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Jordan Peterson talks to Chloe Cole — 64 Comments

  1. Every surgeon, every physician, every psychiatrist, every psychologist, every social worker, every lawyer, every Munchausen mommy involved in these travesties belongs in the same place – prison.

  2. I watched this entire thing the other day and it is very good.

    Sad, very sad, but good.

    The last half hour is mostly about her current condition and the problems she is experiencing. Reading between the lines from what she said it sounds like all hope is not lost for her in regards to having children.

  3. I gather from hearing her talk that she doesn’t put too much blame on her parents and seems to still be on good terms with them.

    She also did a podcast with Benjamin Boyce a while back where she talked about this.

    Impressive young woman. Hard to believe she is still only 18.

  4. AD… you are more gracious than I when considering the appropriate recourse for those guilty of such butchery as Ms Cole experienced.

  5. And of course the Covid school closures played a big part in her depression and confusion. Specifically the forced isolation and online life.

    The evil of lockdowns (especially schools) will be felt for a long, long time.

  6. How did the cream of Western society become so depraved? So perverted?

    I guess the mind—and conscience—is a very malleable “muscle”.
    Perversity redefined/reconfigured as “morality”.
    Cowardice as “courage”.
    Brutality as “compassion”.
    Decadence as “probity”.
    Immaturity as “responsibility”.
    Dishonesty as “truth”.

    It’s as if we’re in some Biblical or Classical Roman-cum-Orwellian nightmare.
    The Golden Calf? Satyricon?
    How can a society extricate itself from this utter confusion?

  7. Griffin:

    Her parents were told that if they didn’t consent there was a strong likelihood she would commit suicide. That message is often delivered to parents.

  8. I have not yet viewed the video – I certainly plan to – but in cases such as hers, where are the parents???
    At 13 years of age she is placed on puberty blockers; where are the parents?
    A double mastectomy at 15; where are the parents??

    And how on earth can any medical professional believe that they – the doctors – are doing the right thing. How can they possibly live with themselves?
    I guess the ghost of Joseph Mengele lives on.

    This entire transition trend for young people reminds me of the daycare child molestation hysteria of the 1980s – 90s in which child psychologists were totally sure that some 4 year old had horrific things done to them, yet there was no hard evidence whatsoever that anything had occurred.
    Many people went to jail based upon the opinions of these “experts.”

    Apparently today, child / teen psychologists are once again at the “vanguard” promoting their crazy /insane / sick / perverted notions upon vulnerable young people and their incredibly gullible ( if not stupid) parents.

    Yep, these medical “professionals” would have been right at home at Auschwitz plying their experimental medical procedures on those unfortunate souls.

    But hey, we have “Rachel” Levine, assistant Gauleiter of joke Bidet’s HHS, talking about “nurturing’ trans youth, so I guess it’s OK to have children or teens subjected to medical experimentation to satisfy the sick ideas of trans adults.

    Frankly, I could care less if adults wish to transition; all the power to them. But when they encourage children or young adults to transition, that is simply sick and disgusting.

    But the bottom line is that parents are the ones that give the go-ahead for these sorts of medical procedures on their kids.
    What the F are they thinking??

  9. neo,

    Right, but it would be very understandable if she blamed them for not fighting against this, especially now.

    I also found it interesting that she is the youngest child in her family by a few years making her sort of a de facto only child (like I am 5 years younger than next sibling). I would be very curious to see if this entire syndrome is more likely in only children as opposed to larger more compact age wise families.

  10. JohnTyler,

    She is suing a bunch of doctors and Kaiser so hopefully they will be held to account in some way.

  11. I started watching this last night around midnight and wasn’t expecting to watch the whole thing, but I did. It is heartbreaking.

    As Peterson mentioned many times, much of what Chloe was experiencing is not that uncommon for girls going through puberty. It seems if only she had found a competent counselor who could have been more reassuring that her feelings were not that uncommon and that she would most likely grow out of them, she could have been saved from so much misery. Chloe doesn’t blame her parents but as the father of a now fully grown daughter, it is hard for me not to wonder what they were thinking when they agreed to this. If Chloe were my daughter, I could never forgive myself. What happened to her was indeed criminal.

    There is a point near the end when she is describing symptoms that she is now experiencing that are more common among women going through menopause where she finally breaks down and asks “How was I supposed to know?”
    Indeed. How was she supposed to know? She was just a kid. There was no way that she could fully comprehend the damage that was being done to her. The people that did know and could comprehend what they were doing to Chloe and thousands of girls like her must be made to pay. This madness has to stop.

  12. John Tyler; Gregory Harper:

    As I wrote in my comment at 3:58, her parents were told she would probably kill herself if they didn’t consent. That is typically told to parents by professionals in the field. It is very effective, and I think it’s understandable if parents consent under those circumstances. Remember also that this was quite a few years ago when it started for Chloe, and there wasn’t much information to counter the message.

    I think they are told something like this: “Would you rather have a dead daughter or a live son?”

  13. neo,

    I believe her whole medical transition started when she was 13 (I think going by memory) so that would be approx. 2017 and she said in one of the interviews I saw that her mastectomy happened during the Covid lockdown so not that long ago.

    I’ve never seen anything about her parents but she seems to imply that they were the super supportive ‘anything you want honey’ types which in my own observations is more prevalent with only children hence my earlier comment.

  14. Neo: I know that parents are often told that their child will likely kill themselves if not allowed to “transition”. It is perhaps understandable that parents who are uninformed or gullible believe this propaganda. But I simply cannot imagine myself ever agreeing to this.

    One of my daughter’s best friends “transitioned” about ten years ago. Even back then there was plenty of information available about the potential dangers of hormone therapy on children and the high suicide rates of those suffering from gender dysphoria even after transitioning. In listening to Chloe it seemed that she desperately needed someone in her life to reassure her that there was a light at the end of the tunnel of her discomfort with her body. Like I said, if I were her father I could never forgive myself for not being that someone who helped her when she needed it most.

  15. Griffin:

    She discusses her parents in the video. That sentence I quoted about a dead daughter or live son is from the video.

  16. Gregory Harper:

    I think you perhaps don’t have such a great imagination if you say you can’t imagine ever agreeing under the circumstances. For many and perhaps most parents, the fear of a child committing suicide is a very potent factor in getting them to agree. It is not an abstract thing, either. Most of these kids have been troubled for quite some time, and many and probably most of them are actively threatening suicide. The children find out from social media that threatening suicide works in getting what they want in terms of meds and surgery, so although some are sincere in their threats, some are manipulative. And I have followed this topic closely for many years and I assure you that not only was this not well-known back then, but it’s still not all that widely known even today.

  17. Neo: Like you I have been following this issue closely for many years. I know quite a few children who experienced gender dysphoria and as you note, most of these children have had psychological and emotional problems for some time. I also know the fear parents may have of losing their child through suicide. Sadly I have also known parents who have had a child commit suicide so I am aware that this is a great fear of parents who have a child experiencing severe emotional problems.

    Like I said my daughter was very close to someone who transitioned 10 years ago and my daughter and I have had many discussions about this issue. The association of high suicide rates with gender dysphoria was known back then. I can understand why some parents may have agreed to transitioning their child under pressure. My imagination is actually quite good but I would still not agree to these procedures being done to my daughter.

  18. I also found it interesting that she is the youngest child in her family by a few years making her sort of a de facto only child

    Takes more than a few years distance for that to be the case.

  19. Gregory Harper:

    I understand what you’re saying, but I’ll just add that none of us can absolutely predict what we would do if we were (heaven forbid) in that position. The pressures and stress and potential for guilt are absolutely immense. You wrote, “if I were her father I could never forgive myself for not being that someone who helped her when she needed it most.” The problem for these parents is a lady or tiger one. Which is the path that will help when the child needs it the most? We think we know it’s to not give permission for medical transition, but how will a parent forgive him or herself if the child commits suicide after being denied medical intervention by the parents, against the medical advice of the “experts”?

  20. As I wrote in my comment at 3:58, her parents were told she would probably kill herself if they didn’t consent.

    That’s why the mental health tradesmen need to be jailed.

  21. I don’t want to implicate this young woman’s parents explicitly, but I wonder why more parents don’t consider extreme measures when faced with extreme circumstances.

    I know of couples who have had a child, always a son in these cases, going down a very dangerous path involving drugs and addiction. In each case the parents ended up spending large sums of money on treatment programs; 1/2 or more of their annual income. One couple paid for a program where their son was abducted from their own home and taken to a remote area thousands of miles from their home where he lived through a sort-of “scared straight” bootcamp.

    I don’t hear about families doing these things when their children, usually daughters, start down the gender dysphoria path. Take a few months off work and do an outward bound program with your daughter. Volunteer together at a hospital in a youth cancer ward. Take up swing dancing, square dancing. Embark on a household challenge to not use social media and read two books a week. Discuss the books together. Move to another community, a small town with shoddy Internet.

    If someone said you’ve got two options; you quit your job and move to a small town and live on 1/3 your current income for 5 years, or your child gets leukemia, suffers painful treatments and dies in 5 years; would you move? If someone said you’ve got two options; you drain your retirement fund and end up working another decade before you retire or your child becomes addicted to heroin and dies in 5 years, would you drain your retirement fund? If you see the world stealing your daughter’s innocence and luring her down a path of despair, painful surgeries, hopelessness and destruction, would you abandon your current life to save her?

    For personal reasons I don’t want to get into specifics, but I’ve raised kids and faced some of this stuff. They are all adults now, so far so good. When I look back on the difficult times my wife and I always fought for them. That doesn’t mean giving them what they thought they wanted, or letting them do what they thought they wanted to do. We fought to protect the future adults we knew they could develop into. In our case that worked.

    I think young people want to know someone has their back. They are capable of doing extremely difficult things and going against their peer group if they know someone will fight with them.

  22. Art Deco,

    I believe it was part of the ACA, it appeared around the same time:

    When you bring your minor child to a hospital, Dr.’s office, even a doc in the box at CVS or Walgreens; they will isolate your child and ask him or her about their mental state; do they engage in self-harm, suicidal ideations, etc… I have seen children forcibly taken from their parents based on how their children responded to those questions and how a caretaker or counselor chose to react to the words children utter in those situations. Once a child is removed from his or her parents and in the “system” it is a very delicate dance. The system will put them on whatever drugs they choose, which may affect the child’s behavior, exacerbating caretakers’ concerns. If a parent is too demanding or forceful the child’s caretakers may decide the parents are part of the problem and demand counseling, etc.

    This is also fairly common with college-aged youth. And, at that point, because they are 18 or older, the parents’ dance must be even more delicate.

  23. Art Deco,

    A quick Google turned up this article, https://fortune.com/well/2022/07/12/mental-health-crisis-college-schools-unprepared/

    Three in five (60%) college students reported being diagnosed with a mental health condition by a professional…

    If someone doesn’t have younger children it’s difficult to comprehend the huge shift in mental health awareness, diagnosis and medication in the past two decades. Teachers must report irregularities they see in the classroom (or perceive that they see), schools are legally required to track and log conversations, recommendations… It’s ubiquitous. I imagine my children would score much higher than I would on an exam about DSM diagnoses, symptoms, treatments… Which medications are used for what disorders, medications side effects. If your kid isn’t in counseling and/or on medication his or her friends are, and it’s discussed ad infinitum.

    Mix a system hyper focused on mental health with developing teens interacting in awkward, social situations (also known as High School and College) and it’s a recipe for all kinds of psychoses, real and imagined.

  24. I’ve watched only the first half of the video so far– but one question has already occurred to me. Peterson is a Canadian– does he ever get into the power given to the Canadian legal system to prosecute parents who don’t go along with a child’s transitioning? There was a case in British Columbia in 2021 in which a father was thrown in jail for continuing to refer to his transitioned daughter by her biological sex. Details of the case here:

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/jailed-canadian-father-spoke-against-child-gender-reassignment-prisoner-of-conscience

    I’d also be interested in Peterson’s take on the latest episode of trans mobbing of a gay speaker at McGill: “A student mob made up of trans activists and supporters at McGill University in Montreal, Canada, recently shut down a talk by a gay professor. Robert Wintemute, who teaches human rights law at King’s College London, was at McGill to talk about separating the T (transgender) from LGB (lesbian, gay, bisexual) and to discuss women’s rights in relation to the trans movement.”

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/01/student-mob-at-canadas-mcgill-u-shuts-down-gay-professors-talk-about-taking-the-t-out-of-lgbt/

    As bad as the trans activists are on this side of the border, I suspect things are even worse in Canada.

  25. PA Cat,

    I assure you, Dr. Peterson is very, very familiar with the trans lobby in Canada. Fighting them and the changes they work to implement into the legal system is what made Dr. Peterson a public figure.

  26. What ever happened to the things we and our children did to traverse through the difficult years of childhood? Extra-curricular activities – sports, boy/girl scouts, church groups, hobbies, jobs?

    I remember being too busy for much brooding about my mental state. The same for our children. They were always engaged in other activities outside of school. Boy/girl scouts were really big in their lives. Football, skiing, and track were our son’s sports. Our daughter took up hunter jumper riding – a sport she pursues to this day. Both had summer jobs and worked part time during the school year while in college.

    My wife and I were both involved in their activities. The young people who were also in those activities had highly involved parents like us. We are still in touch with some of them today. It was the 60s and 70s. A different time, especially without social media. If I were a parent today, I would insist on limited social media and if it seemed necessary, we would home school our children. Parents are not helpless. They can be active in their children’s lives and help direct their development. But they have to be willing to do it.

  27. RTF–

    I do know that Peterson has taken on the trans lobby in Canada in his other lectures and podcasts. My question has to do with whether he mentions it in the second half of this video. I haven’t been able to watch the second half yet. Chloe is lucky she’s an American even if she is presently living in California.

  28. Triggernometry discussed this interview as well. Their guest didn’t mince words, she flat at noted these people are sterilizing gays. I don’t disagree, but I think she is only half right. These are Malthusians and they are going after the easiest children to sterilize first, but they’ll be happy to sterilize straight children too. I’d say they’re like Nazi’s, but people tend to forget that the Nazi’s were preceded by “progressives” in the 1910’s and 20’s that supported this stuff too.

  29. JJ:

    It was much easier for parents to foster an active, relatively wholesome environment back then because for the most part the culture supported it. Now, especially in certain areas of the country, trying to do that involves swimming against a powerful tide.

  30. Art Deco,

    I believe Fortune is accurate. I don’t know that those students all, actually have legitimate maladies, but I believe they have been diagnosed with them, and many have been prescribed medications to address them.

    I’m not using hyperbole when I relate how much mental health is discussed among teens and twenty year-olds. If you’re not relishing presenting your essay in front of class in English 101 you now have social anxiety. If you don’t like waking up to the alarm and getting ready for school you suffer from depression. If you don’t do all your assignments on time, or work hard to get good grades you have ADHD.

    Look up “teens” and “multiple personality disorder” or “dissociative identity disorder.” You’ll find pages and pages of discussions. It’s the newest fad among teen girls and tens of thousands talk about it on the Internet.

    To be clear, I don’t think anything has physically or biologically changed in the past 3 decades, but teens are now swimming in a culture of mental health interrogation and diagnosis.

  31. Prageru has a shorter interview with Chloe Cole. It is pretty well done and you can see how the Kaiser Permanente doctors abused their position to push this young woman into hormone therapy and disfiguring surgery.

    https://www.prageru.com/video/child-regrets-transitioning-soon-after-mastectomy-and-hormones

    She is suing the Kaiser organization with the help of the Harmeet Dhillon law firm. You can contribute to pay for the legal expenses at

    https://libertycenter.org/

  32. There are so many aspects of this, piecemeal taken to support particular points of view. The utter failure of the medical community to retain the original standards of care; the failure of the parents to constructively engage both their own daughter and the medical community; and those that would use a tragedy to promote an agenda.

    Standards of care used to require: a year of therapy before hormones, a year of therapy and a year of hormones and a year in the gender transitioning to BEFORE surgery.

    A therapist that presents the ‘this choice or death’ to parents has failed in their job. Has failed their patient. And the medical community that abdicated it’s responsibilities OUGHT to pay a significant penalty for doing so.

    NONE of which means that others should not transition, others should not go on medical and social transitioning. I don’t trust the therapists at this point that seem to need to affirm the claims of teens. Especially girls. And while we all argue that minors should not be held to the same standard as adults, we are not so quick to apply that to kids that are criminal. Chloe sought, consistently demanded, and didn’t bother with consequences, her desires in the face of questions. Choices have consequences. Her parents, the medical community and Chloe need to understand, and accept it. Her experience is NOT the end of the discussion on gender care.

  33. Tracy C. Coyle:

    Well do I remember those earlier, stricter standards. For a long time it seems they were not questioned. Nor were children ever treated medically for this, even if they identified as trans quite early.

    It seemed to change overnight, but it wasn’t really overnight.

    I think the vast majority of people – even on the right – say adults can do what they want, but children need protection and should never be medically transitioned. I have been stunned at the way things have gone in recent years regarding the medical treatment of children. The therapists (and doctors, for that matter) are doing something I consider criminal, and yet they were practically considered criminals if they didn’t do it.

    I’ve spoken to a lot of retired older therapists who are politically liberal and always vote Democrat, who are shocked by these developments as well.

  34. Barry Meislin asks…
    “How did the cream of Western society become so depraved? So perverted?”

    G.K. Chesterton has an answer…
    “When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”

    Barry…we always have a “god.” We always offer our lives to something as the highest good & give that our deepest devotion. Corruption in metaphysics always yields corruption in the realm of our lived experience.

  35. Neo: “Now, especially in certain areas of the country, trying to do that involves swimming against a powerful tide.”

    I don’t doubt that. But raising our children is the most important job we will ever have. It’s sad that some people will defer that to “experts” or let peer pressure push them around.

    Like television, social media had some great possibilities for communications and learning but has become a channel for propaganda and transforming our society. It’s disgusting.

  36. @ neo > “I’ve spoken to a lot of retired older therapists who are politically liberal and always vote Democrat, who are shocked by these developments as well.”

    Maybe you can gently suggest that they stop voting for Democrats, at least temporarily.
    They don’t have to vote for the Republicans instead, but that would help.

  37. “Like television, social media had some great possibilities for communications and learning but has become a channel for propaganda and transforming our society. It’s disgusting.”

    Indeed; but WRT social media I’d go further than “a channel for propaganda and transforming our society.”
    It’s a terribly addictive medium that promotes hysteria, anger, vituperation and fear.
    And ultimately violence. Starting with language and ending with physical variety—much of it due to the dishonest spreading of Virtue Signaling, e.g., “I’m virtuous; you’re nothing but scum…or—even better—RACIST scum.”
    The instantaneity of the medium means that rumor—often untrue—spread like wildfire. Once out there, it is almost impossible to walk back, at least in the short run. The genii is out of the bottle. The toothpaste is out of the tube. Try getting the back in.
    And the media, fearing that their main competition is this immediacy, this instantaneity, this excitement, thrill, this constant adrenaline-generating rollercoaster of information, faddishness, rumors and lies, has itself persuaded itself that it must do the same, act—publicize, “report”—in identical fashion.
    That it must adapt or die.
    So that it is almost always “Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail” type of reportage—a kind of “We are all Gonzo Journalists now…”
    With all this rampant hysteria becoming the current zeitgeist, can there be any wonder that decision-making has become so degraded.
    In the future, social media—unless it can somehow be controlled, tamed, limited or rolled back entirely (but how?)—may well be considered THE tipping point…causing the rapid proliferation of social and political degeneration.
    On a global level.
    Social media, IOW, has a lot to answer for.

    File under: Hysteria uber alles

  38. Related:
    Historian Paul Johnson has died…
    “THOUGHT FOR THE DAY: PAUL JOHNSON (RIP), ON MODERN TIMES”—
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/01/thought-for-the-day-paul-johnson-rip-on-modern-times.php
    Key grafs:
    ‘…His greatest or certainly most successful book was “Modern Times: The World from the Twenties to the Eighties”, published in 1983. One of the later chapters in the book is called “America’s Suicide Attempt,” covering our mistakes of the 1960s and 1970s. It seems we’re attempting suicide again just now. His final chapter detected what he thought were signs of hope, such as the turning away from socialism….
    ‘…Alas, the ruling class was not fully discredited, and has its (unjustified) confidence back. Its activism and pretension are now much less muted than when Johnson wrote. Indeed, it is not a coincidence that dissident Chinese liberals look at the cultural revolution under way in America right now and remark how much it reminds them of the tyranny of Mao’s time.’

  39. @Gregory Harper on January 12, 2023 at 4:13 pm
    “It seems if only she had found a competent counselor…”

    Soon a competent counselor will not exist. They are coming after Dr. Peterson’s license for reasons of his competence and knowledge. They will not countenance a counselor that is not on board with this.

    Most of the older ones will retire without a fight. Many of those who don’t have the prestige and money of Dr. Peterson will be destroyed. New ones are being brainwashed that this is good and right.

  40. Might one hope that Jordan Peterson’s ordeal—and his courageous response—will instill some steel in the spines of enough of his colleagues (on both sides of the border) to enable significant pushback to the cowardly Stasi apparatchiks who have decided to take him down?

  41. Listening to this, I kept thinking back on all the crazy fads teen girls have gone through over the decades, and I don’t think any screamed from the rooftops much of what Jordan Peterson explained about the mental and hormonal changes girls go through, AND how they manifest, AND how it is “normal,” AND how it will eventually pass.

    The “fad” (for lack of a better word), the teen girls went through when I was a teen was attempted suicide. (Which unfortunately was sometimes successful.) One friend of mine spent most of her senior year of high school in a psychiatric hospital. And I am pretty sure no one EVER said ANY of that to her. It was all about “Why are you depressed?”

    I saw a shrink for some time back then, and again, SHE NEVER SAID ANY OF THAT STUFF that Jordan Peterson told Chloe Cole. Information like that would have REALLY helped get through the teen years a little better. (Though, to be fair, it is not like teens listen to adults.)

  42. Barry Meislin @3:21am,

    Unfortunately I have to agree with your take, regarding social media and the devolution of main stream media. Rage and anger appear to engage humans more than comfort and happiness. Once the algorithms were pointed at us they figured us out fairly quickly.

    Having raised children through the onset and development of a lot of this I will offer hope. Those who strive for value in their lives have figured social media out. They are now very savvy users. They saw it suck some of their friends in, and they see what those people have become, and they were periodically sucked in themselves and learned what that felt like.

    Eating potato chips feels good in the moment, but when you wake up after eating the whole bag you feel lethargic and sick.

  43. Standards of care used to require: a year of therapy before hormones, a year of therapy and a year of hormones and a year in the gender transitioning to BEFORE surgery.

    Real standards of care require that you not surgically butcher people and that you not shoot them full of hormones absent an actual illness.

  44. I don’t know that those students all, actually have legitimate maladies, but I believe they have been diagnosed with them, and many have been prescribed medications to address them.

    It apparently did not occur to you that their problems might be iatrogenic.

  45. Lee Also, the really sad thing is that Trudeau’s Canada is attempting to strip Jordan Peterson’s license to tell those things to people like Chloe Cole, because Peterson does say those things, and Peterson’s words make sense and are effective. Trudeau and his supporters will then tell us that we are the ones making things bad for the Chloe Cole’s of the world causing them to commit suicide. Trudeau is a truly evil person.

  46. This entire transition trend for young people reminds me of the daycare child molestation hysteria of the 1980s – 90s in which child psychologists were totally sure that some 4 year old had horrific things done to them, yet there was no hard evidence whatsoever that anything had occurred.
    Many people went to jail based upon the opinions of these “experts.”

    The “Recovered Memories” thing is also similar. It was all over the place and the psychology societies were teaching courses on “How to recover memories, when Gary Ramona won his lawsuit. The malpractice carriers canceled coverage for this “therapy” and the whole thing vanished almost in a day.

    The motivation seems to have been that psychology was not covered by insurance and this “therapy” became a cash cow. The same thing is liable to occur here and the only question is whether juries will see this or has the culture so eroded that they think such abuse is appropriate.

  47. The motivation seems to have been that psychology was not covered by insurance and this “therapy” became a cash cow.
    ==
    Very few people in the mental health trade should be making a living off of insurance re-imbursements. Psychiatrists who specialize in supervising schizophrenics, perhaps.

  48. Trudeau is a truly evil person.
    ==
    No doubt, but the Ontario College of Psychologists is not likely a cat’s paw of their idiot prime minister, but a manifestation of the professional-managerial class in Canada in our time. Our terrible crippling problem as a society is the culture of the fancy bourgeois. Most of them are Tom and Daisy.

  49. Art Deco @10:19am,

    Of course that occurred to me. Regardless of the source or legitimacy, they are walking around with actual diagnoses and, in many cases, taking medication for treatment.

  50. Leland:

    Actually, Cole is not Peterson’s patient or client and he’s not treating her in his capacity as a psychologist, so he could say what he wanted to her as a private citizen, which is what he’s already doing. Stripping his license makes it impossible for him to take on patients as a psychologist, which I think he’d already quit doing anyway.

    It is hate speech laws that might take away his or anyone else’s freedom to say what he or they want.

  51. Martin:

    What you have described is already pretty much the case in many places. The older ones have retired and the younger ones have either been trained to believe that accepting the trans patients’ definition of their trans identities is what they should do for therapeutic reasons, or they are acquiescing in accepting it without question because they believe it is what they must do to protect their own livelihood and to stay in the profession.

  52. It apparently did not occur to you that their problems might be iatrogenic.

    Something is going on. The number of girls transitioning has skyrocketed compared to the very low numbers previously.

  53. A close friend since the early 80s has a daughter who is very pretty and fit, and she married an obese lesbian as her “husband”. I suspect she will end up with regret. I don’t think my friend, who is very “liberal” and educated, and came from a very “liberal” educated family, had any tools to argue with his daughter for a better decision.

  54. Well, nobody has answered my question, “what is the physical basis of gender?” so I have decided that sex is real and gender is imaginary. People who tried to answer my question wanted to tell me about their feelings, but I’m not their mother and I don’t want to hear about their feelings. These doctors apparently mistake feelings for reality.

  55. A close friend since the early 80s has a daughter who is very pretty and fit, and she married an obese lesbian as her “husband”

    I’m fascinated. What were her previous dealings with men like?

  56. @ Art Deco: Not sure about jail time, but I think they need their licenses stripped. They shouldn’t be practicing.

  57. Long ago, in the 70’s, I was in a university cafeteria and sat down with a very pregnant woman (7th or 8th month). We talked for about half an hour; she was so happy to be having a child. At the end, when we were going our separate ways she said, “You’re about the first person, other than my husband, who’s reacted positively to my having a baby.” Ehrlich and zpg were big things in the 70’s. The video inserted above talks about the negative atmosphere so often surrounding having a baby, at least in elite circles. How unbelievably cruel. Ever since I’ve made it point to get pregnant women talking about having a child. Usually makes my day.

  58. In college I knew three women who decided their were lesbians. (This was forty years ago.) Sometime after they graduated, maybe just a few years after, they decided they weren’t, and seemed to be particularly ashamed of their college proclivities because at that point, they did not want ANY contact with ANY the people with whom they were friends in college. ANY. And they still don’t.

    Interesting….

  59. Sexual manipulation of minors simply because they seek it is is illegal and immoral. One must be a consenting ADULT to give proper informed consent to any medical intervention. If their parents consent, they are irresponsible and negligent and cowardly. In other words, not adequate parents.
    Bruce Jenner can turn himself into the opposite sex, but he is an adult, and we cannot keep adults from being foolish and delusional. Plus it is inconsistent with age-old medical ethics to amputate a penis just because a fool asks an MD to do so.
    Remember the Hippocratic oath, older than Christianity, which begins, “First I shall do no harm”.

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