France bans short haul domestic flights…
…that have rail coverage of the same trip in less than two and a half hours.
The wave of the future, I suppose. Some day it will only be the EU heads and the Great Resetters who will be allowed to fly, in chartered luxury jets of course.
Actually, I don’t think it makes sense to take a flight that’s so short, because the trip to and from the airport, and the wait to go through security, probably makes the trips as long or longer and more stressful than the train rides would be. And connector flights are unaffected by the ban. But still, banning the flights seems very ominous to me.
And apparently, Macron’s being criticized for not banning flights with up to four-hour train rides as the alternative.
These sorts of measures are really just technological virtue-signaling:
Critics have described the latest measures as “symbolic bans”.
Laurent Donceel, interim head of industry group Airlines for Europe (A4E), told the AFP news agency that “banning these trips will only have minimal effects” on CO2 output.
I don’t doubt it.
I’m not sure this is a bad idea, although whether he can “ban” short flights is a matter for the French system to determine. Europe does not have the vast distances that we do, and it does have a highly-developed and efficient train system. Taking the TGV instead of a plane is what I would do.
While in France for the Women’s World Cup in 2019 we took trains everywhere except for a 3 day excursion to Normandy from Lyon… flew from Lyon to Caen as it got us a full day, but took train back to Lyon which was a bit of a pain due to transfers and a much longer travel time. For that trip overall we were on trains from the moment we landed in London until the flight back to the US from London, except as noted above.
Wouldn’t work at all in the US as the passenger rail service here is non-existent. I like the 2 1/2 hour criteria. Anyone who has ridden on Amtrak knows 2.5 hours hardly gets you anywhere. 🙂
what does this saw dust caesar feed on, it’s a solution, like amputating a limb to cure a pimple a problem that doesn’t merit this kind of attention,
Where’s Boris Johnson when you need an expert frog-basher? “A livid Boris Johnson once called Emmanuel Macron a ‘c–t’ and ‘Putin’s lickspittle’ — and threatened to ‘punch his lights out’ in ‘an orgy of frog-bashing,’ according to explosive claims from an ex-spokesman.”
https://nypost.com/2023/05/18/boris-johnson-called-macron-a-c-t-putins-lickspittle-ex-rep
I can see California doing this.
From citizens>>>subjects
If properly run (on time) rail service has a place. Some concerns: Getting to and from train a couple times daily. Security – ‘no go zone’ concerns. [Looking at you Frankfurt am Main, etc] Air conditioning and restrooms not working and ‘over booking’. Just a few things that come to mind.
I also like the TGV trains and have driven over much of the southern half of France. At home, any trip of less than 500 miles I drive. I hate flying now that I am old. But my days of flying to Europe or Asia are over, anyway. The climate insanity seems even worse in Europe. God knows what gas costs there now.
Air conditioning and restrooms not working and ‘over booking’. Just a few things that come to mind.
Just reminded me of taking the train from Paris to Versailles with three teenagers about 15 years ago. I had to warn the girls not to step on the newspaper on the floor of the inter-car connection. It was full of human feces.
But private plane flights of less than 2.5 hrs were not banned. go figure.
Dwaz:
California won’t be doing it any time soon, if ever. It has just about no rail system and efforts to make one have failed. It also – as I’ve discovered – has a very poor bus system. Plus, the distances between major cities tend to be rather large.
I used to go to Boston from Manhattan via train every December for a conference. Almost everyone else flew. And it took us the same amount of time, from door to door. I was on the roomier train, all that time. And my Boston stop was right at the conference hotel. Other people had to get to Laguardia, fly to Logan, get from Logan to the hotel…. and the year the blizzard struck, they barely made it out of Boston on time. (I think it was about a four-hour trip.)
Plus, even though it was Amtrak, I still enjoyed the train ride.
(This was before the added security, so back then, you could arrive at the airport shortly before boarding, and check in at the gate.)
It doesn’t matter if 2.5 hr radius seems reasonable.
First it is a seemingly reasonable 2.5 hr radius. Then it goes to 4. Then all flights are outlawed.
First, the ’15 minute cities’ in which you are locked into your corner of the city. Now this.
They say that the world has been getting smaller with the advent of commercial air travel. It is about to start getting larger again.
Erronius
Maybe the US should just consider converting all the rail lines carrying the trillions of tons of goods to passenger trains so we can be just like Europe and satisfy all the Germans on perpetual vacation
The scale of Europe is totally different, and of course France has very different ideas about personal liberty than Americans or even the British have (erm, had).
I was Italy last year and I went between cities by train, it was much more convenient, cheaper, and comfortable than even first class on a plane would have been. The longest one I took was Venice to Rome, about 4 hours on Frecciarossa. By plane I’d have had a little over 1 hour in the air, at least twice the price, and possibly 3 – 4 hours. Not to mention that Rome’s airport is about an hour away from Rome…
Not a reason to ban air travel, in my opinion, but they’ll not be suffering hardship like we would if here in America we tried to do the same. Except in the Acela corridor there is no density to support convenient rail travel. I’ve traveled by train for fun from Seattle to other towns in Washington and it takes far longer than driving, mostly because you’re sitting while freight trains go by.
The European governments are keeping the railrods afloat with subsidies so this may reduce gubbmint costs. The new fares will pay some of the costs. I bet that they will not be banning private or leased aircraft runs for their “special” friends. They can probably eliminate trans-Atlantic runs since the big airports (Paris, London, Frankfurt, etc.) are all just a train ride away. You just need one. I wonder if they will go back to “private” cars for the “Worthies”. Some of the “oldies” had spiffy wood interiors, kitchens, and sleeping suites, while the “employees” were back in the Coach “cattle cars”. If you don’t have to stop at stations, you can make good time. Europe doesn’t have the High Plains like the US and Canada (e.g. Kansas, Nebraska, Montana, etc.) to eat up the hours. My late wife and I considered a trans-Canadian run, but the service was canceled. There were not enough stupid tourists willing to spend forever looking out the window at nothing. European trains were pleasant except for Baba. Baba is short for babushka (grandmother). They were typically about 4 feet tall and carried about 17 bags of whatever grandmas carry. They are hard to block and if you get in her way, the encounter is similar to a football scrimmage. Granny always gets to the goal. I suppose that they will separate the Babas from the “Elites”.
Passenger trains are horribly expensive due to costs of land, amenities, and equipment. There is no way to make passenger service “cheap”. The “money maker” for the rail roads is bulk cargo (oil, grain, coal, containers, etc.) Those 100+ car trains start and stop with difficulty and have a crew of 1 or 2. The passenger train (stop then go like Hell) have a crew of minders, need clean bathrooms, heating and AC, need electric power, WiFi, etc. passenger service will never be “cheap” and it interferes with the profitable freight business. Maybe the Europeans will find a way to do both. In a densely populated area, it may work, if it doesn’t booger the freight system too much. Mostly, switching a mass of passenger travel from aircraft to the rails sounds like a ploy designed by someone who spent too much time playing with his toy trains. Alternatively, it may be a plan from a politician who figures on collecting lots of grift from the necessary construction and equipment purchases.
Mike-SMO…”ploy designed by someone who spent too much time playing with his toy trains”
A Chinese railway expert (a *very brave* Chinese railway expert) made a similar comment about his government’s excessive focus on prestige passenger rail vs workaday freight rail.
Neo
When has the possibility of a desire ever prevented the left from trying to act upon it? Why, it’s just the thing to encourage the construction of more rail lines.
If I’m reading the story correctly and it is accurate, this is a consequence of statutory law, not an administrative regulation. At least there’s that.
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If things are as they were ca 1981, France has an agreeable train network and may have the capacity to absorb the extra passengers. In this country, AmTrack is responsible for an inconsequential slice of passenger trips, so would never have the capacity. It’s also expensive and the schedules are often hopelessly inconvenient. I like trains and they are more comfortable than airplanes. In this country, they appear to be economically viable only for freight hauling.
The passenger train (stop then go like Hell) have a crew of minders, need clean bathrooms, heating and AC, need electric power, WiFi, etc.
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IOW, like passenger air travel.
The European governments are keeping the railrods afloat with subsidies so this may reduce gubbmint costs.
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All of them? How much is the subsidy?
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Note, if car and truck transport were free of subsidy, maintenance and amortization of limited access highways would be paid for by tolls and that of ordinary public roads would be paid for by a mix of vehicle registration fees and excises on motor fuels. When you make opaque costs transparent, the smart money says you get a lot of bitching and moaning. You’ll notice the sensible things not done in 1973. (The prevalence of economically illiterate lawyers in public office also inhibits doing sensible things).
At home, any trip of less than 500 miles I drive.
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Not catching me driving 500 miles.