Roundup, roundup!
(1) A January 6th defendant who elected to be tried by a judge rather than a jury has been found not guilty:
[Judge] McFadden said that the first charge of entering and remaining in a restricted building was a “close call,” but said there was reasonable doubt as to whether Martin knew he was entering a restricted building (though he said it was “more likely than not” that Martin knew he wasn’t supposed to go inside).
McFadden said it was “not unreasonable” for Martin to assume that outnumbered officers were allowing protesters to enter the Capitol. McFadden said that the government did not show evidence of Martin crossing police lines that had been broken down by the mob before Martin arrived.
Most of these January 6th cases are absurd, and would never be prosecuted if the supposed offenders hadn’t been on the right.
(2) There are many many videos such as this one purporting to document Russian atrocities in Ukraine. They include drone videos and much testimony by survivors. I find them very convincing for the most part, but of course a lot of people are commenting to the effect of “It’s all fake.” Or, “It’s the MSM so of course they’re lying!” or “We do the same!” as well as “Who cares?”
The documentation is widespread, however, and the eyewitnesses are especially meaningful. The time frame is that these things have come out almost immediately on the retreat from these areas by the Russians, and the drone footage is from when the Russians were in control. One thing I find possible is that Chechnyan troops rather than Russians may mostly be the ones responsible. Sure, the whole thing could be the most convincing and widespread hoax, complete with stinking dead bodies that the Ukrainians supposedly killed in order to make the deception have the smell of truth. Or it’s all Nazis Nazis Nazis, just like what the left says about the January 6th defendants.
One of these days soon I plan to write a post on the larger question of the split on the right concerning opinions about the Ukraine war. That post is a little bit more than I can bite off and chew at the moment, but I have thoughts on the subject.
(3) The Durham case inches forward:
On a Sunday night just weeks before the 2016 presidential election, top Democratic lawyer Michael Sussmann allegedly texted his old friend, the FBI’s then-general counsel James Baker, to say that he urgently needed to convey “sensitive” information to the Bureau — “not on behalf of a client or company,” but just because he was a good citizen who wanted to help the government.
The information, it turns out, was sculpted to portray Donald Trump, then the Republican nominee for president, as if he were in cahoots with the Kremlin…Sussmann was actually representing two clients: Rodney Joffe, an information technology expert, and the Democratic campaign of Trump’s opponent, Hillary Clinton.
The text [of the email], as Durham framed it in Monday’s court submission, is “the same lie” that Sussmann stands accused of, told “in writing” by Sussmann himself. As such, it is virtually the whole case in a small compass.
(4) Obama upstages Biden in a White House appearance. Not very hard to do.
(5) Seeing Lia Thomas’ naked male genitalia on view is something the women on Penn’s swim team just have to deal with, according to the school authorities
“In the fall of 2019, when Lia first came out, the girls were told she would have her own separate space somewhere,” the father said regarding Thomas sharing the locker room with female swimmers. “For some reason, that obviously changed. I’m not sure why it changed. Was it money? Was it legal threats?”
More:
Penn wouldn’t listen to any female swimmers’ complaints about having to be exposed to male genitalia, he said. Penn basically told them to shut up and deal with it.
“Regarding Lia in the locker room, Penn told any female swimmers who had issues to essentially ‘get over it,’” the father said. “They can’t ostracize Lia.”
I wonder whether U Penn – and/or Thomas – could be sued for sexual harassment.
Show trials.
Everything is indicating that the Russians lack discipline. Also Ukraine seems to be hitting them hard. At least some of the coverage indicated the Russians were shooting civilians because they were scared. I suspect that is a big part of it.
There is also the audio of Russian soldiers talking to family and friends back home, indicating things are going poorly, they lack discipline, they are looting, one audio indicated that some were chasing a girl of 13 and shooting at her legs–I assume so they could catch her and rape her. The discussion seemed to imply that.
The LGBTQ crowd can get away with things that straight men would not be allowed to do. Showing off male genitalia to women gets a straight man a “ sexual offender “ label, but it is “ OK” if it is a “ transgender”. Grooming children, that is bad , unless it is a member of the LGBTQ “community”, and then it is a blessed sacrament.
One problem with American higher education is that abusive officials cannot be sued personally. Take away their immunity. They’ll behave better.
And while we’re at it, can we apply anti-discrimination law (the real deal, not the pseudo-anti-discrimination law we’ve had for five decades) to the public sector and to monopolies, and leave the rest of the world free to contract? It’s just an avenue for arrogant lawyers to be second-guessing everyone’s discretionary decisions.
Many years ago, a college friend was taking a leak on the beach at night when he was arrested for “indecent exposure.” Eventually, the case was dismissed because he did not have an erection at the time. I wonder if that is still the law (It was California)? I wonder if Thomas has ever had an erection around those women in the locker room ?
1. Small victories in this increasingly authoritarian legal system are still welcome.
2. They probably are legitimate but could be fake. Give it a few months before coming to any hard and fast conclusions. As to ‘who cares?’, well we should care for the sake of humanity, of course. But I understand many on the right are fatigued by the stick figure, Manichean narrative: Putin…evil, evil, Hitler and Satan but worse; Ukraine…good, good, saintly, Zelensky is Jesus, etc. In no way does that excuse or justify war crimes, but I ask: if Xi invaded Taiwan and the Chinese military did the same thing to the Tainwanese would there be even a 1/10th the coverage and (faux) media outrage?
3. This is a ‘who cares?’ to me. Sometime around 2030, Hillary will get a scolding.
4. Nope, not at all hard to do. We are largely in Obama’s third term: all of the things he wished he could do, but couldn’t due to the insufficient wokeness of 2009-17. Now it’s happening, behind the facade of his demented, blathering Veep.
5. Another ‘who cares’ for me. It certainly matters to the extent that it shows the expansion of the cult of trans worship and its pernicious effects. But I’m more than a little weary of these girls and their parents complaining. If any of them really wanted to take a strong moral stance, they would withdraw from the university and forgo any scholarship they might be receiving. I don’t see that happening.
And that’s it for my cynical tirade of the day.
There are now multiple videos of Russians shooting civilians who were not an immediate threat. The first one I saw was a BMP that shot up a civilian car. In two of those we have later video of the bodies after the Russians were gone.
On the issue of corruption: all indicators seem to be that Russian corruption is greater than Ukrainian corruption. Even to the level of their military, where Ukraine acts much more like a Western nation with what appears to be a solid noncom foundation, while Russia is top down centralized system where noncoms simply act as bullies. Typically this difference is a big part of the advantage of Western militaries.
Also, on Nazis: there really are not any. Anywhere. Those who style themselves as such a roll playing, not the real deal. Those claiming to fight Nazis are typically authoritarian shitheads themselves. Usually closer to being real Nazis then those they accuse.
“One problem with American higher education is that abusive officials cannot be sued personally. Take away their immunity. They’ll behave better.”
Very true, Art Deco. Stripping them of immunity not only would drastically change their behavior, it would also discourse a lot of woke zealots from going into “university administration” in the first place.
My husband suggests that Penn swimmers could look into the transfer portal. But there’s still the NCAA, which allowed Thomas to swim in women’s events.
I wonder how they haven’t been sued, yet. As for ‘abusive officials’ having immunity, Jerry Sandusky would like a word.
What if one of the female swimmers just accidentally left her cellphone camera recording one of these locker room scenes for posterity – and the court case – to capture the full flavor of the experience.
I think the case is ripe for a civil trial, with a jury of parents of college-aged kids, and I think something like this, on the back of the Oberlin case, could go a long way to breaking the back of this institutionalized toxic culture that seems to pervade much of higher education now. The pocketbook and the penitentiary are the best places to seek remedy.
But I understand many on the right are fatigued by the stick figure, Manichean narrative: Putin…evil, evil, Hitler and Satan but worse; Ukraine…good, good, saintly, Zelensky is Jesus, etc. In no way does that excuse or justify war crimes, but I ask: if Xi invaded Taiwan and the Chinese military did the same thing to the Tainwanese would there be even a 1/10th the coverage and (faux) media outrage?
I understand why many (on the right and some on the left) are skeptical of media reports and the framing of Putin. I mean, we all lived through Russia!Russia!Russia!.
And I also understand those skeptical of the EU, etc. I was a big Brexit supporter, but I also think that in the context Ukraine is in, joining the EU and NATO is a sensible step, even if leaving EU was right for the UK. “Perfect” isn’t usually on the table, and then you choose “better”. For Ukraine, partnership with EU and NATO was better than being under Russian control.
To put it in another context, I wouldn’t want Pinochet as POTUS. I do think he was the right guy for Chile in the context of how he came to rule.
As far as China: at this point our establishment seems willing to ignore many Chinese outrages, including most likely creating covid, which their base seems to think is the worst disease of all time.
You’re the best, Neo
#2, I was a bit skeptical at first, but the evidence from many sources are accumulating so it looks like the Russian army is truly out of control.
#4–
In posts here yesterday I linked to a clip of Biden–after a speech he and Obama gave yesterday at the White House about the supposed “successes “ of Obamacare–when everyone clustered around and was focused on Obama still standing on the stage, with Biden left to just wander around, arms outstretched in frustration—notice that even a black Captain next to Biden—a military aide—seemingly ignored, and turned away from his Commander in Chief.
Even more revelatory was the other, later clip, when Obama and Harris had stepped down off the stage, and both were interacting with, glad-handing, and yucking it up with the Democrat attendees, and Biden was in the background, with no one really oriented towards him—even all of the various military aides were staring into the distance, stone faced, and not apparently at Biden.
Then, Biden was seen to try to get Obama’s attention–called out to him “Barack”–even put his hand on Obama’s shoulder and, still, Obama (and Harris) just simply ignored him, as did all the people around him who were all oriented to and focused on Obama.
I originally saw these clips without the soundtrack of the White House band playing in the background.
This background music added even more poignancy to this moment, which stuck me as a scene that a writer of Washington political thrillers might have written–the old and failing leader–maybe realizing what his fate was to be, maybe not—ignored, and about to be pushed into powerless exile. *
Biden wanted to be President and he finally got his wish, but as the President who has been the greatest failure, and the most unpopular President in modern times.
* See https://www.foxnews.com/politics/obama-tweets-save-face-embarrassing-biden-video-surfaces
The women should sue Thomas, for every cent he will ever make. I would like there to be a way for them to sue the NCAA, as well.
Snow, I saw that last night on Tucker and immediately posted here about it. I’ll repeat: I found watching it very sad. No matter what one thinks of Biden, that clip, to me, is an example of elder abuse by Obama, Jill, and the entire Democratic party. Truly disgusting people.
Only by tying myself into intellectual knots could I dispose of the accounts of Russian atrocities by assuming they’re all fake. Sure, I’m disgusted by the Russia hoax over here, but if you assume everything you see and hear has to be fake, you might as well be dead for all the information you’ll ever be able to absorb from now on. We have a duty of discernment.
At some point, some brothers or boyfriends of the female swimmers are going to surprise “Lia” Thomas with a behind the back of the gym blanket party, or worse. Something that will discourage him from waving his parts around in the women’s locker room.
Maybe they’ll get caught. Maybe I’ll be on the jury…
So is there going to be a tell all book from within the Biden White House and will it come out before 2024?
West TX Intermediate Crude on April 6, 2022 at 10:48 pm
I was wondering why something like that had not already occurred.
But I was also willing to add uncles to the “correcting” group.
Neo: “One thing I find possible is that Chechnyan troops rather than Russians may mostly be the ones responsible.”
That is a possibility that I have not seen mentioned anywhere else.
Very explanatory if it turns out to be true.
I would think “someone” knows where the Chechnyan “troops” are in the overall theater, based on tracking satellite images or whatever. I guess I also assumed the Chechnyans would be added to the Eastern theater, not the Northern one. And are they coming in as infantry or as tank operators?
But one news account (NBC interview of a victim?) suggested the war crime offenders were accusing civilians of being Nazis, and executing them on that “rationale”. Would Chechnyans care about such things, really? But criminals don’t really need a reason or excuse for their actions.
Come on, war crimes are being committed by both sides. Yes Russians are, and so are Ukrainians, especially of “Russian collaborators” and Russian speaking civilians in recaptured areas, and there is plenty of video proof of this.
What bothers me is the focus on just one side and not the “pox on both houses”. It’ pretty much like any US armed group in the last 50 years, where we ignore the atrocities that the US funds.
“A mind is a difficult thing to change”, maybe
Pallywood, maybe.
A video, maybe.
Eight years since the Obama/Biden/Maidan/[Slavic] catastrophic Spring series of world wars from Tripoli to Cairo to Damascus to Baghdad… Two years under the current regime in Kiev.
an example of elder abuse by Obama, Jill, and the entire Democratic party
A “burden”? Planned parent/hood in spirit, mind, and heart? They subscribe to the nominally “secular” Pro-Choice “ethical” religion, noteworthy for the wicked solution, diversity [dogma], transgender conversion therapy, Mengele mandates, etc.
whatever:
“Come on” yourself.
No, there is not anywhere near a comparable amount of video of Ukrainian war crimes. No doubt some exist – although the only one I’ve seen that might be real is the one where the Russian soldiers were shot in the legs, and that one is completely unauthenticated and unsourced. Someone posted it on social media. Whereas there are tons of videos of Russian war crimes with date and names and witnesses.
And you also wrote this:
“What bothers me is the focus on just one side and not the “\’pox on both houses’.” Why would that bother you? Do you think in any war the two sides are equal by definition? Why should we wish a pox (or plague, as in Shakespeare) on both houses? Do you think the sides in WWII were equal and it should have been a plague on both houses? In just about every war no side is perfect, but in plenty of wars one side is much much better than the other in the moral sense. Not recognizing that simple fact is nihilistic.
You also wrote: “It’ pretty much like any US armed group in the last 50 years, where we ignore the atrocities that the US funds.” No one ignores any such thing. In fact, the left hypes every single one. My Lai, which I remember well to this day, was a shock – but it didn’t mean that US forces were as bad as the North Vietnamese. Abu Ghraib in Iraq – do you really think that was ignored? If so, you don’t remember much, because it not only was not ignored, it was headline news for a long long time. And no one was even killed in that incident.
Lia Thomas is just a warmup:
“Opposing Sexual Abuse of Children is the New Hate;
“The Left wants pedophilia in the curriculum and on the Supreme Court.”—
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2022/04/opposing-sexual-abuse-children-new-hate-daniel-greenfield/
Opening grafs:
“After four days spent falsely accusing Justice Kavanaugh of sexual assault in high school, the Senate finally encountered a Supreme Court nominee with a horrifying sexual abuse record.
“And we weren’t allowed to talk about it.
“There is no way to know how many children had their lives ruined and their innocence stolen because Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson insisted on going easy on child pornography traffickers.
“When Republicans tried to bring up Jackson’s horrifying actions, the media shouted them down….”
One would hope that this whole, disgusting sage will be a game changer….
Said all over from beginning I have not even paid attention to any news reports from Ukraine, all media outlets are suspect for truth. But have watched dozens of videos, harder to fake but still not clear for most part who is who, certainly a lot of destruction and many killed
A few bloggers wonder if the signal has been shown Sundowner is toast.
And just a wee bit more from the already bulging “Smartest Man I Know” files…
“Whistleblower who handed Hunter’s abandoned laptop to congressmen and DailyMail.com reveals he has 450 gigabytes of DELETED material including 80,000 images and videos – and has fled to Switzerland fearing retaliation from White House”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10689445/Whistleblower-handed-Hunter-Bidens-laptop-congressmen-fled-Switzerland.html
H/T Blazingcatfur blog.
Key grafs:
“Whistleblower Jack Maxey gave DailyMail.com a copy of the hard drive from Hunter Biden’s abandoned laptop in the spring of 2021;
“DailyMail.com has published dozens of stories exposing Hunter’s drug use, sex obsession and questionable business dealings;
“For the past two weeks, Maxey has been in hiding in Zurich, Switzerland, working with IT experts to dig out more data from the ‘laptop from hell’;
“He says he intends to post them all online in a database in the coming weeks
“Maxey says he has found ‘450 gigabytes of erased material’ including 80,000 images and videos and more than 120,000 archived emails….”
– – – – – – –
Meanwhile, back in the basement:
“Joe Biden’s Released Tax Returns Don’t Explain Millions In Income. Where Did It Come From?
“The sources of President Joe Biden’s large income after he left his post as vice president have never been detailed in his tax returns.”—
https://thefederalist.com/2022/04/06/joe-bidens-released-tax-returns-dont-explain-millions-in-income-where-did-it-come-from/
I’m sure there’s an explanation: either the report is scurrilous and untrue…or the “President” simply forgot—a mistake anyone could have made—or has been taken out of context.
Or it’s Trump’s fault.
In any event, not much for anyone to worry about…
I find it very strange that Biden’s staff allowed those videos to happen. Why didn’t they make sure he had someone to shake hands with for the camera? This sure adds fuel to the rumors that they are getting ready to push him out.
As much as I dislike Biden — and I really, really, really dislike Biden — Obama’s behavior was inexcusable. When Biden put his hand on Obama’s shoulder, Obama ought to have put his arm around him or something. To just shake him off seems incredibly cruel. (Or… purposeful.)
Oops. “sage” should be “saga” (@4:02)…
Regarding “cruel”, Obama’s a predator—just doing what comes naturally.
(Yes, it’s all a facade…down to the creased pant leg. The real Obama is the one who underhandedly destroyed his first political opponent in Chicago, he’s the one who shafted Trump et al., the one who knee-capped Flynn, the one who sabotaged Bibi. And all this for starters. “Cruel”? We don’t know the half of it.)
BTW, seems that some Democrats have noticed (not sure how, though) that the s*** is hitting the fan; the result is a heart-felt (if BS) “mea culpa”:
“Republican SCOTUS nominees ‘should have been handled better,’ says Durbin, top Democrat on Judiciary”—
https://justthenews.com/government/congress/republican-scotus-nominees-should-have-been-handled-better-admits-dem-sen
(Boo hoo, boo hoo…sniff…shnork…Alas, what Durbin means is that “the next time we assassinate some disgusting Deplorable’s character, we should do it more humanely…with more brotherly feeling…more empathy…”)
And another little tidbit…(let’s put this one in the “Gosh Who Woulda’ Thunk It?” folder):
“BIDEN INC.: Biden’s sister to keep cashing in on brother’s career with new memoir, following family tradition”—
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-sister-cashing-in-career-memoir-family-tradition
Yep, the Foist Family, alright…
(Hey, but didn’t Trump’s niece “cash in” on her relationship to her Uncle Donald, too?…Oh, wait….)
And another Anne Applebaum special:
“Atlantic journalist makes excuses for dismissing Hunter Biden laptop story: Not ‘interesting’ enough to cover’;
“The journalist was asked about Biden’s laptop during a ‘disinformation and the erosion of democracy’ event”—
https://www.foxnews.com/media/atlantic-journalist-makes-excuses-dismissing-hunter-biden-laptop-story-not-interesting-enough-cover
They just don’t care anymore (and they don’t even care about letting everyone know)…alas, once upon a time she actually had something to say….
File under: How the mighty have fallen…(?)
On that Anne Applebaum story, Instapundit has “the goods”:
https://instapundit.com/513822/
to “Come on!”
Perhaps war crimes are committed “on both sides” – but, let’s not forget who created the opportunity for war crimes to happen.
If Putin had not invaded Ukraine, twice, then the Ukrainians would not have been given the opportunity, nor the inclination, to commit war crimes against their invaders/collaborators.
Perhaps I am wrong; but, I see it as a lesser evil when a defender overreacts to an invader than when an invader murders innocent people.
From the “We’re in the best of hands” files, here’s a curious one:
“COMPROMISING THE SECRET SERVICE”—
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/04/compromising-the-secret-service.php
Looks like “Biden”‘s Iranian allies are hard at it….
The Tailgunner Trolls will call me pro-Putin again, but it’s like a leftist calling me “racist” at this point. We still don’t have enough reliable facts to know what’s going on and we need to be careful about letting images sway us. This is what the media is best at: creating a narrative through images. Sometimes these narratives are true and this could be one of these times, but they don’t care about truth. I do. The truth is that we know Putin invaded Ukraine and that the fighting is still going on, and that civilians are getting killed. The rest is narrative at this point, narrative presented by highly interested parties highly skilled at propaganda.
0) Between the statements “the videos I see prove widespread war crimes committed by the Russians” and “the videos must be fake, those aren’t real dead people” is a huge middle ground. In that middle ground you could find “this is real footage of what you find in any war zone accompanied by lots of unsupported narrative about war crimes”. I hope we didn’t all forget about the 2000s, where videos like these were presented as evidence of American war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan. Back then, we all knew civilians died in war no matter how careful or well-intentioned the soldiers might be. You can still find these videos online if you bother to look–there’s no American media publicizing them at the moment so you may have to search.
1) If Russian war crimes are widespread or done as a result of policy, you will never establish that by watching videos online. Like I said before, lots of people made such videos about American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and presented them as evidence of American war crimes. I think almost all here agree that narrative is a lie, but the videos of areas attacked by American forces are real and the civilian corpses are not fake.
2) Of course there could very well be war crimes going on and maybe Putin is directly ordering them. But the evidence to establish that is not to be found in online videos of corpses in war zones. It’s going to be found much later, if ever. It’s going to involve documents and testimony from witnesses and participants, not just videos.
3) As for similar videos showing evidence of Ukrainian war crimes, it could be that no such footage exists because Ukrainians have killed no civilians illegitimately, ever, and are much more morally pure than Americans or Israelis in that sense. Or it could be that the videos exists but there is no Western media wanting you to see them. And wouldn’t such videos be denounced as Russian propaganda? There’s been a lot of fighting in Ukraine since 2014. In all that time, not one rogue Ukrainian soldier did anything wrong when we know that some rogue American soldiers certainly did? In reality it’s just that Western media didn’t really get interested in the Ukraine war until just now, and has already picked a side.
Sarah Rolph–Perhaps, this far into the Biden administration, some among his staff have also developed a contempt for Biden and, as a passive-aggressive form of sabotage, just left him twisting in the wind.
I notice the large number of key staffers who have been jumping ship from the good ship USS Harris.
I also wonder if some Biden staffers are starting to wonder if their future careers might be tainted/blighted by having been part of such a spectacular failure as is the glorious Biden Administration?”
It says so much about Obama that he even can make us feel sorry for Biden.
Fredrick writes another tome to dig a hole. Paid by the pixel.
The Tailgunner Trolls will call me pro-Putin again
If you were more persuasive and concise, they wouldn’t.
A large part of the reason no videos have emerged of Ukrainians abusing Russian civilians is that it is the Russian military which has invaded Ukraine.
Frederick:
There are no “tailgunner trolls” here calling you pro-Putin. I certainly have not seen anyone here who fits that description, anyway. By starting out your comment that way, you make it far less likely that anyone will credit the rest of what you have to say even if it is reasonable. So I suggest not starting off with an “I’m a victim” strawman insult.
What’s more, most people here have taken a “probably” point of view on the veracity of evidence of Russian war crimes and are well aware of “fog of war” caveats.
A large part of the reason no videos have emerged of Ukrainians abusing Russian civilians is that it is the Russian military which has invaded Ukraine.
Good point.
Neo should publish a review of the film About Schmidt, or ask Mike K to submit one.
@neo:There are no “tailgunner trolls” here calling you pro-Putin.
In this very thread one described my comment as “paid by the pixel”–you must not have seen it before you posted? I have not the time nor the energy to go through and post links to the ones who do and when they’ve done it over the last few weeks, they know who they are and they know who they do it to.
@kate: it is the Russian military which has invaded Ukraine.
Large parts of Ukraine are populated by Russians. Some of these Russians, I don’t have reliable information on what %-age, are pro-Putin. Some of these “Russians” are anti-Putin. Ukrainian military and paramilitary have been fighting “Russians”, some Russian military, some paramilitary, some Russians-from-Ukraine, since 2014. Yes, “Russian” civilians can be killed in Ukraine by the Ukrainian military and paramilitary. Because “Russians” live in Ukraine and have for a very long time, this is part of the trouble that’s going on.
An analogy for the US might be the word “Mexican”. There are Mexican civilians living in the US who are recent immigrants (of one kind or another) and Mexican civilians living in the US who are tenth-generation Americans. In a war with Mexico it would get pretty confusing pretty quickly.
@Art Deco:If you were more persuasive and concise, they wouldn’t.
Doesn’t matter how long or short the post is, I get the same nonsense, and I can’t persuade people who won’t engage in good faith.
But hey, I’ll give you a chance. You tell me what word limit is acceptable to you and I’ll stay under it, if you give what I write there a fair hearing. Deal?
Fredrick, when you start a comment with an insult and the write a very long comment after admitting that you have no unique information about the situation in Ukraine, don’t cry if you aren’t taken seriously.
But this is only my opinion.
Frederick:
I said I hadn’t seen any. I don’t read every word of every comment. But you have mentioned one, and you put it in plural as though there were many of them. Also, that person or those people are criticizing you but they are not “Tailgunner Trolls.” They’re not even trolls.
The Ukraine War disagreements on the right have been causing a lot of acrimony all over the right side of the blogosphere, including here. I try to police it and keep the acrimony down, but I have no interest in spending an inordinate amount of time doing so – which is what it would take. Nor do I want to ban long-time commenters. It’s up to you to do your part if you want it toned down.
Frederick, if we are to consider Russian-speaking residents of eastern Ukraine as “Russians,” we are conceding the point of the current invasion. Russia says Ukraine is Russia, and Ukrainians are not a nationality; they are Russian people, currently being deceived and misled by the “Nazis” who lead Ukraine. Large numbers of Ukrainians, who speak either language, and probably both, disagree with this assessment.
My point is that we have seen a few videos, some disputed, of captured Russian solders being mistreated. We are seeing many more videos, many backed up by personal testimony and satellite images, of abuses and murders committed by Russian troops. People can chose what to believe. I think the evidence is strong that Russian troops have been personally brutal in occupied territory.
@neo: I certainly don’t want you policing your commenters or banning anyone. What I CAN do, is just ignore trolling, insults, and deliberate distortions of things that I and other commenters have said. I do try to. It’s not always easy though, I’m only human.
Frederick; Kate:
Zelenskyy is a native Russian-speaker as his first language, and he was born in this city, which used to be pro-Russian until 2014 but no longer is.
Does that make him a Russian? I certainly don’t think so – nor does he.
Frederick:
I certainly realize it’s not easy. But please try. As should everyone else.
I don’t mind the occasional flare, especially if mild. We’re all human – except for the bots 🙂 .
@Kate:Frederick, if we are to consider Russian-speaking residents of eastern Ukraine as “Russians,
You can come up with some other word for this if you want to. It doesn’t change the facts that Ukraine is a multi-ethnic state and not everyone who lives in Ukraine prefers that the place they live be under the government of Ukraine; right or wrong, it is the situation. That Putin uses it for a pretext for an immoral war doesn’t change it. And if Ukranian military killed civilians in parts of Ukraine on purpose in the last 8 years, that has nothing to do with if those people are called “Russians” or not.
@neo:Does that make him a Russian? I certainly don’t think so – nor does he.
Nonetheless there are people living in Ukraine who consider themselves Russian in some ethnic sense. Some percentage of these are pro-Putin, but like I said, I have no reliable information on if it’s 1% or 99% or whatever in between.
There’s been a war going on inside Ukraine now since 2014, fought between Ukranians (ethnic or otherwise) and Russians (ethnic or otherwise), both forces multi-ethnic in a multi-ethnic area. Do we really believe that no one on the Ukrainian side killed any civilians in all that time? If so, this is a record that shames the US and Israel, because both of these “good guy” nations certainly have done so in the very recent past.
I haven’t seen the videos if they have. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t out there, and wouldn’t show much the same if our media had any interest in making them public.
Doesn’t matter how long or short the post is, I get the same nonsense, and I can’t persuade people who won’t engage in good faith.
Quit arguing with strawmen, and people might trust you.
There’s been a war going on inside Ukraine now since 2014, fought between Ukranians (ethnic or otherwise) and Russians (ethnic or otherwise),
Not really. It’s low grade exchanges. The combatants are the Ukrainian armed services and brigands recruited and supplied by Russia.
The Crimea was the only part of the country where soi-disant Russians had a majority and it wasn’t a large majority. Russians are somewhat shy of 40% of the population in the Donetsk and Lukhansk oblasts. There’s a considerable constituency in White Russia which favors merger with Russia (nearly half in 1995, about 1/4 twenty years later, per some surveys I’ve seen). In the Ukraine post-Maidan, that constituency amounts to about 4% of the population. Parties favoring a Russophile foreign policy are the mode in Donetsk and Lukhank, but that’s well short of advocating a merger.
@Art Deco: You tell me what word limit is acceptable to you and I’ll stay under it, if you give what I write there a fair hearing. Deal?
There are Mexican civilians living in the US who are recent immigrants (of one kind or another) and Mexican civilians living in the US who are tenth-generation Americans.
There are very few chicanos in the Southwest who can say that most of their pedigree was present there in the early 18th century. There were in 1850 about 50,000 people enumerated in New Mexico territory who’d been born there. The Spanish census of California missions in 1796-98 found about 7,200 people in them. Mexican peninsulares, criollos, and Mestizos in Texas in 1836 numbered about 3,000. The population in the rest of the territory north of the Rio Grande was aboriginal.
The war in Ukraine which has been going on since 2014 appears to be between a group of people in Donbas who seem to consider themselves be independent of the Ukrainian nation and who find succor with Vlad. Are they Russian or just non-Ukranian? Or just a subspecies of “Little Green Men?”
Regarding the claim that no Ukrainians have killed any civilians? Where did that come from? I know, I didn’t block quote you, so you may not be strawmanning.
Your response to Kate about
multi-ethnic combatants
and disgruntled people seems a bit sophistic, an opinion not a fact (IMO).
@Art Deco:It’s low grade exchanges. The combatants are the Ukrainian armed services and brigands recruited and supplied by Russia.
We can use your words if you want. But they don’t change what’s been happening.
The people on Russia’s side who live in Ukraine, call them what you want but I’ll use PORWLIU, have not all joined the “brigands” if that’s what you want to call them. Some of those PORWLIU are civilians, known to their neighbors as being on Russia’s side. If there’s war crimes committed by the Ukrainian side in the “low-grade exchanges” it would be against these people.
We’re not seeing these videos. Maybe they don’t exist because no Ukrainians have ever committed no war crimes or ever killed civilians, but if so that’s unprecedented in history for conflicts of this type. I can’t tell you if the videos we are seeing now are objectively worse than what could have been made in Donbass over the last 8 years.
@Art Deco:There are very few chicanos in the Southwest who can say that most of their pedigree was present there in the early 18th century…
Okay, great, but my point is solely that they exist. For people in the American Southwest today who would describe themselves as “Mexican”, there is a spectrum from “just crossed into Texas yesterday” to “descended from one of those who lived there in the 18th century”.
In Ukraine the problem is more acute in that Ukraine’s present borders were not intended to be coterminous with ethnic Ukrainians.
I skipped by the “Mexican” comments. Having read it now, no, Americans of Mexican descent, whether new (legal) immigrants or tenth-generation families, are not “Mexican.” They’re Americans.
It is “hard” to prove a negative and especially hard to prove what could have maybe happened without evidence.
@Kate:whether new (legal) immigrants or tenth-generation families, are not “Mexican.” They’re Americans.
So if they so describe themselves as “Mexican”, they are just wrong? You can decide to use words this way if you wish, so how are you going to talk about people who have American citizenship but strong cultural ties to another country? What DO you want to call them? They don’t go away by calling them “American”.
Ukraine has a much more acute problem, of course. Lots of people with Ukrainian citizenship with close cultural ties to Russia. Some of them are very loyal to Ukraine and are fighting Russians right now, but some are not. They exist and are a problem no matter what you decide you want to call them.
Do nations exist, oh the immense imponderables, are nationsl borders just dotted lines on maps, or walls, fences, rivers, oceans. Or GPS derived coordinates?
What defines a nation or nationality? “I didn’t cross the border, the border crossed me.” There is no such thing as an illegal alien?
Sort of like, what is a “woman?” 🙂
When Americans of Mexican descent describe themselves as “Mexican,” I assume them to mean a reference to their heritage and family traditions, not that they consider themselves citizens of Mexico.
My father-in-law, born in Zagreb, served in the US Navy in WWII and was enthusiastically American. My Thai sister-in-law is a naturalized American and glad to be here, as are my Vietnamese and Korean neighbors.
What you are saying, Frederick, is that the large numbers of people living north of our border who have Mexican ancestry would justify Mexico in funding an insurgency and then a war to make some of the US Mexico again. We have corruption and government problems, but Mexico is worse in both respects. In Ukraine, Russian-speaking people are not universally in agreement with joining Mother Russia and all her problems.
@Kate:What you are saying, Frederick, is that the large numbers of people living north of our border who have Mexican ancestry would justify Mexico in funding an insurgency and then a war to make some of the US Mexico again.
No, I’m saying nothing of the sort, and there is nothing I’ve said that is remotely like this. (A small number of people with views you describe exist in America of course, I went to college with them, some of them are professors in Chicano Studies by now.) But I used “Mexican” only as illustration of the ambiguity of the labels we’re using, I was not claiming we have the same level of issue Ukraine has.
In Ukraine, Russian-speaking people are not universally in agreement with joining Mother Russia and all her problems.
They’re not universally so, but some percentage of them are. There are ethnic Russians on both sides, both in the fighting and civilians. And this is an issue that complicates matters for everyone involved, like we saw in other conflicts in recent times. You can’t make them disappear by saying that everyone in Northern Ireland with a UK passport is “British” and everyone with a Serbian passport is “Serbian”.
This discussion began with the idea that there are atrocities being committed on both sides in the Ukraine war, and that we just don’t have evidence of the Ukrainian ones. I don’t see that we’re getting any closer to resolving that. At this point, there is evidence of Russian military atrocities in Ukraine. We lack similar evidence of Ukrainian military atrocities committed on civilians in Ukraine during this war.
There are very few chicanos in the Southwest who can say that most of their pedigree was present there in the early 18th century. There were in 1850 about 50,000 people enumerated in New Mexico territory who’d been born there. The Spanish census of California missions in 1796-98 found about 7,200 people in them. Mexican peninsulares, criollos, and Mestizos in Texas in 1836 numbered about 3,000. The population in the rest of the territory north of the Rio Grande was aboriginal.
IIRC there were about 15k Mexicans in California at the start of the Mexican American War, and some 2k US citizens, mostly males of fighting age. Basically there were about equal number of fighting age males in CA who were Mexican and US. US immigrants who went on the Oregan Trail and then illegally moved into CA. Those US immigrants formed the strongest army in CA during the war, organized by John Fremont.
The parts of the US that were once part of Mexico were almost uninhabited. Which is why Mexico lost it.
I also recall a census of New Mexico that showed ~46k people, but assumed most were native Americans.
I skipped by the “Mexican” comments. Having read it now, no, Americans of Mexican descent, whether new (legal) immigrants or tenth-generation families, are not “Mexican.” They’re Americans.
In my experience Tejanos are usually solid Americans, but I did meet one man who said his family was in Texas when it gained independence, and he did talk about how “their land” was taken away. However, he was a long time resident of CA, I don’t think he even lived in TX, and suspect the attitude was more from growing up in CA.
If Russian war crimes are widespread or done as a result of policy, you will never establish that by watching videos online.
There are multiple videos of Russians shooting and killing defenseless civilians. The videos show sufficient context that there is no way the shootings were justified.
Some percentage of Russian conscripts, NCOs, junior and senior officers are singing in the celestial choir courtesy of Ukrainians who didn’t want to be liberated or subject to Vlad’s de-Nazification. Imagine that.
Some people say that some Ukrainians may have suffered some harm from the Russian liberators. Who are you going to believe some people, or some Roosian speaking for Vlad?
https://redstate.com/streiff/2022/04/07/kremlin-spokesman-admits-russia-has-suffered-significant-losses-but-they-invaded-to-stop-world-war-iii-n547023
Also, given those shootings, one would expect many more took place, and the large number of bodies lying about and in graves reinforces that. The evidence certainly suggests that Russians committed a large number of war crimes, even without considering indiscriminate shelling and bombing as war crimes.
@Kate:We lack similar evidence of Ukrainian military atrocities committed on civilians in Ukraine during this war.
Sure we do, and we will continue to lack similar evidence as long as the Western media has picked its side–they’ve already decided for us what we should get to see.
But there’s 2014 – 2020 you might look around for, it’s easy to apply filters to your search engine to only look for things from those dates. Of course if you never look you’ll never find…
In 2014 Amnesty International called for the Ukrainian government to bring Ukrainian “volunteer battalions” under control and investigate their crimes. PDF at the link.
Amnesty International documented dozens of cases of abuses allegedly
committed by members of the Aidar battalion in Novoaidar district,
Starobilsk, Severodonetsk, Lysychansk, and Shchastya between late June
and late August.
Typically, the fighters abducted local men, often businessmen or farmers,
whom they accused of collaborating with the separatists and held in
makeshift detention facilities before either releasing them or handing them
over to the Security Service (SBU).
In nearly all cases documented by Amnesty International the victims were
subjected to beatings at the moment of capture and/or during
interrogations, and either had to pay ransom for their release, or had
possessions, including money, cars, telephones, and other valuables seized
by the battalion members. Many of the witnesses and victims approached
by Amnesty International were reluctant to share details of the incidents,
fearing retaliation from Aidar battalion members.
Youtube briefly had video purported to be atrocities perpetrated by the Azov Battalion back in 2015.
An editorial from 2019 by someone who says he was there:
“The viewer of ‘Donbass’ might be left with the impression that the only violence against civilians during the war was invented by Russian television. We see nothing of the poorly trained Ukrainian units firing shells at residential areas in clumsy and bloody attempts to target enemy fire.”
None of this justifies anything Putin is doing, obviously.
Artillery without forward observers to correct the fall of shot is almost always clumsy and an area weapon. “Firepower kills.” Petain IIRC.
That is why even in WWII the life of Foreward Artillery Observers was so risky and why they were are so dangerous if you are on the receiving end of observed and corrected artillery. Now a days drones make observed fire much more lethal, even for “dumb” rounds. Astounding!
Amnesty International documented dozens of cases of abuses allegedly
committed by members of the Aidar battalion in Novoaidar district,
Starobilsk, Severodonetsk, Lysychansk, and Shchastya between late June
and late August.
I expect that that type of warfare will be brutal and ugly. And it was the fault of the Russians, who were the invaders then as well as now. I don’t much care if the Ukrainian militias engaged in atrocities then, I expect the Russians were at least as bad if not worse, and they included “little green men” from Russia who shouldn’t have been there.
Amnesty International’s reports of abductions and beatings are not good, no. They are different in kind from rapes and mass graves of gunshot victims.
If the idea is to make it clear that Ukraine and its leaders are not immaculate angels of light, I don’t see that idea in the comments of anyone here.
Kate,
At some point in the game, you have to resort to means that are brutal. The UK did so with respect to the “Troubles” back in the 90s using very ruthless means to target the IRA. And it worked . . .
In the case of what was happening in Eastern Ukraine as a result of Russian destabilization, it is basically a civil war with neighbor against neighbor and militias that might be very ad hoc doing whatever they can to win. It’s going to be nasty. That would be well known to the Russians before they sent in their “little green men”. In that context I’m not going to be picky about how Ukrainian militias dealt with those who supported the Russians.
But Putin’s invasion was supposed to be de-Nazification. Why is Putin’s forces murdering civilians rather than fighting Nazis? It is because as far as Putin is concerned, any Ukrainian opposing Russian domination is a Nazi.
At some point in the game, you have to resort to means that are brutal. The UK did so with respect to the “Troubles” back in the 90s using very ruthless means to target the IRA. And it worked . . .
As far as I’m aware, about 2/3 of the deaths recorded in Ulster were so over the period running from the beginning of 1969 to the end of 1976. The civilian death toll bounced around 35 per year from 1977 to the end of ‘the Troubles’ in 1999. At least up to about 1980, about 70% of the deaths in toto were attributable to the IRA & allied. My recollection is that the military and security services improved their tactics during the 1970s and that helped contain the violence, but there was no period where they got medieval.
Amnesty International’s reports of abductions and beatings are not good, no. They are different in kind from rapes and mass graves of gunshot victims.
That would be the agency which classified Wesley Cook (aka Mumia Abu Jamal) as a ‘prisoner of conscience’, refuses to classify Alexei Navalny as such because he takes exception to mass immigration, fancies capital punishment is ipso facto a ‘human rights violation’, which fancies your rights are being violated if the state refuses to solemnize ‘marriages’ between two men, and now is propagating the notion that Israel should not exist. This is also the agency which hired an Australian Communist as their research director at one point in the 1970s.
You know what inspired Amnesty’s founding? A newspaper report about some people who were subject to government reprisals (imprisonment, I believe) for making a toast to ‘freedom’ in a café. There were 11 countries in Europe at the time (1960) where constitutional government was not in force. Of all the places in Europe which might have generated a story about the state abusing dissenters, the lawyer who founded Amnesty was inspired by one from Portugal, which may have been the least abusive of Europe’s authoritarian states in 1960, and the only one which had joined NATO. I’m sure that was just coincidental.
but there was no period where they got medieval.
What I was referring to was the Brits infiltrating the IRA using ruthless means. Having agents penetrate deep into the IRA and even engage in IRA terror attacks or murders to gain credibility, basically anything goes to deeply infiltrate the IRA.
I wasn’t referring to the military or uniformed security forces. I should have explained that.
This discusses the ruthless methods used by the UK against the IRA:
https://pilotscholars.up.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1005&context=hst_studpubs
Well, yes, anything from Amnesty International must be taken with more than a grain of salt.
A cubic yard of salt. Or with LSD and a cube of sugar.