On abortion as the #1 issue
t worries me, the notion that there are so many people in the voting public for whom it is possible that abortion might be the #1, #2 and #3 (…) issue. The economy could crash, the speech police could start arresting people, trial by jury could be thrown on the discard pile, their 401(k)s could be confiscated to cover the government debt, but as long as they can rest assured that those annoying “fetuses” can be eliminated whenever they decide it’s time, they can be okay with all of the rest. I really don’t understand it, I guess.
I’ll try to explain. Firstly, the women for whom that other list – the economy could crash, etc. – would be secondary don’t see the list as the likely consequence of voting for the Democrats. They think the economy will be good enough, trial by jury is going fine if jurors convict evil Donald Trump, and the like. You get the idea. It’s not as though, if not for abortion, they’d otherwise be conservative Republicans.
And although I suppose there are women who have abortions because they find the growing fetus and prospect of a child “annoying,” I think that for more women there’s a sense of true terror at an unwanted pregnancy. It’s often far far more than “annoying” – would that it were only that.
As a woman who has been pregnant and borne a deeply wanted child, I nevertheless found pregnancy very difficult and can well imagine what it might be like to experience it without choosing to do so. I’m not saying every woman feels this way, but even with a wanted pregnancy there is a sense of being taken over by something alien to your entire previous experience, and the physical and emotional discomfort that goes with it can be quite intense, as well as fear of the unknown. The woman’s entire body undergoes a change that is far-reaching and encompasses profound hormonal and emotional upheaval, the re-arrangements of her visceral organs, and then a childbirth that usually is very painful.
With a wanted child, it’s very much worth it for the end result – which is a child. With an unwanted child, the woman either has to raise that child and be its mother for the rest of her life – which sometimes works out fine but sometimes does not – or give it away, which is another wrenching experience.
Some woman do undertake abortions casually. I submit that most don’t see it that way. I’ve been fortunate enough to never have had one, and I don’t think I ever could have done so. But that doesn’t mean I don’t see how difficult and profound the decision often is.
It may be my imagination, but it seems to me that some of the most outspoken women who would list abortion as their #1 issue are often past their childbearing years anyway.
Any number of people have ended up in situations where they feel there are no good choices. A large fraction of those people had good choices at one time, but they made choices which had consequences that foreclosed other choices at later times. The kinds of choices that land one in prison, for example, or permanently crippled, or dead.
There are some women who did not make the choices that resulted in an unwanted pregnancy, but for those (the vast majority) who did make choices, the ones that led potentially to an unwanted pregnancy were not a mystery to them at the time they were made.
The road to an unwanted pregnancy has many offramps (most of which are inexpensive, safe, and effective) before the last exit, getting an abortion.
As for wrenching decisions, well, sometimes we do find caring for others to be a burden. A profoundly disabled child already born, an elderly parent with dementia; I’m sure a legal method of eliminating these burdens would involve wrenching decisions too… and yet for now we have as a society kept some of these methods illegal in these cases. But not only is the slope slippery, it’s iced, greased, and covered with banana peels and ball bearings.
The Democrats in my state are using abortion as the #1, often only, issue this year.
“even with a wanted pregnancy there is a sense of being taken over by something alien to your entire previous experience, and the physical and emotional discomfort that goes with it can be quite intense, as well as fear of the unknown. The woman’s entire body undergoes a change that is far-reaching and encompasses profound hormonal and emotional upheaval, the re-arrangements of her visceral organs, and then a childbirth that usually is very painful.”
_______
Doesn’t that imply that a pregnant woman is the least qualified to make a judgement here? Seriously, what you are saying is that it messes up your mind.
So far as I can see there are only two consistent views:
1. We are talking about a human being, so abortion should be permitted only when homicide would normally be.
2. We are not talking about a human being, so it should be regulated as we regulate how we regulate the treatment of animals.
All else is sentimental.
Neo’s summation is spot on; there are valid reasons why abortion is such an important issue to some women. Does the left incessantly fear monger and exploiting these womens’ concerns and worries? Yes. But the worries and concerns are valid and visceral. Very personal. More so than any economic issue.
I say that as someone who is mildly pro-life, but who respects the arguments for legalized abortion (in the first trimester). I just find the arguments against slightly more persuasive.
All that being said, I understand where Peter Sells is coming from. It can be exasperating to encounter people (and I know a couple) who abortion as the single issue voters. Granted many of them are liberal/left wing in general and would never vote Republican even if abortion disappeared for good. But, I personally know a few people are relatively moderate otherwise, even conservative on certain issues (such as gun rights, crime, immigration), but invariably vote Democrat because of abortion. It does get a bit maddening.
Of note, the reverse is largely no longer true. When I first started paying attention to politics (in the late 80s): there were plenty of voters (often working or middle class Catholics) who were FDR type liberals on most issues but voted GOP because of abortion. That continued throughout the 90s and into the 2000s a little. But it’s gone now. Those voters have moved right in general and are just Republicans
Here Comes the Equestrian Statue
The Democrats/Left are using access to abortion to scaremonger on the fence voters to vote for Kamala and other Democrats this cycle. Even in my home state of Maine, which has among the most liberal pro-abortion laws on the books, this tactic is deployed. The people that promote it as the top issue know full well that access to abortion is not threatened and that Donald Trump has vowed to oppose any sort of Federal ban. They are, cynically, using this non-issue as a get out the vote scheme.
I can’t speak to a woman’s feelings while pregnant, but I can say that the appropriate time for those considerations to be at the forefront of their minds is BEFORE engaging in the activity which is commonly associated with that particular side effect.
With that said I agree completely with Peter’s point regardless of how fearful they are of pregnancy.
People who’s number one priority is the “freedom” to end a life that they created in order to avoid the consequences of their actions have a pretty screwed up sense of priorities. If being able to get abortions on demand is the most important political issue in your life, I’m thinking you need to find another hobby.
“Yes, the Democrat policies have meant that I can’t afford rent or food, that the power is only on for two or three hours a day…even if I could afford to pay the electric bill, the money I earned and saved for retirement when I actually had a job has been confiscated and if I complain about any of this in public I’m going to be ostracized and possibly even prosecuted…but at least I can still get an abortion whenever I want.”
plus there is an inconvenient detail that there is an interval in which abortion can be performed,
“Super easy, barely an invonvienience.”
Abortion solves so many of the plot problems in a woman’s life?
No.
My experience is embarrassing. We were expecting our first and I was anxiously awaiting the DNA tests as I was quite afraid of having a Downs Syndrome child. I was willing to abort in that case. Pure selfishness on my part. 12 years later that child of mine is friends with DS girl who taught me what an absolute ahole I was.
So how many more selfish aholes like my previous self contribute to the abortion industry? I’m so grateful to know Shannon and how she turned me prolife and didn’t even know what she did.
House down and around the corner besides the Marxist candidates signs has before put out to Roe Roe Roe sign. A very oxymoron that I notice here has a American Flag as well out. My observations is a flag and Marxist candidates don’t often cross the same yard.
Re fear and discomfort over body changes, I’ve noticed a new point of discussion lately as well: I’m 38 and 7 months pregnant with our last child. There are facebook groups by due dates, suffice to say I’m among the oldest in this group, and this group has far, far more moms-to-be concerned about dying in childbirth than I’ve ever seen in a group like this– to the point of making concrete plans with husband/baby-daddy about things like “who he should save”.
What is also concerning these women but seems not to concern the medical establishment as much is the significant increase in preemie babies over the past decade. (The rates plummeted in 2020-21, but have since resumed their rise.) Lots of advice in discussion about NICU stays, which seems odd to me to be an everyday conversation.)
Curious as to what folks here think of Benjamin Dierker’s argument. Writing for the Federalist he likened the idea of abortion being left up to the states to Stephen Douglas’s argument that slavery should be left up to the states.
https://thefederalist.com/2018/11/02/im-not-pro-abortion-wouldnt-outlaw-parallels-stephen-douglass-argument-slavery/
I realize this is a bit off-topic, not exactly what our host was getting at, but this essay has haunted me a bit since I read it in 2018.
“. . .there is a sense of being taken over by something alien to your entire previous experience. . .” It’s being host to a parasite, for sure. That parasite is how we perpetuate our species. It is also a natural result of a process (act?) that is pleasurable and (based on very old memories) about which we are petty compulsive.
I have talked to several women about abortions. A good friend of ours was hitch-hiking across the Sahara with her husband when she realized she was pregnant. They were not planning to return to the US for several months, so decided to terminate her pregnancy. They never found a “convenient” time and eventually divorced. She went to her grave without ever having a child, something she always regretted.
Someone else I knew, a young woman the age of my daughters, told me she had two abortions before she was 22. That struck me as irresponsible, but perhaps I’m not giving her the benefit of the doubt and she was just more “compulsive”/young.
Another woman I spoke with about her abortion had two sons when she discovered she was carrying a daughter. Her husband insisted she terminate the pregnancy, something she regretted as she wanted a daughter. It was a major regret.
And finally, a woman who was in her late thirties, married, and acknowledged having multiple partners, terminated a pregnancy because it was inconvenient and (she suspected) not her husband’s. Last I talked to her she regretted her childlessness but had been widowed young enough she could probably have remarried and given birth. I don’t know if she ever did.
The common theme through all these stories was regret at having terminated a pregnancy even though the circumstances were wildly different. Another theme is than none of these women was ignorant of the possible result of coitus. I didn’t ask them why they didn’t use protection, but I inferred (perhaps incorrectly) it was just inconvenient.
Other commenters here probably have similar stories they could tell. Does inconvenience figure in those stories? Am I wrong here?
There is no mystery that sex and pregnancy go together like a horse and carriage. That said, under current homicide statutes, a woman still has six weeks to legally abort her “burden”, and she maintains a right to self-defense through reconciliation. Furthermore, even in progressive sects, with less than liberal carve-outs, a woman is compelled to give birth at the time of viability. In Stork They Trust
In WA state, abortion is the only issue– almost no Harris ads on the tele, but the Republican (liberal Republican) candidate for Governor highlights his anti-abortion votes 10 years ago when he was in Congress. This, in a state that legalized abortion before the Roe v Wade decision.
The Democrats have very cleverly twisted the argument, IMO. “Banning abortion” in every instance does not mean a total ban with no exceptions. In every state that bans abortion allows abortions at minimum for the life and most often health of the mother. But the headlines always refer to it as banning abortion.
Here’s a Guttmacher headline: Six Months Post-Roe, 24 US States Have Banned Abortion or Are Likely to Do So: A Roundup
The reality is 24 states have restrictions on abortion. No state 100% prohibits abortion.
*Sigh*
I have no idea of how the free availability of abortion got to be such a huge thing with the big-name, capital-F Feminists. What with the Pill, and so many methods of birth control available …
I am of an age when a startlingly large number of women had them. I remember sitting around a table in the female barracks in the late 1970s, and of the six of us opening up about our lives … four of the six had had abortions, and one woman had two or three. She had medical issues, couldn’t carry to term, and the doctors told her she was too young to qualify for getting her tubes tied.
I was mildly horrified – but I could understand, under the limits of what was available for a woman, and how difficult it was to be a single parent.
Sometime later, I became pregnant, and it turned out that my long-term boyfriend had decided that he wanted out of the picture… and there I was, raising a daughter myself. It made a radical change to my life, possibly damaged the career that I might have had, otherwise. I didn’t hesitate for a moment when the nurse who broke the news to me that I was pregnant told me that the clinic could arrange for an abortion, if I wanted it.
So, I understand – understand that it is a tragic and difficult situation, all the way around. But what with birth control availability, and the morning-after pill – why does it have to be? Shouldn’t it be rare?
Roe, Roe, Roe your baby down the river Styx, is an apt analogy, and unprecedented religious crime wave, second only to Carhart and other Planned Parenthood corporate enterprises. To think that ancient cults performed human rites for social, clinical, criminal, political, and climate progress… and they still do.
That said, keep women affordable, available, reusable, and taxable, and the carbon-based “burden” of evidence sequestered in sanctuary states.
Strikes me that reasonable–defined conservatively–exceptions to a total ban would be easier to implement than reasonable restrictions to complete freedom.
So I vote for the former.
As I say, the results of crappy voting decisions rarely come home to the AWFL with a personal note, even if the women in question are actually affected. It wouldn’t be Kamala’s stupid policies ramping up prices, it would be price-gouging. Nothing to do with K.
I think the post-Dobbs “abortion laws kill women” canard is a also a big factor. If one believes that Republicans pass laws that literally result in the death of women who experience complications during pregnancy, I can see how that would be a #1 issue, especially for women who are or might become pregnant.
Of course, the “abortion laws kill women” narrative is not only false, but objectively ridiculous. Abortion laws clearly do not cover pregnancy complications such as ectopic pregnancies, miscarriages, or emergency c-sections. No one has ever, anywhere been charged under an abortion law for anything related to a pregnancy complication or situation where the mother’s life or limb was in danger or thought to be in danger. That includes pre-Roe and post-Dobbs.
But the ridiculousness of the narrative hasn’t stopped pro-abort lawyers from arguing that pro-life prosecutors are poised to start charging doctors and women over ectopic pregnancies and the like, and people believe them. (Including hospitals and doctors who are actually causing harm to women by delaying care because of a ridiculous fear of being prosecuted under an abortion law.)
I suspect that some of this is like the fear of airliner crashes…if someone has a sufficiently nightmarish scenario in their mind, arguments about how unlikely they are–even very solid arguments–are likely to fall on deaf ears.
Re: #2 “We are not talking about a human being…”
Here’s the thing, we don’t get to decide that ‘its’ not a human being because that’s abrogating to ourselves what amounts to omniscience and that, inescapably leads to monstrous evil.
My sense has always been that for the left, abortion is less about terminating unwanted pregnancies than it is having an issue – along with civilian disarmament – to fund raise off of.
One of the more thoughtful and intelligent analyses of seen of the psychology of why abortion is such a potent political issue:
https://x.com/WindDustStars/status/1841663553876721876
F:
I know many women who had abortions. I would not say that for ANY of them the reason was that pregnancy was an “inconvenience.” Some regretted it and some did not.
Almost all of them were using some form of birth control when they got pregnant. Birth control method failure is a very real thing. Two or three of them got pregnant with IUDs, by the way.
In between her pregnancies with my brother and me, my mother got pregnant while using a diaphragm. She had a natural miscarriage in the third month.
Contraception failure is and especially was (with older methods) very common. It still happens with some frequency.
Neo, I would like to believe that the majority of women would find it a difficult choice but when I look into our current culture I see so many lies that have been told to girls and young women and men too.
The big lie is all of the deflections from what is actually happening in a abortion. I have been watching a lot of political YouTube videos many of which touch on abortion. YouTube automatically attaches this text with a link to a government website medlineplus.gov.
“Procedural abortion, a procedure to remove the pregnancy from the uterus.”
The pregnancy is removed not even a fetus.
I hear women say things like “fetus deletus” which is dark humor but also dismissive and callous.
We no longer live in the world where this was illegal and considered immoral by a vast majority of people. Now it is merely a choice. One that often the culture at large would be upset if a woman didn’t chose. I believe that a rape victim, a woman I would have great sympathy for in wanting to abort, that chose not to abort would be seen as making a bad choice by many if not most in our society.
Kristen:
Fascinating. I didn’t think death in childbirth rates had increased at all, so my guess as to why women nowadays are that worried about it is that there’s a lot more worry in general. But looking it up, I see that although deaths in childbirth have decreased greatly since a century ago, in the last two decades they have risen somewhat – although they’re still very rare.
Premature births have been rising, however. Here’s an article about that. The rise has been slow but it’s been going on for a long time.
Congratulations on your own pregnancy and good wishes for a healthy and happy one!
Neo: Brava.
I read an interesting essay a number of years ago that summarized the differences between the political left and right. That difference is personal responsibility. Basically, the right believes you should be held responsible for your own actions; the left does NOT believe that you are responsible for your own actions. The debate over abortion is the best example of this. Most, meaning about 98% of all abortions, are used as “birth control after the fact,” where the mother doesn’t want to be “inconvenienced” by her own actions. The left now rails that the right wants to ban abortions even in cases of rape or incest, but even Planned Parenthood admitted to only about 2% of abortions being due to those causes. I would also say that if want an abortion because you were raped, there damn well better be a police report on file at the time you were “raped.”
This lack of responsibility by the left permeates all of their opinions. If someone is poor, for example, we on the right will say it is because they are lazy and don’t want to work. Folks on the left will not blame the lazy-ass, but will instead claim the lazy-ass is poor because other folks are conspiring to keep him poor! Etc.
Back in the Reagan years (too bad we can’t bring back those good times), I remember one time when what sounded like an older black woman called into the Rush Limbaugh show. This woman was complaining about how Reagan and Bush (the then VP) were conspiring to keep the inner-city communities in the grip of drug addiction. She actually blamed Reagan and Bush for pushing drugs in those communities. But then Rush had her speechless when he responded, “Ma’am, I don’t believe for a minute that Reagan and Bush are pushing drugs in the inner-city, but even if it were true, why don’t those folks foil their plans by NOT DOING DRUGS!?” In other words, take some personal responsibility!
I had the misfortune to meet Gary Peters a number of years ago. For those that don’t know, he is one of the Democrat senators from Michigan. I asked him if he was for equal rights for women, and he said he was. I then asked him if he was for equal rights for ALL women, and he said he was. I then asked him if he was for equal rights for UNBORN women, and he just gave me a dirty look. I then told him to go and perform a certain act on himself.
Basically, the right believes you should be held responsible for your own actions; the left does NOT believe that you are responsible for your own actions.
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Waal, what they believe is that they should be the ones to reallocate culpability and costs. The J6 defendents and Derek Chauvin et al exemplify this.
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The head case who invaded Paul Pelosi’s home has been convicted in federal and state court and given life without parole. Posit a case like that prosecuted under the New York Penal Law. What he did would be in sum a class E felony, a class D felony, and a class B felony (assuming no plea bargain). Even if they’d sentenced him to consecutive terms (and in New York, a judge is not compelled to) and given him the maximum on each charge, he’d have been eligible for parole after 12 years. Our judges and prosecutors are a scandal.
This lack of responsibility by the left permeates all of their opinions. If someone is poor, for example, we on the right will say it is because they are lazy and don’t want to work.
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Only if you’re a blockhead. People’s skill set is the most intense influence on their earnings, not their working hours. (BTW, about 85% of the working population is employed > 2,000 per annum). Adding to your skill set is challenging and about 1/4 of the available jobs in the economy at any one time consist of hire-off-the-street jobs where the training is in site-specific procedures.
By the way, I learned a new word.
Tokophobia – an extreme fear of childbirth. The condition causes some people to take excessive measures to avoid getting pregnant. People who do become pregnant may dread each week of pregnancy instead of enjoying it. With therapy and extra support, this condition can be overcome.
I think I have it, and I don’t even have to worry about getting pregnant.
The guttmacher institute is not an impartial source
Sorry, Neo. No sell. The people who are most vocal are calling for unfettered abortion. That has nothing to do with fear of an unwanted pregnancy.
To anyone who objects to any limits on abortion, define for me at what moment in a pregnancy a fetus changes from a mass to a viable human. If you cannot do that, then due caution is the only moral recourse. Most states have ‘compromised’ to allow abortion at some point in the term which negates the argument of fear of an unwanted pregnancy, and also provides relief from rape or incest, yet hopefully, avoids infanticide.
If particular states have restrictions that abortion advocates consider unreasonable, they need to make their case to the voters in those states.
Actually, I seldom see them making a case. They simply shout an assertion. An assertion that I do not accept.. The argument, ‘a woman’s right to choose’ is spurious at best; because it ignores the possibility of other’s rights. The ‘others’ could involve a helpless human, and also the potential father in some cases. Except in the case of rape, actual or statutory, a woman chose to take a known risk. I know of no innate right to be excused from the consequences of risky behavior. People who indulge in risky behavior of various types pay the consequences every day. But, never mind that. I repeat, in most venues, compromise is offered–and rejected.
If one method of birth control is not so reliable, women have the option to use more reliable methods instead, or use multiple compatible methods. But sex always carries some risk of pregnancy (which is is not new or esoteric knowledge) and the use of birth control doesn’t change the rightness or wrongness of abortion.
There are any number of behaviors for which one can take precautions which have some non-zero failure rate; when you choose the behavior you also choose the consequence. But a lot of Americans want to transfer the consequences of their choices to others who had no agency in the matter, and abortion is not the only issue where that is true, certainly.
Art Deco…”People’s skill set is the most intense influence on their earnings, not their working hours”
Also, willingness to take responsibility. For example, I visited a factory owned by an early-stage company in which I’m an investor. While the ops manager was showing me around, he mentioned that they found it difficult to get workers to take supervisory positions. I’ve heard about this phenomenon before: sometimes, people fear that becoming one of the ‘bosses’ will destroy their relationship with their friends who are now co-workers…sometimes, it’s just not wanting to have to worry about anything other than one’s single task.
Well, I don’t know what this naughty interloper named ‘Peter Sells’ thinks he’s about here, but I’ll venture to speak for him. 🙂 I’ve seen this guy try to take credit for my work before….
Neo, that is an illuminating explanation and I thank you for it. Be it understood, however, that in my – or rather, ‘Peter’s’ – comment the other day, the “annoying” descriptor was meant to cover broadly such ground as the physical bodily changes, not directed at mere nuisance factors. That I can understand as a harassing form of burden, at least until delivery, obviously. Similar with the “when they decide it’s time” – that doesn’t have to mean a casual decision, can also include bad news on a genetic screening or something.
Your point about detaching the assortment of other possible external scenarios from voting (D) is also worth weighing.
Maybe it’s indeed about that feeling of loss of autonomy, ultimately. Proposition 1 in NY State this year speaks to that in its proposal of a requirement of non-discrimination on the basis of “reproductive autonomy”. (Of course, one is encouraged by the establishment to overlook the fact that, strictly speaking, “reproductive autonomy” = parthenogenesis, which is not a human ability. And I assume the state constitution is silent on the rights of snakes.)
It’s a kind of social/civic experiment: how far can the principle of self-determination be stretched?
as a physician of almost 40 years , I can recall participating in abortions in medical school. As the student I was given the thankless jib of measuring the fetal foot. If abortion isn’t murder it sure comes close. that being said im a legal safe and rare guy. I think France has got it right. However I have also seen the pro-abortionist attitude change from a painful last resort to an in your face ” Im gonna get pregnant just to get an abortion”. Nobody would have supported late term abortion 35 years ago.
I remember having a patient who aspirated and went comatose during her 17th abortion. why so many? she was a junkie who ran out of arm veins and got pregnant to enlarge her breast veins to allow needle access.
Another issue is I resent the focus group termed ” Pro-choice”. the most ardent pro-abortionists are fascistic in that they are not for choice on any other issue-i.e. school sconce, parental notification of trans grooming etc…
This is why I frequent the Boss’ space…great minds wrestling with wisdom…
Let me throw a spanner in the works then… 😉
I’d agree with Oldflyer to a large degree…
“The people who are most vocal are calling for unfettered abortion.”
Many of the most strident voices (& votes) don’t allow even for “failed” abortions where the baby is born alive. In those cases they demand the provider (I struggle to call them Drs) kill the living post-abortion birthed infant. This is a deeper sort of thing than inconvenience or fear of repercussions…physical, emotional, social, economic, etc…
I’ve known women who became pregnant in untimely circumstances & some of those regretted the decision to abort…but those I know who are single-issue-abortion proponents…are not those women. And the reasoning is often grossly out of touch with real life experience…Ben Shapiro’s last series of “debates” with lefties had some really bizarre women who kept trying to change the definition of “abortion,” & calling it “reproductive rights” is just lying in the first order.
But I believe what’s really at stake is the eternal issue of control, mastery, autonomy…however you want to say it. With the advent of birth control pills & access to other forms of birth control and the incumbent relaxed standards around women exercising their sex drives more for pleasure or power than procreation, I reckon some women “bit the apple” all over again & are not about to relinquish that godlike status in their own lives.
With the wider openness in society to women in historically male vocations & the access to education & status along with that shift, more women have had more choices than their mothers, grandmothers & so on. The last bastion of self-determination seems to be the uterus…so they fight to retain control over that which is most intimately “theirs.”
So…maybe it is a spiritual issue at its core (of course I’d say it is)…What I hear in those “abortion by any means at any time” voices is, “If I can have final veto over “be fruitful multiply & fill the earth,” then by all means I will…and everyone else can go hang.” Or something like that.
I’m against it. Period. It’s one of the aspects of being Catholic in which I am devoutly Catholic. A person becomes a person (human) at the instant of conception, abortion is murder, etc. I understand and am sympathetic to pro-choice arguments of every degree, i.e. the extremists, the moderates, the everywhere in-betweens. But still. Fortunately for the pro-choice people of every stripe my beliefs are utterly and quite literally wholly inconsequential. I have known plenty of women who had abortions because they weren’t “prepared” to have a child at that stage in their lives. In other words having a child was, for them, an inconvenience. How many abortions have been performed in the U.S. since 1973? The number is vast, in the tens of millions. That’s a holocaust of truly epic proportions. I dunno, but I think God may one day punish us for it. But it doesn’t matter what I think. And there’s nothing I can do about it. So there you have it.
I would call it the number one non-issue. Trump is willing to let the states decide as they see fit. Democrats want a national abortion law, but they get votes saying that Trump wants a national abortion ban. It’s a manufactured controversy.
My mother aborted her first pregnancy, which was just before me. It scarred her for the rest of her life.
I was complicit in my younger sister’s abortion of her first pregnancy. She was a mildly retarded teenager, and some horrible young man started having sex with her, then moved in with my mother and sister. He terrorized them both. My mother was suicidally depressed and incapable of fighting the guy off.
My other sister and I caught wind. We flew back to our hometown and told the guy we were the new sheriffs in town. He got the hell out.
Frankly I don’t regret helping my younger sister get an abortion. I feel a bit guilty but not much.
It’s a complicated issue.
@Abraxas:It’s a manufactured controversy.
It is, and I wonder if it’s not being used as a flag of convenience for establishment GOP types who are tired of having to pretend they care what their base thinks about abortion. It didn’t take very long after Dobbs to see the trial balloons go up.
When the media just lies about what Republicans want to do, there’s no point in trying to change positions to respond to that, especially when it alienates the most loyal core of the base. The media will continue their lies, or move on to other lies; they will get what they want, and the GOP will be most likely worse off in terms of voters, and definitely more left-wing.
I don’t think “Democrats but 20 years later” is a long-term winning strategy for accomplishing any goals of conservatives; it does let some GOPe types feed at the troughs though.
It’s a complicated issue.
It would take the wisdom of Solomon.
I interact with many Democrats, many of whom are over 60 years old, clearly of the age and/or sex in which having or raising new kids is out of the question. So, inconvenience of pregnancy or struggle of raising an unwanted child is of no personal concern to these 60+ year olds. Some of them have no children at all, so no worries of a daughter having an unwanted child.
Still, almost uniformly, abortion is a number 1 issue for these 60+ year olds, even those who are Jewish and pro-Israel. And, I know the real reason abortion is number 1:
They think abortion is the only issue, if it were the only issue that separated Kamala from Trump, about which Kamala could in an election prevail over Trump.
I remember how on The Good Wife Christine Baranski’s character was presented as a liberal idealist, and she would never represent the pro-life side of an abortion case. However, she was willing to represent people she knew were murderers and organized crime bosses.
A real person who has principles like this is either messed up, or has fake principles and is primarily thinking of sources of revenue that would dry up if she took the wrong side on abortion. The murderers and organized crime bosses always paid, of course.
It bothers me that Democrats are campaigning as though it were a common occurrence that every woman, every voter’s female friend or relation, is at risk of dying because she couldn’t get an abortion.
That’s a rare situation.
And nonexistent as along as one can buy a bus ticket to California, Massachusetts or any other Dem voting state. Or purchase an abortifacient pill by mail.
Fair enough, but it is despicable that the Democratic Party is lying to the public about abortion to win, for example stating that “Trump abortion bans” (which don’t exist, as Trump hasn’t been governor of any state) are “killing women” or that pro-life laws don’t allow women to receive lifesaving care. They’re telling blatant and really quite dangerous lies in order to win an election, which is disgusting.
Shadow:
Are we disagreeing about how despicable Democrats are?
Women who don’t want the child should abort it long before the abortionist has to take it out piece by piece – limb by limb. Kamala wants abortion legal to the day of birth. This is murder.
The elephant in the room is that the Communists and Socialists in Congress use abortion and guns as fund raisers. They have no intention of ever resolving the issues: too much money goes into their back pockets.