A few more things about the Texas school shooting
(1) Commenter “cb” has a good question: where did Ramos get the money for the guns? They wouldn’t be cheap.
(2) “cb” also wonders whether this story from 2018 might have involved Ramos. Strangely enough, it’s written by someone whose last name is also Ramos, but that’s a pretty common name, especially in areas with a high percentage of people of Hispanic origin. Here’s what happened back in April of 2018, when Ramos would have been 13 (depending on his exact date of birth, which was recently):
In the press release, Uvalde Chief of Police Daniel Rodriguez said that a Morales Junior High School student, 14, and a former Morales student, 13, had specifically targeted numerous students in what they described as a plan to perform a “mass casualty event against the school.”
Authorities said the students were motivated in large part by the Columbine shootings:
“The investigation revealed that the students were infatuated with the Columbine High School shootings and identified themselves to the shooters. The investigation uncovered that the students even referred to themselves using the Columbine shooter’s names.”
This seems like a somewhat different m.o., in that it targeted high school students rather than grade school students, and seems to have been more elaborately plotted. Also, although Ramos’ grandfather said his grandson hadn’t attended high school this past year, the high school he’d dropped out of is listed as Ulvade High School (Morales is the junior high school). The again, the 13-year-old who was arrested in 2018 was a “former Morales student.” If I had to guess, I’d say it’s probably not Ramos but might have been.
(3) I’ve also read that Ramos didn’t get help for his emotional problems. Quite obviously, he didn’t get effective help. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t get some help; I haven’t seen that issue addressed anywhere. In addition, if he was a psychopath, it is highly unlikely that any help would have helped.
(4) The photo most published of Ramos (you can find it towards the top of this article) looks like a mug shot to me, with that cold-eyed stare. Maybe it’s not, but if it is it might mean he has some sort of record – perhaps a juvenile one (they’ve said he has no adult record)?
(5) Ramos posted warnings on Facebook 30 minutes before the school attack. That’s too late to be a cry for help, except a veiled and ineffectual one. Maybe representing some mild ambivalence? Or perhaps just bragging about what he was about to do. Also, they were private one-on-one messages and therefore not public.
“I’m going to shoot my grandmother,” Salvador Ramos wrote about 30 minutes before his rampage at Robb Elementary School, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said Wednesday.
Ramos made good on his vow, writing minutes later that he’d “shot my grandmother.” His last message foretold of his final act of unspeakable violence: “I’m going to shoot an elementary school,” he wrote about 15 minutes before he arrived on campus.
As far as motive goes, this is what I’ve seen:
The messages mirror texts Ramos reportedly sent to a 15-year-old female acquaintance in Germany, who then shared them with CNN, in which he indicated he erupted because he was annoyed his grandmother took issue with his phone bill.
That’s very much in line with psychopaths, in that it’s the sort of thing most teens have to deal with and don’t react to by becoming homicidal. However, psychopaths can become homicidally enraged if crossed even in minor ways.
There’s a great deal more information in that article, much of it very chilling. One piece of information I’d been curious about is answered: apparently his grandmother is alive and in the hospital. Apparently he also was angry at not having graduated from high school with what I assume were his previous classmates.
(6) Ramos did purchase two AR-15s legally (shortly after his 18th birthday), but I’ve not found any definitive word on whether he used those weapons in the killings, although most people seem to assume it. The official word I’ve found, however, seems equivocal:
Two law enforcement sources told CBS News that the suspect had a handgun, an AR-15 assault weapon and high capacity magazines.
When I try to find a transcript of Governor Abbott’s address on this, I keep getting articles about O’Rourke’s appropriation of the moment to start shouting at him. O’Rourke is running against Abbot for governor, and this was his attempt to grandstand for political gain. I don’t know that his efforts really won over many Texans; I certainly hope not.
Here’s the video. I’m with the Uvalde mayor, who calls O’Rourke a “sick sonovabitch.”
ADDENDUM:
…[A] police officer employed by the school district “engaged with the gunman” — but the shooter was able to enter the school through a back door, then a classroom where he opened fire with an AR-15 rifle. It’s unclear whether the school officer and the gunman exchanged gunfire…
[Then the gunman barricaded himself into a class and started shooting children and teachers]…
Law enforcement officers arriving on the scene could hear gunshots inside the classroom, Olivarez said. Officers tried to enter the school, but the shooter fired on them, hitting some of the officers, Olivarez said. At that point, police officers “began breaking windows around the school” in an attempt to evacuate children, teachers and staff, he said.
Officers were eventually able to force their way into the classroom and kill the shooter, who wore a tactical vest, Olivarez said.
That didn’t work out the way O’Rourke thought it would- getting put down by the police chief that way is the only thing anyone is going to remember about this event. The lack of good judgment in this instance is completely disqualifying for the job of governor. It is the sort of thing a teenager would think of doing.
The two students in 2018 were at Morales Junior High School, so it could have been Ramos, who went on to Uvalde High School.
Re #2: Morales is the Jr High in Uvalde; Uvalde HS is the high school. Uvalde isn’t big enough for two high schools.
NY times says he was in the school for an hour before the USBP Tac unit killed him. There is also the claim that the killer was confronted by 3 ISD officers including the one on duty as the SRO and the cops ran to get own kids out of the school. Hope the claim is not true.
Kate; sharksauce:
It was confusing because the attack they were planning seems to have been on the high school for 2022, when they supposedly would be seniors. I’ll fix it.
Of course, it’s 2022, and Ramos would be a senior if in fact he had attended his high school this year and graduated with his classmates.
I don’t know of a better illustration of the narcissism that’s eating our society alive than the liberal verbal vomit after a mass shooting. And yeah, narcissism isn’t exclusive to the Left but I don’t think anything on the Right really holds a candle to the naked self-obsession you plainly see from the anti-gunners.
“I don’t like guns, therefore no one should.”
“I don’t want a gun, therefore no one should.”
“I don’t understand how gun ownership has shaped American culture, therefore it hasn’t.”
“I’m incapable of understanding how difficult it would be to remove guns from American society, therefore it would be extremely easy.”
“I don’t understand why so much gun violence happens in urban areas where no Republican has held political power for generations, therefore shut up.”
And the worst of it is that they’ve been pushing to get rid of guns and gun rights for decades and are now, arguably, farther away from their goal than when they started. But absolutely NONE of that is their fault. Their thinking, their approach, their strategies, and their tactics are all perfect and they just can’t understand why none of it is working.
Mike
Yancy-
Unfortunately I think it did. It is irrelevant what happened. He confronted the governor on a subject O’Rourke has been campaigning on for years. How it actually turned out is not how he or the press will spin it.
As for what gun or the circumstances surrounding this incident. That is basically also irrelevant. As the people already lined up in the “we have to do something” crowd. Do not much care about the particulars or even solving the issue.
They want power. And once again they want everyone to act before they have a chance to think about the subject.
This also for them is a situation they get the chance to press that distracts from the other issues they would like to go away. Intensely focusing on one tragic event simply eats up all the air time from all the other issues.
And for those who earnestly believe there is some form of gun control that will fix this issue. I bring your attention to this.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/man-norway-bow-arrow-attack-pleads-guilty-murder-84801212
and this
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/driver-fatal-wisconsin-christmas-parade-crash-pleads-not-guilty-77-cha-rcna16004
You can still kill a whole lot of people without a gun. Had either of them chosen an elementary school the toll likely would have been much higher.
MBunge-
At the heart of many liberal ideas is a form of utopian-ism. It is as you said a form of narcissism that they believe they (and only they) can bring this to pass. If only society would bend to their will.
A fair lot may actually believe this. But their leaders are none other than crass opportunists who recognize the naivety of their followers. And routinely play to this.
“the people already lined up in the “we have to do something” crowd. Do not much care about the particulars or even solving the issue.
They want power.” Mythx
The “we have to do something” crowd consists of the fools and the manipulators of the fools.
Those whose lust for power knows no natural limitation are as rabid dogs. The rabid dog knows but one fate.
Chases Eagles:
I don’t think that story is true. Here’s a report:
Orourke is a culturally appropriating pig
Quite obviously, he didn’t get effective help.
We might consider two possibilities: (1) “help” is hardly ever effective and (2) nothing missing in this youth’s life and the youths like him can be supplied by any fraction of the mental health trade.
I’m remembering the rabbi who said, “Jesus is the answer to a question I never asked”. A young man with the common and garden problems of young men might commonly say this about the purveyors of counseling and psychotherapy.
Art Deco:
Yes, murderous psychopaths usually aren’t interested in getting help.
But even if he wasn’t a conscienceless psychopath, if you think there was “nothing missing in this youth’s life” after reading about his extremely dysfunctional family as well as his personality, then I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you.
if you think there was “nothing missing in this youth’s life” after reading about his extremely dysfunctional family as well as his personality, then I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you.
I don’t think that and did not say that. What I suggested is that what was missing in his life was not something which could be supplied by counselors or psychotherapists.
Alex Berenson emails this evening about a reference in the NY Times, which I cannot read, by someone who knew Ramos who said he complained because his mother and grandmother wouldn’t let him smoke weed. If he was a cannabis user, sudden psychosis is possible.
Of course this is all conjecture until verified facts start to pile up, but the Assault Rifles that the killer had were expensive weapons (higher-premium versions), and the optical sights on one of them was also high end. I’ve also read that the killer was wearing body armor – this too, is expensive.
As a kid with a job at the local Wendy’s, and as a kid that apparently was ridiculed and bullied for ‘ being poor’, these facts do not add up without further details. This will only fuel speculation and conspiracy-theorizing that can only be put to bed with facts.
“Yes, murderous psychopaths usually aren’t interested in getting help.” Neo
What is worse is that a fair majority of them believe that the problem actually is with the rest of us. That generally goes for all sociopaths not just the murderous kind.
And this is the part that most well meaning people simply do not understand. To this subset of people(sociopaths). It is simply a matter of weighing act vs the consequences. If they are willing to pay them. Then there is no moral part of their being that would sway them away from this path.
Art Deco:
It’s certainly possible that he had problems that wouldn’t have been amenable to intervention. Impossible to say at this point and probably ever.
This provides names, short bios and photos of some of the victims. Most were 10 years old. Tough to get through. They are all so innocent. Such a tragedy.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-school-shooting-fourth-grade-teacher-killed-uvalde-elementary-rcna30426
This is what FoxNews is reporting about the shooter getting into the school.
The Texas Department of Public Safety confirmed a school police officer exchanged gunfire with the suspected shooter who unleashed fatal gunfire at Robb Elementary in Uvalde.
Texas DPS confirmed to Fox News that the school officer was injured by gunfire, which allowed suspect Salvador Ramos to run inside the school and barricade himself. Ramos dropped a bag of ammunition at the entrance of the school as a result of the shootout, according to DPS.
So the SRO may not have been exactly incapacitated, but the shooter got past him.
To Neo and Cicero,
I am sure there is a huge amount of surprise on the part of the SRO. And I agree with Cicero. It would be very tough to decide to shoot an 18 y/o kid in body armor in the head, at least until the shooter opens fire.
About the handgun vs. AR-15. An AR-15 was recovered in the school. That lousy cell phone video of the shooter entering the school looks to me like he is carrying a rifle, but the image is very poor.
So the other thing about engaging a SRO in a gunfight is that perhaps the rifle armed shooter can make effective shots at 75 or 100 yards whereas the SRO’s handgun is most effective at less than 40 yards.
Did people notice the image in the DailyMail article of the advertisement for Daniel Defense AR-15s? Financing available. As low as $92/month. Gads.
Neo,
Not trying to nitpick you — I hadn’t heard about that previous “mass casualty event” plan. Would be heartbroken (but not surprised) to find out he was part of that and nothing got done about it.
Also I’ve always found O’Rourke to be an unserious clown, but he finally found a way to enrage me.
As I commented in another thread, the criminal records of 15, 16, and 17 year olds should be public record and used in background checks. I heard a recording today of the Texas Governor saying that the shooter “ may have had a juvenile record…”
There is something wrong about that. There are very violent youths who have juvenile records but that suddenly goes away at 18 and they can pass a “ criminal background check” on their 18th birthday.
There’s this story going around that says an off-duty border patrol agent heard the gunshots, ran in, and shot Ramos, stopping the shooting. Sounds like that’s been debunked, but I wonder why the rumor started in the first place.
Liberals demonstrate the same abandonment of logic on gun control that animates their idiocy on Covid, BLM and cops, global warming, homeless policy, fossil fuels, and economics.
It isn’t just that their feelings ignore reality. They specifically and emphatically reject reality.
It’s about time they get called out for the childish tantrums. They need to be insulted, laughed at, and embarrassed. And if the media calls us mean, wear it as a badge of honor.
shadow,
I think that is correct more or less. Whether he ran in solo, or if there were other officers assisting or firing is perhaps in question. I heard that the border agent was being assisted. The agent was from an elite tactical unit.
In the Paris Bataclan massacre the first two officers in the theater were from an intermediate police unit that was highly trained in the use of their service pistols. They were successful in killing one terrorist before being withdrawn by their superior.
Neo,
I’ve also heard the story now that there was no gunfight at the entrance to the school, from an “expert” talking head. New or old news?
After this terrible tragedy, Beto looked more small in size and mind then before. At some point, people have to see that the ‘political’s’ (especially Beto, etc…..) do not care about you.
To the woke, it is time to wake up and get a new religion. You would not like your image of America if you had to live in it.
Run towards the fire… then stop?
Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas elementary school soon after shooting began … 40 minutes later…
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4066252/posts
O’Rouke’s behavior is disgusting – but, it still doesn’t surprise me that there are folks who vote for him because of it. He thinks he is bold or speaking truth when others are “evil” – but, imo he is quite revolting.
I decided to check on the Book of Faces to see what the general liberal take on this was.
It was about what I expected. Lots of over the top emoting and imploring everyone to DO SOMETHING NOW.
But I also saw a very very long list of purported school shootings. Many of which I had heard nothing about. So I looked up 5 at random. To see how honest of a list it actually was.
Exactly one was a school shooting I had not heard about. It involved an Amish school with 5 children killed. The others?
1) actually had two possibilities. Either it was a student shot away from the school. Or a middle aged man shot near the school. It did not specify which
2) Was a gun that discharged in an elementary school child’s backpack. No injuries and no intent. Also what I could find never mentioned a disposition.
3) A high school student discharged a firearm in a cafeteria. And was subsequently shot and injured by the SRO. He was charged with negligent discharge of firearm, and carrying a concealed weapon. I would infer from that that he never actually pointed the gun at anyone or intended harm.
4) A high school student who shot another student in the school with a PELLET gun.
Of this random grouping of 5 I infer from the charges that 1 only had a tangential connection to the school. 2 had no actual intent. One committed murder and the other had intent but did not actually have a firearm.
So as this list continues to make the rounds. Keep this in mind.
There may be engineering solutions:
1. Shot locator ( shotspotter–noise triangulator…AGDS) now used in many urban areas to locate where a loud pop noise occurs so that officers can go to the site to find guns and fireworks and explosions from meth labs, etc. These could be in schools and could:
a. reflexly lock doors to classroom.
b. reflexly lock doors of entire school.
c. ” call police.
d. ” turn on sirens
e. ” turn on fogger or smoke bombs or loud infrasound machine or loud ultrasound or intense lighting or darken classrooms.
f. ” unlock weapons lockboxes in vicinity of teachers or principals’ desks….like containing tasers or revolvers.
Some of these might work and they could evolve over time into the most cost-effective systems.
“ kill the shooter, who wore a tactical vest, Olivarez said.”
A tactical vest is not body armor.
Sounds like the kids and adults didn’t even try to fight back. The thing to do would have been to throw chairs and other objects at the killer. At least there would be a chance of stopping him.
TommyJay wrote “It would be very tough to decide to shoot an 18 y/o kid in body armor in the head, at least until the shooter opens fire.”
It would be a necessary decision, if the kid didn’t drop the gun. He’s not allowed a free shot.
mythx: I saw that list, too. Twice. I figured, like you, that it was probably misleading at minimum. Every discharge of a firearm in or near a school is not “a school shooting” in the sense that this one was. Good that you explored a few of them to confirm that.
“Commenter “cb” has a good question: where did Ramos get the money for the guns? They wouldn’t be cheap.”
He worked at Wendy’s for either a year, or for 3 months, regular full-time hours apparently (per the Daily Mail, Portrait of a killer).
If he didn’t have living expenses, and wasn’t a spend-thrift on games or other frippery, he could save the price of the weapons in either of those time frames.
I’m also interested in where he got the truck that he crashed.
Ah – reading the story Neo linked in her reply to Chases Eagles cleared up the truck question – and apparently he didn’t know how to drive.
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/25/texas-elementary-school-shooting-uvalde/
@ mythx & mac > I also remember seeing that list; I think someone went through the whole think and debunked it at the time. Most were NOT school shootings at all, of course.
John Hinderaker put the situation in perspective: horrible as they are, school shootings are not an epidemic — the horror of each one magnifies their effect.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/05/what-to-do-about-school-shootings.php
PJ Media put up a couple of posts worth reading.
https://pjmedia.com/columns/stephen-kruiser/2022/05/25/the-morning-briefing-politicians-cant-heal-whats-tragically-broken-in-america-n1600571
https://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2018/02/15/flashback-30-years-guns-schools-nothing-happened-n124076
On the Border Patrol team, and why police didn’t charge in sooner: Once the shooter got into the classroom and locked the door, police couldn’t get in because of concrete block construction and a steel door. The Bortac team got a key from the principal, unlocked the door and stormed in, three of them. The first carried a shield, which took fire, the second was wounded by shrapnel, and the third killed the shooter.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/border-patrol-agents-who-killed-texas-school-shooter-were-from-agencys-elite-team-11653508857
“A tactical vest is not body armor”
He wasn’t wearing body armor. He just looked like he might have been. If nothing else, his tacticool tactical vest probably helped him have more magazines readily available.
Guns are not the issue. We had school rifle clubs/teams all over the U.S. for a long time. By the 1980s, the clubs/teams dwindled and now there may be just a handful if that.
Something else happened, though. School shootings didn’t really become a thing till the 1990s.
This something else is not guns.
Laura Ingraham had a senior Texas DPS officer on her show last night.
Surprisingly, he was not willing to confirm much.
Two things he did confirm. First, the police got a couple or few minutes of a head start. A citizen saw the perp crash the car and saw him carrying a gun while walking towards the school. They phoned it in immediately. Secondly, the perp did enter the school at the rear through an unlocked door.
The rest was less clear. I believe DPS officer said that the SRO was in his car and heard about the gunman threat over his radio, and he sped to the school. Whether the SRO interacted with the shooter in any way was not confirmed.
This reminds a little of the ending of the movie LA Confidential. “A hero. In a situation like this, you’re going to need more than one.”
Apparently the shooter was a marijuana smoker.*
Several times in the past I’ve pointed to New Zealand’s longitudinal “Dunedin Multidisciplinary Health and Development Research Study,” which followed over one thousand people from birth to age 25 (this study now apparently extended to age 50)–carefully evaluating each one of them in face to face interviews and testing every few years–which found that those in the study who were heavy marijuana users in their teenage years not only suffered “neuropsychological decline”–including, on average, an irreversible 8 point decline in their I.Q scores, but also suffered a higher than normal percentage of a number of major psychiatric disorders.
See https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/cannabis-causes-psychosis-psychosis-6b3/comments?s=r
** See https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/01/the-dunedin-study-at-50-landmark-experiment-tracked-1000-people-from-birth
See also specific Dunedin studies on Marijuana use at https://dunedinstudy.otago.ac.nz/publications?category=1
Presumably there will be an autopsy on the shooter, including a drug panel.
Alex Berenson now reports that the NY Times has removed the reference to the shooter’s alleged pot smoking. It’s very clear that what this guy did is not “normal” in any way. If cannabis use sent him into psychosis, that should be made public. Perhaps the NYT doesn’t want to admit the possibility that cannabis has this effect on a few users, with late-teen males being particularly susceptible.
Questions are being raised about how much the police did.
https://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/2022/05/26/uvalde-where-the-hell-were-the-police-n1601000
Don’t worry be happy and high, recreational and medicinal weed for all. Thanks George (Soros)!
Some will say, weed has been good to me ….
And in WA to call it “marijuana” is racist!
Don’t worry, be happy, and high; recreational and medicinal weed for all. Thanks George (Soros)!
Some will say, weed has been good to me ….
And in WA to call it “marijuana” is racist!
Kate,
Regarding the effect of cannabis on teens with a serious mental health condition: I have witnessed this firsthand. A member of my extended family, now in her late 20s, developed mental illness in high school. She took up pot smoking and it appeared to greatly exacerbate her symptoms, including a propensity for violent behavior (fortunately it was fairly mild and no one got hurt, included her). She is doing well now (managing her condition via medication and other support). But the link to cannabis use seemed clear to many of us in the family. Eye-opening, to say the least.