Home » SCOTUS says it’s okay for a state to block the medical transition of children. But why did we get to the point of allowing medical transition of children in the first place?

Comments

SCOTUS says it’s okay for a state to block the medical transition of children. But why did we get to the point of allowing medical transition of children in the first place? — 29 Comments

  1. My Wife taught HS and JrH for 30 yrs. She could not give a student an Aspirin, and the School Nurse (yes, it was a long time ago) could not without parental permission.

  2. SHIREHOME:

    As far as I know, they always got parental permission. But they did it by saying the children would commit suicide without the treatment.

  3. I saw this documentary film about transgender/transsexual people and culture long ago. I believe it was in the early days of this “mainstreaming” of trans culture into the fore of our society.

    A friend had a time-share in Park City UT and for a number of years we would go skiing the week after the Sundance Film Festival. The local high school gymnasium would host a few of the award winning Sundance films for free that week. We saw the Christopher Nolan film Memento in its first public viewings.

    One year, and I can’t place the year very well, perhaps 1997 – 2002, they showed a documentary about being trans. There were a few themes. One was whether a person’s sexual desires makes them gay or not gay but of the wrong sex themselves. There were enough variations on that theme that it quickly got confusing. Particularly to a straight person who, quite honestly, finds it difficult to care one way or the other.

    A second theme, pertaining to neo’s question: “How did we get here today?” is that they want to be seen as normal to the rest of society. First, they try to explain all these strange and confusing permutations, and then they say we want all the rest of you to treat this as normal and adapt to it. In a way, it’s understandable. On the other hand… Give me a break!

    When I was watching this film, it was clear that they were promoting this second theme and goal. My thought then was, “Oh, no. Trouble.” No telling what kind of trouble then, but here we are today.

    I’ve tried searching for this film generally or through the Sundance listings to no avail.

  4. “Gender affirming?”
    The Devil, you say!
    It’s “Gender Deleting!”

  5. There’s a reason that the word “tomboy” exists. It’s because there are a nonzero number of young girls who haven’t gone through puberty that prefer the company of boys. Once puberty hits they switch over and become young ladies in frilly dresses, just like all the other girls. I remember one from my childhood and saw it with a young girl who played with my older boy. I doubt that my experience is rare.

    I’d bet that the people recommending the puberty blockers don’t have much experience with small children. They should talk to grade school teachers with many years of experience.

  6. We shouldn’t blame it all on Francis Bacon (but we should blame it on Francis Bacon).

  7. Paul in Boston,

    I keep coming back to the tomboy example as one excellent reason why adults should stay the hell away from aggressive influencing of these childhood traits and predilections.

    But I’d also note that sometimes tomboys don’t convert to very feminine attire and affectations with puberty. Which in most cases, still doesn’t mean that they are not fully a woman. And depending on the details, a lot of men might find them very attractive. Vive la différence!

    This current push for trans acceptance is in some ways very damaging to the freedom of our children and their acceptance in society.

  8. In my experience, most tomboys not only grew out of that phase, but they became the prettiest women I knew, and also the most self-confident.

  9. I recently saw an article which showed the surgery required to create something that resembles a penis. The skin, muscles, and fat comes from the arm, which doesn’t grow back fully. The created male organ is also not realistic.

    I suspect that the parents and children are not fully informed about the extent of the plastic surgery. Along with the scars from the double mastectomy, can you imagine the horrors these children experience later in life. They can never be normal.

  10. Liz:

    At this point, a lot of trans-identified people opt not to have “bottom surgery” for that reason.

  11. Progress is an [unqualified] monotonic function, process.

    Homosexuals are in the transgender spectrum. Why the phobic reaction to their sisters and brothers who want a more complete bifurcated gender orientation and appearance?

    Oh, and abort and sequester the Rainbow symbols and rhetoric. Albinophobia is one of the oldest bigotries and paraded in poor taste.

    You can’t abort the baby, cannibalize her profitable parts, sequester her carbon, and have her, too.

  12. MIC, PIC, and SIC have demonstrated no skill to predict the majority who will suffer or receive no benefit from gender corruption therapy. And the minority that may receive some reprieve will enjoy a forward-looking sexual dysfunction, treatment, and debt for profit.

  13. I just looked up the case of Chloe Cole, who is suing Kaiser Permanente for mutilating her as a 13-year-old. The case has been pursued by the Harmeet Dhillon law firm. The wheels of justice grind slowly. I think it opened in 2023 and it’s still in court.

    Here’s what the Google AI says. Note the biased language. . “Gender affirming”, “pushing against transgender rights.”

    Google AI
    Yes, there are lawsuits filed against Kaiser Permanente involving transgender individuals. One prominent case involves Chloe Cole, an 18-year-old who says she de-transitioned after receiving gender-affirming care from Kaiser Permanente as a minor.
    Key details of the Chloe Cole case:
    Allegations: The lawsuit claims that Kaiser Permanente provided inappropriate gender hormone therapies and surgical procedures to Cole when she was a teenager, despite her later de-transition. Cole alleges she was pressured into transitioning and that Kaiser Permanente did not adequately address her mental health or inform her parents about less invasive treatments like psychotherapy.
    Legal Action: The lawsuit, filed in San Joaquin Superior Court in California, accuses Kaiser doctors and professionals of rushing Cole into gender reassignment treatment and surgery before she turned 18.
    Context: Cole’s case has become a part of a national debate surrounding gender-affirming care for minors and has been embraced by some conservative groups pushing against transgender rights.
    Kaiser Permanente’s Response: Kaiser Permanente has stated that their gender-affirming services are consistent with medical standards and that they prioritize patient safety and well-being, respecting the patient’s and their family’s informed decisions.

  14. Andrew Klavan has a good way of framing this. To paraphrase:

    Humans are a bipedal species.

    Some humans are born with one leg. Some humans are born without full use of both legs. Some humans injure their legs and walk with crutches, walkers or wheelchairs.

    The existence of humans who cannot function bipedally does not mean we should abandon our nature and hobble all those who can walk normally.

    None of this changes the fact that humans are a bipedal species.

  15. Gender dysphoria is essentially a mental health issue, IMO. Our society is loath to help people with mental health issues – note the large number of mentally ill people among the homeless. Why don’t we want to help people with psychological issues? I don’t know. Is it the “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” anti-mental health treatment syndrome?

    This is obviously a difficult issue to treat, but I would think that psychiatrists would have found a workable approach to treatment by now, and most efforts to help children suffering from it would be in mental therapy. But it’s not.

    At least it’s now clear that states can ban the medical procedures and maybe that will force more mental therapy into the picture. One can hope.

  16. Our society is loath to help people with mental health issues – note the large number of mentally ill people among the homeless
    ==
    For crying out loud. In this country there are.
    ==
    25,000 psychiatrists
    ==
    71,000 clinical and counseling psychologists
    ==
    398,000 counselors (specializing in ‘substance abuse’ and ‘mental health’
    ==
    115,000 social workers (specializing in ‘substance abuse’ and ‘mental health’)
    ==
    That does not count adjacent professionals employed by school districts, btw. These people either receive government salaries or their services are purchased by employers for their EAP programs or they’re compensated by insurance. Maybe there’s a corps who are stand-alone professionals paid by their clients. (Not my trade).
    ==
    Some of those in the vagrant population are schizophrenics who might have at one time been billeted in state asylums. Some are just people who handle life poorly. An irreducible minority will fail spectacularly if they are free to do so.
    ==
    People aren’t ‘loath’ to help ‘the mentally ill’. It is simply the case that there isn’t much of a movement (among politicians or the public) to curb stomp the judiciary and the phony public interest bar. They are the creatures which made it only barely possible to involuntarily confine people, not Joe Blow off the sidewalks of Dayton.

  17. We got to this point because among our professional managerial stratum and in the word merchant sector there is a critical mass of bad people. Quite a few are in the legal profession who in turn run interference for the ghouls in the medical profession and mental health trade. Then you have the inveterate followers of fashion (which include most of the AWFLs who vote Democratic in this country).

  18. “They are the creatures which made it only barely possible to involuntarily confine people, not Joe Blow off the sidewalks of Dayton.”
    – Art D.

    You’re probably correct, but our society in general has looked the other way as our cities’ streets have become more like third word cities. Compassion for the addicts and mental cases seems to be lacking.

    As you point out, the resources seem to be available to help these unfortunate people. But the desire is lacking.

  19. It started with gay marriage. I was in favor at the time, or at least not opposed. Retrospectively, I’m chagrined not to have seen it as the harbinger it was. The camel’s nose doesn’t seem all that problematic when it first slides into the tent.

  20. @JJ: Why don’t we want to help people with psychological issues?

    I believe we do, but it turns out to be very difficult to help people who are mentally ill or have substance abuse issues.

    It’s not like putting a broken arm in a cast or giving someone an antibiotic.

    It’s usually a very time-intensive process and requires great perseverance on the part of the patient. More often than not it fails.

    If you’ve seen it up close, it’s heartbreaking.

  21. The problem with the mentally ill is that those who need help most desperately must be helped against their will.

    Balance is always difficult.

  22. “If you’ve seen it up close, it’s heartbreaking.” – huxley

    Yes, and you have certainly seen it. I applaud you for rising above the tragedies that have occurred in your family.

    It’s true that therapy works best on people who want to do the work.

    In children with gender dysphoria, I think most would like to resolve or manage the turbulent emotions that come with the issue. I know a therapist that has successfully guided a few girls through the process. It’s not easy and the parents have to be solidly on board. The other issue is that social media is like poison for these children.

    My issue is that our society seems to want a quick fix of just sweep the problem under the rug.

    The percentage of transgender people in the U.S. is about .5% (about 1.4 million)- a very small number. They deserve compassion and help. Many can be helped to deal with their emotions and distress. But we can’t reorder our society to meter their tastes, and we should tread very carefully when it comes to medical interventions for children.

  23. A very even handed analysis, Neo.
    Additionally, IMO, the prevalence of single parent households has resulted in a greater degree of sexual abuse and ‘transing’ is a reaction to and defense of that.
    Art Deco,
    ‘a critical mass of bad people.’
    Exactly. The problem of evil.

  24. You’re probably correct, but our society in general has looked the other way as our cities’ streets have become more like third word cities.
    ==
    You’ve confounded Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, and Toronto with the rest of North America. You’ve also not considered the effects of legalizing mary jane and abandonment of drug enforcement in select loci.

  25. Got two granddaughters involved in athletics from maybe age seven. Really great athletes. I think my younger granddaughter’s softball team, thirteen and under, could beat any fraternity intramural team I ever played on. It’s fast pitch and these kids are gunning them in at 58mph plus.
    Not at all masculine. Saw a bunch at a graduation open house still in uniform some time back. Not tomboys. Can get their athletic jollies with the girls’ teams. So maybe the tomboy thing will be reduced.

    The older granddaughter, volleyball, softball, power lifting at high school varsity level looks like a model but not malnourished when dressed for the prom. Got a boy friend, no issues. Didn’t need to hang around guys.

    I hope I’m wrong. Really do. Is it possible that you need a trans kid to beat the mom with the gay kid for most progressive mother in the subdivision?

    Physicians are trained, so I’m told, to spot Munchhausen by proxy. An of that slip past them in the trans sphere?

  26. In many ways Gender dysphoria reminds me of Anorexia or Bulemia, It seems to be a response to the stresses of adolescence (or occasionally with males experiencing gender dysphoria it seems to be a case of Munchausen by Proxy from moms who really wanted a girl). In the case of an Anorexic one would NOT provide bariatric surgery nor GLP-1 inhibitors as this would merely accelerate their demise. Given the suicide rates of those that undergo the preliminary surgeries for transition their result seems similar, The issue in anorexialies far deeper than the perceived weight issues, it is a fundamental issue of mental health. The issue of gender dysphoria is analogous. Given how physically incomplete the transition surgeries are compared to actual male or female body forms and genitalia it is not even clear that ADULTS are being given sufficient information to choose with informed consent.

  27. What if gender dysphoria could be cured, totally, with no lingering effects. As if it had never happened, by a week’s dose of pills?
    Then…all gone.. Allll gone. As if never.
    How many people would be disappointed, bitterly disappointed? Speaking not of the afflicted.

  28. Does ‘gender dysphoria’ exist outside of the imagination of mental health tradesmen and their clients?

  29. “Does ‘gender dysphoria’ exist outside of the imagination of mental health tradesmen and their clients?” – Art D.

    Have you ever been to an LGBTQ parade? Have you ever seen a drag queen story hour? Have you noticed the likes of Admiral Rachel Levine? It’s real. That it’s not biological doesn’t mean it is a fantasy.

    “You’ve confounded Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, and Toronto with the rest of North America. You’ve also not considered the effects of legalizing mary jane and abandonment of drug enforcement in select loci.” – Art D.

    The homeless problem is found in every blue city in the country. We have it here in Everett, WA – not as bad a Seattle, but still a problem.

    If our voters wanted to help these people, they would elect a different bunch of politicians. Instead, they look the other way.

    I have a niece who is involved in “helping” (actually helping them to stay on the streets) the homeless in Denver. I asked her if she has ever seen anyone get their act together and get a life.? The answer, “No!” It makes her feel good to feed them and considers any attempt to “reform” them to be cruel. Too many citizens like her help prolong the problem. And there are way too many of them.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

HTML tags allowed in your comment: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>

Web Analytics