Martina Navratilova is at a political change crossroads, whether she realizes it or not
Here’s the story:
Navratilova tweeted out before Christmas, “You can’t just proclaim yourself a female and be able to compete against women. There must be some standards, and having a penis and competing as a woman would not fit that standard.” The tweet brought a firestorm and she promised to write more about it when she educated herself on transgender athletes.
She tried to make amends in an op-ed in February by explaining the science she discovered…
It didn’t work. She was dropped from the board of a gay rights advocacy group, and excoriated further on social media. As part of a response to that, Martina wrote [emphasis mine]:
What I really wanted to do was try to open up the debate about equality and fairness in relation to transgender participation in women’s sport. There were too many voices that were silenced and shamed into submission and that is not right. My aim was to encourage a more scientific, rather than emotional, conversation and to search for a solution that would work better than current arrangements…
Well, I certainly stumbled into a hornets’ nest. The support I normally get from ‘my people’, the LGBT community, was replaced by a barrage of quite nasty personal attacks and I was dropped (jettisoned is a better word) as an ambassador for Athlete Ally.
Conversely, some publications and people that I am at odds with on most issues, such as the Washington Examiner (gasp) and James Woods (double gasp), were strongly supportive of my opinions. Those are unwelcome bedfellows. So where did I go wrong? Or did I go wrong?
Most coverage of this story is about the transgender athlete controversy aspects of it. But the portion of Navratilova’s words that I bolded is what caught my attention. What I see here are the glimmerings of at least the possibility of political change on Navratilova’s part, depending on how she answers the questions she posed.
This incident represents an opportunity for her to make a shift, a move that’s incredibly hard to make and that she may reject. You can feel her confusion and hesitation; it’s real and it’s painful. It’s somewhat like what #WalkAway founder Brandon Straka said in the video where he told his change story. At the beginning of Straka’s voicing of a single mild non-PC possibility, he wondered something like why are my friends treating me like that? I thought they were my friends. Why are my enemies treating me nicely? Does that mean I’ve gone over to the Dark Side?
Or maybe it’s not the Dark Side?
Navratilova is experiencing the struggle between emotions and logic. She didn’t think there would be such a disagreement between the two. Her friends are leading with emotion, and she wanted to lead with logic. People like James Woods are defending her out of logic, too, not because they love her. And she is discovering the viciousness of the left towards someone who violates the rules of groupthink.
I wish her well.
I think I read today that they will let these ‘women with men parts’, that is people who have decided to identify as women participate in the Olympics, if that’s not an Onion piece and it’s real then women’s sports will cease to have any meaning. I stopped watching that stuff years ago because there was so little actual coverage of sporting events and all sorts back story blather and lots of commercials, women’s sports have always been trying to draw a bigger crowd and be more meaningful and now I think they just shot the whole thing right in the heart.
The first time they put a young teen age boy in one of those skimpy gymnast suits with half his butt showing I think a lot of people will be turning off their TVs. Just the thought of that is creepy.
Neo, I doubt you do twitter, but is there some way you could bring your writing to Navratilova’s attention? Sometimes seeing other people’s take on your situation can open the eyes a bit.
“My aim was to encourage a more scientific, rather than emotional, conversation …”
That worked so well for former Pres. of Harvard Univ., Larry Summers. It’s a good thing that tar and feathers has gone out of style.
Don’t people understand? Political “conversations” are only allowed to include science if that science supports politically correct goals.
And to reply to OldTexan’s comment: I have two daughters who have been athletic their whole lives. They were 3 sport, but settled on soccer. Both played in college and the younger just was accepted on a semi-pro team. They like to play on co-ed teams as they think the guys make bring a level of play that challenges them, But they would never think playing against a team that fields a male disguised as a female would be fair. Through them I’ve obviously been a big supporter of women’s sport and to see it degraded this way is distressful.
Interesting point physicsguy. I always thought Navratilova was such a class act. It would be nice to help her somehow.
I know someone who spent about a year in “combat” in the Twitter-verse. At one point I offered to help her arm herself (legally of course), but in the end she just gave Twitter up.
physicsguy:
Thanks, although I don’t do Twitter. But anyone here who does could certainly try to get Navratilova’s attention.
The left doesn’t want to use logic instead of emotion. Navratilova is learning that. She’ll either have to give up her mind, or re-evaluate her connections.
Joe Buck interviewed Navratilova on his show. She talked about being a Czech under Communism, where one wrong word, one wrong opinion could get a person in trouble, cost a job, land them in jail. Then Joe oblivious said something like, “thankfully, we don’t live in a totalitarian country like that”.
Good to see that she will not go quiet into that good night. I think she will come around.
God give her strength.
I wish her luck in figuring out friend from foe. Perhaps she will come to realize that the right side is for the most part more accepting of differences than the totalitarian left.
Don’t think Martina will change to a conservative any time soon. I just took a look at her Twitter feed and she’s anti-Trump, anti-guns, and anti-ICE (U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement), and for the House bill #HR1, which includes things like automatic voter registration.
When I watched Thiel announce to the world that he is a proud gay American at the 2016 RNC convention, I realise a huge shift in the political parties was happening. Martina is better to comment on the so called “intellectual dark web”sites, which I see as a pushback of the lunacy of the left. There are a lot of us out there that considered ourselves liberal Democrats. But they have lost their soul and do not make any sense no more. You have exceptions, (Tulsi Gabbbard for one who has been sidelined by her party, which is totally ridiculous.) but the rule of totalitarian is the Leftist goal. It is insanity in it’s purest form. Gone is the party of Mansfield, Moynihan, and Carter where you felt these people cared about America and it’s citizens. It is disgusting that we spend so much time on all the social victims instead of the real victims of society; ie the homeless, the hungry, and the sick. All issues that are blind to sex, gender, colour, and politics.
I hope that Martina chooses wisely.
Everyone has forgotten the outrageous East German Olympic women’s teams that were winning Gold after Gold. They were shot up with all sorts of male hormones and other chemicals to bulk them up.
But that little piece of history is down the memory hole.
Neo, you were sort of a conservative (Blue Dog?) Dem – Martina has long been an LBGTQ anti-Christian advocate.
Still, I think she’ll be squirming more and more, till she buckles under (she’s no longer so young), and gets on the bandwagon.
Boys as girls will be winning the women’s trophies, until the women or gays stop it. Reps can only laugh or be disgusted.
The detransitioning videos will be, slowly, getting more play, and become a bigger part of the conversation.
It’s like feeling squashed, depressed, manipulated, misunderstood, bored, confused, hated, crazy, disgusted, angry, afraid, trapped.. and then realizing, wait, I can just leave.
It can be a problem being a sane Democrat.
Ann has the right of it.
Navratilova is simply fighting for her feminist tribe.
In passing, I watched Tulsi Gabbard assert on Carlson’s FOX show that BOTH those on the Left AND Right refuse to engage her on the issues and just slander her. That is a typical LIE. Only those on the Left substitute slander for reasoned debate.
BTW, Tucker let her get away with that lying slander. But that is the norm on FOX, which is why I stopped watching them.
Don’t forget Tammy Bruce. She was president of the LA National Organization for Woman (NOW) chapter and on NOW’s Board of Direction. She identifies as lesbian.
However, she was forced out of NOW after she made some “racially insensitive” remarks during the OJ Simpson trial. She saw the trial through the prism of domestic violence rather than race. Off with her head!
Bruce is now a conservative radio commentator and believes current feminism is no longer authentic. I’ve listened to her and read her occasionally and she’s good. She is another example of a changer.
Martina, doesn’t think someone with a penis should participate in women’s sports, eh? I wonder, if like so many advanced thinkers, she is perfectly accepting of girls participating in boy’s sports? There is only gushing plaudits when a high school girl goes out for football, or wants to wrestle with boys. (Well, the occasional curmudgeon sees a double standard; but, there seems to be few of us.)
Read recently a disparaging story about a high school boy who refused to wrestle a girl. Tut! Tut! Apparently no one, including Me2ers, saw the mine field that kid faced. They did not want to see it, of course. Where can, or can’t, you grab a girl wrestler?
A reasonably intelligent young person going out into the world can easily become a Leftist because of its emotional appeal to caring and kindness and fairness. Sharing those emotions with others carries the young wanderer quite far down that road. But notice I said “reasonably intelligent.” Intelligent people generally apply their powers of reasoning to issues. Some young Leftists grasp the inherent cognitive dissonance of Leftist doctrine, and attempt to reason out those inconsistencies . . . which cannot be done . . and the light comes on. Which light exposes more inconsistencies. Eventually the former Leftist realizes that it is far more intellectually satisfying to participate in reasoned debate than to mindlessly follow an emotional mantra.
Navratilova is transgender, but of the mental kind (i.e. sexual orientation), so she aligns physiologically with feminine females. Unfortunately, political congruence (“=”) has progressed and liberalized, and what was equivalent in yesteryear, is exclusive, “strict”, today.
The Progressives have thus far retained the male-female, neo-male/female, models of separation in sports, citing their respect for the dignity of self-identification.
re: retained the male-female… models
Perhaps motivated by a nostalgic memory of the equal and complementary status of men and women in life and procreation inherited from our ancestors. Perhaps in a bid to temper progress to the pace of baby steps in order to avoid provoking an anxious response.
A reasonably intelligent young person going out into the world can easily become a Leftist because of its emotional appeal to caring and kindness and fairness. Sharing those emotions with others carries the young wanderer quite far down that road.
CapnRusty: You must be reading my mail!
“Or maybe it’s not the Dark Side?” – Navratilova
Back in the ancient days, when Romney was campaigning, one of Hugh Hewitt’s guests was a guy who was very disparaging of religion in general and Mormons in particular, but never said anything bad about Muslims. Hewitt asked why the double standard.
Paraphrasing somewhat: “Because,” the guest said, “Muslims will kill me, and the Mormons bring me cookies.”
In the zeitgeist of the times, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was seen by a lot of other people as somehow threatening, and this put things in perspective to at least some of them (at least on the blogs I was following back then).
So that guy’s reply always makes me think of the the internet and tshirt meme: “Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies.”
No one seems to know the origin, but there are lots of suggestions in the comment thread here.
https://davidmperez.wordpress.com/2007/09/04/where-come-to-the-dark-side-we-have-cookies-comes-from/
“Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies.”
Here’s Maria Bamford, my fave nearly unknown comedian.
“Don’t Be Afraid of the Dark”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07G42sYYZxU
Don’t be afraid of the dark.
That’s where there’s ice cream
and county mental health services.
Don’t be afraid of the dark.
There’s nothing to fear
because we’re all terrified.
She has a few issues….
Bill M on March 8, 2019 at 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm said:
Joe Buck interviewed Navratilova on his show. She talked about being a Czech under Communism, where one wrong word, one wrong opinion could get a person in trouble, cost a job, land them in jail. Then Joe oblivious said something like, “thankfully, we don’t live in a totalitarian country like that”.
* * *
Not totally, but it’s getting closer.
So far, we still have to go through the courts to put people in jail for wrong-think (cf masterpiece Cakeshop), but it isn’t a long step to take off that cliff — hence, the election of Trump by those who are most swayed by judge appointments.
And the insanity or cupidity of the still-unrepentant NeverTrumpers.
Which is another post.
Chuck on March 8, 2019 at 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm said:
Good to see that she will not go quiet into that good night. I think she will come around.
parker on March 8, 2019 at 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm said:
I wish her luck in figuring out friend from foe. Perhaps she will come to realize that the right side is for the most part more accepting of differences than the totalitarian left.
Ann on March 8, 2019 at 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm said:
Don’t think Martina will change to a conservative any time soon.
* * *
At this point, we don’t need all of the Changers to become card-carrying Republicans; we just need them to stop being knee-jerk Democrats.
Hurray for #WalkAway on that one.
The “dark side” quote is telling – maybe she realizes that the demonization of conservatives is mostly pushed by the Left for their agenda and not because it is true.
If more people on the left accept that people on the right are not Evil Swamp Creatures from the BLack Lagoon, but just have rational policy differences based on legitimate value systems, so we can get back to elections as something less than Major Existential Crises, we will be moving back from the edge of the Next Civil War.
(Caps just seem necessary in today’s milieu, which is like living in a politico-thriller scripted out in comic book format).
https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/space-force-1.jpg
“…why are my friends treating me like that?”
Don’t think of them as friends; think of them as co-religionists. Then, you’ll realize that any deviation, however small, is heresy for which you are likely to be punished.
It seems at least *possible* to me that Navratilova, forced to reexamine both the beliefs and methods of “her side” on the issue of transgender participation in sports, might find herself in a weak moment wondering whether the same conditions might pertain with regard to other issues. She may stay anti-gun, anti-Trump, etc., but start to see that if she, a lesbian activist, can be supported by people on the Right while people on the Left are casting her off – more than that, are trying to make her an unperson – then maybe the left edge of Right is a more comfortable place for her to hang out.
CapnRusty, quoted by Huxley, I too appreciate this and think it is very helpful. At a personal level, remembering this is good for alleviating that gobsmacked-by-anger feeling.
Also, I wonder if quoting it to someone near and dear to me would help.
Which reminds me of Gandalf:
And as has been pointed out often here, C.S. Lewis hinted at much the same thing.
.
Speaking of T-shirts:
Aesop: I hadn’t heard that one before, and it is excellent.
Sums it up nicely. Thank you very much!
I would dearly love to acquire and wear such a T-shirt. Sigh ….
Still, I suppose the rest of the household would see it as applying to troglodytes like me who almost always end up voting for Heffalumps, and latest and worst — who voted for our current President.
. . .
Which prompts me to ask this question:
Suppose that in Nov. of 2016 I had been absolutely convinced that Trump is Darth Vader let loose by Cthulhu to ravage the nation and the globe, but that also I was the sole physical support of my dear old maiden aunt, who needed me to drive her to the polling place.
Would it have been better to stick to my principles and tell her that since she can’t pound sand, and a taxi won’t work for her, she’ll just have to forgo voting?
Or should I have bowed to family feeling (and love) and what sort of feels like a “duty,” which duty of care I did sign up for after all, and lug the old lady out to vote?
Or should I have taken her because I firmly believe that the Great Frog entitles everyone to vote, and therefore it is among my civic duties to provide her transportation?
Thoughts on this sort of real-life dilemma would be welcome.
I doubt Martina will experience a Damascene political conversion.
She received a splash of intersectional cold water in the face, but she’s too wealthy and comfy to change her general philosophy. If the lunatics were attempting to expunge her from the tennis hall of fame – that would be a different story.
LeClerc,
I would not be so sure that the wealth and comfort she earned will cause her to forget what it was like to live under totalitarianism. Especially as the rude beast of totalitarianism appears to be slouching toward Bethlehem to be born.
Come to the Dark Side, we have cookies! *smilie face*
At an Episcopalian church I used to attend, the head priest loved to tell the story of how a Satanist once came to mass and confronted the priest at coffee hour.
“I’m a Satanist. How about that?”
The priest, an unflappable gay guy who looked more that a bit like John Malkovich, shrugged and said, “Oh? How’s the food?”
Who knows how far Navratilova will go? I don’t think anyone does, not even herself.
Change is like the Hemingway bankruptcy quote. It happens gradually, then suddenly. I know I shocked all my liberal/progressive friends when I changed.
I met some Iron Curtain people in the Bay Area. I didn’t know them well. My impression was they are not easy to know. They were deeply cynical people, maybe even damaged.
One of them said to me, “You Americans always think things will get better,” and shook her head.
Another woman I met in an NLP workshop. In NLP you start a session by stating your outcome: “I want ….” Her outcome was always, “I want to want,” which is to say, she had spent so much of her life being frustrated or punished, she couldn’t allow herself to want anything.
huxley, LOL !
. . .
Sometime in the last few years, some people called out Katarina Witt for refusing to denounce East Germany. But somebody else pointed out that East Germany had supported her skating training and her Olympic skating, which is what had made it all possible; and that therefore, she probably felt it would be disloyal to denounce the former GDR.
That may be a bit garbled, but it’s the way I remember it, and I’m sure of the general gist.
.
Not sure if that is O/T or not.
During her career Martina competed against Renee Richards (formerly Richard Raskind). At one point Richards won the Women’s over-35 singles championship.
After Richards retired, “she” coached Navratilova to two Wimbledon titles.
Martina has been around the transgender rodeo a very long time.
If Bruce was Caitlyn back in 1976, would “she” have been an Olympic champion?
If you open Pandora’s box, don’t get squirrely when strange things fly out.
Huxley, I haven’t read Tammy Bruce’s blog in a long time (does she still blog) but remember her as always strong and incisive. Maybe I should re-engage.
I think she knows that she is correct about the competition aspect of her statement. Biological females cannot successfully compete with bio-males where strength and its bi-products (speed, jumping, agility, endurance) determine the outcome. What she has missed is the fact that the “other side”, those who know different but use the trans concept to fuel their agenda, They have already settled what they want to call science and have moved forward to institutionalize it. If actual thinking enters the fray, the house of cards collapses, which would include financing and their power to influence public policy.
Martina has not seriously accepted that science and logic are not popularity contests. It is never settled. She has to come to grips with the idea that she is right and must now look inward to find a way to escape the clutches of the mob. She may be an accomplished tennis player, but she has now dabbled in a much grander and more dangerous game. She will wander for a while, but will have to find her way. Not everyone will be happy about where that way takes her. She must be certain that she will not be unhappy with her end result. Maybe she needs to learn more about those who agree with her, before she accepts that they are the “dark side”.
Oxymorons:
Woman with a Man’s Body,
Man with a Woman’s Body.
Democrat believing in the Freedom of an Individual.
Chris Evert relates that, even at the height of her career, her brother routinely whipped her silly and he never played above college varsity. If the equality brigade has its way Bruce Jenner should return to the Olympics and shatter ALL records. Why not?
40+ years ago I was a linesman for a match Martina played. So I’ve been personally glared at by her, and believe me, she’s a formidable “glare-er”. Hope she decides to use her toughness to save us from this insanity.
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Heritage Foundation recently held an event for feminists/lesbians and even a former transgender who are concerned about the erasure of women’s rights and women’s spaces by the transgender movement. They commented on how strange it was that the only place that would host their event was a conservative think tank. I think it’s only a matter of time before these ostracized feminists reach out to Martina, or that she learns of their existence. Btw, you can find the event online – it’s fascinating.