – that paper ballots don’t have.
But the machines are only a small part of what’s needed in order for voters to believe in the security of elections. That’s a multi-step process. Clean voter rolls. ID to vote. No vote by mail except under extraordinary circumstances. No automatic mailing of ballots to everyone on the voter lists. Reliable signature checking for the small number of votes that are allowed by mail, with bipartisan poll workers making the decisions about the validity of signatures. Witness signatures, too, for the mail-in ballots, as well as envelopes that are kept rather than being thrown away, and could be matched up if needed in a disputed election. Watermarks or other special identifiers on the ballots. No ballots allowed to be counted that come in after voting day, and postmarks necessary. No ballot harvesting. No ballot drop boxes. And – although I think this part is less important – one day for voting and have it be a national holiday. Or at least, a shortened period of early voting.
Maybe then people would gain respect for the results. But is there any chance the Democrats would agree to all of this? I strongly doubt it.
I don’t think we do signature comparison on mailed absentee ballots in NC. What we do, rather, is require the voter to request an absentee ballot, and to require a copy of the voter’s photo ID with the return envelope, along with voter and witness signature. Election workers check the voter’s eligibility and ID before approving the ballot to be counted. And no mass mailings of ballots.
Electronic voting machines should be outlawed everywhere, replaced by paper ballots and optical scan tabulators which do not have an internet connection.
Pennsylvania once in a primary I had to show ID, Democrats scratched that by the election.
I have 0 trust in mail and electronic voting, both are so fraught with potential fraud it isn’t funny.
My thinking is they need to cheat and win at all cost. I would bet we will see that in a week.
Already that’s more than Biden’s 2020 margin for Michigan.
Given these kind of shenanigans it seems premature to start looking for issues that may have lost the Presidential election: the election would need to be decided by legitimately voted ballots before that could even be an issue.
It’s being stolen right now as we watch.
Niketas,
No disrespect, but please don’t use the word “shenanigans” for this. I know many do. A shenanigan is dropping an ice cube down somebody’s shirt. This is extreme fraud. One of the most destructive to the foundation of democracy.
I recall the moment in my youth when I discovered that places like the Soviet Union held elections. Really, I thought? Oh, entirely bogus elections.
Ye don’t a weatherman to tell…that Bezos is full of it.
And WRT Michigan, it looks like we’re well on our way to another round of free, fair and transparent elections.
(No doubt the mostest ever…)
Of course we could call off the whole thing RIGHT NOW.
(Save a lot of money—and anxiety—that way…)
“ ABC mistakenly airs election results declaring Harris winner of key swing state”—
https://nypost.com/2024/10/30/media/abc-mistakenly-airs-fake-election-results-declaring-harris-winner-of-key-swing-state/
Pretending that abortion is the main issue might be window dressing for vote fraud. Exit polling would reveal something, but how do you exit poll mail-in voters?
@Banned Lizard:Pretending that abortion is the main issue
Given the narrow margins in the swing states, ANY issue could be presented as the issue that cost the election. Something that only matters to one-eared sewer scrubbers, perhaps.
Given the lack of security in the ballots and their counting, I’d say THAT’s the REAL issue.
I guess the impossibility of exit polling mail-in voters is the reason why it’s going to take till Kingdom Come to decide who wins? It’s also a nice cover for the shenanigans going on behind the scenes.
Neo, your list of election integrity proposals is a list of very reasonable things. So reasonable that one can’t object to them all and be plausibly concerned with election integrity. Yet the Democrats do object to them all, both at the top of the party and in the rank-and-file.
So one can only conclude that the Democrats as a whole intend to cheat — indeed are already cheating — and the Democrat rank-and-file are OK with that.
Combine that with the widespread belief among Trump supporters that he is going to win in a landslide, and you can see the danger we’re in. This can’t end well. Exactly how it fails and how much misery ensues are still open questions, but we’re in for a lot of pain as a country if things proceed as predicted.
And yet all I see from the Democrats is “Full speed ahead” with their radical agenda, many seemingly oblivious to what’s about to happen and many others actually relishing it.
Which I guess is a long-winded way of saying the second-most quoted line from Star Wars: I’ve got a bad feeling about this.
So one can only conclude that the Democrats as a whole intend to cheat — indeed are already cheating — and the Democrat rank-and-file are OK with that.
mkent:
My impression is that rank-and-file Dems keep that as a very vague impression.
It’s not in their personal interest to question such things. Besides the Other Side is So Bad.
Yes, we are entering new, dangerous territory. I’m optimistic Trump will win, but what happens before, during or after that depends on how the Deep State wants to play it.
The Deep State isn’t just looking at a setback; they are looking at decapitation. They won’t like that.
@ neo: “… one day for voting and have it be a national holiday.” I like that idea as well.
As many here already know, in Australia they mandate all eligible citizens must vote. Not something we want to employ here, I suspect. But I believe they also dedicate a special day of celebration to their voting day.
Given that we already have quite a few productivity reducing federal holidays, if we want to create another one, perhaps we should remove an existing one from the list.
I would vote for either the unofficial Junteenth or the official MLK days; followed down the priority list by Columbus Day and then [shudder] Labor Day. Some might prefer President’s Day over Labor Day?
One of the huge benefits of democracy and elections is that they are supposed to produce acceptance from the losers. However, in their pursuit of “every last vote” the Democrats have opened the voting rules so wide, that the average person can easily imagine fraud, whether or not it is in fact occurring. This leads to huge parts of the electorate refusing to accept the results. See 2020 election.
When you don’t have acceptance what you get is a legitimacy crisis. The current ruling powers think that they can just crack down on this and force people into line (see J6ers) but unless they are willing to go full totalitarian like the Soviet Union, China, or North Korea it won’t work. You’ll just end up like the end stage eastern bloc soviet republics with a demoralized population that isn’t invested in the survival of the system.
I just don’t see the Democrats having the statesmen to identify the problem and compromise to turn it around. They are always just a few demographic changes away from permanent power, and sadly that’s all they appear to care about.
I’m also worried that even in the event of a Trump win, the GOP is also too corrupt to understand that they need to force through (Obamacare style) massive election reforms like Neo has proposed. Are we trying to bell the cat?
If this isn’t fixed the legitimacy crisis will continue, ending likely in either a financial crisis from Democrat overspending (and then probably desperate overtaxing ala UK Labour) or a military crisis (see US military recruiting struggles) or who knows what else. See 1860 Secession crisis, although I doubt that scenario plays out again.
Like the citizens of the late Roman Empire the US citizen is realizing they are an internal proletariat. The system doesn’t work for them, so why should they keep the system alive? Contrast with the early Roman Republic which could lose army after army to Hannibal and yet still win through. The difference? Legitimacy.
TLDR; I agree with @mkent