Home » Those Whitmer kidnapping defendants and proving entrapment

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Those Whitmer kidnapping defendants and <i>proving</i> entrapment — 17 Comments

  1. I recall that the ATF, during, at least, the Obama admin, would get some low-functioning homeless person to do something illegal and then AHA!, we got another gun nut off the street.
    Holder said that, when he heard about it [when it was brought to his attention in such a way that he couldn’t deny it any longer] he stopped it. Until then, it was routine.
    So the actual question is…whether the DoJ actually stopped this stuff.

  2. Here’s a suggestion: try to shame our sociopaths in robes (who act as enablers of the sociopaths in the U.S. Attorney’s office) and redefine entrapment in the statute. Other suggestions: scarify the federal penal code and re-calibrate the sentencing, distribute federal police services over six departments, separate legal representation of the government from investigation of crimes; end the franchise of the U.S. Attorney and the Attorney-General’s other minions to initiate investigations, insisting they take referrals from federal police services, make representations in court, and advise on evidentiary gaps, and do nothing else; require rotation-in-office for lawyers employed by the attorney-general, with no one serving in the department longer than 12 years in any bloc of 14. Also, identify the most abusive offices and fire every salaried employee therein. The offices in Manhattan and in DC would be a place to start.

  3. So, we have an FBI that utterly fails to prevent real crimes like the Boston Marathon Bombing and the death of that sweet little boy whose sister lost her leg, or the two other young women who died, despite surveilling the bombers;
    didn’t keep the Orlando night club deaths from happening either, nor the FL high school deaths by the multiply reported assailant, but boy oh boy oh boy, they have PLENTY of time to cook up political kidnappings of the Michigan governor and assaults like J6.

    What a disgusting, pathetic excuse of a law enforcement agency.

    I too am done with giving a pass to the underlings. They are ALL responsible for the corruption. Anyone who stays is part of it.
    The rot is deep and extensive.

  4. It seems to me that two truths apply; firstly, FBI operatives did not force any of the defendents into continuing to participate. As soon as the expression of opinions became a decision to act, any of them could have said no and left.

    That of course ignores the possiblity that the plotters might decide that they couldn’t afford for anyone to leave…

    As well as, if any did leave would they have a legal obligation to report the plot?

    Secondly, the FBI operatives, their handlers and their superiors are guilty of participation in a conspiracy to incite violence.

    That, IMO legally invalidates the FBI’s modus operandi. The jury should render a verdict of not guilty, to send a message that this is not acceptable behavior. Then in 2024, a Republican President and Congress, after sweeping the upper echelons of the DOJ clean should prosecute all involved. Let them experience for themselves how the process can be the punishment.

  5. Lee, How about Nidal Hasan and the Ft. Hood shooting?

    Wikipedia:
    Prior to the shooting, Hasan expressed critical views described by colleagues as “anti-American”. An investigation conducted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) concluded his e-mails with the late Imam Anwar al-Awlaki were related to his authorized professional research and he was not a threat. The FBI, Department of Defense (DoD) and U.S. Senate all conducted investigations after the shootings. The DoD classified the events as “workplace violence”, pending prosecution of Hasan in a court-martial. The Senate released a report describing the mass shooting as “the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil since September 11, 2001”.

    As I recall, Hasan was practically shouting for jihad at a profession psychiatry (or similar) conference prior to one of the pre-shooting investigations. But hey, the FBI or DoD can’t be seen engaging in any Islamophobia.

    A very well put-together post Neo.

  6. I saw some hearings on the Nassar case. One writer characterized Wray as, “Gosh, it’s too bad it happened.”
    He’s going to train some of his people to take this seriously, which presumes they don’t now.
    They didn’t even bother to call local LE.
    One big shooter was gunning for a job with the USOC, I think it was, and wasn’t about to annoy them.
    But…priorities. Fifteen good men and true were all over Bubba Wallace’s noose.
    And, of course, the annoyed parents at school board meetings.

  7. The FBI did nothing about that doctor in Michigan

    I think the list can go on and on and on about ineffectual FBI..

  8. My “knowledge” of entrapment pretty much comes from TV and movies, and mostly to do with shows about prostitution.

    It seemed to me on those shows, of the undercover cop came up to the “working girl” and said, “I’ll give you money for sex,” and the woman did it, it was entrapment. The undercover cop had to wait for the working girl to say “Hello, hey Joe, you wanna give it a go? $100, okay?” She’s arrested.

    I have no idea how realistic this is.

  9. If the defense is able to get at least some of this material into evidence at trial, I wonder if jury nullification is a possibility. Here’s the full force of the FBI and the federal government against these somewhat hapless individuals.

  10. Hard to say how this is going in the population at large, but for a good many hereabouts–and how many elsewhere–are on the point of presuming any fed testimony or evidence is necessarily suspect. Might not prove it’s bogus but when it’s a matter of putting somebody in jail for decades….

  11. Lee Also:

    That’s the way it’s SUPPOSED to work. In reality, especially with political cases, the agents and informants are often much more directive and they know it will almost never backfire on them.

  12. I would get rid of Federal Law enforcement all together. Just use marshals as delivery boys. There should be no FBI, ATF, DEA at all.

  13. My point is that the corruption of federal law enforcement is a much bigger problem than entrapment law.

    You don’t have the believe that these defendants shoud be acquitted to believe that the FBI has done something corrupt here that needs to be addressed. It’s also much harder to convince people that the defendants should be acquitted than it is to persuade people of FBI corruption.

    I don’t want to lose a chance to address the FBI’s corruption here by tying it to the fates of these defendants.

  14. Bauxite:

    I don’t think anyone here would disagree with the idea that FBI corruption is huge and more important than this particular case.

    But this case is important, as is any miscarriage of justice. The two things are certainly connected, and in fighting one you fight the other as well.

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