Impeachment thread
I’m not planning to write specifically about impeachment today.
But since you might want to discuss the topic, here’s a thread for that.
The New Neo
A blog about political change, among other things
I’m not planning to write specifically about impeachment today.
But since you might want to discuss the topic, here’s a thread for that.
I have not heard one conversation about this in real life. And I live in deep blue country full of Trump haters.
A couple of our Facebook circle have been posting. Both of them loathe Trump and have had manic posting binges now and again. It’s all motivated reasoning with the both of them. (One of them was quite insistent about Brett Kavanaugh. That he chowed down on that sh!t sandwich should tell you something about his judgment).
I saw Jim Jordan’s testimony at a PJM post today. He did what so far hasn’t been done: gave timelines and perspective. The trash that Schiff has been throwing out is intended to confuse people. We need more perspective.
Did you not weep for the dead Ukrainians expat, made dead by BadOrangeMan withholding military aid? ‘Cause by God the Democrats and their witnesses sure did. And quail in fear at the harms OrangeBadMan did to US national security in this? ‘Cause SpeaGunnerKer Nan sure is. We will never recover from these durty deeds of ManBadOrange, never. Horrors. He must go before we all die.
Didn’t waste any of my time to watch the Democrat’s vaudeville routine, but I did happen to see a clip of a Democrat member of the Committee, Mike Quigley, D-Il., saying that, “hearsay information can be much better evidence than direct evidence.”
I’d imagine the this clip will make a great campaign ad for his opponent when Mr Quigley is up for reelection, and if I were putting together this ad I’d probably picture Quigley wearing a dunce cap.
See https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/11/top-democrat-on-schiffs-show-trial-committee-tells-audience-hearsay-can-be-better-evidence-than-direct-video/
If you read The Hill, you get a real flavor of the extreme of the left and the lefts position, even more so if you read their facebook… wow… they do NOT look at anything, but comment only that their side is true, black and white, like that education thing i posted.
and now the federalist is catching up to what i said before – its about who makes foreign policy, something that is a presidential power, but in socialist states, the hidden supreme soviet (supreme council)..
This Impeachment Inquiry Is Really About Who Sets U.S. Foreign Policy
If Trump thinks it’s in the national interest to root out corruption in Ukraine and get to the bottom of 2016 election meddling, that’s his prerogative.
Also
Gateway pundit has information on Burisma, which is basically the payment records that now would implicate Kerry family…
Snow on Pine on November 14, 2019 at 4:04 pm said:
Didn’t waste any of my time to watch the Democrat’s vaudeville routine, but I did happen to see a clip of a Democrat member of the Committee, Mike Quigley, D-Il., saying that, “hearsay information can be much better evidence than direct evidence.”
he is referring to the legal thing i was trying to discuss about the wow hearsay that is and has been linked to use in harassment and whistleblower in court.. the hearsay as evidence was a big thing when it changed things as well as the justification of the reasonable victim standard… the whistleblower was a victim of the phone call information, and so, the hearsay becomes admissible..
basically, they are stretching the laws literal definition ignoring spirit… i cited the case law and more, so you can look at that thread if its still there.
HUGE! EXCLUSIVE BOMBSHELL: Documents Released by Ukrainian General Prosecutor’s Office Reveal MILLIONS Funneled to Hunter Biden and the John Kerry Family
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/11/huge-exclusive-bombshell-documents-released-by-ukrainian-general-prosecutors-office-reveal-millions-funneled-to-hunter-biden-and-the-john-kerry-family/
Given the sources, its going to be denied outright by some, and others as fabricated, and others as real – let the popcorn games begin!
We also have Pelosi on video saying that President Trump does not have the “presumption of innocence” which each one of us is supposed to have under our Legal system–a presumption which is one of its key and remarkable differences from other legal systems, all around the world–and which is one of the major features which guarantee our freedom, and makes us free–but, rather, that the President has to present the Committee with “proof of his innocence.”
Ask yourself, if someone who–for some reason–didn’t like you, decided to make some accusation against you, and said that you had committed some crime, what would it take for you, if you were, from the get go, “presumed to be guilty,” to “prove that you were innocent.”
How many weeks or even months would you have to work to “prove your innocence,” how many people would you have to interview, persuade to testify in your behalf, to get notarized statements from, and get to take off work to testify in your behalf, how many surveillance tapes, how many documents would you have to find and get notarized, how many tens of or hundreds of thousands of dollars would you have to pay lawyers to defend you?
Do you want to live in a world in which you are presumed guilty and not innocent, one in which “hearsay information” is better than “direct evidence.”
That is the nightmare world that the Left and Democrats are trying to create, and to shove us in to.
The quote from Levrentiy Beria, Stalin’s Chief of his Secret Police, is much seen these days, and its sudden appearance is because it describes the techniques that the Left and Democrats are employing so well–
“Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.”
See https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/11/pelosi-says-president-trump-has-to-show-the-impeachment-committee-proof-of-innocence-video/
Presumed guilty until you can prove your innocence is the Napoleanic Code which is the foundation law in Mexico. Be very careful there.
Glad to see the corruption & bribery documents of US members on foreign corrupt company boards of directors, like Artfldgr listed.
The impeachment hearing makes it more likely that Trump gets re-elected.
Instead of being a diversion from upcoming indictments (I’ll really only believe these when I see them), the increasing evidence of Burisma’s bribery payments to H. Biden makes it a bit more likely that Barr – Durham actually go for indictments.
The full quote on hearsay:
QUIGLEY: And I guess to close primer on hearsay, I think the American public needs to be reminded that countless people have been convicted on hearsay because the courts have routinely allowed and created needed exceptions to hearsay. Hearsay can be much better evidence than direct, as we have learned in painful instances and it’s certainly valid in this instance.
UNKNOWN: Would the gentleman yield? Because none of those exceptions would apply to this testimony.
Ann:
That’s the first time I’ve ever heard someone claim hearsay can be better than direct. Sometimes hearsay is allowed, of course, but only in certain specific and limited circumstances.
“Hearsay can be much better evidence than direct, as we have learned in painful instances and it’s certainly valid in this instance.”
Wow. Kind of like how spectral evidence was much better evidence than direct, when your main goal was convicting witches.
These people seriously need to be shut down, or exposed in a way that makes the general public realize how horrific and repugnant their ideas are … or should be.
If you want a treat, check out David French’s Twitter feed.
The best recent tweet, however, had nothing to do with impeachment. It was French retweeting someone else’s pro-life statement. This from the guy who wanted Hillary Clinton to name Antonin Scalia’s replacement on the Supreme Court and thereby guarantee Roe v. Wade remains the law of the land, probably forever.
David French claims to be pro-life yet the fact that Donald Trump has done more for the pro-life movement than any President EVER is something he won’t even acknowledge. That’s how much this is really about principle.
Mike
Some interesting comments about how Trumpiphobia may be waning and how the Democrats in Congress may be leading a charge that no one is following…
I have a friend who was rabidly anti-Trump. He could be counted on for two or three s**t posts on Facebook a week about “orange man bad”. He went silent on the subject about the time the Mueller Report came out. He is a lawyer, so he could see that there was no there there.
Here in my liberal bubble, someone wore a big red impeach pin, as a conversation starter, to a local gathering. Notably, she had to keep pointing it out to start the conversation, which got a few right ons, off with his head, and then the topic fizzled out.
Or maybe she kept losing her audience waxing on about the good old days, campaigning with grassroots feminist socialist workers collectives in the 1960’s against the toxic patriarchy of the Democratic Party machine. I practically nodded off just writing that sentence.
Snow’s link to Gateway Pundit has this comment, which pretty much sums it up:
ComradeAdam Chris Kyle MAG ?? • 11 hours ago
So Trump has to prove his innocence, but isn’t allowed to call his own witnesses or to present evidence? LOL yeah that sounds fair.
Surely the honorable member (though surely not the only honorable member) meant to say,
“Hearsay—if it comes from Democrats—can be much better evidence than direct…”
(Come to think of it, he was probably misquoted by the Republican-owned MSM. Or quoted out of context.)
If they’re going to impeach him anyway, why not do it for something that makes Trump obviously different from any other president? Call his sometimes vulgar and profane tweets a misdemeanor, as in “high crimes and misdemeanors”, and say that they are grounds for removing him from office. You could say that, intellectually speaking, it was like the president walking around not wearing any clothes — not the sort of thing you ever want to see happening. When the charge reaches the senate, it would make all the senators (republicans as well as democrats) think about whether it is fitting. I think the upshot would still be, let the voters decide, but at least it would be an honest cop about why so many people dislike Trump.
Call his sometimes vulgar and profane tweets a misdemeanor, as in “high crimes and misdemeanors”
Great joke D. Cohen, though we can’t be certain the Democrats would pick up on it right away. Still, impeaching the guy for practicing his first amendment free speech rights sure can count as hilarious in any ordinary context. Something that could have been used in a tv comedy skit thirty years ago, say.
The full quote on hearsay:
Mr. Quigley supposedly had a solo law practice from 1990 to 199?. Searching Justia, I find one piece of case law consequent to an appeal that he filed. The case was decided 26 years ago. Guy hasn’t been cracking law books in a while.
Hokey smoke Bulwinkle, those are some awesome powers of prognostications yez gots there D. Cohen! To wit:
Mollie @MZHemingway tweets responding to Brett Baier:
and Baier’s tweet to which Hemingway responded:
D. Cohen on November 15, 2019 at 7:05 am said: Call his sometimes vulgar and profane tweets a misdemeanor, as in “high crimes and misdemeanors”, and say that they are grounds for removing him from office. You could say that, intellectually speaking, it was like the president walking around not wearing any clothes — not the sort of thing you ever want to see happening.
Not going to work, as that shows the common ignorance of actual past presidents vs our imaginations from TV, movie and other media..
here is LBJ talking about his Bunghole
LBJ’s Bunghole Needs Room!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=67&v=S3GT9UN7nDo&feature=emb_logo
D. Cohen
As if that wasn’t bad enough, and you wish to say, well, in the past we were nicer..
Adams had a special expression that he came up with for Hamilton: “bastard brat of a Scotch pedler.”
in 1855, Kenneth Rayner (a former Congressman from North Carolina) gave a speech in which he referred to President Franklin Pierce as one such creature:
“The minions of power are watching you, to be turned out by the pimp of the White House if you refuse to sustain him. A man sunk so low we can hardly hate. We have nothing but disgust, pity, and contempt.”
—The Weekly Standard [Raleigh, NC], 4 July 1855
Some of the insults that had been lobbed Lincoln’s way: “Filthy story-teller, Ignoramus Abe, Despot, Old scoundrel, big secessionist, perjurer, liar, robber, thief, swindler, braggart, tyrant, buffoon, fiend, usurper, butcher, monster, land-pirate, a long, lean, lank, lantern-jawed, high-cheeked-boned, spavined, rail-splitting stallion.”
The Cincinnati Gazette was reported to have published, in 1828, an article which alleged this very thing.
“General Jackson’s mother was a common prostitute, brought to this country by the British soldiers! She afterwards married a mulatto man, with whom she had several children, of which number General Jackson is one!”
Jefferson allegedly hired the journalist James Thomson Callender to write unpleasant things about his opponent. Callender set to his task with gusto, and published an attack on Adams which stated that he was “a hideous hermaphroditical character which has neither the force and firmness of a man, not the gentleness and sensibility of a woman.”
the people of the past were much more crude than anything trump has ever done in public, and some of them are heroes of the founding…
And now we get the enlightening moment where the same people telling us impeachment is a political and a legal act are now accusing President Trump of OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE for tweeting insulting things about a hearing witness.
Mike
And now we get the enlightening moment where the same people telling us impeachment is a political and a legal act are now accusing President Trump of OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE for tweeting insulting things about a hearing witness.
Andrew Weissman wanted to use that particular gambit.
Is Yovanovitch apolitical. non-partisan, and not a never-Trumper? Gimme a break. Trump fired and insulted her. She doesn’t want payback? Also, her positive outgoing responses to Dems compared to her combative,halting responses to Repubs says it all.
WOW, anyone catch Schiff shutting down Stefanik? The guy is a total a-hole. And scary too…look at his face and body language as he does the shutdown:
https://youtu.be/CNRcieqljBg
What I can’t understand is how much longer the Republicans put up with this.
“What I can’t understand is how much longer the Republicans put up with this.”
Given that they’re the minority, and the restrictions that have been put on them because they’re in the minority…what can they do?
I’ve watched all of this show. I haven’t heard anything but “concern this concern that” from the first two witnesses and all I heard today was … how dare Trump remove me from my post (she hasn’t even been fired from her cushy job)!
Well with this testimony so far I or anyone that’s been following this could have been as much of a witness as these people?
In the days to come if Shiff doesn’t call anyone that was actually in the room the day of the call … it should be game over in the senate even if they do get the votes to impeach. And the first thing the senate should do is charge Shiff for perjury (with his I don’t know the whistleblower crap if that is possible).
“Gimme a break. Trump fired and insulted her.” My understanding is that she was removed from her post as ambassador. She is still a state dept employee. Am I wrong?
https://www.npr.org/2019/11/14/779318947/yovanovitch-ex-ambassador-to-ukraine-will-testify-in-trump-impeachment-hearings
“Former U.S. diplomats have been outraged by the treatment of Yovanovitch, who is still a State Department employee.”
physicsguy on November 15, 2019 at 2:00 pm said:
WOW, anyone catch Schiff shutting down Stefanik? The guy is a total a-hole. And scary too…look at his face and body language as he does the shutdown:
https://youtu.be/CNRcieqljBg
What I can’t understand is how much longer the Republicans put up with this.
* * *
https://www.redstate.com/streiff/2019/11/15/jim-jordan-reveals-ambassador-yovanovitch-partisan-hack-gets-good-shot-adam-schiff-process/