The history of “Palestine”
I’ve cued this up for about a nine-minute excerpt that I think is a valuable lesson about the history of “Palestine.”
The New Neo
A blog about political change, among other things
I’ve cued this up for about a nine-minute excerpt that I think is a valuable lesson about the history of “Palestine.”
The part about the name “Palestine” being associated with Jews until about the 1960’s is really interesting. She packed in a lot of details that I never knew.
Shadow:
You are not alone. Most people haven’t a clue about this.
Thanks neo for the video.
Today our congregation had a three hour panel discussion about the Israel-Hamas (Palesitnian) War (conflict). Our congregation is Evangelical Covenant Ordination, conservative Presbetyrians who left the Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA). The panel was three ministers, an evangelist, and a high school history/drama theater teacher. I was relieved to learn that our lead pastor supports Israel and has not fallen for the Hamashite’s propaganda. One of the other pastors was concerned about politicians misleading believers and focused instead about the evangelical Christain frenzy in the 1970’s and 80’s regarding the Second Coming and The End Times.
The third pastor was a Hamas/Palestinian apologist which was not a surprise as he had been involved with woke issues in the past. The teacher was careful be noncommittal.
Eventually a brave soul asked about the elephant in the room; the Muslim command to seek out and kill the Jews wherever they are.
The pastor apologist for Hamas/Palestinians responded to that with a quote from a Palestinian playing the sad trombone.
Never mentioned was the savagery, sadism, and barbarity of Hamas on 10/7/2023.
alright, I have to take exception with one point, netanyahu has never fought back,
how many conflicts have their been since 2009, when he resumed power, 2012, and 2014, and 2018 if memory serves, there have been settlements he has surrendered unwisely, in my view, but still, he was at the forefront of an alliance of convenience admittedly that the Abraham Accords had forged, how durable that was, is arguable, the fact this administration attacked every member of that groupin one way or another, is prologue to current events
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-arabs-used-to-chant-that-palestine-did-not-exist/
odd how they take these facts and dismiss them for reasons,
Leon Uris did acknowledge that Deir Yassin happened and what he knew of Plan Dalet
which was the catechism, that David Cornwall nee Cornwall seems to have been fed at the Colony Hotel
om:
The pastor who was the Hamas apologist should have been asked if he knew what the Arab world did in 1948 that might have caused this supposed “oppression,” or why the Palestinians have refused every offer of statehood since.
Interesting also that a person who is a pastor seems to think that claims of “subjugation” and “oppression” justify brutal rapes and sadistic murders as well as barbaric mutilations.
Did anyone try to respond to him at that point?
Since arguably, Palestine has never existed, it can’t truly have a ‘history’.
in 1948, jordan seized the west bank, samaria, and egypt Gaza, that was Yassin’s experience, until age 38, in the film black sunday, Gotell playing the Jordanian officlal, admits his part in the formation of Leila, who was the antagonist,
they were three sanjaks much in the same they said Iraq never existed, which is sloppy shorthand,
Neo,
Crickets, I was in the front row and holding back anger, not a usual emotion in church.
It was past three hours by then and time to close with prayer.
The part about the name “Palestine” being associated with Jews until about the 1960’s is really interesting.
My wife’s father, a pilot, was one of a group of Americans who clandestinely volunteered and fought with Israel in the 1948 war.* We have some letters that he wrote from there, and he routinely refers to the Jews living there at the time as “Palestinians.” It was only in the 1960s with the formation of the PLO that the Arabs figured out the brilliant marketing move of adopting the moniker “Palestinian.”
*He subsequently became a pilot for Pan Am, and died in a plane crash in December 1963.
om:
I imagine it was infuriating.
neo:
Fortunately it did not ruin the rest of my day.
I wasn’t sure going in where the Senior Pastor stood. He approvingly cited a VDH article critiquing the “worlds” expectation for Israel to use proportionate response to Hamas. He also pointed out what the “River to the sea” means.
Crickets about that from the Hamas apologist pastor.
Anyone in the pulpit (or on the podium) make a passing reference to a certain phrase (or two, or three) in the Hamas Charter?
…Thought not….
Jimmy, thank you to your father in law!
Thanks, Neo! That was enlightening.
Ilana, I wish I could have known him. My wife didn’t really even know him, as she was 4 when he died. Seeing those letters for the first time around 10 years ago was a revelation.
om, it’s disturbing to know that such an ill-informed and misguided pastor is to be found in a conservative Protestant denomination like yours. When I, and many others, left left-wing denominations, we didn’t leave behind our need to be alert to problems, sadly.
There is a good film-documentary on the subject of the early Israeli Air Force and the men who formed it up, flew the missions and arguably saved the infant nation: Above and Beyond
Check out a map of the Ottoman Empire, ca. 1900.
You will find that many nations that exist today in the ME did not exist at that time or any time prior to 1900.
Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Israel , Lebanon (and others?) were created out of thin air post WWI by the French, British and League of Nations, and post WWII by the UN and British.
You will also not see a Palestine.
no they were all sanjaks districts or vilayets provinces of the Ottomans, when they said Iraq didn’t exist, that was kind of wrong, it was composed of three vilayets, they did extend the northern one, Mosul
And, as ever, I refer everyone to ‘Innocents Abroad’, Mark Twain’s first book, which details the adventures of a shipload of American Tourists in 1869.
He describes the journey they made from Damascus to Jerusalem, riding donkeys, as a trip through an unpopulated wasteland. It was truly a “…land without people for a people without a land.”
Read it.
A final thought; from the audience the question arose before the prayer:
It was hard not to walk out on such brainwashing.
Ask Carthage.
Propaganda works, but you have to want to be mislead?
He describes the journey they made from Damascus to Jerusalem, riding donkeys, as a trip through an unpopulated wasteland. It was truly a “…land without people for a people without a land.”
Yes, a large proportion of the Arabs in “Palestine” by the 1940s had migrated there from other parts of the Middle East and North Africa. Remember Arafat was born in Egypt. They were no more “indigenous” than the Jews who arrived there during that 1880-1940 period. And worse, in the 1930s the Brits allowed Arabs to migrate there but prevented Jews from doing so.
om:
The answer is so glaringly obvious: “Yes, in the same way the Allies’ harsh and brutal tactics in World War II created more Nazis.”
neo:
Obvious and odious that the answer eludes such “compassionate” folk.
“Leon Uris did acknowledge that Deir Yassin happened.”
What happened was there were about 100 deaths in a village of about 1,000 people. Most of the deaths were of Arab fighters or of people in houses from which fighters fired. According to contemporary accounts by village residents, there was no massacre and there were no rapes. Contrary to wishes of village residents, Arab leaders spread rumors of a massacre and rapes, leading to the emigration of many Arabs in Palestine.
See:
The Massacre that Never Happened – Ezriel Tauber
Palestine Betrayed – Ephraim Karsh
Were some Arabs expelled from Palestine? Unless the person asking the question also asks about Mizrachi Jews forced out of Arab countries 1948-1951, they don’t deserve an answer.
‘Innocents Abroad’, Mark Twain’s first book…Read it.
Good suggestion!
much like they did with the precursor to the Hebron massacre of ’29
https://www.ynetnews.com/culture/article/sybckqv6a
that link deserves more attention,
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/deir-yassin-the-end-of-a-myth/
ah the khalidi clan, pere were involved in ‘blowing it up’ so to speak
I often think that the conflict there is more between the Jews and a handful of effendi families like the Khalidis, Nashashibis, Nusseibahs, and Husseinis, than being between the Jews and the Arabs at large. Those families still dominate “Palestinian” society.
The Palestinians are deeply tribal. I was watching Israeli tv today and they were describing how each city and “refugee camp” in Gaza is dominated by a single clan.
Are you familiar with Mordechai Kedar?
“The idea of Judaism as a religion is a 200 year old Western Construct.”
So the writings of Torah, Tanakh, Talmud as well as Joseph, Moses, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Joshua and Samuel were just a bunch of atheists and agnostics who really didn’t start monotheism and believe in Jahweh? Alrighty, then.
I see that Einat Wilf is an atheist and was a member of the Labor Party but I don’t agree with her at all on this idea. I do understand she says that the Jews or the Israelis are a tribe – a people, That is true. But without the historical names of above there is not much connection to the past.
Anyway, like her a lot. Maybe she will change her mind on this.