Do Giuliani, Powell, and Ellis have the goods?
This seems to be a big argument at present on the right (see this): have Giuliani and Powell and Ellis presented enough “evidence” of fraud?
Here’s a transcript of the text of their press conference, if you haven’t watched the video.
But I find the criticism of Giuliani et al to be rather odd, because I don’t see how they can possibly present the actual evidence to the press right now. It’s complex and voluminous and belongs in a courtroom. In many cases, witnesses don’t want their identities publicly revealed on cable news. This was stated at the press conference, and the three lawyers certainly described the evidence in some detail. I don’t think the press ordinarily demands that lawyers show them the actual evidence in a press conference – perhaps they do privately, but I’m certainly not aware of it.
I have no idea whether the Trump lawyers actually have the goods, and I certainly have no idea whether they have enough of the goods to prevail in court (which is a somewhat different matter). And I don’t see how anyone else other than the legal team itself can know that at the moment – nor would any evidence convince most of their critics, certainly not the ones on the left. After all, the press was shown a great deal of the evidence in the Hunter Biden laptop situation and they either refused to cover it or said (with no evidence at all) that it was Russian disinformation, their go-to claim for anything to which they want the public to pay no attention.
It’s not really about evidence for the press. Evidence is for the court – if the court is unbiased. But the amount of evidence required to prove a case to that court (ultimately SCOTUS, most likely) is not the same as the amount of evidence that would convince the public, and is also different from whether any court will be able and willing to give sufficient relief even if that court judges the evidence convincing. Short of having a new election – which I doubt a court would order – or throwing the election to the House (which I also doubt) I just can’t see what a sufficient remedy would be.
I also find it difficult to figure out what would constitute more evidence than hundreds of sworn witnesses willing to testify. If and when audits are done that include the mail-in envelopes (often unavailable in many states, if I’m correct), then that will be more evidence, but that hasn’t occurred yet. Trump’s lawyers even say they have Dominion employees willing to testify to fraud – that seems like good evidence to me. But again, short of trotting them out to speak at a press conference – which they understandably don’t want to do – we need to wait and see. We’re most likely not going to find a series of emails where the plotters discuss exactly how they’re going to do it, but sometimes I think even that would not be enough evidence for those who don’t want to believe that such a fraud took place.
I repeat, just to make it clear: I don’t know whether it did. But I know that I’m interested in hearing what the evidence will be in court, and until then I don’t expect to see more than I’ve already seen.
There’s no mystery as to why the left dismisses all of this. The more interesting case is why some on the right do. I think that some of them are backpedaling out of fear. The fear has several possible causes. For those in the media, they may think that if they go too far with this they’ll risk being Glenn Becked and labeled as kooks forever. Of course, they risk that label and worse, whatever they do, if they’re on the right. The second is that what Giuliani and the rest are claiming is so terrifying, so serious and widespread (like something out of a James Bond movie), that it’s easy to hope that it isn’t true because it’s far more frightening if it is.
Of course none of us want this to be true-if so, we are living in a banana republic too. But seems pretty obvious there is fraud. Powell is a serious woman and unless she’s had a very subtle infarct that has blinded her reasoning capacity, I tend to believe her. The issue for me are some on the right. For years there have been go-to people on the right that I also *tended* to believe.
And when the ‘right’ like Tucker Carlson scoffs it becomes disconcerting. I read on Conservative Treehouse a long article about Fox including Tucker Carlson to shed some light (if true) about some of the machinations of Fox including some of my luminaries like Tucker and Laura Ingraham. The article brings on more despair for me and my immediate peeps–who is really on the side of liberty? Or are most of these also “elites” or RINO’s who have been hiding their real beliefs or just money folk (ie they will sway their opinions to fit who pays them)? I have recently left Fox for Newsmaxx as many others-but for years trusted Fox. https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/11/19/the-agenda-of-fox-news-many-have-forgotten-and-perhaps-many-more-do-not-know/
The evidence for irregularities in the election (from unverified and fraudulent mail-in ballots to ballot-harvesting to the inability of Republican poll-watchers to observe properly to all the numerical and statistical anomalies) is considerable, but it seems as if the case in court may depend on the many problems with Dominion and Smartmatic, both of which are privately held and somewhat opaque to investigators, but the persons thus far identified with the two foreign companies are all leftist globalists almost certain to be hostile to Trump. There may not be sufficient time for Sidney and the other lawyers to construct a winning case, and perhaps only a computer scientist could unravel all the complexities in the data, but the election seems indisputably, from what has thus far been made public, to have been rigged.
Giuliani presented direct and indirect evidence, affidavits, statistical analysis, pattern analysis, etc. The media are just lying when they say “there is no evidence.” The behavior of the Biden Campaign and their supporters since Election Day is evidence in itself of criminal activity–they are intimidating witnesses, threatening lawyers, and censoring critics…instead of just saying: “See you in court! We look forward to presenting our case.” Bottom line: they are acting guilty after having been caught red-handed. And the media is lying and covering-up. Come on, Man!
Interview of Sidney Powell by Howie Carr yesterday about this topic (duh):
https://youtu.be/F5vndAmMqAM
When the errors go in all directions, it’s variance. When the errors all go in the same direrction, someone has their thumb on the scale. Or maybe a fist. Or many fists.
If memory serves, there was a contested election in North Carolina(?) a couple years or so back that was tossed by the courts. The contesting party didn’t have to prove each and every instance of fraud, only that it existed and in sufficient quantity that the election was compromised and required a do-over. Obviously I’m not a lawyer, so I have no idea how that precedent (or if it even is one) translates to the national stage.
As to Guiliani, Ellis et al, whatever they’re doing, they need to get on with it. The clock is ticking.
I just came here after visiting Conservative Treehouse. They have some quotes from Sidney Powell saying she would stake her personal and professional reputation on this evidence. Really, those comments are superfluous, because as also noted, she’s said enough for a defamation lawsuit by Dominion. That shows a lot of confidence to me.
@Leland: ” . . . she’s said enough for a defamation lawsuit by Dominion. That shows a lot of confidence to me.”
Lin Wood, too, has come right out and said, and repeated, that Georgia’s governor and secretary of state are “corrupt” and “dirty,” and he has defied both of them to sue him for slander. As we have seen, Lin Wood knows something about the law as it applies to slander and libel.
The Democrats and their putrid allies are continuing to bluff and bluff big.
Correction: Bluff huge.
They know what they did.
They know how they did it.
They believe it will be impossible to prove sufficiently.
They may be correct.
They’ve been attacking Trump’s lawyers.
They’ve been attacking whistleblowers.
They are intimidating and doxxing anyone and everyone that raises their head in doubt of what the result SHOULD be—IOW, what the result IS.
They’ve been attacking peaceful marchers in support of President Trump.
As has been said by more than several: “Not exactly the kind of behavior one expects of people who have nothing to hide.”
The problem is that while the fraud was massive and multi-faceted—and multi-state, 1) it has to be proved and 2) the proof has to be accepted by the presiding judge in each case.
All this, with time running out and Democratic Party (and antifa/BLM affiliate and Media) intimidation and threats of prosecution and violence hanging over the entire process.
It’s a maddening example of something being so obviously true, and so eminently unprovable in the courts where it counts. That’s the essence of it: Too Big to Prove. It’s obvious to all that Joe Biden is an even sorrier Presidential Candidate than Hillary, and that Kamala makes Tim Kaine look sane and decent by comparison. There is no way this Candidate team collected a record number of votes across the US, and outperformed both Hillary and the Chosen One in Republican districts, let alone Democrat ones – we all know it.
I have my doubts that this legal team will prevail by going big. I would much prefer a ground battle in individual states to argue inspection of ballots, signature checks, and re-canvassing, with the hopeful goal of a re-vote being declared. I think a few re-votes under very tight control in select districts would open up the whole can of worms, once the disparities come to light.
The press wants all of the evidence trotted out for them to take pot shots at. It would be a juicy ratings boon, and it would land them solid control of the court they own – the Court of Public Opinion, where they rule. So withholding this proof from them, whatever it is, is definitely the right thing to do; deny them this game.
But Giuliani is old and not the hardass he once was. He has a tendency to wave papers around and rant, wild-eyed, fumbling on his words the way old men do. Powell is emotional, too. This is not the way to present a case like this – we can already see how the media is cherry-picking this footage to cast them as unreliable, unhinged, discreditable.
But their biggest problem, as I see it, is having these cases in front of state judges who are elected and who will attempt to run the clock, drag it out, refute the cases, all for political reasons that are founded on their vulnerability in their given positions. Will the team have time then to appeal to the Federal judges and then USSC? I guess we’ll see. What we really need is a re-vote.
Let it Roll.
This election was dirty. The consummation of a lifetime of Biden grift and grab.
@Aggie: ” . . . their biggest problem, as I see it, is having these cases in front of state judges . . .”
Sidney Powell said in her podcast interview with Howie Carr (see link provided by commenter “om,” above) that the first stop will be the federal courts.
As a non-lawyer, I assume it is necessary to establish “means, motive, and opportunity” in order to get a conviction for electoral fraud. But almost every discussion seems to have neglected “motive” and concentrated instead on means and opportunity.
Motive? Isn’t a desire for power a self-evident motive? What more is needed? Well, I think there is much more needed: paradoxically motive may be the weak point in the President’s case.
Is electoral success sufficient motive to undertake a capital coup? Isn’t much of the skepticism about the coup based on its audacity and scope, and isn’t that in essence a questioning of whether there could realistically be sufficient motive?
The President’s legal team should resist any temptation to set aside the 800-lb gorilla of all motives… the results of the Durham investigation! The motive of avoiding going to jail (or worse) strikes me as a very excellent motive for a large number of actors to engage a national plot to overthrow a President via election fraud, and it could help many Americans make the mental leap to grasping the reality of one of the greatest crimes in our history!
The servers were seized. Dominion is on the run. Spec Ops has been moved directly under a Trump loyalist at DoD. The election is being run by persons of both parties at all levels who might well owe their own office to election fraud and that includes AG’s and judges. There are foreign powers involved. I really don’t think in the end this is a con law issue. We are in terra incognita here.
I urge you to go to
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/11/sidney_powell_has_expanded_on_the_scope_of_the_dominion_scam.html
which has two different interviews of Sydney Powell. They are explosive and both worth listening to despite some overlap. Millions of dead people voting, millions of votes fabricated for Biden, millions stolen from Trump, all done by using the Dominion machines with Smartmatic software that is specifically designed to fix elections. They have sworn testimony from one of the men who helped Hugo Chavez create it at its inception and how it’s been used to swing elections worldwide for at least the last decade. The claim she makes about the server in Germany and its connection to the CCP and Iran, if proven true, constitutes an act of war.
One item that I found amusing in a ghoulish sort of way, was that Hillary Clinton used it in 2016 to beat Bernie Sanders in California. He knew and decided to take a bribe instead of exposing the fraud. A real standup guy, a genuine Democrat.
The whole thing is a nightmare of the worst kind and a fundamental attack on the Republic by the Democrat Party. If they get away with this, the USA is done for.
I hope they’ve got what they say they do. Declining to go on TV with Tucker Carlson to put it on public view before it hits the courts is sensible. And Dominion and state authorities are not behaving much like innocent parties. We’ll see.
One problem I have is, having heard a lot of big gunslinger talk from Barr and Durham about their Russiagate investigation — then nothing — I’m not much in the mood take officials’ words for how great their case is.
I’m certainly not going to watch a two-hour video of empty gasbaggery on the subject.
I understand why some on the right are skeptical of the claims of massive fraud involving Dominion. It sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory and if true, would be the biggest scandal in our country’s history. But instead of dismissing the fraud claims out of hand and urging the Trump supporters to just give up and move on, they could just say that we will have to wait to see what evidence is out there before making a determination. It does seem odd to me, that almost on cue, several conservative pundits have decided to say we should not even be interested in hearing the evidence because it damages the voters belief in the integrity of our elections (as if there was any integrity left to believe in).
It wasn’t too long ago when I wouldn’t have thought the more extreme charges of election fraud were possible, but now I think almost anything is possible if it can be used to destroy Trump and his supporters. Every time I think I couldn’t possibly be more cynical, I’m proven wrong. It looks like we had a fake candidate who ran a fake campaign covered by a fake media in a fake election. I don’t know where we go from here but there is no way we can just flip a switch and get back to “normal”.
We all know that there has been voter fraud and election and ballot counting irregularities.
The question that interests the media and most people only, is whether there was programmatic electoral fraud.
Yet there appeared to be enough “mere” voter fraud and election irregularties in Wayne County, Michigan to justify the board of canvassers refusing to certify the election. The two Republicans, as we all by now know, initially did refuse.
Instead of staying steadfast though, they succumbed to veiled threats and intimidation by Democrats; and were then thrown a face saving bone by the Secretary of State: promising that she would investigate. So they certified, and she reneged. And then they tried to protest.
This is typical of Republicans: to be defrauded and then be convinced to play along with the cheats anyway … because being cheated is not such a big deal, because you ought to be used to it by now, because it won’t hurt that much, and because we are all one and fellow Americans in the end, or some lying bullshit like that.
So, they allow themselves to be rolled again and again and again, because we supposedly value our good relationships as a “we” with these God damned thieves more than our freedom and our integrity and our right to live an honest life by honest rules, right?
No. And I don’t value these relationships. They are dishonest relationships, if sometimes convenient, with morally hollow people who will sell you out to get what they want the moment they decide they want it.
We, speaking of me on the one hand and Democrats on the other, do notwant the same things out of life; and in cash vale terms, I gain nothing, absolutely nothing from these liars and cheats that I could not obtain just as easily, or better, from human beings whose life strategy was not ultimately as insanely nihilistic as theirs.
Not to get too wound up, but their entire life strategy is based on lies and deceit and a vampiric social manipulation and defrauding of supposed peers, at all levels.
There is a scriptural passage that comes to mind here, regarding liars and their “father”. But though it remains a literally and secularly true description [ apple from the tree lineage] whether or not the metaphysics is ultimately sound, I’ll let it rest there for the moment.
huxley:
Time is indeed precocious but the total time for the videos cited by Paul in Boston is less than 25 minutes if my math skilzs are correct. Sidney Powel isn’t gasbaggery IMO.
Anyone who bets against Trump when he makes outlandish claims is foolish. Trump said that his campaign had been spied on. The media hooted and claimed he was delusional. Turns out he was correct.
Giuliani is on solid ground with his accusations of fraud. The fraud on the ground is extensive and in your face.
Sidney Powell is on more shaky ground because she is dealing with a massive conspiracy in which people on the ground were covering for the folks at Dominion who were directing the fraud. The seized server may have the smoking gun.
I have no idea how it will turn out. The fraud plan seems very well designed and executed. Will there be enough time to expose it? I don’t know.
neo: The second is that what Giuliani and the rest are claiming is so terrifying, so serious and widespread (like something out of a James Bond movie), that it’s easy to hope that it isn’t true because it’s far more frightening if it is.
tina: Of course none of us want this to be true-if so, we are living in a banana republic too.
Exactly. The naked fact of the matter is that a constitutional representative democracy literally lives and dies based on the integrity of the voting process, and as I wrote recently from the perspective of a software engineer with some expertise in modern cryptography and digital security, our voting process is a sick joke, and doubly so if even 10% of the allegations against the Dominion systems are true. You cannot simultaneously believe the United States is the most powerful nation on earth and that its human election officials are 100% above the temptation to swing things the way they’d prefer, given the means and opportunity to do so. Unfortunately, this means, as a practical matter, descent into banana republic territory is inevitable—until and unless there’s a revolution that makes cheating literally mathematically impossible. And yes, I mean “revolution” in the sense of killing those opposed, just as the American Revolution meant killing those opposed.
“…a fake candidate who ran a fake campaign covered by a fake media in a fake election.”
Precisely. And they knew they’d win.
Not “knew”.
Knew.
All that antifa/BLM violence was “a myth”, “an idea”.
Pelosi’s antics in the House and her supposed “negotiations”, with the Republicans regarding Covid assistance—with all those insane add-ons and conditions—that for the most part got absolutely nowhere.
All that violence in Democratic Party governed cities.
All that Mainstream Corrupt Media insanity.
All the politicized mixed-messages on Covid
Nope, they weren’t worried one bit about any of that. Any hint of bad “optics” just rolled off ’em like water of a duck.
Turned a lot of voters off, though. Count on it.
But…hey, no worries.
So why weren’t they worried?
How could they not have been worried?
The ONLY conclusion was that they had an ace up their sleeve.
But what was it? A new impeachment farce? A new Trump scandal? Trump’s imminent arrest for…whatever?
What was that ace they had up their sleeve?
Well, it turned out it was more than just one ace. In fact, it was more than a few aces in that stacked, dirty deck they unleashed.
Welcome to the 2020 elections.
But I find the criticism of Giuliani et al to be rather odd, because I don’t see how they can possibly present the actual evidence to the press right now.
___________
I think a lot of the criticism – and I mean that coming from the people I’m inclined to see as actually on my side – comes down to frustration. Frustration over the way in which Clinton got away with it. The way the whole brigade of Russian hoaxers got away with it. With Durham’s investigation getting nothing.
That has reduced many to the level of an eight year old. “I want it NOW!.”
Understandable feelings. But just that – feelings. One unfortunate effect of the assault on Trump, for our side, has been a discernably more emotional approach.
Dennis:
Agreed that Trump has usually been right even when he’s ridiculed for what he says. But as far as Russiagate/Spygate goes, I think the conspirators were successful – not in removing him, but in taking up an enormous amount of the administration’s time and energy, poisoning half of the population against his presidency, and doing it pretty much without any consequences for the vast majority of them to this day. That’s the problem as I see it. Same for fraud, even if it happened on a vast scale. Hard to prove, harder to prove to the standard required by courts, and still harder to find a remedy.
But I find the criticism of Giuliani et al to be rather odd, because I don’t see how they can possibly present the actual evidence to the press right now.
neo: I wouldn’t expect any names to be named and other such obviously injudicious material. Nonetheless, it did seem possible, based on the statistical tidbits we have seen on the web plus examples for vote transfers, to see overwhelming, detailed statistical evidence and hopefully direct evidence from the vote feeds indicating massive fraud.
A few hundred cases of retail fraud involving a couple dozen or a couple hundred votes, however well documented, isn’t going to cut it.
If Powell can’t reveal anything important, why is she giving interviews? It’s not unreasonable for Republicans to expect she has something substantive to say beyond “We’ve got a whole lot of Real Strong Evidence we’re going to use Real Soon Now!”
The clock is ticking. The electors vote Dec. 8 — that’s only 2 1/2 weeks away. When are Powell et al. going to make their move? It better be soon.
But as far as Russiagate/Spygate goes, I think the conspirators were successful, but in taking up an enormous amount of the administration’s time and energy, poisoning half of the population against his presidency, and doing it pretty much without any consequences for the vast majority of them to this day.
neo: There might have been consequences if Barr/Durham had actually moved on the evidence they had. It seemed to me the Swamp had been caught in enough lies and funny business, that various Creatures could at least have been charged and made to sweat.
I’m not saying the Swamp would have been drained and justice perfectly served, but there would have been some consequences.
As it is Democrats can say that the Trump DOJ did their best but failed to make a case, just as we say the Democrats failed to make a case against Trump.
Chases Eagles said:
“There are foreign powers involved. I really don’t think in the end this is a con law issue. We are in terra incognita here.”
This is the crux of it. Terra incognita. Considering what Sydney Powell alleges has happened, and she is a serious woman, I don’t think it’s possible this gets settled in a courtroom, or multiple courtrooms. The Left and its allies, foreign and domestic, crossed a line, possibly the biggest line.
This one is for all the marbles, as they say.
Additionally, I have two friends in the Dept. of Defense and they sound as worried and anxious as I have ever heard them, and that is taking into account one was at the Pentagon on 9/11. They don’t seem to think a court or electoral college solution is in the cards.
Lin Wood has now raised the specter of pedophilia. He claims that the Jeffrey Epstein, Anthony Weiner, and Hunter affairs (and the non-existent Durham report) are all connected with each other and with foreign interference in the election. Strong stuff; can’t be walked back. Listen here: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/every-lie-will-revealed-going-shocked-level-pdophilia-satanic-worship-lin-wood-not-hold-back-explosive-thrive-time-interview-video/
We have become Russia after the czar’s murder: Bolsheviks vs. Mensheviks.
The Bolshies, with Lenin, won, and so the USSR was born.
We here are some of the Mensheviks and Kulaks who will be put to ground with the permanent rule of Bolshevik Democrats, about whose evil nature there can be no doubt.
There’s the old saw about the Tree of Liberty needing to be nourished, but that won’t happen either.
I am sad. Very.
This is not that Louie Gohmert business, is it?
Whose servers were seized? What were they for? When were they seized? Where and by whom, and under what authority?
The “Germany” story, which Ghomert admitted sprang from a supposed tweet he could not even read , has been categorically denied by all parties ostensibly concerned, on top of its being outlandish in premise.
Is this about some other election related “servers? ?
@LB100: “Lin Wood has now raised the specter of pedophilia.”
Oh, wonderful. That’s all we needed. I thought Lin Wood was relatively sane. Now we can all watch our one slim chance at revealing electoral fraud (and worse) go up in a QAnon/Pizzagate bonfire.
Yeah, just read the quote at the link. I believe this, I believe that, it’s gonna come out … you’ll be shocked …
All Republicans have to do is focus on the legitimate certification issue and get their damned canvassers to stick to their duties and principles. Just a little old fashioned 19th century, by the letter of the law, hard-ball maneuvering politics.
But that seems too much to ask.
Attorney Lin Wood: So the Supreme Court is being aligned. They Department of Defense was recently realigned by the president. Take a look at how he put in place, a cyberterrorism and terrorism expert. As I said look at what he did in 2018 with the executive order to deal with foreign interference in our national elections. Look, I’d like to see in a perfect world, John Durham’s report come out and people go to jail. I’d like to see Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell and a lot of people go to jail. I’d like to see what’s on Hunter Biden’s laptop. I’d like to see those people go to jail. I’d like to see what’s on Anthony Weiner’s laptop. I’d like to see a lot of people go to jail. And then when we get to the final phase of the election fraud I’d like to see people go to jail. The one thing I’ll say is there’ll be an intermingling. There will be people going to jail I believe who are involved in all of those or some of those same investigations. So there is potentially a great awakening. The truth has to come out. I believe it will. I do not think that you can hide the truth. I do say it and I believe it, every lie will be revealed. This country’s going to be shocked when the find the truth about who’s been occupying the Oval Office for some periods of years. They’re going to be shocked at the level of pedoph*lia. They are going to be shocked at what I believe is going to be a revelation in terms of people who are engaged in satanic worship.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/every-lie-will-revealed-going-shocked-level-pdophilia-satanic-worship-lin-wood-not-hold-back-explosive-thrive-time-interview-video/
_____________________________________
MollyG, DNW: Above is the pull quote from the GatewayPundit link. I share your concern.
I believe there has been serious fraud, even enough to steal the election. I suspect the world of the elites may truly be as depraved as Kubrick’s final film, “Eyes Wide Shut.”
But the wild speculations are not helping the issue at hand: verifying fraud and solving the immediate and quite serious problem of who is President.
@DNW I can’t remember where I saw this. But someone was saying that one or more servers were seized from a US (military? cia?) facility in Germany. Apparently neither Gina Haskell or Christopher Wray were informed ahead of time. I think when S.Powell said a server was seized and she doesn’t know whether it’s in the hands of the good guys or the bad guys, this was what she was talking about.
DNW,
Same server or servers but confirmed by Sydney Powell and later she said the “I’m hearing that it was our forces that got those servers.”
MollyG: I’m reserving judgment. Lin Wood does have a stellar reputation, and Creepy Joe has a hard time keeping his hands off the ten year-olds. And let’s not forget Ma and Pa Clinton’s visits to Epstein’s underaged-laden fantasy island. Ghislaine Maxwell may be connecting a few dots, too, as she mulls over a lengthy stint behind bars. Anthony Weiner is also a bit peculiar, and he was only one step removed from the Clinton family.
Neo said:
“But as far as Russiagate/Spygate goes, I think the conspirators were successful .”
I agree. When I said that I wouldn’t bet against Trump, it was in response to whether his team has evidence of fraud. The evidence of widespread fraud which all works against Trump and for Biden is very strong. Whether there are any judges who will be brave enough to punish the fraud is an entirely different question.
In my mind the evidence of massive fraud and a stolen election is overwhelming. Those who say that Trump’s team haven’t provided enough evidence are either willfully blind or are being overcome by the left’s propaganda.
I knew the fix was in on the night of the election when the media refused to call states for Trump. When Biden came in and proclaimed that things were looking good for him while Trump had big leads in most of the swing states, I knew that massive fraud was coming. Biden is so senile it is obvious that he was following a script written by people behind the scenes.
@LB100: If you’re reserving judgment, good for you. That’s not the point. We can all reserve judgment about QAnon/Pizzagate-level conspiracies on our own time, so to speak. The point here is the actual coup that is being attempted in our country, and I do not use the term “coup” lightly.
MollyG: Thanks for the sermon. The Trump lawyers, however, are engaged in war. Their 400 affidavits and statistical evidence, which most people on this site find persuasive, do not seem to be gaining traction. Even the WSJ editorial board is sending happy birthday notes to Biden. The forces behind this “coup” are evil, so I don’t offhandedly dismiss Lin Woods’ allegations. If Trump’s lawyers have the evidence, and believe it to be true, they should go with it.
DNW, Library Nerd, and others,
Mark Wauck has been posting on the (alleged) Frankfurt operation on his blog, Meaning in History. His latest:
https://meaninginhistory.blogspot.com/2020/11/the-frankfurt-raid-and-related-matters.html
Scroll back for previous entries on the story. Apparently it was a CIA facility on a U.S. Army base.
Wauck is retired FBI. His posts on Russiagate and the Mueller investigation were solid and on-point. As others have remarked, however, we seem to be in unknown territory.
@LB100: One final remark.
I agree that the affidavits and statistical evidence do not seem to be gaining traction.
And why would they ever gain traction, when we have propaganda organs rather than news media, and when the despicable Lincoln Project doxxed the president’s lawyers, and when Democrats on a Michigan board of elections threatened their Republican colleagues and their colleagues’ children when the Republicans declined to certify the fraudulent election in Detroit?
In my opinion, and apparently you disagree, QAnon/Pizzagate does nothing but muddy the waters for those of us who are cautiously trying, outside the progaganda channels, to talk calmly and persuasively with some of the people in our lives who are so far gone that they still believe the president is a Russian asset.
And by the way, “the president’s lawyers” (as you refer to Lin Wood and perhaps others) are not the ones poking around in the QAnon/Pizzagate dumpster. Lin Wood is not one of the president’s lawyers in the sense that Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani, and Jenna Ellis are the president’s lawyers, but he is certainly capable of tarring them with the crazy brush.
MollyG: My final word(s): I never paid much attention to the Pizzagate stories, partly because they were irrelevant to the outcome of the 2016. Neither one of us knows what evidence Lin Wood has, but it is just possible that whatever it is could be determinative.
And, for your information, I just happen to have noticed that Lin Wood does not represent President Trump. However, he is closely allied with President Trump’s legal team, and lawyers above PI/Avenatti levels do not retain their reputations if they make career-ending wild charges. Lin Wood has been around for many year, and as far as I know, his reputation is solid.
tina,
I stopped watching FOX a decade ago. I endured years of watching interviewers and hosts drop the ball when obvious followup questions were ignored. I attributed it to incompetence. The article you cite is very disturbing and reveals a much more disturbing rationale for what I saw on FOX those many years ago.
That picture of Jeb Bush, Murdoch and Valerie Jarrett says it all.
I used to privately dismiss claims of a globalist conspiracy. I can no longer do so, however coordinated or amorphous it may be, there’s fire behind all that smoke.
So Tucker Carlson’s a bad guy now. He was once good but he questioned Powell, who could have just answered we will present our evidence on X date, but instead got all angry and so Tucker’s a bad guy now.
James Mattis was a good guy once too, but not any more.
Like the left, we’re now all about hanging tough on narratives and damn anybody that gets in the way of that.
You know, if the kraken doesnt exist, (and I doubt it does), it makes it that much more difficult for the rest of us to claim anymore credibility in the area of objectivity than the left has, making our side no better at telling the truth and that much more easier to ignore.
“When the errors go in all directions, it’s variance. When the errors all go in the same direrction, someone has their thumb on the scale. Or maybe a fist. Or many fists.” Belmont
Consider this succienct synopsis;
The fraud is beyond massive and undeniably obvious. They imagine that 75-80 million patriotic Americans are sheep that will go quietly into enslavement. They mistake law abiding citizens seeking redress of grievance for acquiescence.
If the courts rule in favor of the gravest fraudulent theft in history, the rule of law will be dead and the globalist democrats will have ‘ruled’ that might makes right. That will prove to be a strategically fatal error.
Future events will prove that it will be they, along with the democrat party and mass media who will have made an even greater misjudgement than did the Japanese high command.
Tucker must always be believed? Funny the recollection of Sidney Powell doesn’t match Tucker. Is Tucker in the law business or in the media business? Do you take a talking head to court or a lawyer? Or should you take a talking head’s advice when preparing a legal strategy? What to do, oh what to do?
Mattis must still be honored or we will be just as bad as the Democrats, any other strawmen out there? Was Mattis good when he served in the BHO admin, but got fired there too. Maybe it’s a Mattis problem? It seems to me that many high up officers play a lot of partisan politics lately. Protect their own rice bowl muchly?
Yes our credibility with the media and the progressives and worst in something that must be valued as they talk about re-educating and punishing all who have opposed them. I doubt that our “credibility” is a top problem. Their rules aren’t our rules.
Haven’t read all the comments yet – but
“We’re most likely not going to find a series of emails where the plotters discuss exactly how they’re going to do it, but sometimes I think even that would not be enough evidence for those who don’t want to believe that such a fraud took place.” – Neo
QED.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_controversy
Om, our credibility value will mean zilch if the kraken fails to appear and we end up looking just as full of crap as the other side. We have to compete with ideas out there and our worth depends on who ends up more trustworthy.
Giuliani, Powell, and Ellis offer up extraordinary claims which require extraordinary evidence, not dramatic news conferences with breathless utterances.
Thank god for Tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro asking those questions and keeping our side committed to the truth. You’d think you’d want that. Afterall, we’ve been eagerly wishing the leftist media had the same integrity.
So very sorry, but no. They don’t have the goods. Not in Philly, not in Penn. Not enough:
Pressed by Brann on Tuesday if he was actually alleging voter fraud, Giuliani acknowledged that he was not.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pennsylvania-judge-throws-out-trump-campaign-lawsuit
If Rudy is unwilling or can’t actually allege voter fraud, it’s Not Good Enough.
Even if the truth is that there was fraud.
And hundreds of inspectors saw actions that could support fraud.
And a few witnesses were ordered by superiors to commit fraud – these are not enough.
99% the SCOTUS will accept the state certifications.
Biden cheats for the win.
“our credibility value will mean zilch if the kraken fails to appear” – but Reps already see the kraken, the evidence, in the affidavits. By the hundreds. And the news media doesn’t.
If the kraken isn’t shown in any Dem media, did it really appear?
Here’s the problem:
The election counting has rules to get an honest result.
Many times the rules were violated, so that illegal votes are mixed in with legal votes.
The result is not an honest result, but also a mass of legal and many, tho fewere, illegal votes.
There is no way to separate the legal from the illegal votes once they are combined.
The lawsuits have to successful exclude huge numbers of votes, including both many (mostly? unprovable) illegals and many legals.
The court, in theory, can do that. I think it should.
The only way to get Dem cheaters to stop cheating is to catch them, and have the Dems lose because they violated the rules.
All the disputed votes in the Dem controlled cities with “irregularities” should be thrown out, and the blame placed on those who failed to enforce the rules. The same corrupt Dems who did the fraud.
Seems like a comic book outcome – ain’t gonna happen.
Add PizzaGate pedophilia* – and it’s not provable, and becomes laughable.
As Neo said above about other deep state crimes:
doing it pretty much without any consequences for the vast majority of them to this day. That’s the problem as I see it. Same for fraud, even if it happened on a vast scale. Hard to prove, harder to prove to the standard required by courts, and still harder to find a remedy.
The remedy is to allow courts and “certifiers” to disallow large numbers of possibly illegal votes mixed with legal votes because of violation of rules – so as to make the Dems who enforce the rules more willing to enforce them.
Cheaters have to lose to stop the cheating.
*I actually believe there was illegal sex between Pres. Clinton and underage girls on Epstein’s orgy island, along with Prince Andrew and many other powerful men, often with underage boys – but not provable, so hardly worth talking about. Adding it to election fraud makes it more likely the fraud succeeds.
Related:
https://www.blazingcatfur.ca/2020/11/22/sidney-powell-has-expanded-on-the-scope-of-the-dominion-scam/
“Raw Data Confirms in 68 Seconds Tens of Thousands of Votes Switched: Brian Trascher”
https://youtu.be/AgDyeNJ4FBk
Continued…
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2020/11/21/sidney-powell-whistleblowers-may-need-witness-protection-after-their-allegations-are-brought-to-light-n2580467
Limbaugh made the point recently that Giuliani and Powell are the last people to risk a reprise of the Geraldo/Capone’s vault debacle.
If you buy this line of thinking, then they must have the goods. It might not be good enough–in terms of time, partisan judges, and several other problems–to give Trump the win. But it would be huge.
But presuming these folks want to fall on their sword(s), without the protections the Russiagate perps have, by peddling a tanker load of hooey, what would be the point?
It would have to be enormously suggestive in the way it’s presented even if it’s not dispositive, or if it’s true but not actionable, to keep having legs. Whose effect would be to put a cloud over the Biden/Harris administration. Turnabout, no? Handicapping.
Read someplace that Dominion, if a legitimate operation, would absolutely have to sue Powell for defamation, or they’d go bankrupt. What elections officials would want to have that baggage? You might be crooked, but you’d need some other equipment.
Sue and win, I mean. But, unless they’re as pure as the driven snow, they can’t, because of discovery. There may be other irregularities having nothing to do with our election that they don’t want exposed.
But I think Limbaugh has it right: these folks can’t afford to show us an empty bunker full of rat turds–as Rush said wrt Geraldo’s discovery. And, unlike Geraldo, they’re in a position to know whether there’s a there there.
Of course, if the effort fails, the left will insist that means there was no evidence at all. But the truth from them is not to be expected anyway.
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Little noticed except by those of us with “skin in the game” are the number of arrests of children traffickers by NOT THE FBI but by federal marshals. There have been more arrests and more children save in the last 4 years than in the previous 4 administrations.
I don’t know if Powell has the goods. She says her team will start making evidence available next week. Let’s see what they have.
In the meantime, I know two things:
That she succeeded where Michael Flynn’s big-name D.C. law firm failed and forced the DOJ to cough up exculpatory evidence, evidence that turned the case around and exposed the judge for the partisan hack that he is.
That she has put her career and perhaps her life on the line for us.
She’s a fighter. We need fighters. I sent her 501(c)(4) a check yesterday. Whether she’s got the goods or comes up short, she’ll need all the help she can get. Especially in the latter case.
Neo— re: the urge of many on the right to cut off Trump and his lawyers at the knees
We’ve seen it for four years. Has Kevin Williamson or David French or Jonah or George Will or Mirengoff made the slightest bit of sense when they attack Trump? Ultimately, NO. It seems as if they have no grasp of the basics of politics, power and reality. Their argument— sure the Democrats are lying, cheating, insane leftists whose vision will destroy America. But Trump is icky! And also yucky!
These sunshine conservatives would have condemned Churchill, Patton and Grant. They get excited by creased pants and the illusion of sophistication. Ultimately, their greatest fear is that a rabid, irrational Democrat might accuse them of supporting a conspiracy theory. Oh the horror.
I have to think that they desperately want to be seen as fair and balanced to the point of believing that splitting the baby is a fair way to resolve life altering disputes.
When his opponent, the referee and the judges are hitting your boxer with chairs and bats, criticizing him for a possible low blow is a leap down the rabbit hole.
Just saw this on twitter from someone Will Chamberlain retweeted:
“Why do so many conservatives believe they need external moral, intellectual, and cultural validation from liberals? Even from “reasonable liberals?” Liberals don’t suffer from this deficiency. No liberal ever says “I really hope that conservatives can vouch for my decency.”
The election was stolen, and a handful of judges should decide, as just happened in PA where a judge ruled against the Trump legal team’s effort?
Where are the American people, who are supposed to be the ultimate judges?
If one looks back at voting history, one sees that Democrats have successfully pushed for mail-in ballots, for motor-voter registration, for a long time. For the elderly, the disabled, those that cannot leave their jobs to vote on Election Day, blah, blah.
Net result is that envelopes (with signatures) containing signed ballots were discarded in the many millions, and proof of fraud is thus hard to come by in a “recount” which can no longer prove unmatched signatures.
Democrats worked long and hard for this seizure of America.
Historically there has never been GOP vote fraud, only and often Democratic. LBJ’s TX vote fraud got JFK elected; the difference was one vote per TX precinct, not hard to do.
It appears the Democrats will likely succeed in capturing the country forever. Unless Powell and Lin Wood succeed. In the court of law again. But we cannot trust judges or the legal process, not any more.
For gun owners, just remember the FBI clearing call done whenever a gun is purchased. The FBI knows where the guns are!
This isn’t my first conspiracy rodeo. Starting with the JFK assassination and various UFO theories, I’ve often breathlessly awaited the Real Soon Now Evidence which would Change Everything.
Some of these conspiracies turned out to be laughable, like “The Face on Mars.” Others like Watergate turned out to have definite substance. Still others like Roswell indicated that something was being concealed, though it was hard to say what.
These days I’m less excitable. I’m content to sift the evidence as it comes out and see how it goes. The unfortunate truth is that one must deal with the evidence on its merits, which is usually complicated and time-consuming, rather than take some authority’s word for it. Real conspiracies step on political toes.
I don’t know how Fraudgate turns out. There is no question there has been fraud, but how much and how provable is the rub.
I must say, though, that I’m not reassured by extreme statements like:
_____________________________________________
Joe Biden and the People Like Him Who Have Been Trying to Steal This Election – Will All Go to Jail…
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/huge-lin-wood-howie-carr-joe-biden-people-like-trying-steal-election-will-go-jail-video/
_____________________________________________
These are usually signs of panic that the evidence isn’t ready (and may never be). So I’m waiting to see what arrows the Trump people have in their quiver and hoping for the best.
To Harry and Tom don’t worry you will be respected in the morning because you have seen the evidence and you trust the Obama-appointed judge. Good to know. Wouldn’t want to let the process play out because you can’t handle the anxiety of a protracted fight. Best surrender now and hope (praying soon not allowed) for the best.
Harry and Tom:
Not Ben Shapiro but a thoughtful man nonetheless:
https://amgreatness.com/2020/11/21/waiting-for-sidney/
But then Tom knows the answer already and our credibility with the left is at stake.
Some other analysis regarding the Pennsylvania decision:
https://redstate.com/shipwreckedcrew/2020/11/22/the-situation-is-not-hopeless-in-pennsylvania-after-dismissal-of-the-case-filed-there-n283493
Will the SCOTUS choose to get involved?
They want it to give it to leftist lawfare so they can defend against it.
%%%I used to privately dismiss claims of a globalist conspiracy. I can no longer do so, however coordinated or amorphous it may be, there’s fire behind all that smoke*******
Stay tuned gb, i am wrecking it.
I agree with om s sentiments about tucker and mattis.
I add the hunter evidence given to carlson, lost, revovered. Wiped. Then dropped off show.
Are you allowing americans to float all these c theories, neo the gate keeper? Seems some conspiracists have breached your quarantine perimeter heh
Speaking of the JFK assassination, today is the 57th anniversary.
Not much coverage or new news on the subject. Someone claims to have debunked the assassination based on Oswald’s odd trip to Mexico City a few months before.
https://theconversation.com/jfk-conspiracy-theory-is-debunked-in-mexico-57-years-after-kennedy-assassination-148138
There wasn’t much conspiracy meat to that trip except that there wasn’t a satisfactory account of why Oswald was visiting the Soviet and Cuban embassies in Mexico City.
One’s mind could boggle over the possibility Oswald was getting last-minute instructions on killing JFK later. But who could know?
The main curiosity of that visit was that the CIA identified a stocky older man, obviously Not Oswald, as Oswald. The linked article mentions this in a caption but offers nothing to resolve the confusion.
I’m satisfied that Oswald acted alone and killed JFK because Vincent Bugliosi made it his life mission to demolish virtually every conspiracy theory out there in his magnum opus, “Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy.”
However, I don’t blame my younger self and anyone else who might have doubted the Warren Report. There was plenty of contradictory evidence lacking persuasive explanation and the standard response to the skeptics was loud harrumphing and ridicule.
Much like we see today.
My point is You Just Don’t Know based on the emotional noise around a conspiracy theory and the nature of those who take either side. You just have to dig in to the facts and do your honest best to figure it out.
Military tribunals and mass arrests. Q class is here.
om: “Wouldn’t want to let the process play out because you can’t handle the anxiety of a protracted fight.”
I’d be happy with a protracted fight as long as we’re being handed swords and brass knuckles instead of cheerleading pom-poms.
For chrissakes, Bring the kraken already.
“…that it was Russian disinformation…”
This seems to me one of those things destined to become a witty quip to any accusation.
“Me best friend told me the lies you’ve been spreading about me!!”
“That’s Russian disinformation.”
.
“I heard you and he were really close friends!”
“Oh, that’s Russian disinformation.”
.
“Mr. President, you have involved yourself in collusion with the Chinese”
“Oh, that’s Russian disinformation.”
.
“You were screwing around on me!!”
“That’s Russian disinformation.”
“I saw you in bed with her!!”
“Oh, that’s really Russian disinformation…”
😛
Pressed by Brann on Tuesday if he was actually alleging voter fraud, Giuliani acknowledged that he was not.
IANAL, but is “voter fraud” a legal term with a specific meaning as opposed to “electoral malfeasance” or some such? I can certainly see not alleging that any particular individuals cast illegal ballots, but that wouldn’t make any difference if the case is based on allegations that electoral officials committed misconduct.
FYI: Kraken is pronounced CRACK-en and is singular.
I thought it was plural like oxen and as in “release the hounds!”
It’s supposed to happen, or start to, this week.
Go lucky kraken!
A crucial point made in this thread:
https://twitter.com/RonColeman/status/1330535039105380353
Key point—which explains 1) why vote counting had to be stopped in the early morning of Nov. 4, and 2) why so many “printed ballots” (single entry—i.e., presidential candidate-only) had to be hastily transported to the balloting centers from outside orif:
“They had to stuff naked Biden ballots to match the electronic ghost votes they added through dominion. That’s why they stopped the count, because they did not have enough paper ballots in the to justify the votes added through Dominion.”
https://twitter.com/jmp2076/status/1330537488235061249
This corresponds to a tweet I saw but can’t find at the moment that the votes for Trump were so overwhelming that they “broke the Democrat-planned algorithm” so that the fake ballots that were anticipated in advance—i.e., that were “on hand” at the ballot-counting centers—were simply not enough (i.e., they couldn’t keep up with the need– i.e., couldn’t keep up with the “ghost votes” being churned out by the Dominion software).
(This is for anyone, such as myself, who wasn’t sure about the correlation between the fake printed ballots and the Dominion software shenanigans, IOW why there had to be both.)
huxley, the lucky Kraken!? sounds like something an enterprising Chinatown merchant could craft out of jade and sell as a neck ornament… provided the wearer is not mistaken for a Lovecraft fanatic, might be a reasonable line of business. 🙂
(A Scandinavian monster turning up in a B-movie about a hero from Greek mythology… it was a favorite of mine when I was young, I admit.)
Barry – that’s very interesting, thanks for that point. It does explain something.
Correction: “orif” (above) should be “origin”
Once again, if the courts rule in favor of the gravest fraudulent theft in history, the rule of law will have become a dead letter and the globalist democrats will have established beyond dispute that “might makes right”.
That sh*t can work in a disarmed Europe and in oligarchic South American societies and even in liberal urban cities but anyone who thinks that half the country is going to allow their guns to be confiscated is entertaining a fantasy. All it will do is make criminals into half of America.
What the left forgets is that law abiding citizens will not accept being made into criminals. But they will accept that the law abiding are the only non-criminals left. Once that consensus emerges, “katie bar the door!”
Uh oh…
Something serious has happened vis-a-vis Sidney Powell:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/11/22/trump-legal-team-distances-from-sidney-powell/
https://twitter.com/JonathanTurley/status/1330646395469049857
Will have to see how this plays out.
Always thought (speculation alert 1) that maybe Powell might be “played” by those she trusted to provide evidence on Dominion/Democratic Party malfeasance.
On the other hand (speculation alert 2), this development may merely be the result of a decision made that there is simply not enough time to go through with this “discovery”—and proof—of (Dominion) malfeasance and conspiracy but instead to rely on the Supreme Court route, as described by Dershowitz:
https://www.theepochtimes.com/alan-dershowitz-trump-has-still-several-constitutional-paths-to-victory_3588970.html
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/alan-dershowitz-says-trump-has-chance-prevail-constitutional-legal
Certainly an awkward development in many ways.
So . . . Rudy Giuliani announced this evening that Sidney Powell is practicing law on her own and is not the president’s lawyer. WTH?
@mollyg WTH indeed??!! Again, unless she has had a silent infarct obfuscating her judgement hard for me not to stand firm in my belief of this women’s actions/motives. I trust her more than Giuliani. We will see
Related:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-campaign-clarifies-sidney-powell-isnt-legal-team
Judging from the final line of the linked-to article, maybe the perception is that she’s been putting herself a bit too much in the spotlight? (That would be speculation alert 3.)
(I would imagine that the Tucker Carlson interview also did not help matters any…)
The Trump Legal Team has just divorced Sidney Powell.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/11/22/trump-legal-team-distances-from-sidney-powell/
Also, Robert Barnes is on with his weekly podcast with Viva Frei. Haven’t listened yet, here’s the link. Usually a good source of accurate on-the-street insider information on the election disputes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYJUjkpjZbo&feature=emb_logo
Re: Lucky Kraken…
Philip Sells: An intelligent writer appreciates an intelligent reader … and writer!
A must: Robert Barnes –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYJUjkpjZbo&feature=youtu.be
Got to hear Barnes here…
}}} The fraud is beyond massive and undeniably obvious. They imagine that 75-80 million patriotic Americans are sheep that will go quietly into enslavement. They mistake law abiding citizens seeking redress of grievance for acquiescence.
I think the flip side of that, that 75-80m voters are all so brain-dead as to find “Orange Man Bad” more important than the Hunter Biden laptop along with all the rest — that “OMB” outweighed the opposition being a racist, plagiarist, extortionist, kleptocratic, rapist, senile pedophile…
Sure — probably half of those were liberal parrots voting as they’d been told. But we’re now looking at not only idiot liberal parrots but substantial numbers of people who were essentially republicans who voted against Trump. I agree there are quite a number of Never-Trumpers out there, but 30-40 MILLION of them?
“Things that make you go, ‘Hmmmmm….’ “, indeed.
That’s pretty much the theme song for this election.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oivnDHKi-zw
Well, my sister and niece have flown back to Boston. While they were here, I drove them to Colorado so we could dine inside restaurants as God intended and see Garden of the Gods, which was indeed spectacular.
Now that I have some time, I’m going to utilize my mad programming skillz to dig into the election night data mentioned in my comment here:
https://www.thenewneo.com/2020/11/12/update-on-election-fraud-allegations/#comment-2524625
Wish me luck!
If Giuliani, Powell and Ellis is the best you got then the legal challenge is done.
Powell is a liability because her conspiracy theories are really way out. She claimed earlier today that she the GA legal challenge will be ‘Biblical’ and now it’s been announced she is not part of the team – even though days ago she was hailed as part of the ‘elite strike force team.’
Good entertainment…
Montage: It’s not over until the operatic female of generous proportions vocalizes!
Montage:
Cogitate on this:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-election-lawsuit-idUSKBN2820Q
As analyzed by Viva Frei and Barnes as noted above by Aggie, the PA judge blew it but this allowed a quick step closer to the SCOTUS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYJUjkpjZbo&feature=emb_logo
Robert Barnes speculates that Sidney Powell got suckered by a Dem disinformation ploy.
What is you specific complaint about Jenna Ellis? Not that she isn’t a prog/leftist or that she is a woman, be a mature adult.
Scott Adams, in today’s podcast, makes the argument that Trump is waging the fraud campaign on two fronts — public opinion and legal.
https://www.scottadamssays.com/2020/11/22/episode-1195-scott-adams-i-tell-you-who-is-being-most-gullible-show-you-some-nuclear-persuasion-and-predict/
Thus, the early lawsuits, however weak, were intended to keep the issue alive in the public’s mind. It seems to be working insofar as about half the country when polled believes the election was stolen — including 30% of Democrats!
I presume Montage will concede that the MSM and social media are working overtime to suppress the fraud stories. Or perhaps he’s not that honest.
The dismissals of those early suits, which Montage loves to cite, do not prove that future lawsuits will likewise fail. That’s the legal front.
We shall see…
Of course, the biggest reason people suspect the election was stolen was commonsense.
How does such a weak candidate with a history of corruption plus possible mental incapacity, whom no one seems excited by, and who campaigned mostly from his basement with a few personal appearances barely attended, manage to achieve the highest vote total in US history — about 15% more than Obama received in his spectacular 2008 campaign?
Which is not to say it’s impossible. Maybe the combination of Trump hatred and extended voting opportunities was enough. But it sure does smell funny.
Plus, whether Montage likes it or not, it is Democrats who have an earned reputation for vote fraud, not Republicans.
Huxley
The operatic female is warming up.
Sure, future lawsuits might prevail but if you read Andrew McCarthy over at National Review you would agree they likely won’t and aren’t working for a reason – and it’s not because judges are biased against anything except maybe bad legal arguments.
Om
Ellis once hated Trump so much she said nastier things about him and his supporters than I would say. It shows she has extreme views either way and any good lawyer I know tends to be more grounded.
She called Trump “unethical, corrupt, lying, criminal, dirtbag.” And tweeted, “his supporters DON’T CARE about facts or logic. They aren’t seeking truth…. We don’t have truth seekers; we have narcissists.”
What changed her mind? A good paycheck perhaps?
if you read Andrew McCarthy over at National Review you would agree …
Montage: Never, ever presume to speak for me.
Yes, I’m aware National Review has gone skeptic on this stuff. I’m not all in myself, if you peruse my comments in this topic.
Nonetheless, National Review has been wrong before. Likewise Andrew McCarthy. Not to mention some bloke who calls himself Montage…
Montage:
I already knew Ellis was not a Trump supporter in 2016, so you point is what? That you are a better person that she is? I don’t know all the things you have said and really don’t want to know more (TMI thing). I also don’t know if you know any good lawyers either; what you consider good is a whole ‘nother matter as well.
I’ve heard her interviewed by Andrew Klavan many many times in the last 3 years and your perceptions of her character don’t match those data points. Sorry Montage, character assessment is not your strong suit. Character assassination, well you do seem to prefer that tactic.
What changed her mind? Maybe seeing the progressive leftist actions since the 2016 election does tend to focus a person’s thoughts about the nature of evil (that would be your camp).
But then again Hillary will never be your president.
Enjoy your lockdown while Emperor Nuissance parties on! Is he invited to any of your Thanksgiving or Christmas gatherings, or just one of his minders?
Warning: sexual perversion vulgarity ahead. Worse than that a low culture reference ahead to a perversity which none here are guilty of, or even thought existed until we heard the term and then recoiled in disgust
… which, the disgust factor, is why I am about to label some folks with the reference. Here goes:
I wonder … what the hell good it is that excitable conservative tweet meisters think they are doing by gd dmnd circle jerking to rumors they are passing around to each other.
Is employment so difficult to come by for frustrated fantasists, and material so lacking to flesh put their content that they have to throw out any damn thing they can sift from the Internet which they can then tout as, almost, sort of, kinda their nearly own “precious”?
An example. “Hubert on”, provides a perfectly reasonable point to a site called Meaning in History, regarding that so-called “Frankfurt Raid”. Note that the update listed was November 21.
However, turns out the site owner of Meaning in History, is actually citing and then padding out some author named Adam Housley on Twitter, to whom Meaning in History links to through a threadreader app, not, Housley’s own Twitter account.
So who is Adam Housley? Who the hell knows. Former baseball player, he says, former news anchor somewhere unnamed he says, something else about a family too, and … someone with an “affinity” he says for FBI field agents.
Well, slap my knee and shout “Here’s the promised land!!!” … how is that for impeccable effen credentials!!! You can certainly trust Adam! He likes FBI guys!
Oh wait … from 10 hours ago, from Adam’s actual Twitter feed.
So nice work “Meaning in History” . Guess you got some mileage out of that one. Oh and “in case anyone is interested”, you say, you have worked up a little fantasy … er … scenario to go along with the tweet you pulled from threadreader?
Oh sure, share please …
Yeah … ok. Ok. Ok.. Enough. Go away and f##k off now, you hyperventilating worthless-as-a-researcher twit.
Whose side are you on?
You wasted Hubert’s time, my time, and drained energy from everyone who even contemplated trusting that you knew what you were talking about for one solitary moment.
Your grade in historiography 101 this term: FAIL. Fail, with prejudice. Expulsion from school altogether. Do not apply for re-admission.
DNW: I didn’t entirely follow your voyage of discovery, but it does bear out my reluctance to bother with YouTubes, tweets, and obscure blogs, when it comes to this issue.
I’m waiting for it to reach, say, Instapundit’s text feed. There are hundreds, possibly thousands of people, sending recommendations to Insty each day. (Including moi on occasion.) Thus, Insty filters out a lot of noise before it reaches his listing.
On the side note of JFK, the only actually valid-seeming CT I can see is an assertion (forgot who made it, but I think it was in a book, which I did not read, but heard about) that it was actually one of his Secret Service men, who slipped, tripped, or otherwise had a negligent discharge, who may have fired one or more of the shots that killed Kennedy.
This one fits the human-level requirements for a CT — in that, it would be astoundingly demoralizing for this to have happened, and thus the SS and others would willingly work together to hide such a personal failure-fact, and those involved in hiding it might choose to keep their mouths shut indefinitely regarding it (“Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead…”) for much the same reason.
Not claiming even the vaguest degree of proof, not having read the book, but I can at least see this as being a possible explanation for the various questionable elements of any CT surrounding JFK’s death… Oswald is still there, Oswald can be a ridiculously bad shot, the Zapruder-mandated timing does not matter, Oswald triggered what followed, and so forth. Plus it justifies (on that human level) a cover-up on the part of Those In The Know, without it really being a Evil Cabal out to assassinate JFK.
OBloodyHell: Bugliosi has got you covered on pp.925-929 of “Reclaiming History.” One-stop-shopping.
That’s Howard Donahue’s theory in the book “Mortal Error” by Bonar Menninger. The main problems are that the agent’s accidental shot would have to fulfill the delicate requirements of Oswald’s final shot to create the head wound plus it would have to match the timing of that shot closely. It also leaves Oswald’s third shell casing in the sniper’s lair unexplained.
Here’s a Spectator article which matches my position:
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If Trump’s lawyers do have convincing evidence of a large-scale, coordinated effort to steal the presidential election, they have uncovered one of the greatest political crimes in our country’s history.
If not, they are doing the country great harm by tossing out grave, unsupported accusations. They need to present compelling evidence to the courts and do it quickly. They need to show that the errors are so widespread that they undermine the election results and require drastic remedies. The public needs to see that evidence, too, since this issue doesn’t just involve judges. It involves all of us.
We’ve heard enough rumors and conspiracy theories. We’ve heard enough opening arguments. Now’s the time, as they said in those Westerns, to back ’em up or shut ’em up’.
–Charles Lipson, “Are Trump’s lawyers big enough to back their claims up?”
https://spectator.us/trumps-lawyers-big-enough-back-their-claims-up/
Why are people talking about these conspiracy theories as if it is true or in Leftists cases, that they are so credible that they need to be debunked, suppressed, deleted, or counter argued?
It’s like they are approaching the Apocalypse or something…
If humanity is approaching the apocalypse, what do people think is a good use of their time, arguing against the Ymars online like Rudy and Sidney, or deleting/suppressing them by calling their style “no evidence” or “insulting”?
America is under Trump after all. Do people find it surprising that the style in vogue is offense first?
You wasted Hubert’s time, my time, and drained energy from everyone who even contemplated trusting that you knew what you were talking about for one solitary moment.
Ymar’s prophecies and predictions are pretty accurate, I have found, if rather vague time wise and compliant with the Law of Confusion. Recent analysis pre and post election have had more specific dates, up to the day it happens.
For chrissakes, Bring the kraken already.
We get it, Harry. We get it. No need to spam call the God line on this, we are working on it.
November isn’t over until you are almost dying from over eating turkey and 11:59 PM.
There are a number of Ymar type “fail safes” and quivers here. People seem to think the electors voting in December is the deadline. No, the deadline is actually January 20th 2021, because it’s feasible to declare the entire election invalid, invalidating all state results, forcing the Legislature to pick 50 delegates, and the states have 1 delegate. They all vote for Trump or B.
And of course, if even that fails… then military tribunals can easily arrest everyone involved. Even if it means Trump self implodes, he will do it if that is what it takes. This is what they were waiting for. If Trump has to sacrifice himself to ensure future elections are fine, he’ll give the victory to Kama, as little as it will last.
The American people will backstab another Churchill, string up a Son of God, in this case the Trump effigy, backstabbing the “sacrificial goat” instead of atoning for their own American mistakes and guilt, but that is what Trump signed up for. It’s why he doesn’t want to be President.
I… have canceled his option there.
Two points:
1) It may be time to adopt the Zen philosophy of “this glass is already broken” when it comes to Biden policy implementations. Assume this is already done and act accordingly. For example, lose your firearms in a “boating accident” now. Don’t wait for January.
2) Voter fraud claims need to be pursued. My best guess as to where it leads: strong enough evidence for multiple fraud convictions, perhaps even of members of the political class. However, the amount of evidence required and the level of detail in order to overturn the election results is such that I see no way to overturn the outcome. No judge in his right mind can simply claim x number of votes need to be overturned. Whose votes? How do you determine which voters votes don’t count? Without actual fraudulent ballots to review and eliminate I’m afraid no court of law will be overturning anything.
As I understand Robert Barnes, it may be enough to demonstrate that the results cannot be ascertained with any honest certainty.
I don’t know if this means that the electors, citing their doubt, can decide to withhold their votes or not, or if this doubt can serve as a basis for deciding to award their votes to whichever party they wish.
The notion that Trump’s challenges could harm the country may be the most ridiculous, most stupid, most ignorant argument I’ve heard in years. It ignores the essential truth of the claims and ignores everything that Democrats have done for the last 25 years.
We are in a war. Wars are messy. I’m sorry if the thought of a bit of dust on someone’s shiny shoes might bother them, but if they were to actually try to venture out in the real world to try to make a difference, they’d find themselves waist deep in a septic tank.
1) It is a fact that Democrats commit election fraud every election and have for decades. It is a fact that the fraud this time was the worst ever. FACT. By scientific inference more solid than all the science that will be published in peer-reviewed scientific journals this year. I repeat, a proven FACT.
2) Getting a detail wrong here or there will not get the essential message wrong.
3) Democrats have pushed outright lies and slanders — including claims of treason by the president — that have done enormous, irreparable damage. Simply making an adequate list of all the Left’s lies and corruption would take weeks.
DNW,
Sorry for the delay in responding. I turned in early last night.
I linked to Wauck’s blog because the subject of the (again, alleged) Frankfurt operation came up on this thread. Wauck has been trying to ascertain (a) whether it happened at all, (b) what exactly happened, and (c) who exactly was involved. IOW, he has been trying to do the job that reporters should be doing. He claims to be in touch with informed sources (not Housley) and seems to have satisfied himself that an operation did in fact occur. He is now speculating about the what, the who, and the how. That bothers me less than it does you, but I don’t want to add to the fog of possible misinformation/disinformation. No more links.
Huxley mentioned Instapundit. Reynolds kicked off this morning’s edition by linking to two pieces on electronic voting machines: an NBC News report on ES&S from 2019 (quoting then-concerned Democrats), and an opinion piece on Dominion by Roger Kimball today in The Epoch Times.
Lot of flak around Powell. Barnes was especially dismissive in a she’s-a-good-little-lawyer-but-way-out-of-her-depth kind of way (he also implied that Lin Wood has gone off the deep end). He may turn out to be right. We’ll see what she has when she files.
Finally, Reynolds: “And it doesn’t help that the press is more interested in maintaining and policing narratives — even when they shift 180 degrees overnight — than in reporting facts.” Indeed.
I tend to agree in broad outline, but unless he views them as synonymous, the author’s rhetoric of harm to “the county” – as opposed say the cause of liberty – is kind of … empty.
This, because the country of course is being, has been, and will be done even greater -as a constitutional rule of law polity – harm by decades of intentional leftist social and cultural subversion which will not only amplify to a roaring crecendo in a Biden administration, but possibly climax with the destruction of our separation of powers and the rule of law system, for all intents and purposes.
So, once freedom and property are no longer secure, and law is emanating in the form of unlimited diktat, what one might mean as some form of superadditive harm, possibly taking the form of a posit of further institutional erosion … of what the Demos have been busily, publicly, and proudly corroding with their ideological acids and moral subversion for years, is almost comical.
The path forward within the system for Republicans was clear in this year of uncertain ballot box integrity: refuse to certify. No Kracken required.
The Wayne County, Michigan, Republican canvassers had grounds to refuse to certify. They initially balked. But facing personal blowback, and relying on a hollow promise immediately revoked, they certified. And then tried to recind their certification.
So, essentially, they, the Republicans, did what they knew was wrong because they were called nasty words and threatened. They certified as conforming to law, an election that did not conform, in return for a promise of investigation that was almost immediately revoked. But that promise, and its acceptance were already corrupt.
Either the results were certifiable or not. What the Republicans did under social pressure was to go along with the irregularities by certifying the uncertifiable. They ostensibly did this in the wan hope that their political adversaries, the very ones responsible for tne irregularities in the first place, would look into it. And of course they got robbed a second time: of the promise as well as tbe votes. Har dee ha har.
But you know, we are all Americans or some nonsensical shit like that. ‘And isn’t unity as serviles better than being called names and hated?’
No.
This, is the lack of Republican backbone in the face of social dust ups, even when they have the rules on their side, that typifies the party. It is what got Trump elected in the first place.
It shows what freedom and principle mean to most of those who make any noise about it at all. It’s just kind of a preference, to be defended if you are not called names, or a social break by those who are enemies of it, is not threatened.
But when that happens, even if you have the letter of the law on your side, you speed dial your lawyer, or accept a corrupt reassurance that the buggery will be short in duration, and fall to tne floor and surrender. Yeah, that’s the program. Just ask “Mark”, the church going conservative witch hunter who was preaching up a storm here just recently.
Wow! What a difference a weekend makes.
I think Robert Barnes makes sense. A central concern is signature verification integrity, and that’s one of Trump’s best attacks, since it’s the point at which if invalid ballots get accepted, you can recount forever and the results will remain the same.
Here in my home state, Washington, that has used mail in ballots for over a decade, it’s the weak link in the voter integrity.
The signature on the envelope is compared to a signature on file (either voter registration card or driver license signature). Each envelope includes a bar code which links to the digital signature on file which makes the process efficient.
But it’s still the weak link. The only check to the signature authenticity is a online streaming feed while the election officials are doing their checks. But that doesn’t mean the person is allowing invalid ballots through, since you can’t actually see the signatures and there are no party advocates checking the process.
As a local election official said, we need to trust the integrity of the people doing that job! I may trust my local, solidly conservative election officials, but I certainly don’t trust those leftists on the west side of the state.
If, in fact, states where they didn’t verify the signature, has laws requiring it, that seems to be a solid case to cast doubt on the election in that state.
As to Powell’s apocalyptic assertion that Dominion machines can manufacture votes at will, the Trump team distanced themselves, but possibly too late. This whole Qanon narrative is damaging to the case.
Qanon hasn’t been very reliable since it started in 2016.