MeToo: what are the limits of sexual harassment accusations?
I’ve already said I don’t automatically believe women or men as a class. In fact, I don’t believe or disbelieve a member of any group simply because that person is a member of that group. I evaluate each accusation on its own merits, knowing how difficult that is when the only evidence is often just the competing stories of the parties.
That’s why the proliferation of accusations that are part of the #MeToo campaign on Twitter and elsewhere troubles me. Sexual harassment exists; no doubt about that. There are all kinds and all degrees. There are avenues for redress. And there are sometimes reasons that the victims don’t report the offenses when they first occur.
And there are also lies, both big and small, on all sides.
The process of sorting it out is very difficult, and doubt often remains. But now it’s happening more often that the legal process is circumvented and we are left with the court of public opinion, and the acceptance of every accusation as the gospel truth by a huge segment of the population.
I don’t operate that way. But I seem increasingly to be a dinosaur.
Some of the newest misdeeds reported include an old man’s lame joke. Really? Is a woman so very weak and defenseless that this constitutes some heinous crime? Can’t we save the real outrage for more egregious offenses such as those Weinstein is alleged to have committed, and/or times when there is a quid pro quo (or threat) stated or at least implied?
Take a look at the Mark Halperin story:
Five women told CNN that Halperin sexually harassed them while at ABC News, with some accusing him of inappropriately propositioning him and pressing his genitals against them without consent. Halperin served in powerful positions at ABC, including as the network’s political director, though none of the women who spoke with CNN say Halperin threatened their careers or promised to help them in exchange for sex.
In a statement to CNN, ABC News said that Halperin has not worked at the network for a while and that “no complaints were filed during his tenure.”
The five women told CNN that they did not report the incidents to human resources because they feared retribution from Halperin. They spoke to CNN on the condition of anonymity because they know Halperin is an influential member of the media.
I hold no brief for Halperin. I don’t ordinarily watch the news on TV and until today was almost completely unfamiliar with him except for a few brief moments he was connected to some story or other. He appears to be guilty of some of these offenses, having admitted to the following:
Halperin apologized for “[pursuing] relationships with women that I worked with, including some junior to me”, but denied pressing his genitals against a woman and grabbing another woman’s breast.
More about the accusations:
On October 26, 2017, CNN reported that five women had come forward and accused Halperin of sexual harassment. One woman told the network she was assaulted after visiting Halperin in the early 2000s. “I went up to have a soda and talk and ”” he just kissed me and grabbed my boobs,” the woman said. “I just froze. I didn’t know what to do.” Another woman told CNN that Halperin once pressed his penis on her shoulder during the 2004 campaign cycle. “I was obviously completely shocked,” she said. “Given I was so young and new I wasn’t sure if that was the sort of thing that was expected of you if you wanted something from a male figure in news.”
As I said, it seems to me that Halperin is guilty—perhaps not of every single element of every single alleged offense, but of the general pattern and of many if not most of them. They are not trivial; although they’re not in Weinstein territory, they are offensive if unwanted.
But I am surprised at these women’s self-reported reactions, too. After all, these are not women who came of age in the 40s and 50s. These are women steeped in the idea that they are strong, and that unwanted touching is bad and that they can report people who sexually harass them at work and get some sort of redress. So, they “froze” and “didn’t know what to do”? Why not? Even a woman of my generation knows what to do—have some courage, and step up to the plate! Is it so hard to tell someone his behavior is unwanted and unacceptable? Is it so hard to report him? Is it so hard to do something that might jeopardize your job? Isn’t it the case that people often have to take a stand that might threaten their jobs, or risk being morally compromised? Is it too much to ask that people do it anyway?
Apparently, it is. Here’s some more:
Halperin served in powerful positions at ABC, including as the network’s political director, though none of the women who spoke with CNN say Halperin threatened their careers or promised to help them in exchange for sex.
In a statement to CNN, ABC News said that Halperin has not worked at the network for a while and that “no complaints were filed during his tenure.”
No threats. No promises, either. And no complaints.
So why were these women so very afraid? What are they willing to stand up for if it threatens their job? Anything? Are they only coming forward now—post-Weinstein, post Ailes and O’Reilly—because it involves so little risk?
I’m not asking everyone to be a profile in courage. But certainly, in the absence of any overt threat, it shouldn’t be too much to ask that a woman report harassment. If you want to mix it up in corporate life, you have to have some sort of spine, don’t you? Must everything be a completely Safe Space, with no risk whatsoever and no responsibilities on your part to even defend yourself in the ways that are available to you?
In the case of the “Lame joke” what would it hurt to take your own hand and move his?
In the not-Wienstein cases, most of the advances could have been deflected by simply saying something, e.g. “I’m a germaphobic” or “did I give you the wrong impression?”
In my young bachelor days, I probably pushed the line sometimes, but I distinctly remember (50 years later) being embarrassed by two different comments along those lines.
I find it mysterious that we went from the “Tough Talking Dames” (book about movie heroines of the ’30s) to these weak sisters. Were the characters played by Katherine Hepburn, Eve Arden, Ginger Rogers, Barbara Stanwyck, Rosalind Russell et al completely imaginary? Did Edna Ferber not know what she was writing about when she (and George S. Kaufman) wrote the play Stage Door which became the movie, which IMHO is one of the best of all time.
To quote a leading feminist of today, “What Happened?”
Really quite bizarre. Some fifty years after the pill and the Sexual Revolution and Free Love, women are falling out of trees like rotten apples one after another, complaining about men and their ‘harassments’. Never recognizing that erections in young men are usually involuntary, and that sometimes close contact is unavoidable.
It occurred to me once, long ago, while I was doing a patient-requested premarital exam; she was going to marry a Spanish noble and move to Spain, wanted to know if it would be OK to expose her nipples to the sun. Being my usual non corner-cutting self, I examined her breasts. She was attractive, and up it came involuntarily!
“Put your dick away until and unless I want you to use it, on my command and with my permission only.” That is today’s message.
Meanwhile, if you look at online menswear ads like Bonobos (a ‘young’ site which has appeared on my PC lately), you see only skinny girlie-men wearing too-tight clothes; in photos by Brooks Bros, with both sexes pictured, the shoulder width of the two is equal. Women are working out at my club; many are the treadmill runners in their twenties, to what purpose? They’re not all doing it for endorphin highs.
The majority of the population and the college graduates are female, as are the majority of MDs produced, and female life expectancy exceeds the men’s. Women are also predominantly Democrats, as Hillary’s campaign and the election and its aftermath have demonstrated. “Hysteria” is derived from “wandering uterus” after all. Hyst as in hysterectomy. “Take back the Night”, etc.
My conclusion is American men have been pushed into a Title IX corner. They have been wimpified by constant barrages, treated for ADHD based largely on female teachers’ assessments, and maleness in America has become a shadow of its former self. Harassment is to large degree in the eye of the complainant.
Not in China, Russia, the MidEast or Africa, though. Good luck, ladies! Digital warfare cannot come soon enough! Man (oops!) your keyboards.
The woman who reported that Halperin pressed a certain part of his anatomy against her shoulder is either telling the truth or is a genius for coming up with an “ew” image that rivals Bill Clinton and the cigar.
“Isn’t it the case that people often have to take a stand that might threaten their jobs, or risk being morally compromised? Is it too much to ask that people do it anyway?
Apparently, it is.” neo
When called upon to take the morally correct action, the higher the price, the greater the depth of moral character required.
Few today measure up.
The Founders moral character is a major factor in why they are so venerated, having pledged to each other “their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor”. How many today even believe in “sacred honor”?
IMO, they exemplify of whom Jesus spoke when he observed that, “many are called but few are chosen”.
I guess I’m a dinosaur like you, Neo. I don’t know any of these people personally and have no idea what the facts are. Completely disregarded in the current atmosphere is the possibility that some women may have signalled that they were “game”, willing to advance their careers in ways that have a history. To even suggest such a thing brings such opprobrium, why would one even do so? And some of these accusations do seem to correlate to the “snowflake” times we live in.
I was riding a ten speed down a country-ish lane years ago – back before you had to dress like a dork in order to ride one – and as I was stopped at a street sign, a convertible with two chicks in it sneaked up behind me and one of them grabbed my ass. They then has the temerity to turn into the drive of a nearby mansion and beckon me from the front porch. Yoooohoo, they cried. Hussies! Whaaa … I’m a victim too!!!
Something similar happened on another occasion, only this time it was several girls. Thank goodness they had no house nearby to threaten me with!
One time I was in a packed bar in Chicago; and when I innocently swiveled my stool from the bar toward the dance floor, some abuser planted her hips between my knees and wouldn’t move away, but pretended she was swaying to the music. Abuse! I am a victim too.
On another occasion – when I was young and tender and of college age – I rode my motorcycle to work and going up to the office to collect my pay check was assaulted by a female boss -who just because she was attractive thought she was hot stuff – as she sang “Here he is … Mr. America …” and then asked if I was there on the weekend to see her.
Did I mention the coworker who thought it was funny to reach between the buttons of my shirt and grab a handful of chest hair? Oh … har dee har har. Brazen abuser!
Yes. We are all victims now. Trust me.
DNW:
As time goes by i am becoming more and more aware that i have led an exceptionally dull life.
Just a few sleazy exhinitionists on the NY subway, and not a single unsolicited ass-grabbing by me or to me.
Just a few years ago, however, an elderly guy gave me his business card by sticking it in my–ahem–cleavage. It was summertime, after all.
I decided he was a bit drunk and dotty. His wife was standing right next to him at the time, and she was the one who looked mortified.
given that the people in charge of this kind of area of social melieu deny anyone else but they being valid, i will let them talk and tell you what they think and want, and been mosly ignored or considered fringe… Funny but your living the application of the quotes of the ladies who thought like this to create this…
Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience. Catherine Comins
just realize there are whole treatises and things you guys dont read that are the foundation of this, these are not silly ideas floating in the ether… [some of these are required to be believed if only to get a passing grade!!!!!!]
Politically, I call it rape whenever a woman has sex and feels violated. Catherine MacKinnon
(that sure changes the definition. how many years is ok?)
And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant heterosexual (male), it may be mainly a quantitative difference. Susan Griffin, Rape: The All-American Crime (well they think we have a rape society and so there must be professionals… but you cant pass your degree in college unless you agree!!!! but its over 30 years old, so what does anyone care what happens? the time to act was decades ago!!! not after the 2nd generation has grown up or third, are we on fouth level dyfunction yet?)
and why everywoman must be believed
If anyone is prosecuted for filing a false report, then victims of real attacks will be less likely to report them. David Angier [this was a huge thing in the 80s when they redefined it and didnt let the world know. i guess have to figure out where the land mines are by stepping on them? ergo MGTOW, dont go there at all)
As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women…he can sexually molest his daughters… THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN IN THE WORLD DO ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE. Marilyn French
[where do these people live? i lived in an inner city slum and it was better than this womans mind]
I do want to be able to explain to a 9-year-old boy in terms he will understand why I think it’s OK for girls to wear shirts that revel in their superiority over boys. Treena Shapiro
and the articles… wowsers
“My Lie”: Why I falsely accused my father
For years, Meredith Maran believed her dad molested her. She talks about “recovered memory,” and finding the truth
https://www.salon.com/2010/09/20/meredith_maran_my_lie_interview/
More than 20 years ago, Meredith Maran falsely accused her father of molestation. That she came to believe such a thing was possible reveals what can happen when personal turmoil meets a powerful social movement.
[but the wacko women that advise and do this do NOT get any punishment or anything for the lives they wreck!!!!!!!!!! all they get is ammunition to prove how bad the world is cause they made victims they could USE]
Men wrongly accused of rape mustn’t be granted anonymity
Tory MPs Mark Pritchard and Nigel Evans have demanded that men accused of rape remain anonymous, after charges were dropped against the former this week. Joan Smith explains why this should never be
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11331015/Rape-row-Men-wrongly-accused-of-rape-mustnt-have-anonymity.html
But these accounts – given by well-known men with easy access to the media – overshadow the untold stories of thousands of women (and some men) whose traumatic experiences you will never hear about. They should be viewed in the context of a study published last year by the Crown Prosecution Service, which showed that false accusations of rape are ‘very rare’.
[actually they are NOT rare – and some studies give wacko numbers that people speak but dont think… ]
When a man (for it is usually a man) is first arrested and charged, it may be on the word of a single complainant. Publicity about the case, including the identity of the accused, gives other victims the courage to come forward.
and there is why… so many people can jump on it..
how many of these people we will watch, will make money, get notoriety, perhaps parts out of pity, and more? now, how many would ever be punished for it?
There is a scandal around rape in this country. But it isn’t about a handful of men who have been wrongly accused, no matter how justifiably angry they are. Compared to the number of cases that never see the light of day, their experience is, I’m afraid, a drop in the ocean. It is about the many thousands of victims who don’t get justice at all – and the main effect of giving anonymity to accused men would be to make that situation even worse.
so throw innocents on the fire..
eventually you will be right, so who cares?
its only men
I concur. Completely. A good analysis of the issue, Neo.
I know it sounds harsh but truths sometimes are, so I will say it: the passivity of the women in that newsroom who have only now come forward to point the finger at Halperin is pathetic – particularly given that such women invariably trumpet their alleged strength and power when it is safe and consequence free to do so.
Worse is the actress who claims she needed to be emotionally “supported” by her workmates as though being goosed by an 89 year old wheelchair bound man and told an off-color joke were somehow traumatic.
Besides moral courage, whatever happened to perspective and balance? In the GHW Bush incident it is Barbara Bush’s bemused eye-rolling that strikes me as the more adult response.
Feel offended by such behaviour? Sure. Feel that Halperin and Bush 41 are boors? Sure. That’s valid.
But don’t go to water over such trivial things -and if you do, then have the decency not to boast of your empowerment and courage as a woman as you do so. Take a stand and act like a grown up with agency – or own your weakness like a grown up.
That’s what I have a problem with: the hypocrisy of so many modern women: clutching their pearls and swooning at every trivial boorish insult while simultaneously trumpeting their strength.
I’m also not a fan of piling-on or ganging-up. It seems to me that the only times I have had to face bullies was when they were in packs and I was alone. It takes no courage to advance on a man when in a pack. Any coward can do so.
It’s also a shame that the “there’s a special place in hell” crowd of gender hucksters like Hillary and Albright have moved in to negate your sensible policy of examining the evidence of each individual incident rather than simply deciding the issue based on the gender of the parties involved.
To declare that “you have the right to be believed” based on gender is bad enough but so much worse when its author makes an exception to women who point the finger at her own husband. Such hypocrisy. Thinking people see it for what it is and it serves only to distract from an important issue.
It may well have been on your blog, Neo, but I read and heartily approve an excellent observation by a woman who was truly strong and didn’t just pose and pretend to be. The Iron Lady once observed:
“Being powerful is a bit like being a lady. If you have to keep telling people you are then you probably aren’t.”
It is a confusing time. As some have noted, you always believe the woman–except, apparently, when “Bad boy” Clinton is involved.
I have no respect for men who take advantage of vulnerable women. On the other hand I have very little for women who come out of the closet years and decades after the fact, and ruin a man; sometimes after they have become very successful in their careers with the help of the man. See Roger Ailes and the Fox Blonde Bombshells.
Some have laughed at VP Pence for saying that he would not be alone with a woman other than his wife. I imagine there are a number of previously successful men who wish they had subscribed to that. But then, how does a man ever get a wife, or a woman a husband?
Obviously, the rapidly evolving technology of sex droids will be the answer. No recriminations; no messy emotional interaction. Pro-creation is another matter.
Oldflyer,
thanks for mentioning VP Mike Pence. A very apropos reference in any discussion about principled adult behavior.
I confess to being intrigued by the man and his lady, too.
VP Pence strikes me as being one of a shrinking breed, practically unknown outside the comments board of this learned blog: the good and decent man.
His performance in his single campaign debate with Kane was as magnificent as it was understated.
Just as Ted Cruz will always the smartest man in any room he enters, VP Pence is always the adult in the room.
Your country really dodged a bullet when Trump came forward in this last cycle. God bless that most unusual man.
Hillary is deplorable – but we have a word for her running mate in Australia: a ratbag.
Well, under Pro-Choice, there is a presumption of guilt. With female chauvinist progress, the evidentiary standard is a preponderance of allegations. With diversity, it is: I am man, therefore I rape, and sometimes rape-rape.
LOL
You need to get yourself a 10 speed … or a motorcycle.
Did I mention the neighbor in the next apartment who used to get me out of bed at midnight by banging on my door and asking to borrow a glass of wine?
You could not make this crap up, because if you did, someone would naturally think you stole it from a script for a bad movie. She even looked like a young Shirley MacLaine [had to look the spelling up just now].
Trouble was I didn’t like Shirley MacLaine’s damn pixie looks even when I was 8 and she was 30 … or whatever the ratio would have been in the mid sixties when her movies were on TV … much less 25 or whenever years later
Knock knock knock. Straggle to the door. Peephole. Oh: It’s Ms Pixie, pronouncedly braless in a sweatshirt.
“Hi it’s me! Say could I just borrow a glass of wine, I’m all out and my arm kind of hurts. The pain killer isn’t helping either.” (She had some kind of carpal thing going)
“Just a second, wait right there, I’ll get it.”
“Mind if I come in?” as she steps in. (She screamed and nearly collapsed the first time she saw the mule deer mount I had sitting in the chair next to the door – a gift from my boss)
“Just a moment”
“Oh don’t rush!”
” Here. Take the bottle”
“No, just a glass. Do you have a glass?”
“Yeah. Here take the bottle and the glass”
“Mind if I drink it here?”
“Won’t your husband be looking for you?”
“Oh he’s not my husband! I told you that before.”
Geez. Fun to laugh about now. Wasn’t funny then.
Then there was that girl friend she had.
I don’t even want to think about that.
By the way Neo, the business card scenario sounds promising. At least from a visuals aspect.
With that woman and Bush 41, she couldn t just chalk up his behavior to senility, what a ditzy dame.
Reminds of a place I worked at decades ago. “Mike” was a bit, shall we say, touchy/feely as he loved to put his arms around everyone – and not just women. Guys too. That’s just the way he was. I never thought there was anything “sexual” or anything about it.
Well, there were two women who wouldn’t stand for it (and they should NOT have to if it makes them uncomfortable). One day, they let him know that he was “too touchy.” He lamely apologized along the lines of “well, if you think you won’t miss me and my charm; okay then” or something to that effect.
But, the message was received and he stopped putting his arms around them; but, not others.
All in all, I think they all handled it like adults.
On another note; do folks still not understand why Mike Pence does NOT want to be alone with another woman who isn’t a relative? Maybe it is old-fashioned or whatever; but, it will avoid such accusations.
Perhaps the biggest crime of Messrs Halperin, Bush#41, et al, was not paying heed to the Big 3 rules for avoiding sexual harassment in the modern workplace, so pithily explained by the legal scholars at SNL:
1. Be Handsome;
2. Be attractive;
3. Don’t be unattractive.
It’s funny because it’s true. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8
What ever happened to the custom of a woman slapping a man who got “fresh”?
I’m guessing that today women are afraid of losing their career.
Many of the women speaking out now made a choice and, whether willingly or begrudgingly, chose a career over a principled stand. Now that they have their success, now that they got what they wanted, only now do they say how terrible it was. Remember, I’m speaking generally, not absolutely.
Some time ago in a related post I mentioned that the truly brave women of this story are those who made a moral choice. We don’t know their names because many of them never had the opportunity to have a career as a result.
See Susan Venker’s article. Excerpt and link (emphasis mine):
The link:
https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/comes-sexual-harassment-women-men-options/
Talk about women jumping on the #MeToo bandwagon. It was just too tempting for Senator Elizabeth Warren. She had to air her story of sexual harassment on national TV. Turns out the story wasn’t exactly as she described it the other day on Meet the Press. She had, in fact, told the same story at her harrasser’s funeral. Except this time it was a light-hearted incident because her pursuer was a cripple who had no chance of catching the fleet Warren. She had no hard feelings about it – shown by her willingness to speak and recall this incident at his funeral.
Fauxcahontas caught in a lie again. Read about it here: https://conservativetribune.com/elizabeth-warren-lying-sexual/
How many of these young women got the President’s joke at all?
David Copperfield hasn’t been in the limelight for years.
(last tv show in 2012).
PS
Although Wiki gives him a great write-up (it is accused by the editors as being an ad), these are the facts, most of which I didn’t know,although I have long enjoyed his work:
David Seth Kotkin (born September 16, 1956), known professionally as David Copperfield, is an American illusionist, described by Forbes as the most commercially successful magician in history.[3]
Copperfield’s television specials have won 21 Emmy Awards of a total 38 nominations. Best known for his combination of storytelling and illusion, Copperfield’s career of over 40 years has earned him 11 Guinness World Records,[4] a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame,[5] a knighthood by the French government,[6] and he has been named a Living Legend by the US Library of Congress.[7]
Like I said in a previous comment, something did change. I’d like to blame it on the Clinton Presidency, but I think there is something more going on.
If you’re not a victim, you’re part of the elite. That’s the line a lot of leftists are taking these days. If you haven’t been disadvantaged at some point, you’re part of the elite. These women feel compelled to prove that they’re victims. If they don’t, they’ll be made to pay just like the rest of us…
I wrote up a memo for the Daily Brief once, on how a truly grownup female handles a guy being crude. Essentially, hand it right back at him, letting him know that you find his actions to be crude, offensive, etc. Handle it directly with him, do not pass go, whine to HR or your gal pals, or hold a grudge later.
I ought to dig that rant out of my archives and post it again. Obviously, it’s needed at this time … 😉
I’m sometimes glad I’m not young in this culture. To say that women are giving men mixed signals doesn’t begin to do justice to the situation. On the one hand: women are just as lustful as men! women are totally into purely physical one-night-stand hookups, just like men! Look how sexy I am in my bikini! On the other hand: don’t look at me like that, you pig! Cover up that male nude statue, it’s triggering me! etc. etc.
They want men to be assertive and confident–but only in exactly the way and at exactly the times they specify. Other times, they want them to sit in the back of the classroom or the meeting and shut up, don’t “mansplain” etc. They want to beat men in the competition for jobs, but still find a husband who makes more money than they do.
Etc etc. etc. I’m glad I know a lot of very intelligent, grounded, thoughtful women, starting with my wife. And certainly including Neo-neocon. Otherwise I might commit a thoughtcrime about the female mind.
Though actually all that stuff is quite consistent in one way: you are to do what I want you to do. One doctrine of feminism, as I often encountered it in the ’70s, was that men are after power, and women are not (so the world would be a better place if…women had power…?). There’s actually something to that. But I think it’s not that women don’t want power, as that their drive for power tends to focus on a smaller scale–power in the immediate situation.
“Though actually all that stuff is quite consistent in one way: you are to do what I want you to do.”
That’s the basic moral code of modern liberalism in general. Power to control others, as an end in itself.
Your culture and civilization is so broken. It isn’t even funny any more.