Sorry, but I don’t think I say “sorry” too much
What’s more, I don’t think I’ve ever personally known anyone who does.
Unlike this professor, who seems to think too many people (that is, too many women in particular) say “sorry” far too often. And she’s definitely not talking about the one exception that comes to my mind—the mea culpas of those attacked by the online SJW crowd:
Canadian sociologist Maja Jovanovic believes the “sorry”s we sprinkle through our days hurt us. They make us appear smaller and more timid than we really are, and they can undercut our confidence.
Jovanovic, who teaches at McMaster University and Mohawk College in Hamilton, Ontario, became interested in this topic when she attended a conference four years ago. The four women on a panel were, she says, “experts in their chosen fields. Among them, they had published hundreds of academic articles, dozens of books. All they had to do was introduce themselves. The first woman takes a microphone and she goes, ‘I don’t know what I could possibly add to this discussion’ … The second woman takes the microphone and says, ‘Oh my gosh, I thought they sent the email to the wrong person. I’m just so humbled to be here.’” The third and fourth women did the same thing…
Jovanovic found the outside world not so different: “Apologies have become our habitual way of communicating,” she says. Since then, she’s collected needless apologies from her colleagues and students. One stand-out? “My research assistant said ‘Sorry’ to the pizza delivery guy for his being late to her house,” says Jovanovic. “She said, ‘Oh my gosh, we live in a new subdevelopment. I’m so sorry. Did you have trouble finding this place?’”
We can eliminate the “sorry”s from our sentences — and still be considerate. “The next time you bump into someone,” Jovanovic says, “you could say, ‘Go ahead,’ ‘After you’ or ‘Pardon me.’” Similarly, during a meeting, Jovanovic says, “instead of saying, ‘Sorry to interrupt you,’ why not try ‘How about,’ ‘I have an idea,’ ‘I’d like to add’ or ‘Why don’t we try this.’” The idea is to be polite while not minimizing yourself.
I’m not the least bit sorry to say that I beg to differ. Did I say “beg”? No, I demand to differ. To lump together the obligatory polite and perfectly acceptable “sorry” with the stupidly self-deprecating foot-shuffling-hat-in-hand “sorry,” and to ignore the fact that we have too few real and sincere apologies for actual wrongdoing and too many fake apologies with the word “if,” in them, as well as too many show-trial-Twitter-mob-induced mea culpas for nothing, is to make a terrible muddle of this topic.
Perhaps it’s significant that Jovanovic is a Canadian. I’ve heard they are more polite than Americans, and perhaps “sorry” is more ubiquitous there.
Oh, and while I’m at it, I might as well mention that the old quote from Love Story, “love is never having to say you’re sorry,” is garbage. Au contraire. A good apology can really clear the air, if a person has done something wrong. It doesn’t solve everything, depending on the magnitude of the offense. But it’s unreasonable to imagine that anyone in a marriage will ever be perfect, and just owning up to it in a timely and sincere fashion goes a long long way towards repairing any damage.
Excellent points.
“Perhaps it’s significant that Jovanovic is a Canadian. I’ve heard they are more polite than Americans …”
No the ones I’ve known.
It’s just silly to criticize commonplace polite phrases. And what’s the difference between “I’m sorry” and “Pardon me?”
You’re right about the public “apologies” that people keep making as demanded by “social justice” fanatics today. “I’m sorry your feelings were hurt” is not the same as a genuine “What I said was wrong.” If it was wrong, say so. If it wasn’t, the problem resides with the overly sensitive response.
I do tend to use “Sorry” as a substitute for “pardon me” I don’t add “I’m” or use it to apologize. I think I picked up from English friends.
Neo:
Perhaps it’s significant that Jovanovic is a Canadian. I’ve heard they are more polite than Americans, and perhaps “sorry” is more ubiquitous there.
Canadians saying “sorry” reminds me of Wierd Al Yankovic’s Canadian Idiot.
Some don’t find it funny. I find it hilarious. Guns to the mall…LOL.
Sounds like one more example of academia’s “publish or perish”.
I’ve known a great many Canadians, and I cannot say that I have noticed anything like that. You will hardly notice a difference one on one (nowadays) unless you are looking for it.
They – some anyway – are somewhat different though, and on average seem to value “community” and “civility” and inclusion and all that horse crap which the SJW’s have fetishized and fixated on here in the U.S., the last couple generations. Canada was probably settled, or its general population more influenced by, a greater percentage of tractable, place-seeking, people than in the U.S.
I think various Canadians have pointed out as much themselves. One author of a Canadian history, and whose name escapes me, commented that Canadians don’t really have any “History”, as it has usually been thought of.
I doubt that if you go back in time, you will find a comparable percentage of Canadian founders [and the ensuing generation, i.e., like Jackson, and Clay, etc. here] dueling at the riverside at dawn, as was found in the United States.
Perhaps that is why that apparent “irony and archness” gene which some of the males seen on their media programs apparently have, seems so prevalent there, and managed to be passed down to this very day.
One author of a Canadian history, and whose name escapes me, commented that Canadians don’t really have any “History”, as it has usually been thought of.
That’s a nonsensical statement.
Canadians seem to lack the sense of self other Anglospheric countries have, and it’s reasonable to attribute that to the jerry-rigged quality of Canada as a country. Had the Anglophone and Francophone portions not been conjoined, you might have an organic patriotism among Anglophone Canadians rather than the Trudeaupian astroturf they have (which is crucially dependent on despising the United States).
you might have an organic patriotism among Anglophone Canadians rather than the Trudeaupian astroturf they have (which is crucially dependent on despising the United States).
I think there was in World War II but it seems to have been beaten out of them since. Probably the Quebecer PMs.
Perhaps the self-deprecating thing is partially a woman vs. man thing. Over thirty years ago my wife and I used a secraterial service for business correspondence. Before most computers were word processors the woman who owned the service wold let us dictate a letter over the phone and with here staff and word processing equipment they could have a perfect letter typed, even on our letterhead and ready to go within 24 hours.
It was a great business for her at the time with a lot of traffic at the front desk where she kept a bowl of wrapped candies. Almost without exception her female customers would ask if they could have a piece of candy out of the bowel and her male customers never asked, they assumed if it was there it was their to have. Does this trait still exist and is there a politeness that women have including saying I’m sorry more than necessary?
Of course it could be a regional thing too because here in the South, including Texas women can be very sweet and polite while they are getting ready to cut your heart out and say “Bless your heart”.
Well, I’m sorry that “academic” is a clueless bint.
“here in the South, including Texas women can be very sweet and polite while they are getting ready to cut your heart out ”
An attractive and generally charming woman (Southern, like me) I used to work with once demonstrated to me her ability to smile warmly while saying “F**k you very much” in exactly the same tone she would have used for “Thank you”. It was, fortunately, just a demonstration, not directed at me. She was about to deploy it against another woman.
Gibbs’ Rule #6:
“Never say you are sorry. It’s a sign of weakness.”
I have to disagree with you on this one. When you have actually wronged someone, you should apologize. But, other than for that, stand firm on rule #6.
Of course even that is far more direct than usual. Usually the cutting happens with only the cutter and cuttee (maybe) knowing what happened.
Neo, thus:
Tell it, Sister! Love is never being afraid to say you’re sorry. (Ideally, at least.)
.
If you’re genuinely sorry, that is. Which you might be, even though what you said or did was necessary or unavoidable. (“Baby, Puss died this afternoon. I know how you loved her — I’m so sorry.”) Or even if you weren’t the cause of whatever you’re sorry about. (He’s just told you he didn’t get the promotion. “Oh, honey, and we thought it was a sure thing. I’m very sorry.”)
I’ve lived in countries with extremely hierarchical cultures with modes of speech dictated by one’s relative social standing to one’s interlocutor. Japan being one. Thailand another.
A good deal of mortal insult in both these very different cultures involves merely omitting honorific or other modes of expressing ones deference. Hence in Japan there are almost zero actual swear words. It’s all done by ‘not saying sorry’. Works just as well as your average Spanish / Italian / Cantonese Yo Mama stuff in risking a very violent outcome.
In Thailand, one of the main attractions of the TV soap operas is the suspension of disbelief permits a suspension of many of the normal rules of social interaction. So they are full of social inferiors talking back to their betters. A kind of sociological revenge porn.
It’s hard to imagine more rudeness and fewer politenesses making our Western world a better place given the incredible vulgarisation which has happened over the last 70 or so years.
Nassim Taleb makes the point that successful people use profanity in business / social settings to demonstrate that they are not ‘Owned’ by anybody, e.g. wives, HR, need to appease SJWs, etc. I can relate to that. However, there’s a big danger that one can get too addicted to ‘honest rudeness’ (he said, in a rare bout of self-awareness). Tough one to get right. Especially in these troubled times.
First, I worked in Canada quite a bit in the ’90s, training airline pilots, out in the Maritimes. Loved those people. But, to say they were more polite than we are is bogus. In particular the sexual innuendo from pilots to Flight Attendants actually made me cringe. Even then, it could have been be a serious issue in the States.
As I say, I really liked them; but, found them just as blunt as anyone in their speech patterns; and for the most part as far from politically correct as one could imagine. While sitting on the gate in Montreal, I asked the crew what you called residents of the city, citing New Yorkers as an example. The straight faced response was “Frogs”.
In England, “sorry” was a knee jerk response, almost a verbal tic, and no one took it seriously.
Every culture has its protocols. These have typically developed over time, and usually serve the culture well. Adherence to them often distinguishes those who support the culture, regardless of status, from those who do not. Unfortunately, as alluded to by Zek, ours are under attack from those in the “so called upper tiers” of our culture, and that does not serve us well.
Oldflyer
While sitting on the gate in Montreal, I asked the crew what you called residents of the city, citing New Yorkers as an example. The straight faced response was “Frogs”.
I spent a day as a patient in a Boston area hospital around the time Quebec was -once again- voting on whether to stay in Canada or not. I discussed the Quebec referendum with my roommate. My roommate, a Massachusetts native of French-Canadian background, referred to the Quebecois as “our froggy friends.”
The thing about Canadians is that their sense of themselves as a nation amounts to little more than “We’re not Americans” — and the ones who are *really* far-gone into that pathetic anti-identity try to deny that we Americans even have the right, sanctioned by near 400 years of Anglo-sphere tradition, to call ourselves “Americans”.
The “We Canadians are more polite than Americans” self-promotion ought to be understood in this context.
This is really old tripe. I remember it from the 1970’s. Feminist blather.
Etymological History of “sorry”:
Old English sarig “distressed, grieved, full of sorrow” (not found in the physical sense of “sore”), from Proto-Germanic *sairiga- “painful” (source also of Old Saxon serag, Middle Dutch seerigh “sore; sad, sorry,” Dutch zeerig “sore, full of sores,” Old High German serag, Swedish sårig “sore, full of sores”), from *sairaz “pain” (physical and mental); related to *saira- “suffering, sick, ill” (see sore (adj.)). Meaning “wretched, worthless, poor” first recorded mid-13c. Spelling shift from -a- to -o- by influence of sorrow. Apologetic sense (short for I’m sorry) is attested from 1834; phrase sorry about that popularized 1960s by U.S. TV show “Get Smart.”
So it’s word that has seen a lot of change, from “grievous” and “wretched” to genuinely apologetic to the insincere modern-day useage as an all-purpose preemptive strike in case (1) someone might be offended or disagree or think you rude or (2) someone caught you being naughty and you can say you’re sorry implying you’re sorry for being naughty but actually mean you’re sorry they caught you. See also, “Sawy” which is the expressly insincere form of sorry.
Nobody Atall;
I think your username is way too self-deprecating 🙂 .
Just re-watched, “What’s Up, Doc?” after about 3 decades. Lat time I either forgot, or didn’t notice Streisand’s mocking of the, “Love means never having to say you’re sorry” line to Ryan O’Neal. Caught it on this viewing. Very funny!
I saw “Love Story” on its first run with some HS mates (the mother of our British-born friend took us all to the big city to see it).
I thought it was sappy show then, but we all sniffled through it anyway.
My interpretation of the questionable line, though, was that soul mates had ESP: Love means never having to SAY you’re sorry – I’ll just assume you are, because I know you would say it if you only thought of it in time.
On the other hand (per Wiki): In the script [as opposed to the novel] the line is phrased slightly differently: “Love means not ever having to say you’re sorry.”
Which could mean: if you love each other, you will never do anything that you have to apologize for.
Mum thought the show was rather bawdy.
Back to the original topic: IMO it doesn’t hurt to grease the wheels of civil discourse, and especially to give people an excuse to save face, which is what the lady (because that’s what she is) did when she allowed that the pizza driver might have a reasonable explanation for being late that wasn’t really his fault — she felt sorry (mildly) about HIS discomfiture (if he had any, that is), not for anything SHE did.
That “successful” men (or women) don’t have this kind of response is a flaw in their personality.
“A good apology can really clear the air, if a person has done something wrong.”
This is so important for good marriages.
The sawy for being caught is terrible. The quick sorry = pardon me is also mostly good, even when it becomes: sorry — you don’t even have to say “pardon me” altho it was YOUR fault (you bumped into me, or other small issue).
It’s far more agreeable to live with people with say sorry, often, maybe even when it’s not needed, than to live with people who don’t say sorry often enough, even when it is their fault.
Agreeableness is the Big 5 personality trait that women often have more than men; and in work, among men, it’s a trait that often means getting less money, less prestige, less promotions.
My wife has reminded me to NOT be sorry on team status calls that the status is behind or has some problem, just because of the problem. Only be “sorry” when your own actions caused the problem. (Generally, I AM “sorry” that the problem exists; like I’m sorry so many Muslims are terrorists; sorry that US Dems are now against Free Speech; sorry that I now believe we’ll never have faster-than-light travel, etc.)
But now in my life, I’m quite interested in living with more agreeable folk, so an extra “sorry” or two is fine.
My favorite “sorry” apology is “Sorry if I offended you…” I recall we used this sort of apology when we got ourselves into a pickle with the ChiComs (early during the reign of Bush the Younger). Colin Powell really sparkled that day!
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