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Home » Open thread 6/10/22

Open thread 6/10/22

The New Neo Posted on by

This music was fun in 1961:

He was still having fun in 2018 at the age 79, and I hear he’s about to go on tour now at 82:

Some background:

Comments

Open thread 6/10/22 — 72 Comments

  1. My Music. Much better than what passes for music today. Always like Dion’s music. I understand he had some hard times but seems to have it together now.

  2. Yes, I was 16 when that song came out and we did have fun, teen dances after football games, riding up and down main street with the radio turned up too loud and things were pretty darn good in 1961, we had no idea how good they were because we took it all for granted. Thank you Neo for that nice song this morning and it is great to know Dion is still having fun making music.

  3. Fulfilling my predictable old curmudgeon role, I’ll opine that today’s popular music is, by and large, crap–with a special place in Hell reserved for Rap–when compared to, say, the music and relatively sophisticated lyrics of many decades ago, especially things like Cole Porter songs.

    Moreover, that contemporary classical music seems to be about as alive as the parrot in that old Monty Python Flying Circus routine.

  6. I went to the movie theater for the first time in about 2 years to see Top Gun Maverick on the big screen. I saw three previews and the long feature and I noted two odd points.

    One was that all the previews were fantasy stories and two of those were animated. Secondly, the songs featured throughout were all old songs with the exception of one modern song used in the obligatory touch football beefcake scene in the new Top Gun.

  7. Those who were hoping or expected inflation to be short lived, took a hit today. Today’s year/year CPI print was 8.6% instead of the forecast 8.3%. I think 8.3% was last month’s print as well, so we are still on the uptrend. The new expectation is for bigger and more Federal Reserve funds rate increases.

  8. 8.6%?
    It’s about twice that.
    They’re running out of perfume with which to powder that pig….which is pretty much the entire story of the “Biden” administration.

    (And no, THIS perfume shortage is NOT a supply chain issue….)

  9. Wow. That uptight audience in the 1961 clip was the personification of what all of us 15-year olds called “Square!”

  12. Ah, yes, time to break out the Terre de Nuit eau de cologne/parfum/toilette…

    A classic…if a bit strong for my delicate nose, but it does seem to be Power’s preference.
    (“Biden”‘s too—yep, the whole freak show’s).

    Well, no accounting for taste…

  16. “What would happen if the left got their other wish; having everyone become vegetarians?”

    We oughtn’t elide the most prominent concomitant of the leftist programme, the abolition of our fossil-fueled energy economy. Therefore — without diesel — we must further imagine the coming of solar-powered 550hp tractors to drag the cultivators, seed-drills and manure spreaders across the vast American farm acreage.

    From the magical Tempest:

    “O, brave new world that has such people in’t!”

  17. On an aside, my preferred Tempest marker: Beethoven, Piano Sonata no. 17 in D minor, III. (Allegretto) [1960 recording]

  21. sdferr –
    I think you went missing from here for a while. I’m glad you’re back. I’ve always enjoyed your music recommendations (going back to the PW days). They do lead me down too many rabbit holes, but I’m taking a vacation day today and have nothing but time.

  22. We really did dress up in the early 1960’s, coat and tie with handkerchief in the pocket going out on a date, the young ladies had their hair done ever so fine and then sprayed in place with wearing girdles or garter belts to keep their hose up pre panty hose. My freshman year at an all male college living in the freshman dorms Monday through Thursday we sat in 8 man groups with coat and tie for a served sit down dinner cause that’s the way it was.

  23. Happy to be of service, Steph.

    And since you happen to mention wabbit-holes, I discharge another favorite of mine fondly termed Attack of the Killer Rabbits, more formally known as: Brahms, Piano Trio no. 1 op. 8: Scherzo (Allegro Molto)

  24. I am REALLY sick of Pride Month now: From Not the Bee: “The Milwaukee Brewers hosted a drag show before Wednesday night’s game against the Phillies.”

    Details of the “performance” and photos of the drag queens at the link:
    https://notthebee.com/article/the-milwaukee-brewers-hosted-a-drag-show-before-wednesday-nights-game-against-the-phillies

    The Phillies won 10-0 on Wednesday and 8-3 on Thursday to sweep the Brewers.

    If the Brewers are so fond of Pride Month, I wonder how many of them are switch hitters; won’t ask about the pitchers and catchers.

  25. I came of age in the seventies but always liked that Dion song.

    Music is not so good now. But you can find the good stuff it just takes patience. I hate rap and hip hop. And pop music is way over produced and all sounds the same. I like Adele though but she carries a melody like Doris Day.

    My 21 yo son says, “yeah, your music is better than what we’ve got today.”

    But the funny thing is that I still like what my parents listened to. All those great singers from the 30s and 40s. My father even liked some of my stuff…Pink Floyd comes to mind.

  27. Kylee Zemple, The Federalist:

    . . . another school was attacked on Thursday, but it won’t make the headlines.

    That’s because this school — Walnut Park Elementary School in Gadsden, Alabama — didn’t have any victims except the would-be invader, who was shot dead by police after he tried and failed to bust into the building. Here’s how it all reportedly went down.

    A passerby saw a man “aggressively” trying to get into the school building. When the man was unsuccessful, he tried several other doors, all of which were locked. The responsible observer called to report the man, the school principal put the building on lockdown and called in a police officer who doubles as the school resource officer, and that officer called for backup. If the reports are correct, the chain of command worked smoothly thanks to decisive action and quickly followed protocols.

    https://thefederalist.com/2022/06/10/a-would-be-school-invader-in-alabama-failed-when-the-doors-were-locked-and-police-werent-cowards/

  28. Inflation accelerated 1% last month and is now the highest it has been in the U.S. since December of 1981.

    I remember my mother complaining a lot about inflation in 1981. Some of the causes of inflation then were similar. The price of gas is involved with almost every good and service Americans purchase and we were riding out an “energy crisis” partly caused by a Presidential administration’s anti-petroleum policies. In 1981 most adults* had lived through one or two world wars, a depression… The general attitude towards inflation in 1981, at least in my working class, blue collar, Chicago neighborhood, was hunker down. Buy less. Buy generic grocery bands. Don’t take a vacation. Go to junior college for two years.

    Inflation: Too many dollars chasing too few goods. The fix to too few dollars was a reduction in the chase of goods and services.

    But inflation accelerated last month?

    Will Americans react similarly 41 years later? I think the elderly will. Many immigrants will. But I think the bulk of Americans will continue to live “their best lives” using the easy credit that simply was not available to my parents four decades ago.

    *Adults with the wherewithal to spend. The Baby Boomers were all over 18 and into adulthood, but most were just starting to hit the major consumption phase of their lives; kids, homes, cars…

  31. about what a thursday repeat earns on those days, on the three channels,

  33. Many here would likely find Andrew Heaton’s most recent podcast* interesting, https://mightyheaton.com/the-political-orphanage/other-nations-are-insufficiently-horny

    He interviews demographer, Kenneth Gronbach. Here’s Andrew’s description of the show:

    “Demographic Winter” occurs when a nation’s population growth is so bottlenecked that its labor is unable to sustain the economy in basics like tax revenue, health care services–and food. Much of the developed world, with laggardly birthrates, is poised to tumble off that demographic cliff.

    Ken Gronbach is an internationally lauded demographer. Analyzing population macrotrends, he forecasts calamities, upswings, and political and economic changes in the near future.

    He joins to discuss the “Demographic Winter” poised to afflict much of the world, plus what the United States can anticipate over the next two decades as Baby Boomers retire and a fresh generation steps up.

    As Elon Musk recently tweeted, I find this one of the, if not THE most important concerns regarding the future of humanity. Mark Steyn’s excellent 2006 book, “America Alone” did a good job of explaining worldwide demographic trends and their likely results, yet, over 15 years later many in leadership act as if it is not happening. Not only that, they continue to act as if the opposite is happening.

    *You’d likely find many of Andrew Heaton’s podcasts interesting.

  34. @Barry Meislin
    (from yesterday) “We as a civilization have achieved extraordinary technological and scientific breakthroughs…but have lost our sense of humor.
    “Without it we are doomed.
    “Your Prime Directive is to get it back….”

    Funny!

  35. sdferr:

    And that also would almost certainly have been the course of events at Robb Elementary had all the doors been locked.

  36. another fictional example from a favorite show stargate, the team come in contact with an advance civilization, the yashen, who offer all sorts of marvelous technology, including life extention, but about 10 years into this exercise, they discover an unsettling side effect, sterilization of large parts of the populace, in a previous episode, they had encountered another civilization, that had a drastic reduction in population, over a period of centuries, they use the old time travel gambit to restore the timeline,

  37. Snow On Pine:
    Thanks for your replies from yesterday.
    As for UFOs, I’m with Lou Elizondo—they may be Alien, they may be time travelers from our distant past or future, they may be from another dimension, they may be something that has always been here on Earth…

    So, although you don’t use the words, UFOs could correspond or be related to God, angels, the devil or demons?

    I have two further questions:

    1. Would you rank UFOs as one of the top 3 issues our country should be dealing with?

    2. What actions (if any) should the government and private citizens take to respond to UFOs?

    Thank you.

  38. Everyone notice how really, really horrible the White House and Democrats in general have been on the intimidation of justices and the attempted murder of one? How really awful Little Red Lying Hood was on the issue before she left?

    Schumer and others have been nasty, ugly and vicious. The protests and intimidation at the houses are criminal. Yet the Prez and Democrats can’t even do the pro forma decent thing and pretend to denounce them.

    Know why?

    Because Democrat voters love the nasty, ugly and vicious behavior. And their politicians know their base very well. The pols aren’t going to insult their base by denouncing the nastiness.

    Repeat — Democrat voters love it. It’s what they think. It’s who they are. Just “listen” to their leaders who are pandering to them. Tells you all you ever need to know about Democrat voters.

  41. Bruce Springsteen sees Dion as a musical link between Frank Sinatra and Rock & Roll.

    Dion is alive and still playing, his latest;

    “DION: Blues with Friends”
    Available on LP, CD and Streaming services
    https://shop.jbonamassa.com/products/dion-blues-with-friends-double-vinyl-setreleased-2020

    “DION: STOMPING GROUNDS”
    Available on LP, CD and Streaming services
    https://shop.jbonamassa.com/products/dion-stomping-ground-double-vinyl-setreleased-2021

    I have those albums on my Jazz/Blues playlist on Qobuz

  42. Snow on Pine,

    “I’ll opine that today’s popular music is, by and large, crap”

    Certainly that’s true of much that is popular today but there are exceptions. And we’ve always had to wade through a lot of crap to get to the noteworthy.

    “contemporary classical music seems to be about as alive as the parrot”

    A decade or more ago I read a audio gear reviewer mention that the only good new classical music being produced was for movies. As I’m not a fan of modern dissonant classical music, it seems like there’s some truth to that.

  43. Miguel cervantes,

    In music, melody always comes before lyrics.

    When done skillfully, lyrics without a compelling melody is poetry or prose.

    TommyJay,

    “I went to the movie theater for the first time in about 2 years … all the previews were fantasy stories and two of those were animated.”

    Given the left’s utter control of movie production… what else might we expect but “Bread and Circuses”?

    Barry Meislin,

    “They’re running out of perfume with which to powder that pig…”

    What with the supply shortages, it’s only because they can’t find a dark enough shade of lipstick…

    Old Texan,

    “We really did dress up in the early 1960’s”

    By the end of the 60s that had changed. I blame the Beatles 😉

  44. Snow on Pine, Geoffrey Britain,

    Aren’t many movie soundtracks a form of classical music? It seems to me that is the modern incarnation of the genre, and much of it is very good.

    Even aside from the obvious parallel with opera, a lot of classical compositions were written around a theme; Holst’s “Planets” is an obvious one, but Greek and Roman mythology were common themes, as well as Biblical stories.

    In modern times the public have switched their eyes and ears to film so that’s where many classical composers now work.

  45. Rufus T Firefly,

    “The price of gas is involved with almost every good and service Americans purchase and we were riding out an “energy crisis” partly caused by a Presidential administration’s anti-petroleum policies.”

    Correction: entirely “caused by a Presidential administration’s anti-petroleum policies”.

    The “Demographic Winter” is entirely in keeping with the WEF’s Davos Agenda.

    Wesson,

    “What actions (if any) should the government and private citizens take to respond to UFOs?”

    What actions are even possible?

    stan,

    Not all Democrat voters love the nasty, ugly and vicious behavior. The more radical the democrat voter, the more fully they embrace nasty, ugly and vicious means to the imagined end they desire. Filled with hate, it’s not enough that they win, those who oppose them must suffer…

    Regardless of how distressed the average democrat voter is at the consequential results of the policies they have supported, the majority of democrat voters simply cannot bring themselves to vote republican… for self-image as a “caring person” is all.

    It’s their substitute for having rejected religion’s promise of an afterlife earned through faith and/or good works.

  46. Geoffrey Britain,

    Not to be pedantic, but in music melody does not always come before lyrics. There is a wide range of how the great composer/lyricist teams work(ed). Sometimes the composer comes up with a melody and the lyricist fits words to it. Sometimes the lyricist writes the words and the composer finds a melody that fits. From memory of what I’ve read I think most teams had a pattern they typically stuck with, but sometimes they switched it up when one or the other had a particularly inspired idea.

    Cole Porter almost always (always?) did both parts. Irving Berlin usually did both. I’m trying to recall if they typically did one first more often. I know sometimes songwriters fixate on a word or phrase and work to find a melody that fits.

    Some songs the melody exceeds the lyric. Some songs the lyric exceeds the melody. I’d put, “Stayin’ Alive” in the first bucket and “The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald” in the second.

  48. I’ll add, when I think of the several songs I’ve written, it’s varied. Sometimes a melody flashes into my head, sometimes it’s a lyric. Typically I get about 2/3 of a whole melody or verse and have to sit down and puzzle out the remaining 1/3. It’s always been that way; an instantaneous flash where about 2/3 of a melody or lyric is instantly in my brain. Then I have to either work out the melody or the lyric and figure out a bridge and/or chorus.

  49. Wesson—God, Angels, Devils or Demons?

    As I’ve written here before if, as seems possible, these UFOs and attendant Aliens have been appearing to us humans during the entirety of our recorded history–and perhaps even longer than that—the humans of each era would have seen and interpreted this phenomenon through their own particular culture and ideas; their own particular consensus reality. *

    Thus, some might have interpreted them as Gods, some as Demons, some as Angels, some, perhaps as God himself.

    For myself, I interpret whatever the beings are who are directing or operating these UFOs as life forms (or we could, perhaps, be dealing with an AI) which are certainly more advanced in technology and perhaps also in evolution when compared to us humans, but who are not, God or Gods and–depending on their actions as measured against my human morality and value system–either good or bad entities.

    As for your other two questions– (Wait, haven’t I read a SF story in which Aliens, in total control of Earth’s communication systems, were quizzing us in the dark earthlings about their attitudes toward these Aliens and their actions?)

    1. Would you rank UFOs as one of the top 3 issues our country should be dealing with?

    I do realize that we here on Earth have an almost unlimited list of major problems to deal with. So many calls for our attention and action–coming from all sides.

    Moreover, that it is often very hard to decide which are legitimate issues; which are issues which need to be or even can be solved—which are legitimate issues needing urgent action–and which are illusory.

    Nonetheless, if—I say if—the presence of “unidentified” UFOs means that we are being visited and surveilled by Aliens, this single fact that “we are not alone” would, I’d think,“change everything” psychologically for the majority of us humans–and would generate profound shocks to and changes in our conception of who we are and our place in the Universe–generate impacts on every individual life, on every organization, on every religion and philosophy, and on every nation on this planet; on how we think, and do business.

    Given this, the answer to the phenomenon of UFOs is, indeed, worthy to be one of the top three, if not the top issue that our country should be paying ever closer attention to and dealing with.

    2. What actions (if any) should the government and private citizens take to respond to UFOs?

    Over the decades since WWII our culture and popular entertainment have done a very good job of “preparing the battle space of ideas,” and implanting images and ideas about UFOs and Aliens in virtually everyone’s mind.

    As for what the government should do, it should tell us citizens what it knows about UFOs. Not necessarily all at once, but in some controlled manner over, say, a couple of years so that the shock could be managed and dissipated.

    If this is what the government is attempting to do right now, they’re doing a hell of a poor job of it.

    As for what citizens should be doing, I don’t think that it is my place to be giving directions.

    But, if I had to make any suggestions, I’d think that, above all, people should be willing to push the boundaries of the often unconscious perceptual and cultural box they’re in, and to try to expand their ideas about what is possible.

    Then, given this expanded view of what is possible, they should be looking into this subject, doing some research and–although it is hard–trying, as best they can, to determine what is more likely to be fact and what is more likely to be fiction, who is trying to inform them and who is just trying to make a buck, who is a meticulous researcher, and who is way too credulous, and, finally, who is just plain old nuts–to sift the wheat from the chaff.

    Doing things like listening to what people with solid credentials and experience who have studied this issue–people like, for instance, Lou Elizondo and Chris Mellon—say, informing themselves about the history of this issue, familiarizing themselves with what is revealed in the formerly classified documents on this issue that have been released and, then, judging for themselves whether this is an issue worthy of their urgent attention.

    * See, for instance, this 15th century painting of the Virgin Mary at https://extraterrestrialblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ancient-ufo.jpg or this at https://churchpop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/1-1.jpg

    or this at https://www.grunge.com/img/gallery/this-is-what-angels-really-looked-like-in-the-bible/other-old-testament-angels-are-described-as-interlocking-wheels-and-covered-in-eyes-1608155625.jpg

    or this woodcut from 1561 of “The Battle over Nuremberg” at https://aliennews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Screen-Shot-2015-04-23-at-13.37.29-977×640.png

    or see https://www.truthcontrol.com/files/truthcontrol/styles/medium/public/images/Wandjina.jpg

    or this at https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/new-research-may-establish-australian-rock-art-oldest-world-005406?nopaging=1

  50. This insight by Christopher Rufo is brilliant:

    -The heart of wokeness is envy.
    -The domain of wokeness is inter-elite competition.
    -The incentives of wokeness lead the privileged to adopt victim identities.
    -The results of wokeness are personal neuroticism and institutional dysfunction.

    I used to think covetousness was the weakest of the Ten Commandments. As I age and grow I understand better how truly harmful it is.

    Rufo’s entire tweet can be found here: https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1535003243801108485?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1535003243801108485%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Face.mu.nu%2F

  51. Snow on Pine,

    I’m open to aliens, angels and demons, but haven’t neuroscientists proven that some manifestations of all three are part of normal, human brain function?

    Sleep paralysis and the “night hag,” for example.

    Since humans have had brains for all of recorded history one shouldn’t discount the possibility that at least some of those perceived apparitions are not rooted in actual entities; just as some are not today. And wouldn’t every culture attribute the mythology at hand to define such neurophysical events?

  54. Rufus T. Firefly:

    The Bee Gees usually started with a song title that gave them a theme, although they also often started with a fragment of melody. They tended to work fast, but the lyrics came last. I’ve read that Elton John’s writing partner would write the lyrics first and then deliver them to Elton John, who’d then write the music.

  56. neo,

    I’ve read the same about Bernie Taupin and Elton John. I think Rogers and Hart were typically lyrics first, but Rogers and Hammerstein were typically melody first.

    Of course there’s the famous tale of Paul McCartney and the melody to “Yesterday” infused with the dummy lyric, “Scrambled eggs” until he could come up with something more fitting.

    I think George usually wrote melodies and handed them to Ira to fit lyrics to. At least I hope so. How else to explain, “Oh I’d love to go out fishing, in a river or a creek…”

    I think I’ve read Porter came up with the tune to, “Night and Day” after hearing the haunting, Muslim call to prayer on a trip to the Middle East. Then he fit lyrics to the melody*. Yet, I have to believe his many “list” songs like, “Let’s Fall in Love” had to be lyrics first, then melody.

    My guess would also be Gilbert and Sullivan tended to be lyric first. Although some of the melodies are memorable, certainly exceedingly hummable, they are often simple, to accommodate a string of witty words set to rhyme.

    *One of the truly great combinations of melody and lyric. Both are exceptionally profound and brilliant.

  57. Aren’t many movie soundtracks a form of classical music? It seems to me that is the modern incarnation of the genre, and much of it is very good. — Rufus

    Yes, I wasn’t referring the score or soundtrack, rather actual songs with vocals and lyrics. All oldies but one. I’m generally not conscious of the film score on a first viewing unless the score is really great or terrible, or maybe if the film is very boring.

    I see you were speaking to Geoffrey and Snow on Pine. I’d say there is still decent film scoring being done.

  58. Indeed take many of the marvel films success are scores by alan silvestri (who goes to back to the future 37!! Years ago) and danny elfman a littlr later one john williams for lucas films hans zimmet for christopher nolan.

  60. Wait, haven’t I read a SF story in which Aliens, in total control of Earth’s communication systems, were quizzing us in the dark earthlings about their attitudes toward these Aliens and their actions?

    Busted! 🙂

  61. Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky’s “1812 Overture” was written to musically tell a similar story to John Williams’ “Theme from Star Wars.”

    It would be interesting to look at the symphonic scores side by side. I doubt one is less complex or “symphonic” than the other. They both serve their purposes well and are scores that have entertained for generations, and will almost certainly continue to be popular.

  63. Or when you think of the natural one of the few redford films i can tolerate you think of randy newmans? Rousing score

  66. Miguel cervantes,

    “The Natural” score did stir me when I saw the movie in theaters, many years ago. I thought it was very well done. I did not realize it was Randy Newman. Although I know Newman has scored many movies, I didn’t recognize his work there.

  68. “Rick Beato comparing Gustav Holsts’ “The Planets” with John Williams’ “Star Wars” score!”

    Where Beato mentioned R. Vaughn Williams’ Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis which showed up in the soundtrack of one of my favored films Master and Commander, the music of which in totality was very well handled; fit to service of the film, so to say. Anyhow, here’s the Tallis theme: Why Fum’th in Fight?

    https://youtu.be/lD5TG8z3-SM

  69. Miguel cervantes; Rufus T. Firefly:

    Not only did Randy Newman write the score for “The Natural,” but composing music for films is the family trade:

    The paternal side of his family includes grandparents Luba (née Koskoff) (July 21, 1883 – March 3, 1954) and Michael Newman (Nemorofsky) (1874–1948), and three uncles who were Hollywood film-score composers: Alfred Newman, Lionel Newman and Emil Newman. Newman’s cousins, Thomas, Maria, David and Joey, are also composers for motion pictures.

  71. neo,

    Regarding Newman, I had no idea it was the family trade but I recall him saying in an interview that he was pretty sure his folks wanted him to grow up to be a musician because they put a piano in his childhood bedroom!

  72. neo,

    Thanks for the eight year old post on “Swan Lake!” It was a kick to read the comments on that one. So, I guess I’ve been reading you for at least eight years.

    Tchaikovsky was brilliant! I literally, continuously have a song in my head through all waking hours (and I often find they are in my dreams when I’m awoken abruptly) and Tchaikovsky plays frequently. Aside from being brilliant his music is very hummable.

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