It’s become the norm to talk about wanting to kill Trump or at the very least wanting him to die – and to be proud of it
It was early in Trump’s first term that I noticed people talking about killing Trump. These were people I knew and had known for five decades or more. I’d never talked about politics before with these people, and I hadn’t been aware that they’d had any especially deeply-held feelings about politics. But all of a sudden, each of them stated in a casual manner that they wanted Trump killed.
It was the casual manner that got me. Neither knew my political leanings, but it was assumed that I agreed with them – didn’t everyone who didn’t sport a tail, horns, and a swastika tattoo? With the first person I was so stunned I said nothing. But later, with the second person, I challenged him – to no avail.
You’ve probably seen similar public statements from Trump-haters over the years – on TV and on social media, for example. It’s become standard. In the last year I’ve heard it again from two different friends, each of them people I’ve known for many years and who’ve never spoken this way before. Neither have any history of being leftist firebrands and in fact each have long been political moderates.
But not on the topic of Trump, apparently. The first was over the phone, and my long-time friend said that if she ever was given a terminal diagnosis she would try to kill Trump. This seemed only slightly tongue-in-cheek and deeply unfunny. She went on to vent quite a bit on how much she hated him. My response was that I hope she never receives a terminal diagnosis.
The most recent person to express this was even more disturbing. This was from an old friend who’s one of the most mild-mannered people I know – ordinarily. We were having lunch and catching up, since I hadn’t seen him in a long while, and towards the end of the meal he said that if he had a rifle (which he doesn’t) and if Trump came anywhere on his property (which Trump won’t) he would kill him. With the previous people saying this, they’d only given very general reasons why; I guess they thought his evil was so very obvious it needed no explanation. But this time I asked him why, and his answer stunned me: it was that Trump wasn’t even human. This was said with vehemence and a kind of fervor and certainty that indicated a very deeply held belief.
Again, I asked why he said that. I wish I could remember his exact words, but it was something to the effect that it was obvious just by looking at him – that he cared about no one and nothing but himself, and that he didn’t love America but hated it. He offered no particular evidence and I didn’t press it; to pursue the conversation was going to be counterproductive. This was a person who already knew my general politics, but I think he assumed that despite being on the right that I, as a moral and upright person, would be a Trump-hater too.
There are a great many people like this, and their sentiments are considered perfectly okay and even moral by other people just like them, people I would never have described as political activists or leftists, but who want Trump dead and probably are surrounded by others who want him dead too. The sentiment has been mainstreamed, and it happened quite early in Trump’s first term although it’s only gotten worse..
A couple of days before the White House Correspondents’ Dinner, Jimmy Kimmel did a sketch about the coming festivities. It was supposedly funny, and there certainly were plenty of people or bots in the comments to this video who seem to think it was indeed funny. Here are a few seconds that got a lot of attention in retrospect, for obvious reasons:
Today Melania Trump issued a reaction:
“Kimmel’s hateful and violent rhetoric is intended to divide our country. His monologue about my family isn’t comedy- his words are corrosive and deepens the political sickness within America.” …
“People like Kimmel shouldn’t have the opportunity to enter our homes each evening to spread hate. A coward, Kimmel hides behind ABC because he knows the network will keep running cover to protect him,” she said. “Enough is enough. It is time for ABC to take a stand. How many times will ABC’s leadership enable Kimmel’s atrocious behavior at the expense of our community.”
Good luck with that; I don’t think it’s going to happen. There’s an audience for it and an appetite for it, and although Kimmel doesn’t have high ratings I don’t see them pulling him.
Last night I came across the following video and clicked on it because of the title. I kept watching it because it periodically featured people – I believe mostly from TikTok? – expressing the most outrageous death wishes on Trump, with a venom that is extraordinary and no sense of needing to hide their sentiments. For example, two very short segments:
Those aren’t even the worst ones. Here’s the whole thing, in case you’re interested:
There’s plenty more where that came from. What’s happened is not just a norming of such behavior – although there’s that – but a message that it’s not only okay but that’s it’s cool and virtuous, something of which to be proud.
It spreads like a contagion. Some people are more vulnerable to it than others, but I couldn’t have predicted in advance who among my friends would be most vulnerable to it. I also have plenty of friends and relatives who are Democrats and who detest Trump, but at least I’ve never heard them wish him dead.
I enjoy Mr. Peter. He has his head screwed on right.
Hasan Piker recently justified the murder of the healthcare insurance CEO.
Who created our current healthcare insurance system? It seems to me if people hate what the system produces they should hate those that created it.
From: https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2026/04/the-road-were-on.php
In the conversation published by the Times, Piker explained:
Friedrich Engels wrote about the concept of social murder. And Brian Thompson, as the United Healthcare C.E.O., was engaging in a tremendous amount of social murder. The systematized forms of violence, the structural violence of poverty, the for-profit, paywalled system of health care in this country — and the consequences of that are tremendous amounts of pain, tremendous amounts of violence, tremendous amounts of deaths. And that was a fascinating story for me, because Americans are very draconian about crime and punishment. They’re very black and white on this issue.
And yet, because of the pervasive pain that the private health care system had created for the average American, I saw so many people immediately understand why this death had taken place. Even before they knew who the shooter was or what the motive was, we had universalized this pain so much so that virtually every American has a similar experience. A shared experience, where they have a loved one who spent their last days — instead of spending them with their family — spending it on the phone, talking to their health care provider to maybe get a little bit of economic respite so they don’t carry on medical debt for their next generation, for their next of kin.
That’s a harrowing process for a lot of people. And for them, that is murder; for them, that is torture. And that is the reason why, I think, the reaction to Luigi Mangione, especially by younger generations, was not so negative.
I wonder how those who have no problem w violent acts towards and even murder of Trump would react if they got a punch in the face for advocating such violence.
I am reminded of the “journalist” who back in 2019 told us that the high school student at the Washington Monument had a “punchable face.”
This is exactly what I’ve been observing in D friends/family for the last 2 years. It’s quite frightening to me. How so many people who are otherwise normal become psychotic when it comes to Trump. Mass population delusion. It’s this mass mental illness that will spark either CW2, or great right vs left violence.
And the Democrats/media are perfectly fine with that.
I wonder how those who have no problem w violent acts towards and even murder of Trump would react if they got a punch in the face for advocating such violence.
They don’t expect consequences. Most seem to be women, and the males tend to be soy boys. Usually from nice neighborhoods where they were insulated.
As a general trend I have noticed women often lack appreciation of possible consequences.
In the late 90s or early 2000s, I was at a party at the house of some of my wife’s family’s friends in a nice upper middle class neighborhood. One guest was a young attractive female, very tiny. Probably dot Indian. This woman was happy talking about an incident she was involved in at a stop light, and how she smashed some dude’s lights out. She couldn’t have defended herself from the average 13 year old boy and was 100% dependent on the dude’s restraint. She was very happy about causing damage with impunity.
And the Democrats/media are perfectly fine with that.
They won’t be if the results are not what they want.
We all remember having Republican friends wishing the same thing on Obama, right? Never ever happened. I just can not understand the blood lust of the Dems. I have lived through too many assassinations. Do not want to see another one. No matter who.
I do not think that those who wish for it, understand what would happen afterwards.
There are some interesting black conservative podcasters out there with interesting things to say.
I think it’s much tougher for older white Democrats to change. I expect very little from that cohort.
First, I want to point out that two veterans of the blogosphere, Neo and Ann Althouse, are among the most sensible, level-headed voices in social media, and they are both women of intelligence and moderation. However, I have noticed in the general population the voices of many women are hate-filled and intemperate with a high level of self-righteousness. Why? One can only speculate.
SHIREHOME on April 27, 2026 at 5:49 pm said:
We all remember having Republican friends wishing the same thing on Obama, right? Never ever happened. I just can not understand the blood lust of the Dems. I have lived through too many assassinations. Do not want to see another one. No matter who.
I do not think that those who wish for it, understand what would happen afterwards.
I don’t recall the right wishing for harm to come to Obama. I don’t recall ever wanting it myself. I considered him toxic for America, and I wanted him to fail because I though his success would harm America, but I never wished harm on him.
Rather what I wished was that people would see how toxic he was. And I had no concern for him, rather I didn’t see that harm to him would be beneficial.
This is even moreso the case with the hapless Biden and Harris. They were not the ones actually leading things, there was no point whatsoever in wishing them harm.
The left has gotten used to controlling our culture and they are deeply resentful that control is being challenged. With only a few exceptions, they have controlled large company, boardrooms, news media, the entertainment industry, the government run education system from kindergarten to graduate school, the federal government bureaucracy, and others that don’t occur to me now.
It certainly seems to me that we are headed for a Civil War. In Kurt Schlichter’s book, American Apocalypse, the triggering event was an attempted confiscation of firearms by the leftst government, who had taken power by assasinating President Trump and VP Vance when the Democrats controlled the House, and therefore the Speaker. That is as plausible an event as any.
In the book, the red states win the war, but the United States loses many of our freedoms that were abused by the left.
physicsguy, these are indeed frightening times.
Don:
The people I know like this are almost all men, and not “soy boys.”
Unless you have hard statistics, don’t assume its mostly women. And by the way, all the actual attempts have been men.
I’m now seeing critiques of Allen’s manifesto by my D acquaintances. They basically say he is correct in every aspect, except they still say voting is best. However, they attach the caveat that voting didn’t help with keeping Trump out of office. The wink and nod is implied that they wish someone would be successful in their attempts.
When your next door neighbor wishes for such political violence, we are on a very dangerous path.
I see equal numbers of men and women voting for such violence.
I need some education. I haven’t followed popular culture, especially TV, for decades with the exception of watching pro football. When Trump first ran for president in 2015 I had no idea who he was. He seemed to have been quite popular before then and I had no idea why. Was the mere act of running against Hillary enough to flip the script? Was it his less than polite language as a tough guy from Queens when dealing with her? Your comments please.
I think the source of all this is Hillary, a woman scorned. It seemed to manifest when she lost and has intensified since.
Had that brainwashed idiot succeeded in a mass slaughter it would have directly led to CWII. Those gleefully wishing for Trump’s assassination are too filled with ideological hate to recognize they’re dancing along the edge of this society’s cliff.
Language
I’m old enough to know that this is not entirely new, though it has hit a new peak. I remember talk like this about Bush II (including by Tom Lehrer), and Reagan, and Nixon. Oddly, I don’t remember anyone talking about killing Ford, though two women tried.
https://www.city-journal.org/article/women-political-violence-digital-online
Is there such a thing as estrogen progressing progressive psychosis? (sarc). A truly awful disease.
The inverse of testosterone poisoning.
I suggest clicking Tinashe Peter’s YouTube link and at least giving him a thumbs up for this video.
Rich Lowry takes the elephant in the “manifesto” head on.
The Vile Smear Endangering Trump’s Life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON8UkeslxAE
Ben Shapiro visits and addresses the University of Austin in Texas, taking as his topic “Why we seem to hate each other here in the United States”. The full program includes two introductions, Ben’s speech, a Q&A with Joe Lonsdale and a Q&A from the audience/students. (1:17:39). It’s a quick and cogent presentation from Shapiro, worthy of consideration.
https://www.youtube.com/live/fJb5aEJ8FA0
Theres a lot of money in it data republican has the receipts of a small part of these events
The chinese the iranians and the russians have a part in this
Who is funding hasan piker or cenk uygur for that matter
One of my neighbors put up a sign that says “Make America Trumpless Again.” I wonder if the implications have occurred to him.
I think you’ve put your finger onto something: ‘Contagion’. I get the same vibe with this idea that assassination is an excusable, understandable offense if the target is the President.
I admit befuddlement when I hear these thoughts being expressed with such confidence, as if it’s normal. I think to myself that surely these people cannot be serious to be nurturing such sentiments. But they are.
This is very similar to the feelings that I had during COVID, watching people scramble to get packages of toilet paper, as they were rolled out on a pallet from the back of the supermarket. The pallet was emptied in seconds. The meat department was similarly laid bare. I watched it happening, and could find no connection to those people behaving like locusts. All in masks. Social contagion.
It’s the only explanation I can fit to this bizarre behavioral response. But I still struggle to understand how something as simple as a toxic media environment could bring it about. Are people really that suggestible? Is it really possible to wage subliminal influence campaigns that are this effective? Are the people doing it really that sinister, that evil? That they would be comfortable with this expertise?
Social attitudes mirror those of its leaders and trendsetters. Our entertainment-movie industry is a driver, featuring only violence and casual sex. And so it spreads. Violence in sex and death are OK in our freedom-of-expression constitutionality. But Jefferson and Madison could not, did not, contemplate the degraded depths to which we have reduced ourselves. They assumed persistence of morality supported by small individual families on their self-supporting farms in like-minded communities, with customary normal church attendance. Which we have vigorously discarded in the lower and middle income classes. Oddly, the upper class wealthy still hold those truths to be self-evident (not to coin a phrase!).
The left has gotten used to controlling our culture and they are deeply resentful that control is being challenged. With only a few exceptions, they have controlled large company, boardrooms, news media, the entertainment industry, the government run education system from kindergarten to graduate school, the federal government bureaucracy, and others that don’t occur to me now. — Bob Wilson
This. It is about the power the left wields. Everything the leadership says in front of cameras is poll tested. Tested to influence, and to incite.
Just to pick one example: Remember Mitt Romney’s presidential run? Certainly not my favorite candidate. But I recall being impressed by what I learned about the committed charitable actions and giving of Mormons generally, and Romney specifically.
But because Romney was a threat, Sen. Harry Reid said that Romney did not pay any income taxes. Romney responded the way that Republicans usually respond. He ignored the claim. That is ALWAYS a mistake. While Romney did make a big tax free score in one of his retirement accounts, he paid a ton of taxes in his tax returns, which came out after the election. Plus, the Romney’s gave enormous sums to charities that actually fed, clothed, and sheltered indigent people (which is not taxes).
Here is the point: When Harry Reid was questioned about his lie, he responded, “Well he [Romney] lost the election didn’t he?”
THIS… is how they think and operate.
Aggie:
Yes, many people are suggestible. Propaganda works.
But I disagree about the tp during early COVID. I don’t see any analogy. Once shortages were established it was actually extremely difficult to find tp anywhere. Perhaps it depended on where you live, but where I live, stores often just didn’t have it. It’s pretty much a necessity. So when people saw it, they bought it and it disappeared very quickly.
@ Geoffrey Britain > “Had that brainwashed idiot succeeded in a mass slaughter it would have directly led to CWII.”
Civil War Eleven, if you went to a Quality Learing Center .
https://twitchy.com/grateful-calvin/2026/04/27/ilhan-omar-world-war-eleven-n2427602
“Everyone knows that at least nine of our World Wars were caused by that Bad Orange Man.”
Paul in Boston: Are you asking how Trump, seemingly against all odds, got elected in the first place? The place to look is not his manner/personality, which on one hand attracts a lot of attention but on the other repels many. The key is his actual political beliefs. His stances on his two bedrock issues, trade and immigration, were the same as those that were held for decades by the industrial labor unions that used to be the heart of the *Democrat* coalition. They opposed illegal immigration because it was cheap labor driving down the wages of American workers. And they were skeptical of so-called “free trade” because they saw a lot of good American jobs going offshore.
Trump won in 2016 by flipping rust belt states that hadn’t voted Republican in decades. After a decade, Democrats still refuse to own up to the fact that Trump stole their base, that is why they are so unhinged.
A soft communist coup of the USA was facilitated by “educators,” social media, legacy media, and Democrats.
As CICERO suggests, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” – John Adams
Neo and physicsguy, would you call your violent-minded friends “moral and religious people”?
The Democratic Party is a tremendously effective 24/7 hate generator.
The CORRUPT Media is a tremendously effective 24/7 hate force multiplier.
The Covid campaign—perhaps even the vaccine itself—was a tremendously effective 24/7 insanity machine.
(I bet Goebbels is crazy jealous…somewhere down there…in the pits of hell.)
And a reminder from Stephen Green (at Instapundit):
“The sitting Virginia Attorney General literally fantasized about kiIIing a Republican opponent and his kids”—
https://instapundit.com/793039/
+ Bonus:
“Nothing infuriates an uninformed Congressional Dem more than when they realize they voluntarily triggered a debate with someone who actually knows what they are talking about, reads federal statute and adheres to Supreme Court precedent…”
https://instapundit.com/793042/
Related (Turley):
‘The Moral Malaise: The New York Times Makes The Case For “Microlooting” To Murder’—
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/moral-malaise-new-york-times-makes-case-microlooting-murder
The new, refurbished Ten Commandments…
(Brought to you by our moral betters…):
…Thou shalt bear false witness.
Thou shalt lie.
Thou shalt impugn.
Thou shalt steal.
Thou shalt murder…
+ Bonus:
Thou shalt tell deranged, hateful, toxic “jokes” over and over again.
Thou shalt feel triumphant righteous indignation.
Thou shalt believe you are a perennial victim; hence thou shalt feel justified in perennially victimizing others.
Thou shalt believe that that there are NO consequences to your words and actions (cf. Obadiah 1:15)
Etc., etc., etc.
“Jimmy Kimmel repeats ‘hateful’ joke about ‘expectant widow’ Melania Trump in attempt to defend himself after WHCD shooting”—
https://nypost.com/2026/04/28/us-news/jimmy-kimmel-repeats-hateful-joke-about-melania-trump-in-attempt-to-defend-himself/
File under: “Proclaim HATE throughout the Land”…
You Americans speak casually and with gusto about bouncing the rubble in foreign parts, about assassinating this or that foreign leader you don’t like this week.
Why should anyone be surprised that you are so blasé about killing each other?
Perhaps it’s just in your nature?
Is it a stretch to see how a population could turn into genocide maniacs?
Steve Sailer:
And you seem rather fond of absurd strawman arguments.
@Neo
Pseudo-Steve Sailer also seems to have his namesake’s love of Jew Baiting and third world terror shilling, but as much as I loathe the real man he is certainly proud to be American and does not view Americans as a “you/your” outsider.
https://thenewneo.com/2026/04/22/i-wonder-who-in-iran-made-this-decision-and-why/#comment-2849072
Is it just me or does this one seem to be asking for the banhammer?
“The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.”
D.H. Lawrence
Turtler:
Yes.
We mostly try to do the right thing, but some people just can’t be reasoned with. The left however are just vicious sore losers.
An interesting article about women , feminism and leftist radicalism.
https://www.dmrpublications.com/orwells-warning-about-feminism/
Sad, and dangerous.
I have not personally encountered any Trump derangement, but that is probably because I live in a very traditionally Christian/patriotic community. My kids have gifted me on occasion with Trump-supporting tee shirts, which I don without really thinking about it. However, the only comments I have ever received when I encounter others in public while so attired were positive, although usually muted. On the other hand, my grandsons took a ski trip to Stowe this past winter and when they returned, the second thing they remarked upon (the first being the excellence of the conditions) was the preponderance of other skiers whose casual lift/gondola conversation was full of Trump criticisms, spoken as if such sentiments were universal, as well as the display of “rainbow flags” and yard signs proclaiming solidarity with BLM, trans, and the usual “In this house…”. To them, it was quite strange and offputting, thank God. We are clearly no longer “One Nation, under God…”. We are becoming (or perhaps already have become) a country that mimics Orwell’s Oceania in many ways. However, there are still many patriotic people, probably too many, for “The Party” that seeks to rule over us to succeed. Not to mention that it is we who have the means to resist.
“Neo and physicsguy, would you call your violent-minded friends “moral and religious people”?”
Selfy,
And that is the conundrum. In every other aspect of their lives, they act within the general morality of our culture. They don’t beat puppies and babies, they don’t steal, they’ll lend a helping hand to their neighbors, etc. My BiL is extremely active in the Catholic Church. Yet…..when it comes to Trump, and now through the relentless propaganda, conservatives and republicans in general, the “violent minds” turn on. I keep wishing that someone well-versed in psychology could explain this phenomenon to me, and also provide a solution. I haven’t seen such. If it exists it might even save the country from some terrible consequences.
It does certainly seem like a contagion, but there seems to be no antibiotic to employ.
Steve, you are very lucky.
Planned Presidenthood? The Person of Orange (PoO) has been deemed a life unworthy. Entertaining abortive ideation, a wicked solution, to relieve a “burden” is an ethical Choice. Demos-cracy is aborted at the twilight fringe.
Calling them “Sore losers” misses the True Believer mindset that animates both Lefties and Muzzies. Even when faced with undeniable, crushing defeat, as long as they live to draw another breath – even in miserable ruins of Gaza or New York – they will not admit they have lost.
This is yet another asymmetry that should drive normies to be tougher and less understanding.
Based on my experience here in Israel, that insight – and the willingness to dispense tough love – is often long in coming. When you factor in the Left’s capture of the catbird seats in culture, media, and academia – it takes a lot of pain for people to start pushing back against the (self-)anointed.
I find this the most disconcerting issue regarding the demise of our Republic. What happened among the “average populous” in Germany (and embraced elsewhere) eventuated in millions dead in the western Judeo-Christian world.
And that is the conundrum. In every other aspect of their lives, they act within the general morality of our culture. They don’t beat puppies and babies, they don’t steal, they’ll lend a helping hand to their neighbors, etc. My BiL is extremely active in the Catholic Church. Yet…..when it comes to Trump, and now through the relentless propaganda, conservatives and republicans in general, the “violent minds” turn on. Physicsguy
And this is what is proof of a terrible schism in our Republic. As “rule of the law” conservatives, we have been bullied and robbed by unelected bureaucratic entities ad infinitum–and there has been no mass of people subverting the framework to deal with this these many years. And certainly no assasination attempts at the likes of Presidents Obama and Biden–administrations that proliferated the destruction. As for the “moral” group among our political adversaries-any individual who aligns with violence as a way to deal with disagreement, has abandoned the structure of dissent that is our Republic. No excuses allowed–especially since they have enjoyed rampant success at facilitating their policies in the civil arena and only now are facing redress.
Trump was a New York Democrat for most of his life. If he had run for president as a Democrat they all would have voted for him.
They hate him because he is an apostate.
I heard car horns honking and people cheering on the street outside of my building a few days ago, and my first thought was someone finally shot and killed Trump. It was just a Greek Independence celebration, but I believe that his assassination would be marked by large spontaneous celebrations in the streets of every city in the country (and probably most every city in the world).
Give peace a chance…
Or we’ll kill you.
Trump was a New York Democrat for most of his life.
==
He wasn’t. He was an enrolled Republican from 1969 to 1985 and a non-partisan enrollee for most of the next 30 years. His sketchy niece said she never heard a political discussion at her grandfather’s house that did not have as its focus the effect of political life on the family business.
==
Although there are other factors, the deal breaker in re Trump was that he proposed to actually enforce the immigration laws.
Pseudo-Steve Sailer also seems to have his namesake’s love of Jew Baiting and third world terror shilling, but as much as I loathe the real man
==
You’ve confused Sailer himself with his combox acolytes. Sailer offers from time to time some dubious assertions (e.g. that Wm. Kristol sold the Iraq War to G.W. Bush to protect Israel) and associated himself ca. 2002 with ill-considered paulbot critiques of American foreign policy. His most salient intellectual project – reducing sociology to anthropology and tests-and-measurements psychology and reducing those two to biology doesn’t have much to do with Jews per se. He’s also notable for lite versions of consqpirazoid thinking (which are more plausible nowadays than they were 25 years ago). He’s been a consistent critic of the immigration tsunami.
“The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.”
==
This is cr!p.
I absolutely heard a Republican wish someone would shoot Obama. She was (sadly now deceased) a kind, intelligent, and loving woman who loathed and hated Obama because he embodied things she regarded as morally corrupt. She didn’t mean it literally, but neither do most, but of course not all, of the Dems saying it now. It’s easy to say crap like that in anger when you personally aren’t involved, it’s abstract. The same drive animates lefties now, on a grander scale.
The root of the hate is quite simple: incompatible core beliefs and values. We’ve become diverse, and with diversity comes anger and resentment and distrust and hate, as a natural consequence of human nature and human tribalism. It’s not even Trump that drives it, any more than it was GWB when that same hate was flowing 20 years ago. ANY President attempting to implement the policies we want would generate that hate, because the policies are seen as a direct attack on them and their own beliefs and tribe. Politicians and influencers can shape it, but they don’t generate the underlying rage.
If that underlying, initial rage was not already present, all the propaganda in the world would be a waste of time.
Interestingly, Neil Howe and William Straus predicted a period like this decades ago, as the Boomer generation reaches late-life, still animated by the same passions and beliefs they have been for decades.
The educated Left, to a first approximation, wants the world of John Lennon’s Imagine and the old Coke Christmas commercials where the multiracial multiethnic multifaith kids gather to make a tree and sing together. Of course, they take for granted the primacy of educated secular-western values in that, but the rage arises from the perception that this dream is under attack.
They aren’t persuadable unless you can convince them that the goal itself, the dream itself, is invalid…and that would mean setting aside a lifetime of belief.
The politicians and influencers and PR men just shape and guide the rage.
— Art Deco
I assume you meant it was crap.
I would say it’s 1/2 of the essential American soul. Yes, that side of our collective personality is real, and it exists. But the other side is dominant most of the time. The side Lawrence is talking about comes out in extremis,, that’s the side that is utterly ruthless in war and other matters and it’s best not to awaken if you can avoid it. But it is there.
Ben David:
But hasn’t Israel gotten less and less leftist over the years?
“The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.” -DH Lawrence
I don’t think it’s limited to Americans.
This describes the natural man left to his/her own devices.
I suggested to Grok that “every society that turns/abandons God’s precepts has ended in ruin”.
It gave me a few examples of Eastern countries that didn’t fit that statement. But refined my assertion.
@Art Deco
Firstly: No not really. They tend to be far more odious and shallow than Sailer himself, who as you pointed out does things other than Jew Bait, but they are his acolytes for a reason. Check out what he has said about Jews or Israel (preferably directly and not through a filter) as well as other dubious things like Sailer’s Law of Shootings. To what little credit I will give the mofo he is less outright prone to Israel bashing than most of the left and a lot of the “Woke Right” such as the amused note that Coates coming out against October 7th required far more courage than demonizing white people (true) and asking if he would remain such a golden child if he continued punching “sideways” rather than punching “down.”
But he also traffics in a lot of horrid nonsense, like theatrically doubting if there are left wing donors that are anti-Israel and can finance the Dems (which should have been obvious for half a century, because the answer is yes and has been for a while), and a lot more dubious as well as playing up stuff like the Dual Loyalty stuff (and I say this mid post where I was writing how unseemly it was for Horowitz to make Israel one of the masthead reasons for outright supporting Republicans, but while noting how – as Sailer himself noted when it does not directly gut the thesis he is pushing – the lack of ethical or spiritual affinity for Israel dominates much of the world’s Jews and helps explain much of the left wing, globalist, secular tinge of many Jews in the US).
In essence he supports the existence of Israel as a kind of ethnostate of the Jews, interprets Jewish identity primarily through an ethnic:racial lens (which while having large elements of truth to it downplays or ignores the spiritual side of it), and likes tiptoeing around things like how harsh society or the state should pursue the eugenicist positions he advocates.
There are definitely far more odious and far less interesting creatures than Sailer (Carlson and Owens come to mind) even on the right and I will not deny his stances on Western civilization, the US, Israel, and Ukraine put us in the same trench network. But Winston Churchill and Oswald Mosley were also in the same trench network once upon a time. And in any case that he attracts so many Gormless Jew baiting idiots as his acolytes is not an accident, but a reflection.
Secondly: Considering you tried to whitewash Pat Buchanan by claiming he was not a Jew Hater in spite of his multiple tracts whitewashing Jew Hating monsters like Hitler and Kaiser Wilhelm II and demonizing the likes of Churchill and Wilson far beyond any justifiable explanation, claiming Hitler did not want war (something that flies in the face of almost all his philosophical, practical, and ideological writings and actions), and claiming only Israel and its “amen corner” wanted the US to fight Saddam’s Iraq in 1990-1…. You might want to sit this one out. Because this is starting to look like a pattern.
Frankly “dubious” is not even what I am concerned about with his assertions. It is the outright horseshit ones that get me, as well as misuse of actual facts to advance dodgy nonsense (the infamous claim that Hitler murdered far fewer people in the name of inequality than the communists did in the name of equality ignores both the nature of the Nazi Volksgemeinschaft as both hierarchical but defined by kinship and a fundamental equality on race and nationality that justified why the Fuhrership was not to be hereditary, as well as that from the people the Nazis had power over and the time they did their murder rate was higher than almost any communist regime save Pol Pot’s).
Indeed, though it is a testimony that I find him less outright stupid or dishonest than most Paulbits and even a lot of Buchananites on foreign policy, since he at least can acknowledge threats.
Firstly: that per se is doing so much heavy lifting maybe Atlas could successfully shrug the sky onto its shoulders. It is certainly true Sailer’s interests go far beyond Jews, but they have much to do with that interest. Namely that he views them as a high IQ vanguard minority par excellence and talks about them extensively as useful asset, ally, threat, and competitor. He certainly lacks the outright poisonous hatred of many of his half baked imitators, but the obsession remains, as does the like of Jew baiting or using Jews for bait for other audiences.
Secondly: As much as I love anthropology, trying to dumb down sociology to a marriage of anthropology and psychology is some of the dumbest stuff I have seen and heard because humanity simply does not work like that. Nor do most higher animals including the likes of turtles or dogs. Those things are hugely important, as is genetic inheritance vis a vis things like intelligence and mood, but at least as important are outside stressors or boons and how we cope with them. As are different forms of intelligence or social skills; I can fully believe that Einstein’s IQ was vastly above that of say Adam Smith but it did not prevent the latter from having a far healthier and more in depth grasp of human nature and economics than Einstein’s tendency towards domestic neglect and socialist Utopianism.
Which often have a number of problems.
Credit is due where credit is due, and I will not deny him due credit for that. But a lot of other due credits are less charming to him.
Turtler:
I want to add that Jews can be of any race or ethnicity, both because they are widely dispersed and have been for millennia and there has been some intermixing, plus conversion is open to anyone who puts in the study and hours and is serious about it. There are plenty of converts of different races.
Ladyhobbit on April 27, 2026 at 10:19 pm said:
“One of my neighbors put up a sign that says “Make America Trumpless Again.” I wonder if the implications have occurred to him.”
When we look at some of the public/policy reactions after a president was assassinated, we have:
1) After Lincoln: the push to complete the 1866 Voting Rights Act and the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments. Too bad about Andrew Johnson and Reconstruction, though.
2) McKinley: I can’t speak well to that period of history but several here can.
3) Kennedy: LBJ pushed through the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voting Rights Act, plus the Great Society
4) The attempt on Reagan? I will defer to others here for that history afterwards. But perhaps it really requires the target actually dying to provide the “shame-drive-force” to honor his agenda?
5) Not a president, but the assassination of Charlie Kirk seems to have bolstered the programs of Turning Point USA
6) So we could (hypothetically) well expect Vance and others to push stronger positions on immigration/deportation, fighting the Leftist/Progressive NGO and related fraud, may or may not succeed with Iran? Muddle through on the debt/deficit?
physicsguy on April 28, 2026 at 9:10 am
“I keep wishing that someone well-versed in psychology could explain this phenomenon to me, and also provide a solution.” While not providing definitive answers to this, perhaps we should start here: “Our emotions are a much more basic decision-making mechanism than our reason and well precede it in evolutionary development. Tribalism is also normative and can have great emotional power. Politics operates by mobilising shared emotions and sense of belonging. Normative is not the same as moral.”
This is the 2nd to last paragraph at: https://www.lorenzofromoz.net/p/political-categories-are-not-moral
HC68 on April 28, 2026 at 2:15 pm
“They aren’t persuadable unless you can convince them that the goal itself, the dream itself, is invalid…and that would mean setting aside a lifetime of belief.” Looking at LorenzoFromOz.net again, I can’t find a suitable essay quickly, but in several of them over the last year plus, he suggests the reason the Rousseauxian/ Marxist/ Progressive / Leftist position is so hard to counter is because their future vision is a utopia that cannot and never will provide any metrics or feedback that might call their goals and programs into serious question.
@ R2L > “the reason the Rousseauxian/ Marxist/ Progressive / Leftist position is so hard to counter is because their future vision is a utopia that cannot and never will provide any metrics or feedback that might call their goals and programs into serious question.”
Bingo.
And they will suppress any such metrics or feedback with tooth and claw.
You have to remember that hating your perceived enemy & wanting him dead is a human norm.
It wasn’t a norm here because we had a Christian society which taught otherwise & a Hippocratic Oath that made life sacred.
When you realize that the 10 commandments & the teachings of Christianity are directly opposed to human nature these developments make a lot more sense.
Once you removed prayer from schools & played with the oath it took only 3 generations to reach this point.
This is Democrat Derangement, produced and desired by Dems using their Demonization Strategy.
Lie about the target, so that no more words need to be spoken to be in agreement that the target is evil. A dictator, a Nazi, a Hitler.
The Dem morality is based on the human Hitler as the Devil, so G Good is to be against Hitler. No need for God, nor any limits on Human.
The Demonize their target, equate him to Hitler, and then the fact of his evilness is enough to justify getting rid of him.
This Demonization creates a Derangement in some people, so much so they actually try to kill the target. Now Trump, but also Charlie Kirk, and all Rep Presidents.
The Demonization will be redirected after Trump leaves, tho many will continue believing lies about him. Whoever is the Rep nominee, Vance, De Santis, Rubio.
Like Kavanaugh, all will be subjected to lies & false accusations which are loudly publicized, and many gullible Dems will believe them.