Is it possible that Bob Dylan has never heard of Tom Lehrer?
I once read that people either love Bob Dylan or hate him (kind of like pecan pie, only different). If that really is a Bob Dylan rule, then I’m an exception to it because I kind of like him, or at least I like some of his stuff but not to an extraordinary degree. I also think he’s a pretty good lyricist, but not all that special and definitely not a prizeworthy poet.
Now that that’s out of the way, today I noticed this quote at Althouse. It’s from a book Dylan wrote entitled The Philosophy of Modern Song:
For the most part, people are not going to like war, starvation, death, prejudice and the destruction of the environment. Then there’s the trap of easy rhymes. Revolution/evolution/air pollution. Segregation/demonstration. John Lennon got away with it by using his cheeky sense of humor to create a postmodern campfire song all about bag-ism and shag-ism. But in less sure hands one might as well write about the periodic table of elements with built-in rhymes about calcium, chromium and lithium.”
I don’t have the book and I certainly don’t plan to read it, but is it possible Dylan is unfamiliar with the work of that great satiric lyricist, Tom Lehrer? His hands certainly weren’t “less sure” and he certainly had a “cheeky sense of humor” – I’d say significantly “cheekier” than John Lennon. Also, he wrote lyrics about the periodic table of elements, set to a well-known Gilbert and Sullivan tune. Here he is, proving he can still do it live in 1967:
I was raised on Lehrer, and still know pretty much his entire oeuvre. He often wrote his own tunes, but with Lehrer the lyrics were definitely the thing, and he rarely fell into the trap of “easy rhymes” unless he did it deliberately, which he did on occasion. I think the following is his most impressive rhyming sequence, but there are a lot of them from which to choose. This song is a sort of wicked riff on the theme of Herrick’s “To the Virgins, to Make Much of Time.” Here’s the extended rhyming passage I’m talking about:
In the comments at YouTube, someone writes of Lehrer, “He sometimes said after doing this one ‘I wrote that song when I was 21, and it doesn’t seem so funny anymore.'”
Althouse loves Bob Dylan as much as Neo loves the Bee Gees.
I suspect Bob Dylan knows who Tom Lehrer is, but maybe Dylan thinks of Lehrer as more as a deliberate novelty song creater rather than a “serious” song writer? Who knows?
I guess Lehrer wrote a song poking fun a folk protest songs called Folk Song Army.
I love Lehrer too! But since the holiday season is almost upon us, I have to mention my all time favorite, Hanukkah in Santa Monica.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LslsgH3-UFU
My favorite Leher, among many great candidates. It always reminds me of the final stanza of The White Knight’s song:
And now if e’er by chance I put
My fingers into glue,
Or madly squeeze a right-hand foot
Into a left-hand shoe,
Or if I drop upon my toe
A very heavy weight,
I weep, for it reminds me so
Of that old man I used to know –
Whose look was mild, whose speech was slow
Whose hair was whiter than the snow,
Whose face was very like a crow,
With eyes, like cinders, all aglow,
Who seemed distracted with his woe,
Who rocked his body to and fro,
And muttered mumblingly and low,
As if his mouth were full of dough,
Who snorted like a buffalo –
That summer evening long ago
A-sitting on a gate.
I don’t really know him either, and don’t like much of Dylan. And they don’t me either and if they did wouldn’t like much. So what.
Why am I reminded of Ray Jessel and “What She’s Got”?
https://bob-dylan.org.uk/archives/23939
I’m also ambivalent about Dylan, and never had a taste for Lehrer; I know sacrilege around this forum. The one Dylan song I really like because it’s so well done with the melody, lyrics, and chords is Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door. I love playing it. It’s has many openings for a bit of improvisation without going to far afield. Even Guns N Roses covered it.
physicsguy:
One reason that I like Tom Lehrer is that his songs were part of my childhood. My father and I both liked Tom Lehrer and Rocky and Bullwinkle. (One time we had a dinner guest from Fergus Falls MN. I had to bite my tongue to refrain from asking her if she were from Frostbite Falls. In retrospect, I doubt she would have been offended by that question.)
Were you exposed to Lehrer as a child? I suspect that one reason I wasn’t super-enthusiastic about Christmas, even as a child, was being exposed to to his Christmas song. The song still strikes true, over 6 decades after first hearing it.
I note that in discussing your lack of enthusiasm about Dylan you mention the musical aspects of one of his songs that you liked. If you focused on Dylan’s abilities as a musician, I can understand your lack of enthusiasm. I recall one time perusing a Dylan songbook at the piano. His composition abilities didn’t impress me.
nonapod:
When I first heard the song, I didn’t like it- probably because I might have considered myself a member of the Folk Song Army. In later years, I much liked the song, as it reminded me of my experiences, decades upon decades, of smug,sneering, self-righteous libs. I’d encounter a lib, and think the lib sounded straight out of the Folk Song Army.
From what I have read, Lehrer has remained a liberal Democrat, so he might not appreciate that one factor in my leaving the left was my reflecting upon the Folk Song Army.
I’ve always thought Dylan wildly overrated, which is not to say I dislike all of his work. Tangled Up in Blue (to my surprise those last three words showed up in predictive text) is a splendid song. Always liked Lehrer especially Poisoning Pigeons in the Park.
Tom Lehrer: there’s a limited number of times that a joke is funny
Bob Dylan: he was made by the beautiful voices of Joan Baez and Judy Collins singing his music. Blowing in the Wind became the number one anti-war anthem during Viet Nam and brought him into prominence. Otherwise, he’s just another singer/songwriter with a lousy voice.
Young folks today know Lehrer’s “The Elements” song from “Gilmore Girls,” where it was sung by a group of nerdy pre-teens on a science-club field trip. (Apparently kids still watch the show on Netflix, even though it was first broadcast when their parents were teenagers.)
I know it from “The Dr. Demento Show,” the once-great radio entryway into the world of novelty songs. (Dr. Demento himself is portrayed by Rainn Wilson in the new “Weird Al” movie, with just a touch too much wackiness.)
Till now, I was completely unaware of Tom Lehrer. He just never popped up on my radar screen. But his rapid fire delivery is memorable.
As for Dylan, I too share neo’s view; “I kind of like him, or at least I like some of his stuff but not to an extraordinary degree. I also think he’s a pretty good lyricist, but not all that special and definitely not a prizeworthy poet.”
One more note about novelty songs: You can no longer use Lehrer’s original version of “The Elements” as a way of memorizing all the elements, because a bunch more have been discovered since. But you can use Allan Sherman’s catchy “Holiday for States” (sung to the tune of the once-popular instrumental “Holiday for Strings”) as a way to memorize all 50 U.S. states. He released it in 1964, five years after Alaska and Hawaii gained statehood.
I was pretty surprised when I first heard “Lay Lady, Lay”. I also thought when I first saw “Pat Garret and Billy the Kid” that “Knocking on Heaven’s Door” was perfect.
Chases Eagles:
Lay Lady Lay is excellent. Another favorite of mine is Don’t Think Twice It’s Alright.
Eric Bogle’s tribute to Bob Dylan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Pph9BeMnE
Not in the same class with Tom Lehrer, but there is a song about the chemical elements at 24:44 on this album by the artist formerly known as Dr. Jane (now James) Robinson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Dz6v54Fco&t=1772s
As someone previously noted, I think Dylan wrote some good stuff, but I feel he would have been unremarkable had it not been for Baez, Collins and PP&M.
I’ve always liked Lehrer for the same reason that I like Gilbert & Sullivan.
You can no longer use Lehrer’s original version of “The Elements” as a way of memorizing all the elements, because a bunch more have been discovered since.
Updated version here by AsapSCIENCE, sung to Offenbach’s “Can Can” melody from Orpheus in the Underworld:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz4Dd1I_fX0&ab_channel=AsapSCIENCE
Dylan wrote a few nice songs but never learned how not to sing through his nose.
Neo: I also think he’s a pretty good lyricist, but not all that special
Wow.
Well, to each their own. But, there are some objective measures of artistic merit.
Popularity is one objective measure. While Dylan hasn’t been the most popular figure in the history of songwriting, he has remained popular for nearly 60 years. But popularity can wane.
Another objective measure is various awards. Dylan has won ten Grammys, a Golden Globe, and an Academy Award. He’s in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He has a Pulitzer. He even won the Nobel Prize for Literature, the first for a songwriter. But still, awards come and go.
However, the best objective measure of artistic merit is the influence an artist has on other artists. Influence lasts beyond the artist into future generations, with ripples continuing long after the artist is gone. By this measure, Dylan is a paramount figure in songwriting. His songs have been covered by an immense variety of artists: the Byrds, Jimi Hendrix, George Harrison, Stevie Wonder, Nina Simone, Johnny and June Carter Cash, Guns N’ Roses, Waylon Jennings, Sheryl Crow, Emmylou Harris, Bruce Springsteen, Bonnie Raitt, Tom Jones, even Adele. His influence pervades folk, country, rock, even hip-hop musical genres. Having changed music, his influence will be felt even if most people forget his name.
• A Hard Rain’s a-Gonna Fall
• Lay Lady Lay
• Like a Rolling Stone
• Mr. Tambourine Man
• Subterranean Homesick Blues
• It Ain’t Me Babe
• Don’t Think Twice It’s Alright
• Hurricane
• All Along the Watchtower
• Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door
I suspect Bob Dylan knows who Tom Lehrer is, but maybe Dylan thinks of Lehrer as more as a deliberate novelty song creater rather than a “serious” song writer?
I believe Nonapod has hit the nail on the head here.
Keep in mind that during Lehrer’s brief heyday, Dylan’s career took off like a moon rocket. Dylan was treated as a cosmic, world-changing prophet. His life must was a kaleidoscopic blur of songwriting, performances, parties, and interviews. He might have barely noticed Lehrer and forgotten him.
Also, while I certainly know Lehrer, I could have written that line, if I were trying to express the idea Dylan was getting at, and it would have been because I vaguely remembered the Lehrer song. One might take it as proof that Dylan did know Lehrer’s song, but his memory had faded sufficiently that he mistook the periodic table song as his idea.
The less pleasant possibility is that Dylan was being snarky (O yes, Dylan could be snarky) about Lehrer without naming names.
I think I have all of Tom Leher’s records. Fat lot of good it does me now, I don’t even have a record player anymore.
@ Ray and others who are pinin’ for the vinyl sounds —
https://tomlehrersongs.com/
You have until the end of December 2024 to download everything.
Consider influence. Anyone who studies the history of rock music or the development of guitar in music will look towards Jimi Hendrix as a seminal figure of the twentieth century. And among Hendrix’s many great works, historians will point to this as one of his greatest:
The Jimi Hendrix Experience – All Along The Watchtower