One more clarification about the Khan/Trump thing…
…and then I’ll cease and desist (I think; I hope).
I want to make it perfectly clear that I do not think grieving parents who make political speeches are above and beyond criticism. What I do think is that if you’re going to criticize them, you have to be smart about it.
You have to honor their sacrifice first. That’s just common human decency. Then you criticize them for what needs criticizing. And don’t say something offensively stupid like comparing their sacrifice of a son in wartime in the service of his country to your sacrifice of creating jobs and making a lot of money in the process.
Don’t do it. Just don’t.
Also, don’t criticize the mother for not speaking up and insinuate it’s because there’s a Muslim muzzle on her. There are so many other reasons she might have decided not to speak. She might be afraid of public speaking, and feel more comfortable supporting her husband silently. She might be too emotional about the topic of her child’s death, even all these years later; that’s what she claimed, and there is no reason whatsoever not to believe her and every reason to believe her. Don’t insult her on a level that’s so abysmally crass, based on no knowledge of the situation whatsoever.
Those were Trump’s errors, however. He did those two things. They were not just errors involving lack of political savvy, nor were they statements in which he said something true and correct but un-PC. They were not the acts of an alpha male, either. They were the statements of a weak and defensive but pugnacious person who cannot stand to be criticized in any way and who will say whatever comes to mind to retaliate without thinking first of how it sounds and whether it even makes sense (particularly the part about the jobs creation, which really sticks in my craw).
They are stupid errors that show deep character flaws in the man. And no, that doesn’t mean Hillary Clinton is better. She’s different, not better. She has her own terrible terrible flaws of character and of politics. But unfortunately that’s irrelevant to what Trump did, how it sounds to people, and how he shot himself not just in the foot but in both feet.
Can his campaign recover? Maybe. There’s a long way to go to November (it already seems very long). Can he learn from his mistakes? I’ve seen no indication of it, but it’s within the realm of possibility, and I certainly hope he does. And soon.
This is what “electability” and “respectability” mean. Concepts that the alt-right spits on.
If they thought that just because Trump won the nomination it would suddenly imbue him with moral authority (the authority to DEMAND people’s votes), they were dead wrong.
Another thing to the Trump supporters:
If Trump loses, it won’t be the fault of Cruz because here’s something you don’t understand about his supporters: they follow him because he’s not a sellout.
The instant that changes, he will be abandoned.
So you see, endorsing Trump would’ve done nothing except alienate people from Cruz. It would’ve resulted in no great gain of votes for Trump, nor increased stature.
P.S. I bet Trump doesn’t really care if Cruz’ endorsement would’ve helped him. He just wanted to force a competitor to kiss his ring, because that’s the kind of narcissistic asshole he is.
Matt_SE:
I believe that if Cruz had formally endorsed Trump, Trump would have found a way to try to humiliate him further to show that he owned him now.
Let us not forget that the donald waged his own Vietnam in NYC dodging STDs. His hubris and megalomania is deeper than the Marianas Trench. Lap it up trumpian horde. Don’t bother holding your breath, its the pressure at 27,000 feet that crushes.
parker:
Yes, Trump has made countless sacrifices and been in endless combat situations.
The thing is, even if Trump were to change his behavior in the next few months, he’s shown that he lacks the character necessary for the White House.
Wooly Bully:
But the public has a short memory. If he could change his behavior (or if something especially awful happens with Hillary) he could still win.
I continue to think he will lose, however.
@Neo – I believe the point is really, can he credibly change, or will people take it as a sham at this late stage.
People have short memories only if they believe (or convince themselves) it is for real, especially if he is wearing the same team colors.
Remains to be seen. The polls at this point are not looking good, but there’s been a heck of a change in them these last two weeks.
Even an alpha dog (canine) learns not to mark an electric fence.
Donald doesn’t learn.
“This is what “electability” and “respectability” mean. Concepts that the alt-right spits on.” – Matt SE
“Strength” is what is valued. The folks that trump appeals to most (and are they really all in the alt-r?) seem to have given up on decency and respect because they (erroneously) perceive that is how the left holds power. trump is bold enough to play to their prejudices publicly and many love that, calling that “the truth”.
Sadly, what we’ve discovered is that trump’s supporters say more about them than it does about him.
Kahn all over CNN tonight. Commercials coming soon. Hillary can’t run on her record so this is how the Dems role. Textbook.
Big Maq:
“and are they really all in the alt-r?”
The Russians at least aren’t for or against Trump or Clinton as such. They’re against the American leadership of the free world and will tweak anywhere on the spectrum that furthers that mission.
It will be the fault of all of Trump’s critics when treasonous Hillary the unindicted ascends to the WH and appoints three fat, wise Latinas to the Supreme Court to give us total Leftism for the next generation.
Seldom have I seen such a horde of the self-righteous, falling all over themselves in their haste to bring themselves to mass decapitation.
Center 3rd option needed.
Let’s see, Clinton lies about Benghazi, accuses Pat Smith of lying, one member of the media wanted to beat, Mrs. Smith, to death and yet all we hear is what Trump said about Kahn. Three of my family served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yah, I feel sympathy for the Kahn’s but the DNC was not the place to talk about it, they were used, likely willingly. Note Mrs. Smith was discussing what the dems candidate did to her and the fact that Hillary, in my opinion, is responsible for her son’s death.
Frog:
Nothing like passing the buck for Trump’s behavior to those who notice it and remark on it.
The people responsible for Trump’s losing—if he loses—would be:
(1) Trump himself, because he is responsible for his own behavior, not those who happen to notice it and remark on it
(2) those who voted for him in the primaries instead of one of the other candidates, with the evidence of who and what he is clearly before them
(3) those who vote for Hillary Clinton
Trump is not the savior you think he is. If he appears to be an unbalanced boor, and he scares most of the voters who are not already in his pocket, that is his own fault. You seem to think he has the power to stop terrorism in his tracks (your remark about “mass decapitation”), but he has given no evidence of even minimal competence in governing or even describing how he would go about doing such a thing.
Stan on the Brazos:
ALL you hear is about Trump and Kahn? Hardly.
It’s the big news today and needs discussing, because it’s something that people in this country are reacting to, and ignoring it doesn’t make it go away.
I wrote 2 main posts about it—one yesterday, one today—and then a third (this one) which is a clarification of some things I hadn’t made clear in the previous two. That’s the total of my discussions about it on this blog, and I noted in this post that I think this will be my last one about it.
Note, also, that in my first post about it (yesterday’s), I also wrote:
And then I described some of the details.
Stan on the Brazos:
Trump deserves part of the blame for that. He had a perfect opportunity in that interview to bring the conversation back to Benghazi and the way Clinton and the liberal media have treated the families of the victims. Instead he rambled on about how the New York real estate business is kinda like going to war.
Frog Says:
It will be the fault of all of Trump’s critics when treasonous Hillary the unindicted ascends to the WH and appoints three fat, wise Latinas to the Supreme Court to give us total Leftism for the next generation.
I like your thinking. Or at least half of it.
If Trump would stop with these skirmishes, like with the Khans, he could consistently focus on things like Hillary’s appointments which is way more important.
Trump takes small arms fire from a hill, runs up the hill to take out whomever is there and ignores the bigger mission. Sometimes it’s necessary, but often he is a distraction to the bigger mission.
In the end, he’s going to take all these hills, have to abandon them to the enemy later because he doesn’t consider the overall goal is what he really needs to focus on.
The wrath of the Khans is going to be part of his downfall if he continues this way.
groundhog:
But what about the “soft Corinthian leather”…..Oops, wrong TV meme, apologies to Ricardo Montalban.
A couple of “on the other hand” posts to add to the mix.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/on-day-4-of-khizr-khan-mess-trump-stops-digging/article/2598338
Gingrich argued the press had worked itself into a frenzy over the Khan matter while spending too little time reporting Hillary Clinton’s various problems. But Gingrich also felt Trump has to respond more effectively to attacks like Khan’s. “He has to be more disciplined,” Gingrich said of Trump. “He has to be more relentless in drawing the big choices, while they try to win with the small mistakes.”
“They’re going to run a soap opera of being terribly shocked by whatever random thing [Trump] does,” Gingrich continued. “And he’s got to stay big and let her and the news media stay small.”
That is basically what Trump did in Columbus.
I asked Gingrich whether he thought Trump would actually follow such advice going forward. “Yes,” he said. “I think he’s a very smart man. This is not a guy who’s gotten to this point by being stupid. But it’s a different game. The general election is faster. He has August to practice. Think of August as Trump’s exhibition season.”
* * *
http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/08/02/trump-will-weather-khan-flap/
It is a truth impossible to refute that if Republicans had put the Khans on the stage, the mainstream media would have gone into overdrive to background-check them up one side and down the other. It wouldn’t matter that Mr. Khan was a Muslim, any more than it matters to be black or female, when one speaks for Republicans or conservatives.
But the MSM does worse than that. It cooperates constantly in themes that project unfounded vilification onto conservatives and Republicans. The deck is stacked so that no matter what Republicans do, they will be branded as callous, uncaring, and vilely prejudiced — whereas Democrats can always carve out hills for themselves on which they are immune to attack (e.g., being publicly supported by a Muslim Gold Star family).
The media and Democratic politicians have made the mistake in the last eight years, however, of extending this perpetual risk of defamation beyond Republicans and conservatives, to the American people as a whole. And the people are increasingly sick of it.
..
Don’t miss what matters here. There are certainly Trump supporters who revel in the “giving ugly” part. But what matters is that Trump supporters are determined to break the straitjacket of political correctness entirely.
They understand that they are held back, held down, held underwater by political correctness. They see clearly that that’s the whole point. It’s a means of keeping them under a yoke. And they’re not going to stand for it anymore. This is the fight of their lives.
If the old-consensus leadership of the GOP and the conservative movement were actually standing for the people in this fight for the basic structure of our politics, Trump wouldn’t have a prayer. It’s because hardly anyone does stand for the people that Trump has been so inexplicably successful.
After Khan, Trump’s supporters will look around and see that still, yet, and always, no one else is standing up for the people against the systematic weaponization of political correctness.
And the first point above, about Mr. Khan’s connections, is just one slice of why that will be decisive.
There are few Americans who would not have sympathy for the Khans, or appreciate the sacrifice their son made in uniform. Certainly all of us who served would honor and remember him for it. Speaking for myself, I would never have criticized his parents as Trump has, in private or in public.
But to say that is not to say that I regard it as a non-problem for scholars of sharia law who have a record of advocating sharia to be practicing immigration law in New York, so they can bring more sharia-advocating Muslims into the United States. If Muslims want to come here, I welcome them — we have many wonderful Muslims here already — if they embrace American ideals and the American philosophy of law.
It was nice to see Khan hold up a pocket version of the Constitution when he spoke. But that’s all it was. Given literally everything else in his circumstances — his history of studying with the Muslim Brotherhood, praising its biggest leaders, advocating sharia, working for an international law firm that specializes in the field of sharia finance, working closely on immigration issues with Saudi Arabia, and being closely connected with the Democratic Party of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton — it is perfectly reasonable to question how strong his commitment to the U.S. Constitution actually is.
The American people are like the rest of humanity: they don’t always express such reservations carefully, or with narrow precision. Just as a veil of unwarranted sanctification has been thrown over the Khans from the left, there have been blasts from the right that are based on circumstantial conclusions rather than evidence.
I see no reason, for example, to proclaim that Mr. Khan is an “agent” of the Muslim Brotherhood, or to imply that he is tarred with the entire brush of Hillary’s morass of corruption. He’s probably just a well-heeled professional from a relatively privileged Muslim background who is acting in good faith according to his lights.
But that’s exactly the point. Without Trump in the room, no one gets to say that: just what I said, and no more. No one gets to point out either that other people, having other lights — being concerned, for example, about the erosion of our rule of law and its Judeo-Christian philosophy — are also acting and speaking in good faith.
In Trump’s absence, we’re all strapped down in the straitjacket, constrained to say only what is politically approved about Khizr Khan’s body of work and its meaning for America — or to be silent, unless we’re willing to see our characters slandered or even our lives destroyed.
The leadership of old-consensus conservatism hasn’t been standing up effectively for the people, so that we can speak our minds: say what we mean to say, and not have the political lexicon itself turned against us before we even open our mouths. Instead, that leadership cowers before the cues deployed by the keepers of political correctness.
Understand that, #NeverTrump right. Until someone else “gets” that, Trump will just keep weathering the storm. He’s the only one doing this thing that so desperately needs to be done.
* * *
what is striking is how one can’t discuss how khizr’s attack was a deliberation appropriation of the real sentiment we feel for our veterans, in addition to the fact, that trump’s stated policy would be an obstacle to his ideological and business project,
miguel cervantes:
What’s this “we can’t discuss” business? I don’t see anyone stopping anyone from a discussion of the things you mentioned. But I have no idea what you mean by “appropriation of the real sentiment we feel for our veterans.” Are you saying his deceased son was not a real veteran, or that we shouldn’t honor his death or feel “real sentiment” for it? Are you saying that referring to that death in a political speech is “appropriating” it? As far as I’m concerned, bereaved parents can make political speeches referring to their children’s deaths. The Benghazi parents did it for the right, and the Khans did it for the left, and both are entitled to do so, and we are free to comment on them doing so.
no his son gave his life with uncommon gallantry, but that wasn’t why his name was brought up 14 years later, re a conflict trump had little to do with, whereas clinton had not an insignificant role in, and it was done to block out benghazi, to erase any sense of truth or accountability for what she has done, to hide the shame bronx cheer that was enabled in that hall,
is pat smith’s statement, about the right, or the fact clinton lied so fragrantly to the world to escape accountability for her actions, and the arb was so willing to cover up for her, and
only judicial watch and that romanian hacker really enabled the truth to come out,
IMO, djt blusters and then his supporters have to explain and parse his words. Well, there are people who are tasked with cleaning up horse shit and the fact remains both trumpians and those who tend to horses are engaged in a similar chore, Stand steady trumpians, you will have a busy time over the next 100 days picking up the trump caca. And no whining allowed. You signed on and you now have what you asked for.
Did anyone, including reluctant Trump supporters, not expect something like this to happen? As Neo asks, if he appears to be an unbalanced boor who scares voters, it is his fault, not those of us who refuse to vote for him. Appears unbalanced? The man IS unbalanced.
What is missing in all this foofarah over Trumps crude and disgusting remarks is the increasingly statist policies he is advocating. By all standards the Democrats should be thrilled when he proposes a trillion dollars in infrastructure projects to be funded by selling interest bearing bonds. In other words, borrowing it. That should match his universal health care proposal nicely. Add in more money for the Veteran’s Administration, the billions needed for a 2,000 mile wall on the Mexican border, and then reduce the tax rate. That should solve our problems!
The man is more than unbalanced. He’s insane. Clinically.
“They understand that they are held back, held down, held underwater by political correctness. …. Without Trump in the room, no one gets to say … just what I said … No one gets to point out either that other people, having other lights — being concerned, for example, about the erosion of our rule of law and its Judeo-Christian philosophy — are also acting and speaking in good faith.” – Aesopfan
Come now. This argument conflates a real “macro” problem (i.e. media bias and political correctness run amok) with a specific behavior issue with trump.
It is not as if the rest of us haven’t noticed this little thing about MSM bias.
It is not about that, and that isn’t a sufficient basis to rationalize what trump did.
Really, it seems like most of your post is arguing for a “safe zone” where you can say what you want without criticism, and perhaps receive a standing ovation.
But, it is par for the course, I suppose. We have to see ourselves as oppressed victims to justify such excesses of “our” leaders on “our” behalf.
Aesopfan,
In trumps absence there is no straightjacket. But, I don’t need no stinking straightjacket as I am free from trump tribalism. You apparently need one. Do not worry, a trump minion will soon…. weeks perhaps,,, find you and bring the best straightjacket worthy of the best members of the trumpian horde. Wear it proudly as that is your reward, 😉
well the outright appeal to fascism, or syndicalism in last weeks convention, willing to rain abuse on veterans and law enforcement is that what you mean, the denial of what has been going on in europe, the last month, one so vast even islamic state has to pipe up and cut through the narrative spun about orlando and nice, not to mention, ruetlinger and anspach,
neo-neocon,
You’re way too nice to Trump.
Ira
I am a strong Trump supporter since he first entered the race. He needs to learn that it is o.k. To punch up, say at any politician or celebrity; but he should never punch down, say at any regular Joe that will disappear from the political stage in a relatively short period. In this situation, he should have just said “I disagree with the gentlemen and I’m sorry for his loss and obvious grief, but I’m running against Hillary not him. I will respond to positions officially taken by the Clinton campaign but not their surrogates.” I also have seen nothing that indicates that Trump is able to reasonably discern between things thatbrequire a response and things that don’t. Unfortunately.
And, yes, I’m voting for Trump because
He’s Not Hillary!
CLINTON DELENDA EST!
AesopFan,
I agree with your excerpts in their basic notion that the urgent priority for the Right is the need to learn to compete for real as activists in the activist game.
However, the basic flaw in the excerpts is the premise that the Trump-front alt-Right is their champion. alt-Right ≠Right (at least until the alt-Right finishes off the old Right and drops the alt-). Inasmuch the commentators you quote are conservatives of the Right, they’re observing with grim hope a competitor learning to play the game, not their own political team.
The Trump-front alt-Right is not conservative. They’re usurping the Right and displacing conservatives from their space in the political landscape upon which they’re establishing their own social activist movement for their Gramscian long march that’s just as odious as the Left. And they’re on their way.
In their Left mimicry, the Trump-front alt-Right is learning and training by playing the game. They’re in the arena, the key formative step. Just as stark, in contrast, conservatives of the Right – with their protestations of Trump – are yet staying out of the arena so that they’re preventing themselves from learning the game.
The Right can’t learn to compete as activists by not playing the game and by complaining about the game to prevent even conceiving themselves as players in the game. If the Right’s preferences were honed perfect, that wouldn’t be enough if they can’t practically champion them effectively by winning the necessary social dominance in the arena to reify them.
The chief reason I want a viable 3rd option is not to win the 2016 general election – though of course it should try its best to defeat the Democrat-front Left and Trump-front alt-Right even if that means throwing the election to the House – but rather for the Right, also Center, to take the practical steps needed to establish the necessary permanent social activist movement to compete for real.
Learn and train activism by doing the competition for real in the activist game of the 2016 election. Learn the critical lessons this time that conservatives and the GOP should have learned but apparently blocked out from the 2012 election.
For all the mocking and criticism of Trump and Trump-front alt-Right by conservatives of the Right, yet he and they recognized and seized on the activist game, the critical step which the mocking and criticizing conservatives have failed to take, even now.
If Trump loses the 2016, the Trump-front alt-Right may or may not drop their Trump front, but they’re not dissipating. They’re modeled on the Left. The activist game is bigger than electoral politics. Their social activist movement is established now and their Gramscian long march will continue.
The way for conservatives of the Right to prevent their political obsolescence, reclaim their political space, and then compete for real is a 3rd option in the 2016 election that facilitates learning and training by doing activism in the arena versus real competition, in order to establish a sufficient social activist movement to, in effect, undertake their own Gramscian long march that can compete with the others.
In the meantime, conservatives imagining that the Left-mimicking Trump-front alt-Right activists, along with Trump tacking to the alt-Right, are on their side is a political evolutionary dead end, unless they submit and convert to the alt-Right and meekly hand over the Right to the alt-Right.
Panic Mode: Khizr Khan Deletes Law Firm Website that Specialized in Muslim Immigration
This development is significant, as his website proved–as Breitbart News and others have reported–that he financially benefits from unfettered pay-to-play Muslim migration into America
Panic Mode: Khizr Khan Deletes Law Firm Website that Specialized in Muslim Immigration
Khizr Khan addresses delegates on the fourth and final day of the Democratic National Convention at Wells Fargo Center on July 28, 2016 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
AFP
[edited for length by n-n]
Read documents like Agenda 21 and U.S. Army doc “FM 3-39.40 – INTERNMENT AND RESETTLEMENT OPERATIONS
This goes with the other dog on his to man and operated the camps
My phone messed up the article post
But so far the Conservatives want to make the same mistake that has cost then dearly since Reagan…
They would rather lose the nation playing what they think is a fair by the rules fight
Then they get kicked in the crotch, drop, and sunset web they list again
It’s obvious that neo has more regard for their son than they did as they were willing to try to edit him and his death and his patriotism as a tool, debasing the whole thing for party against the military and fit personal gain and to gather sympathy from their opposition to make them weak and lose…
When the communist trained children to fight war would you not sit them when they attack???
The dems fight as war and no limits like not to sully the service of a hero… They will advise anything sociopathically without guilt to win by
Any means…
You can be sure they are looking up more old folk to abuse your sense of emotion against your own future
Sad
My son is military
And I would never use his death
Their abuse of him, his patriotism, etc
Negates the idea of fair fight
If you stick to Queensbury rules in a street fight you WILL lose he nation
You will feel morally superior on the bread line
Or when thy withold medical care to hasten your death
Sociopaths can play your emotions without the guilt that makes you weak and lose…they purposefully choose just for that nasty reason
By being this way, you lose to them
You can’t win against such as your guilt, sense of PC, and more mature yu too weak to win…especially today
OMG!!!! His website is down – it MUST be because he is hiding something!
I don’t know the explanation for the site availability, but there is hardly anything controversial about it – For all the noise that Breitbart (and artfld) are making of it.
BTW, art, would have been nice to provide the link here rather than make folks search for the g.d. source of your multi-post, so folks can see for themselves how innocuous it is.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160305024110/http://kmkhanlaw.com/
And for those who might make a big deal about the mysterious ESI Institute…
https://web.archive.org/web/20160316222854/http://kmkhanlaw.com/Electronic_Discovery.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronically_stored_information_(Federal_Rules_of_Civil_Procedure)
BTW, for mom and pop sites this is a common phenomenon – often it is because their hosting contract expired and they forgot to renew, but there are several possibilities (denial of service attack?). If you look at the site, it is very unsophisticated – he used GoDaddy’s free website builder (logo at bottom of page) – very mom and pop.
@Art – look, he may well be the reincarnation of Hitler.
But, trump was shooting from the hip – he had (probably still has) absolutely no idea about who Khan is, at that time.
In trump’s mind, he seems to be wondering, “Who the h*ll is this “nobody” to question and insult ME, just because he lost a kid in the war”. And, trump’s response was effectively “whoop de dooo, I created thousand and thousands and thousands of jobs – that is my sacrifice that is comparable.”
Now all his supporters are piling on with backfill on the character of the Khans, to justify trump’s response after the fact.
Again, Khan may or may not be anything that these people are making them out to be – I have no idea. But, I very much doubt trump knew it and was responding with that in mind.
It is just one more proof point that if trump were elected it would be a cluster.
“My son is military And I would never use his death Their abuse of him, his patriotism, etc Negates the idea of fair fight” – Art
Interesting argument.
It is inappropriate to be willing to speak out because of the loss one endures. (plenty to debate about that point)
But, it is okay for a presidential candidate to attack someone because they questioned him and said things that he might have found “insulting” (as opposed to recognize their loss and address the merits of their claims).
All because the left doesn’t fight fair, anyway – so the end justifies the means.
If “our” side has such a hair-trigger response to any slight, how can we expect the other side to stand down? It just creates more “retaliation”, because “our” side behaves this way, so why shouldn’t they? And it spirals from there.
Art:
Dakota Meyer (Medal of Honor, Afghanistan, Son in law of S. Palin) said Trump should apologize to Kahn family.
http://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2016/08/03/medal-honor-recipient-blasts-trump-truth-bomb/
Trump is efficiently and effectively handing the election to Hillary. When she wins, his supporters can blame it on the voters rather than on him if it makes them feel better, but that’s rationalization, not reasoning. He could have won, and still could pull it out, maybe, if he could get his overgrown adolescent boorish self to conform to some kind of pretense of adult maturity and self-discipline. But that seems more and more improbable, and when she wins — as I think she will — her disastrous presidency will be his fault.
I don’t know what Trump said, don’t care, don’t know who this Khan is, don’t care, and was prepared all kinds of mini-controversies the media would and will seek to generate in their anti-Trump bias until the election.
I don’t care. I already know he’s an asshole. e was never MY asshole, nor my choice, but I dislike Hillary and everything associated with her enough that I wouldn’t vote for her if you paid me twice.
This kind of nonsense will only come thicker and faster until November and it’s foolish to pay any attention by this point.
“When she wins, his supporters can blame it on the voters rather than on him if it makes them feel better, but that’s rationalization, not reasoning” – Mrs Whatsit
Excellent point. That brings up another concern wrt trump.
He doesn’t just lose. He will metaphorically light a fire and leave a scorched earth.
It is already starting now, with discussion of how the elections are “rigged” and “voter fraud” could turn the election – to paraphrase the sentiment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bPR846gO8U
I don’t care … and it’s foolish to pay any attention by this point – miklos
I’m sure millions of leftists agree with you – don’t pay attention, there is nothing to learn from being aware of what is going on, and pondering how it might impact you.
Better to stay… what is the word for it… ignorant? IDK, give me a better word for it.
That is certainly not a position I’d advocate for anybody.
Cindy Sheehan was another convenient look behind the Left’s masks, for those paying attention back then at least.
Trump is also the Gamergate or Rabid Puppies of Republican political elections.
That meaning can be positive, neutral, or negative depending on what side your pov is.
Breitbart has also sold out and become Trumbart, where their mailing lists are used to sell Trum material, much like those newsletter I signed up for in the hand to hand or self defense communities.
If “our” side has such a hair-trigger response to any slight, how can we expect the other side to stand down? It just creates more “retaliation”, because “our” side behaves this way, so why shouldn’t they? And it spirals from there.
The REpublicans stood down against FDR, LBJ, Clinton, and the Left’s sabotage in Iraq and Afghanistan. They, as a result, were defeated, except in DC where they helped Democrats gain more power, scratch their back, in return for favors.
Bush II did everything he could think of to cooperate with Democrats. Look where that got him and his voters.
Frog Says:
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:08 pm
It will be the fault of all of Trump’s critics when treasonous Hillary the unindicted ascends to the WH and appoints three fat, wise Latinas to the Supreme Court to give us total Leftism for the next generation.
Seldom have I seen such a horde of the self-righteous, falling all over themselves in their haste to bring themselves to mass decapitation.
Frog might as well be blaming God for humanity’s flaws and evil.
Unless Frog thinks he and his associates + family has never voted Democrat or helped a Demon US President to power before, he who lacks sin, throws the first stone.
As far as I am concerned, my fear of a Hillary presidency overwhelms any mickey-mouse over what Trump should or should not have done/said.
We are in a fight for the nation’s life as a Constitutional Republic, and we focus our lenses on mickey-mouse and on hopes for a 3rd party alternative and de-facto surrender the country to the evil that is Hillary and the modern Democrats.
You here seem to think the Donald will have no advisors and no Congressional opposition. Hillary WILL have her corruptocrat advisors AND a shove-it-down-your-throat Senate and a House run by Ryan the False. In attacking the anti-Hillary, you are sacrificing the country to Hillary.
I am so very discouraged by this blog and its readers. There could be posts about Nehlen v. Ryan, for example, if merely to increase Nehlen’s visibility a tad. But no, here we will complain about Trump and ignore the Alinskyite Hillary who surely was in the loop to secretly fly $400 million to Iran to “make up” for a 1979 deal.
Trump is who he is: Hillary’s only material opponent.
I am so very discouraged by most of you. I do not count GB or Art in that number.
The usual diversions in play in this thread. A favorite, of course, is that the media is not fair.
I know that. Neo knows that. Everyone on this site knows that. Doesn’t Trump know that? Can’t the man who is more savvy, and street smarts (he told us) figure out that his stupid statements will be played for all they are worth? Circumspection wins elections.
People can try to change the subject as much as they want. The crucial issue is that the man running against Hillary; the man we must now pin our hopes on; cannot control himself. He has no discipline. His instincts are terrible. He has no class. (Well, maybe the last attribute doesn’t matter considering what we elected the past two cycles.)
As noted above, it may be too late to try to create the pretense that there is another Trump hiding behind the bombastic facade. (His wonderful kids lied through their teeth about that)
A couple of weeks ago I wrote to Trump via his campaign headquarters with some criticism and helpful advise. (No, I really did. I sometimes do crazy things. I should have saved the stamp.) The key point I tried to make was that he needed to convince the American people that he understood that the seeds of America’s greatness was vested in its people and institutions; and not in the persona of Donald J. Trump. Pearls before swine.
The generation in America, let’s call them the old pre 2000 generation, has given us the situation in this country, once blessed by the grace of God.
All the technology, all the knowledge, all the victories in war, has led the US of A to this point in time.
The excuse of the new generation is ignorance and lack of power. What is the excuse of the Baby Boomers and the older generations, that they have allowed the Left a hundred + years to take over?
The blame falls not politicians primarily, but on the people. For it is the people who have Damned themselves to hell and eternal spiritual rot, by their actions alone, No Excuses about kings being the problem. America didn’t have kings before to take the blame.
Some of them now think they will redeem themselves or this country, by falling for propaganda, Leftist or Republican. That doesn’t work. They also think they can save their hides by having a Hero King in charge of the USA’s arsenal.
Personally, the only one I trust to save my hide, is my own skill at killing evil and decapitating. I don’t need Trum or Frog to save me from decapitation, decapitation is a Useful Skill, just so you know. It’s especially useful if you know the proper blades to use to get that, which is Not Islam’s combat “long daggers” and long knives and machetes.
In the end, when weakling Americans find that politicians fail to save them (just as the police have failed), they will look to the rest of us for salvation. By then, I will not lift a pinky to save the wretches that have damned themselves. Let them burn, it’s not like they cared about changing themselves enough to deserve victory.
I am so very discouraged by this blog and its readers.
For a coward of the Old Guard to say such things, is not so much ridiculous as preposterous.
Frankly, the Trump supporters in this debate are starting to sound like they’re defending a wife-beater by attacking the wife’s actions or motivations.
Sorry, no. It doesn’t matter who the Khans are, or what they might have done, or what progressive leftists have done in the past or anything else. The only party responsible for this stupid unforced error is Trump and his big mouth, his bigger ego and his gigantic, oblivious ignorance. A boorish and poorly thought-out attack on private citizens who disagree with him is not just inappropriate, it’s a preview of what happens when other private citizens disagree with him, or worse, members of our government or other governments don’t lick his toes.
He needs to stop behaving this way, or he just has no business representing our nation or having access to military forces or nuclear weapons. Of course, if he keeps behaving this way, there is no way he gets elected.
Frog, it’s Trump you should be discouraged by.
You don’t seem to understand that those of us blaming Trump for his behavior are not just talking about who WE’RE going to vote for, but on what we think voters will do based on his conduct. I’m certainly not going to vote for Hillary, whatever Trump does. But I wish he would stop doing things that will clearly cause many other voters to pull the lever for her. Instead, he keeps doing more and more of them — and that’s his fault, not that of the voters. And not the fault of Neo, or me, or the others here who see what’s happening and say so. You’re shooting the messenger when you blame us for “discouraging” you by seeing the writing on the wall and reading it out loud. Shouldn’t you be discouraged by the guy that’s doing the writing?
Watch Obama go to war against North Korea in order to get Hillary elected.
Patriotic Dems!
The only party responsible for this stupid unforced error is Trump and his big mouth, his bigger ego and his gigantic, oblivious ignorance.-Kyndyll G Says:
Trum old fart fell into a trap. It’s something the Alt Right would not have fallen for, as their leaders are somewhat more intellectually minded, also younger.
It’s the same sort of trap the Republicans and Democrats set for Sarah Palin. The Left, due to their power of evil, knows exactly how to manipulate humans into falling.
Trum thus bears some of the blame, but the trap was initiated by others.
Trum is only forgiven his transgression and sins, because people think ruthlessness will lead to victory against Islam and the Leftist alliance. Shatter and undermine that belief, and the entire edifice falls with this country.
Trum has always been the Clinton’s new Ross Perot. That’s been the theory by the “doomsdayers” on here for quite some time. People ignore it, of course, they can’t even debate for or against that, just as they ignore the Left’s 3+ million fake votes while claiming they can “win elections”.
If people want the USA to become New York, by all means, allow the Clinton alliance to manipulate them. It won’t be a country under “god” any more. Unless by god they mean a Divine King like Hussein.
Shouldn’t you be discouraged by the guy that’s doing the writing?
Vassals are not allowed to criticize their liege lord in public.
And that is what many, though not all, of Trump’s 3 pillars of support have done. They have foresworn allegiance to Jesus Christ and God, assuming they had any to begin with, and recommitted themselves to a new convenant and contract, one based on secular power and victory to some politician as their New Lord and King. And thus, as a vassal to their new lord and king, they are not allowed to criticize, even in the secret of their own mind, their new lord. They are too motivated by fear, for all intents and purposes, fear motivates them.
What people should be motivated by is Hate instead, true hate. Hate of evil. Hate of their own weakness. But humans are too weak to invest that much in self change, they want “hope and change” guaranteed by some king instead.
If Trum is mercurial, the same was said of Hussein Obola before.
Instead they accept the lesser version, and hate their political enemies, like Cruz. Or they use fear as their sole motivation in life. What a pathetic existence, but predictable for mortals.
“Frankly, the Trump supporters in this debate are starting to sound like they’re defending a wife-beater by attacking the wife’s actions or motivations. “ – Kyndyll
“You’re shooting the messenger when you blame us for “discouraging” you by seeing the writing on the wall and reading it out loud. Shouldn’t you be discouraged by the guy that’s doing the writing?” – Mrs Whatsit
Hear! Hear! to both comments.
I so wanted to support trump. But, I saw the flaws (last summer), and they were politically fatal – not just for a run for office, but for what our country needed to right it’s / our course.
And, those flaws have become magnified as time goes on. It will only get worse, I’m afraid.
What Frog expresses today is what it was like early-midway through the primaries, when it seemed incredible that a large body of people couldn’t see the flaws and the implications down the road.
Perhaps it was worse, because it was the (shocking) realization then that the principles espoused by many of our leaders, thought leaders, pundits, etc. were merely a cloak, some piece of clothing, that they easily discarded, and donned a new one, in order to back someone who was a loooong distance from what they said they stood for.
Where I was skeptical before about the media, the politicians, etc., I am now aporetic about all.
Oh, pshaw, Big Maq. They have a saying in Israel about whether to continue to fight for their survival: “Ain brera,” “There is no alternative.”
There is no alternative in this election. You’re always talking about a third party, but if you really believed in a third party alternative, you would have been working for the last 20 or 30 years to get a “Conservative Party” going. You didn’t.
And now there’s 97 days to go before Election Day, and there’s only going to be The Evil Empress and The Donald in contention. So which will it be: the Asshole or the Criminal?
So which will it be
War, it will be, and has been.
As for Israel:
Isaiah 3New International Version (NIV)
Judgment on Jerusalem and Judah
3 See now, the Lord,
the Lord Almighty,
is about to take from Jerusalem and Judah
both supply and support:
all supplies of food and all supplies of water,
2 the hero and the warrior,
the judge and the prophet,
the diviner and the elder,
3 the captain of fifty and the man of rank,
the counselor, skilled craftsman and clever enchanter.
4 “I will make mere youths their officials;
children will rule over them.”
5 People will oppress each other–
man against man, neighbor against neighbor.
The young will rise up against the old,
the nobody against the honored.
6 A man will seize one of his brothers
in his father’s house, and say,
“You have a cloak, you be our leader;
take charge of this heap of ruins!”
7 But in that day he will cry out,
“I have no remedy.
I have no food or clothing in my house;
do not make me the leader of the people.”
8 Jerusalem staggers,
Judah is falling;
their words and deeds are against the Lord,
defying his glorious presence.
9 The look on their faces testifies against them;
they parade their sin like Sodom;
they do not hide it.
Woe to them!
They have brought disaster upon themselves.
10 Tell the righteous it will be well with them,
for they will enjoy the fruit of their deeds.
11 Woe to the wicked!
Disaster is upon them!
They will be paid back
for what their hands have done.
12 Youths oppress my people,
women rule over them.
My people, your guides lead you astray;
they turn you from the path.
13 The Lord takes his place in court;
he rises to judge the people.
14 The Lord enters into judgment
against the elders and leaders of his people:
“It is you who have ruined my vineyard;
the plunder from the poor is in your houses.
15 What do you mean by crushing my people
and grinding the faces of the poor?”
declares the Lord, the Lord Almighty.
16 The Lord says,
“The women of Zion are haughty,
walking along with outstretched necks,
flirting with their eyes,
strutting along with swaying hips,
with ornaments jingling on their ankles.
17 Therefore the Lord will bring sores on the heads of the women of Zion;
the Lord will make their scalps bald.”
As it so happens, the people of Judea’s desires for war against Rome, burned them out, literally, in 75AD. They followed false prophets into death and crucifixion. They did not follow Christ, Moses’ predicted second messiah.
But the USA is in no different a situation.
@Richard – You argue “survival” – what does that actually mean to you?
To me a good part of it is preserving our liberty and the institutions / laws / structures, self reliance and limited government that make the idea of America Great.
From where I stand, BOTH candidates essentially head in the same direction – there is NO WINNING anything.
If it is about being able to PHYSICALLY function with enough intact to mount a counter offensive in four years – if it is REALLY about that – it increasingly seems like trump is the bigger gamble.
Most of the arguments that say otherwise are largely similar to what we’ve heard in 2012’s race. And those hyped up arguments were spot on, weren’t they?
Fitting that hyperbole, some here call it a choice between “fascism” vs “marxist” and ask me to pick… that is like asking me to pick heads or tails then saying “heads you lose, tails they win”.
If you find trump and all the implications thereof acceptable, then go for it. Likewise for clinton.
If you don’t on either, then there IS an alternative.
Saying there isn’t doesn’t make it so.
Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.
The last part was hard to interpret, but this different translation gives me a few ideas. Such as, what happened to Judea after 75 AD? Islam occupied it. And what do Islam do to women there? The headdress.
People back then were pretty superstitious. If they were shown a vision of something, they assume God made it become reality. In point of fact, humans make it into reality, via quantum mechanics and collapsing the wave front. God merely seems to be capable of predicting that before it happens, or maybe to divine level entities, it has already happened.
“And now there’s 97 days to go before Election Day, and there’s only going to be The Evil Empress and The Donald in contention. So which will it be: the Asshole or the Criminal?”
I suppose most of us here will vote for the Asshole. The problem is, the more of a complete and gratuitous jackass that the Asshole insists on being, the fewer of OTHER people – you know, the ones who weren’t already going to vote anti-Democrat no matter what – will vote for him.
That’s what the Trump supporters have done. They’ve taken what might have been a comparatively easy win against a very weak and poor candidate, at a time when the Democrat party is unusually angry and divided, and given us a probable loss in the form of a man who is almost unelectable and making himself more unappealing (to everyone but diehard Trumpers) every time he opens his mouth.
Has he even bothered to say anything particularly nasty about or to his actual rival, Clinton, yet? All we’ve seen him do so far is wage war against Republicans and beat up on noncombatants.
A bit off topic…
George Will wrote an article wrt trump and his relationship with the russians.
It used to be that a google search for “George Will” and on duckduckgo would bring similar results.
Today, GW is nowhere to be found on the first page of DDG (other than an image from Wikipedia). Google seems unaffected.
Work of russian hackers? Is google next?
/jk and apologies – waaaay off topic.
Kyndyll said: “That’s what the Trump supporters have done. They’ve taken what might have been a comparatively easy win against a very weak and poor candidate, at a time when the Democrat party is unusually angry and divided, and given us a probable loss in the form of a man who is almost unelectable and making himself more unappealing (to everyone but diehard Trumpers) every time he opens his mouth.”
Yup.
Have to agree as well, but y’all knew that.
If it is about being able to PHYSICALLY function with enough intact to mount a counter offensive in four years — if it is REALLY about that — it increasingly seems like trump is the bigger gamble.
Many who support Trum, like Saunders, do believe it is a biding action or delaying action until a later counter offensive. I just don’t think a new Reagan or Hero King will come in and save such a wretched people.
The only one that claimed and proved they could save humanity, humans from the human condition, was Jesus and his disciples. Mohammed and Allah promises glory and pleasure eternally, but that sounds fishy.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-and-the-khans-1470159956?mod=djemMER
Trump is an obscenity. He would not be welcome in my home.
The only thing he has going for him is Hillary.
What he does wrong might be fixed one way or another.
Hillary, otoh, will arrange for her work to be irreversible.
She will even further politicize the federal agencies with incompetent, corrupt, Alinsky wannabes. The FBI is now investigating the EPA over the catastrophic spill last year. Betting is this is the process by which the feds clear each other. Ditto the Clinton Foundation.
With Lois Lerner and Loretta Lynch clones everywhere, we cannot come back.
Trump is offensive. Period.
It is now one year later.
One year of his campaigning. Help me out here. WHAT HAS HE LEARNED?
He is as cumbersome in his delivery today as he was a year ago—he’s learned nothing.
He is as awkward in his choice of comments now as then.
A BUFFOON. Learned nothing.
___
All of that said, it is fascinating to learn that Khan has written of his prioritization of SHARIA LAW over the constitution. If Trump were at all on his political game, he’d have clarified this. He’d have chosen this over his feckless, lame, pathetic comments about Khan’s wife not speaking.
Chump is a persistent BUFFOON. Period.
Ymarsakar:
The so-called “Old Testament” and the Jewish Tanakh are different in certain respects. Some of the predictions that Christians believe predicted Jesus are not in the original, they are additions or different translations (I don’t know who is behind this website, or whether the person is accurate, but in a quick perusal of the topic it’s the most comprehensive-seeming website I could find on the subject). Some are in the original, but were not fulfilled by Jesus, according to Jews.
Some more observations, to help clarify the matter:
1. Mr Khan spoke at the DNC on July 28th.
2. That same day, a bus in France was firebombed with a Molotov cocktail, after the road was barricaded.
3. Two days before, on July 26th, Muslim terrorists killed Father Jacques Hamel inside a Catholic church in Normandy.
4. Four days earlier, on July 24th, a Syrian refugee wounded 15 people and killed himself in a bombing in Ansbach, Germany.
5. On July 18th, five people were wounded by a Muslim refugee with an axe in Wurzburg, Germany.
6. Two weeks earlier, on July 14th, a Muslim terrorist killed 84 people and injured 308 in Nice, France.
7. On June 12th, a Muslim terrorist killed 49 people and wounded 53 others in Orlando, FL.
8. There have been repeated incidents of Afghan soldiers turning their guns on U.S. soldiers that they serve with and killing them. Some of the more recent ones were on 8/26/15 and 4/8/15.
9. On August 5th, 2014, Major General Harold Greene was killed in just such an insider attack in Afghanistan.
10. On November 5th, 2009, Nidal Hasan, a major in the US Army, killed 13 other soldiers and injured 32 at Fort Hood, Texas.
11. Then there was the Benghazi attack on September 11th, 2012, which has yet to be fully explained. (The relevant question: were arms supplied to Syrian rebels, and did any end up with ISIS?)
12. And there is also Bowe Bergdahl, released in an exchange with the Taliban on May 31st, 2014. Sgt. Bergdahl is facing a court-martial for his conduct, coming up in early February 2017.
13. Captain Khan was killed in Iraq on June 8th, 2004. Over seven years later, by roughly the end of December 2011, the U.S. forces had been withdrawn from Iraq by President Obama. Since that time, that country has been unstable, nearby Syria is in an ongoing civil war, and ISIS has its own quasi-state in portions of those countries–where it is responsible for numerous terrorist attacks today.
14. Estimated casualties from the Iraq War for U.S. forces are 4,424 killed and 31,952 wounded. Some relevant questions are: what were the strategic gains from that war; and secondly, were those gains squandered by Mr. Obama’s decisions?
15. If you wish to have better outcomes, with all that has gone on, and with the nature of terrorist threats today, the correct, wise, and prudent policy is not to admit into the U.S. any more Muslims or persons from such countries in the Middle East.
16. And that is why I am voting for Trump, because this is an issue of national security. He will defend the country in ways that those on the Left are unwilling or unable to.
miklos:
People who will stick with Trump no matter what because they believe anything is better than Hillary don’t need to pay attention, but what they do need to pay attention to is how other people will view things, and what such behavior tells them about who Trump is and what to expect of him were he to become president. It says something about his character and judgment.
At some point, is there anything he could do to seem worse than Hillary? For example (and this is my own personal fear) the more off-the-wall and erratic he seems mentally and character-wise, the more people will fear having him in charge of nuclear weapons. That fear may transcend all fear of Hillary for a lot of people.
@Yankee – a similar list could have been drawn up in the 1930s about the Germans – fortunately, we didn’t assume they were all of the same mind.
But, would your prescription prevent Orlando, as one for instance from your list? Fort Hood – another?
Do we need greater scrutiny? Yep.
Should we be blindly offering refugee status to thousands? No.
But, if even if this was all that trump had, the risk of the rest that comes with him may make that one issue seem petty in comparison.
For anyone suggesting that Congress will have the backbone to resist trump… check out trump’s tactics wrt Ryan and McCain.
He’s a man who has to get even, no matter what.
“Winning!”
Neo,
With regard to your comment: “You have to honor their sacrifice first.” I expect that you are speaking of the sacrifice of the son, not the parents (as Gold Star parents).
I honor veterans and especially the fallen who have protected my rights for me. However, as a parent who has lost a son (although not through war), I can guarantee you that the parents have made no sacrifice at all.
One might respect their loss (which is great) and one should respect the ultimate sacrifice made by their son. Their son’s sacrifice might have been thrust upon them, but the parents left behind have no absolute moral authority (as the left would have us believe about Cindy Sheehan or as they would have us ignore in the case of Pat Smith) except in announcing their grief which is always real, heartfelt and unspeakably profound.
Pastor Martin Niemé¶ller’s prayer…
“And first they came for…”
Trump didn’t even wait for the first few verses to finish before he turned his sights on the GOP.
do you agree, specially considering the venue,
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/08/khizr-khan-republicans-cowards-moral-sense-160803065800720.html
the feckless leadership that funded the ‘hear no evil, sea no evil’ cve, that’s not the republican party,
T:
I think you’re using too narrow a definition of the word “sacrifice.” Anyone who has a loved one in a war zone makes a sacrifice, even if the person comes back fine. Anyone who has a loved one wounded makes a sacrifice, and of course if the person dies the sacrifice is even greater.
Of course the person him/herself makes the greatest sacrifice. But parents and friends and wives and children make a sacrifice too, of time with the loved one, and of days that are spent in fear and anxiety about the loved one serving in a war. They are all different types of sacrifice and degree of sacrifice, but parents who lose a child in war have made an enormous and immeasurable sacrifice.
I speak as someone who when I was in college had a boyfriend who served in combat in Vietnam, as a door gunner on a Medevac helicopter. He was wounded, etc. Was my sacrifice all that great? Probably not. But I remember the terror and anxiety I went through, and how alone I felt. I don’t equate that with his sacrifice (which involved compromised health for the rest of his life) or his parents’ sacrifice (mine was much much smaller). But it was all sacrifices, in my book.
It doesn’t give parents such as the Kahns any special clout or moral authority or freedom from criticism. But their sacrifice needs to be paid attention to, especially if you’re going to criticize them. It’s just the decent thing to do.
My sympathies on your loss.
Hi Neo. Some general remarks. As an historically minded person, probably one of the first steps you would take if you had the time, is to try and introduce a clear developmental timeline against which one can lay the known facts and adduce implications.
The first thing to notice in this issue, is that when it comes to the supposed reworking of Isaiah of other texts, it cannot be the Christians who are responsible since the Septuagint was developed well before the advent of Christianity, as the author takes pains to point out – while judging the Jews who made the translations as trimming heretics and apostates.
Apparently he is referring to the Septuagint. So, at least in this case, whatever the issue of textual corruption might be supposed to be, it could not have been Christians who were responsible.
I suppose the same could be said for the Divine Logos doctrine found in Philo and which predates – barely – Christianity.
Ymarsakar – first of all, don’t call me or any of the other Trump nose-holders here or anywhere else, “Trump supporters.” We’re not, and you knw it.
Second, do please try to get your Jewish history right. Not only did the Muslims not come after the First Jewish War, which ended in 73, not 75, but they didn’t come after the Second Jewish War in 132-135 (only people ever to revolt against Roman rule twice!, btw). Judea was ruled by the Roman, later Byzantine, Empire until the Muslim Conquest in 638-641.
Oh, one other curious thing. Though I am sure that Jewish scribes have taken extreme care that not one jot nor tittle of their manuscript copies of the sacred texts was altered in any way – by letter count checks and various other techniques – it is my understanding that the oldest complete Hebrew Tanakh [see the Jewish Virtual Library on the Leningrad manuscript I think it is] is some 6 or seven centuries younger than the oldest Gospels, and a thousand than the extant Septuagint papyri.
If someone better versed on these issues has other information, I would be grateful to see it.
One other thing as I derail this thread. This, “is way cool” as they say.
To the best of my casually acquired knowledge, this may be the oldest partial text apart from some inscribed some pottery shards discovered in the hill country … and the details of which escape me at the moment.
Anyway, for those interested : http://www.bpnews.net/17741 or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketef_Hinnom.
Ok that’s it for me.
Saunders, this is your cue: Take it away!
> In the end, he’s going to take all these hills,
And more. Now that his weakness is apparent, his path will fill up with molehills, on all of which he will call in the artillery and launch a frontal attack.
Richard Saunders Says:
August 3rd, 2016 at 4:56 pm
Ymarsakar — first of all, don’t call me or any of the other Trump nose-holders here or anywhere else, “Trump supporters.”
Then what should we call you, allies of a powerful prince in DC-Faction?
The Alt Right has made it very clear that they do not care for moderate allies, only supporters of Trum and the Alt Right’s ideology qualify as useful allies. If they reject you or Trum rejects you, then you aren’t his supporters, just voters. But until they do, you still qualify as being in their faction. The apocalyptic overtones of this election, made it hard to describe people as merely “voters” or “citizens”. This issue has far exceeded that common interpretation.
That’s the problem with being beholden to political factions. One extra little chain they hold on you, wanted or not.
Not only did the Muslims not come after the First Jewish War, which ended in 73, not 75, but they didn’t come after the Second Jewish War in 132-135 (only people ever to revolt against Roman rule twice!, btw). Judea was ruled by the Roman, later Byzantine, Empire until the Muslim Conquest in 638-641.
And the restoration of Israel, the land of their forefathers, took another 2000 years. What is your point?
When prophecies say something happens now and later, usually if it isn’t now, then it is later. And later after 75 AD doesn’t mean a few years in the divine timeline. It can mean any length of time. 650 AD or 2000 AD, doesn’t matter. Latter is latter. After is after. If it hasn’t happened, obviously it already happened or it will happen later. If not, then the prophet is false and that’s a different issue.
Judea was ruled by Christians, for the most part after the Byzantine Emperor converted, although their orthodoxy or lack of it, is open to debate. The Middle East is often referred to as Christian, before the Islamic conquest. This is important in the prophetic sense. Prophets in the Old Testament often could not interpret divine messages accurately or their later translations would miss all the important details. Thus they are not doing what Jewish lawyers or those who wrote new interpretations of the law and history would do. They aren’t chronicling what will happen after each event, as a human lives them. Thus if the House of Israel continues to transgress against God, the god of the jews, then Isaiah’s prophecy will fire and activate. Since Isaiah’s prophecy was around 500 BC, the coming of Christ and the Jewish desire to win a holy war against the Romans, didn’t come for several hundreds of years. That is the “timeline” historians and lawyers don’t like to deal with. So they think divine punishment happens “right” after a transgression, but it usually doesn’t. Moses promised a second messiah to finish his work and law, but that didn’t happen for quite some time as well, and they didn’t bother to set a time for it.
which ended in 73, not 75,
Pretty good going off my memory alone. Although there were 3 rebellions, not 2, from my sources.
The Jews were said to be highly educated, in Biblical history. So highly educated that the things they “knew” began to supersede the actual spiritual content of their compact and covenant with the god of the jews. It was an eternal struggle, even for Jewish prophets and kings, to correct the excesses of their day.
Here is one notable example, from the Jewish rebellion against Rome during Nero.
In the year 66, Florus, the last Roman procurator, stole vast quantities of silver from the Temple. The outraged Jewish masses rioted and wiped out the small Roman garrison stationed in Jerusalem. Cestius Gallus, the Roman ruler in neighboring Syria, sent in a larger force of soldiers. But the Jewish insurgents routed them as well.
This was a heartening victory that had a terrible consequence: Many Jews suddenly became convinced that they could defeat Rome, and the Zealots’ ranks grew geometrically. Never again, however, did the Jews achieve so decisive a victory.
When the Romans returned, they had 60,000 heavily armed and highly professional troops. They launched their first attack against the Jewish state’s most radicalized area, the Galilee in the north. The Romans vanquished the Galilee, and an estimated 100,000 Jews were killed or sold into slavery.
Throughout the Roman conquest of this territory, the Jewish leadership in Jerusalem did almost nothing to help their beleaguered brothers. They apparently had concluded–too late, unfortunately–that the revolt could not be won, and wanted to hold down Jewish deaths as much as possible.
The highly embittered refugees who succeeded in escaping the Galilean massacres fled to the last major Jewish stronghold–Jerusalem. There, they killed anyone in the Jewish leadership who was not as radical as they. Thus, all the more moderate Jewish leaders who headed the Jewish government at the revolt’s beginning in 66 were dead by 68–and not one died at the hands of a Roman. All were killed by fellow Jews.
The scene was now set for the revolt’s final catastrophe. Outside Jerusalem, Roman troops prepared to besiege the city; inside the city, the Jews were engaged in a suicidal civil war. In later generations, the rabbis hyperbolically declared that the revolt’s failure, and the Temple’s destruction, was due not to Roman military superiority but to causeless hatred (sinat khinam) among the Jews (Yoma 9b). While the Romans would have won the war in any case, the Jewish civil war both hastened their victory and immensely increased the casualties. One horrendous example: In expectation of a Roman siege, Jerusalem’s Jews had stockpiled a supply of dry food that could have fed the city for many years. But one of the warring Zealot factions burned the entire supply, apparently hoping that destroying this “security blanket” would compel everyone to participate in the revolt. The starvation resulting from this mad act caused suffering as great as any the Romans inflicted.
We do know that some great figures of ancient Israel opposed the revolt, most notably Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakkai. Since the Zealot leaders ordered the execution of anyone advocating surrender to Rome, Rabbi Yochanan arranged for his disciples to smuggle him out of Jerusalem, disguised as a corpse. Once safe, he personally surrendered to the Roman general Vespasian, who granted him concessions that allowed Jewish communal life to continue.
While that Judea and the tribe of Jews, are what we expected of them. The Zealots also showed another picture, that of blood vendetta driven tribalists more or less. Those who believed in their own self righteous status before God, that no amount of evil or reckless would convince them otherwise.
Jesus came before them in 0-30 AD, and imagine what he would have had to deal with. They weren’t merely debating the theologies of Hillel or other various schools, like lawyers would have in the 20th century US. To the Jews who followed the second messiah after Moses, and to the ones who followed false prophets and gave way to the temptation of war and conquest, the issue was clearly one of life and death. They were willing to go quite far, either way.
There were many reasons why the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem, the Zealots, and various other Jewish factions refused to accept Jesus as the Christ, promised messiah via Moses.
they are additions or different translations-Neo
The prediction of the second messiah is not purely Isaiah or parts of Ezekiel. The record of Moses in the Old Testament, speaks of a promised second prophet, a messiah, to save/continue the work. As for additions or different translations, I’ve seen a different translation of Isaiah. On additions, the entire Bible has been changed and removed/added to, over the histories.
Even the Original Ark of the Covenant disappeared from the Jewish temple. Including Moses laws and stone tablets, to remove from human hands any evidence of divine source or idols.
Thus the Jewish and Christian scriptures were corrupted via translation and transliteration by human hands. The originals were lost, sometimes on purpose. Thus the “interpretation” of how to apply the laws of Moses, after a certain time, would fall into human hands. Specifically the Torah or the Jewish lawyers and rabbis. They would write down decades and centuries of legal jurisprudence, to replace what would otherwise be divine laws and judgment. Divine laws can only come from God, thus only through a prophet. Passing it around hearsay, through human lawyers, or written words, doesn’t count. It’s human knowledge, no longer divine knowledge. Assuming any of this divine inspiration stuff even exists, of course.
The question you have to ask yourself is this: “Can this be proven beyond all doubt today?” It surely can, or else as an ex-ordained Pastor I would not be devoting my life and the considerable time it takes to research this information and make it available to the Christian community in hopes of restoring Biblical truths long lost to Christians due to the Scriptural tampering by the Orthodox Roman Church.
Can divine knowledge by proven beyond all doubt by human knowledge? I don’t think that equation even exists, let alone can it be rendered right or wrong.
If such a thing as divine knowledge exists, then it exists above and beyond mortal comprehension and abilities. Thus “mortal research” is not capable of illuminating the secrets, especially after several organizations and states have hidden them, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls.
The Council of Chalcedon rendered much of 1st AD scripture and teachings, a heresy, and hunted them down with fire and war. The way they came to that decision is rather Lucifer like in its cleverness, but also wrong in a very number of senses. Thus many writings are “apocrypha” because it was rendered unfit for the Bible. Thus the Bible is not the 100% testament of 1st AD Christianity, even if properly translated.
Of course mistranslations exist, since Orthodox Christianity and Roman Catholicism were both state enforced religions. That is no where close to the Christendom of 1st AD.
The Zealots, in the House of Israel, also existed. And such factions would have even more motivation to ensure that the Messiah they would get is the king they sought to win a holy war. And if any messiah refused to participate in such, then they would be labeled a false prophet and persecuted. So the idea that the farther we go into the past, the more “secrets” we recover, is not necessarily true. People were hiding stuff back then as well as today.
In Deut. 18:15 and 18–19 we find the promise that:
“The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him… ‘I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth… If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.’ “
Have to cut this short or else something may happen.
and the true Words of God than lay in shambles in the Bibles that we inherited by the Orthodox Roman Church as it was corrupted and debased by the early anti-Semitic Gentile Church of Rome during the early centuries of its evolution.
That is very illogical and irrational. The Eastern Roman Empire would have done everything they could to prevent Jesus being described as a Messiah, because it was that very Roman Empire that crucified the “King of the Jews” in order to suppress Jewish rebellion. It would make literally no sense for the Romans to consider Jesus a messiah, because Jesus was born a Jew, not a Roman. Only after the Council of Chalcedon would it make sense to portray the Jews as bad and Jesus as the Savior of the Empire.
THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES VALIDATE JUDAISM…AND NOT CHRISTIANITY NOR ROME
What we do find in the Hebrew Bible are verses that show Judaism makes available personal salvation and life eternal through the Torah. The Christian is unwilling to see this, let alone admit this, for if he did, his whole mission of soul salvation for the world would crumble. However, the Hebrew Holy Bible is replete with passages which prove personal salvation is secured through Judaism. Moreover, Jesus also said this in the New Testament itself. In the Gospel of John, 4:22, the New Testament states, “Salvation is of the Jews.” the New Testament states. God is shown in the Holy Bible to have a special relationship, a Covenant, with the people of Judaism, which is perfect, unbreakable, and eternal and it is this “Holy Nation and Royal Priesthood” which is to be a light of this Divine Revelation to you and me.-Neo’s link
The author also sounds as unbiased as a Jewish Zealot in 70 AD.
Just wanted to point that out.
The Jews often believe they are the only chosen tribe, but they forget that God also had a compact with the 12-13 other tribes after the Ark, which were lost, but will be returned again. And if Israel can return to their homeland, as the House of Israel, then anything is possible. Why would the House of Israel’s covenant be any stronger than that of the other tribes?
As for Yeshua the Hebrew Judaic Messiah vs a different Christian Messiah, Jesus, well there were a lot of Jesus and messiahs back then. It was just that kind of setting. Not all of them could be true prophets, merely via human expectations.
The proof is in the pudding. There’s no absolute necessity for a historical debate. The debate can be settled on one thing alone, miracles.
True prophets of God have miraculous powers over elements, such as Moses and the Red Sea. True prophets of God are protected from their enemies, via certain natural or supernatural powers (plagues, defense from fires or lions).
Thus if the House of Israel had followed the true prophet, would they have been destroyed in the Second and Third rebellions against Rome?
No, they would not have. Or at least, Rome would have collapsed due to some miracle, and the legions would have fallen into a crack in the Earth too.
Judea followed false prophets instead, and they did not get that divine power which they were expecting. The Christians, did, unless the success of Christianity before the Council of Chalcedon is attributed to secular power. That would be hard to countenance and argue for, since many secular powers destroyed CHristians whenever they could find them, as they were not the official state religion yet.
Primitive they may have been back then, but even they knew the difference between the Power of the State, and the power of a miraculous God defending his prophets.
To get back to the original subject (although it was a very interesting digression and I love Biblical history and exegesis) –
Here is a contrarian view; I have been following Adams’ blog on the election. This one comes as a testable proposition, if anyone remembers to check on it later.
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http://blog.dilbert.com/post/148413098031/clinton-takes-the-persuasion-lead
In related news, Trump’s comment on Mrs. Khan’s silence at the Democratic convention made the country go nuts for a week. On the surface, it looked like a terrible week for Trump, as team Clinton successfully framed his comment about Islam and gender into something about their son, which it wasn’t. In the long run, you’ll forget Trump’s insult. But you will never forget the optics of Mrs. Khan deferring to her husband on stage. Short term, Trump got slaughtered on that issue. Long term, Trump has enough credibility with veterans that it won’t matter any more than the McCain joke did.
But you won’t forget the visual of the Khans on stage, and the husband looking in charge. That will stick with you. It was a gutsy persuasion play from Trump, but we will never know if it worked. My best guess is that the whole situation is just a bump in a long road.
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Ymarsakar —
“There were many reasons why the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem, the Zealots, and various other Jewish factions refused to accept Jesus as the Christ, promised messiah via Moses.”
As I said, I don’t know or understand anything about Christian theology, but I can tell you the reason why Jews of the time and Jews of today didn’t accept Jesus as the Messiah — because it’s self-evident to us, as it was to the prophets, that when the Messiah comes, there’s no question that the Messiah has come. Stuff happens. Big stuff. Like, “They shall beat there swords into plowshares, their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not threaten nation, neither shall they learn of war anymore. . . Each man shall sit under his own vine and his own fig tree, and none shall make him afraid.”
It’s not the same rotten world it was the day before the Messiah came. And there was just no way the Jews were going to accept that the Messiah had come when the hundred or so years after Jesus’s death were the worst in Jewish history — the time when Judaism came closest to being wiped out. (Yes, closer than during the Holocaust — there were no Jews in the Americas who would have remained after a Roman Holocaust.)
There is another critical aspect of the Jewish understanding of the Messiah, which paradoxically, caused the Jews to reject Jesus as the Messiah and the Romans to execute him as the Messiah. In our tradition, the Messiah is a descendant of King David who will restore the Davidic kingdom.
We sing at the end of every Shabbat:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Eliyahu+Hanavi+Complete&&view=detail&mid=C26FC926863E4A60B8E4C26FC926863E4A60B8E4&FORM=VRDGAR
Elijah the prophet
Elijah the Tishbite
Elijah the Giladite –
May he soon, in our days, come to us,
with the messiah son of David.
The Romans couldn’t have cared less about the Jewish religion; in fact, they thought it was ridiculous. Not working one day a week, not eating certain foods, believing in some weird invisible, extra-universal God — “Those Jews are just plain crazy!”
What the Romans DID care about was rebellion, especially in the roiling atmossphere of 1st century Judea. And restoring the Davidic kingdom would have meant rebellion against Rome, which they were NOT going to allow, as they proved in 73 and 135. When Jesus (or his followers) procliamed him to be the Messiah, that sealed his death warrant. Which is why he was crucified next to a brigand (read “rebel”). Which is also why the sign over his crucifix was in Latin, not the Hebrew in which the Jews prayed, or the Aramaic whcih they spoke and wrote in their daily lives, or in Greek, which the Romans spoke and wrote in their daily lives. Latin, the official language of the Roman Empire, because the execution of Jesus was an offical act of the Empire against a rebel. And that is why the sign read, “INRI,” short for “Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews.” Not Jesus of Nazareth, Upsetter of the Social Order,” or “Jesus of Nazareth, Challenger of Religious Orthodoxy.”
In other words, “Hah, hah, you think this guy is the Messiah who will restore your independence? Independence this, you stinkin’ Jews!” After that, the Jews were never going to accept Jesus as the Messiah.
AesopFan:
I couldn’t disagree more.
Most people didn’t even see the Khans’ speech, and therefore will not remember anything about Mrs. Khan standing there silently. Most people, however, have heard what Trump said, stuff like how how he sacrificed by creating jobs.
Right now it is occurring to people that he is somewhat unhinged. Once you get that perception about a person, it tends to stick. Now, it’s true that people have a pretty short attention span. But if anything will stick about this incident, it’s that, not Mrs. Khan’s silence.
And Scott Adams reminds me—and has long reminded me—of those Obama-defenders to whom every single thing Obama does, including a burp or a fart, is a case of Obama playing brilliant 4-dimensional chess. Adams always seems to think that Trump is playing 5-dimensional chess.
Adams writes about the country getting upset because of Trump’s comment on Mrs. Khan’s silence, as though that was the most offensive thing he said. Absolutely not; Adams either doesn’t get it or has not been paying attention to this one, because the “jobs sacrifice” comment was far far worse.
Adams also writes that it was because of Team Hillary’s powerful persuasion that “the question of Trump’s sanity seemed like a legitimate question for the press.”
Wrong again; wrong, wrong wrong. Hillary Clinton isn’t the least bit necessary for this, nor is the press—the bare bones of what Donald Trump did was quite enough, thank you, to call into question his stability and his judgment, as well as his ability to control his emotions, all things in short supply (and not just lately; right along) with Trump, and all suspect because of his own words and behavior.
It is Trump who has persuaded us that this needs looking at.
Ymarsakar — Oops! I got carried away. I now see by the last paragraph of your 8:42 post that you already knew my last paragraphs.
When links and references to Scott Adams’ Dilbert blog come along as proof of anything, it is an immediate argument credibility crusher right there.
People who read that blog assume they are the exception to the “meat puppet” insult that Adams casts on humanity. Got to hand it to Adams that he insults his own readers, and they completely miss it.
Evidently, Adams assumes he is one of the rare ones who can observe and explain how the master persuader is working without being / becoming a meat puppet and fall under the persuader’s spell himself.
In Adams’ world, it seems the unique qualities that make a master persuader are not really identifiable ahead of time, so we can only know one when there are masses of people who are “persuaded”. Rather scientific that.
Come on, we need to put more serious thought into what’s going on than to give credence to Adams’ high school grade philosophy.
Bottom Line: trump brought this on to himself.
Instead, he is undermining his own message and brand – from a man who is trying to sell us on how media savvy he is, how successful he is, how he can get things done so unbelievably well, how he hires only the best and smartest people, how he can be “presidential” any time he wants, etc.
I read Scott Adams’ blog on Trump for a while. Adams has studied hypnosis, Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP), and other persuasion disciplines. Trump once co-led a seminar with Tony Robbins (an NLP guru among other things) and from this thin reed Adams concludes Trump is a similarly skilled “Master Persuader” and Trump’s campaign rhetoric is a brilliant sequence of consciously-executed persuasion “kill shots” even when they look like blunders.
I studied NLP for a number of years myself and am a certified “Master Practitioner” — not that I think that’s a big deal — and I don’t see it. The NLP teachers I’ve worked with were all very conscious and very much in control. They did not let their personal issues intrude. Occasionally they might be tough to jar a person out of a rut but that would be used sparingly and only after foundation of rapport had been laid.
Whatever skills Trump has as a persuader did not come from any school or books but from a life of street-fighting in business deals augmented by a natural disruptive flair and a lack of scruples when it comes to flattery, bragging, lies and betrayal. That works until people catch on.
If Trump were truly a Master Persuader, he would have his shtick under control and wouldn’t, for instance, attack Gold Star parents in a stupid fashion or behave like a petulant child with all the cameras in the country upon him.
Scott Adams plays a double-edged game. If his ploy fails, he drops back into “I’m a Master Persuader too and I had you going, didn’t I?” Like neo I think Adams can justify anything Trump does as brilliant.
I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Adams. I sincerely hope that what remains of the Conservative cohort of the Republican Party can stop filling out the definitely erroneous breakfast order forms before the last call to board the lifeboats is sounded. Hillary is real and documented -FBI certified. Maybe crazy people can create art, crazy people cannot build buildings – or do you prefer to make your decisions based on the “facts” provided by Hillary’s media augmented by the soon to be disenfranchised Republican Establishment DC Bubble-dwellers?
notherbob2: OTOH sociopaths can build buildings as well as start world wars.
As far as I’m concerned, the last call to board the lifeboats sounded in March or April. Trump voters ignored those calls and now, barring another 9-11 or similar disaster, a Hillary victory is baked into the cake.
huxley Says: I suppose one could argue that a sociopath would never take any action that might result in the destruction of his legacy buildings (which would certainly be targeted in the event of a world war). Such an argument, even if accepted as valid, would, however, only change the claim to “Trump would be reluctant to take action to protect the Country for fear of destroying….” Hope you have enough fresh water in the boat.
I suppose one could argue that a sociopath would never take any action that might result in the destruction of his legacy buildings (which would certainly be targeted in the event of a world war).
However, it would be a poor argument because self-destructiveness is characteristic of sociopaths.
Hitler had no compunction about allowing Germany to be bombed into rubble.
Which is not to say Trump is Hitler or a sociopath but he is farther along on those scales than I like.
Unless you take the Scott Adams reflexive position that everything Trump does is brilliant and therefore Trump’s attack on the Muslim parents was another great kill shot from the Master Persuader, then Trump wasted precious days and credibility, thus damaging his campaign.
Today Nate Silver has Hillary’s chances of winning at 91.7%.
Adams has studied hypnosis, Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP), and other persuasion disciplines. Trump once co-led a seminar with Tony Robbins (an NLP guru among other things) and from this thin reed Adams concludes Trump is a similarly skilled “Master Persuader” and Trump’s campaign rhetoric is a brilliant sequence of consciously-executed persuasion “kill shots” even when they look like blunders.
If Adams has a basic comprehension of NLP, he should understand that the Left’s mass produced version of it in the Leftist death cult, functions more by hypnosis than NLP. NLP can form a rapport, without a person being susceptible to hypnotic conversation techniques. But when Trum is on the media, he can’t rely on his normal hypnotic capabilities or charisma. Some of that doesn’t leak through cameras or social media.
The ones who do use NLP a lot, are the Alternative Right, which contains a faction once called “Pick up Artists”. There’s an entire history online about that one.
TO get to the point, NLP functions on “triggers”. But for people who have not been conditioned, the triggers, say for Trum’s 3 pillars of support, aren’t going to work. Each pillar of support in Trum’s camp, each sub faction, has different triggers. Which is why Hussein and Trum’s trick of appearing to be all things to all people, works so well. They don’t need to use a specific trigger, the audience themselves construct their own trigger to their own fantasies or dreams.
Adams is acting more like a victim and subservient serf, than a master of anything. Promoting mass consciousness and agreement may make hypnotic techniques more effective, but NLP doesn’t need that. Nor do the retail, mass media deception modern politician.
It’s not the same rotten world it was the day before the Messiah came. And there was just no way the Jews were going to accept that the Messiah had come when the hundred or so years after Jesus’s death were the worst in Jewish history — the time when Judaism came closest to being wiped out.
When the god of the Jews sends the Holy one of Israel to the House of Israel, and the House of Israel decides to reject God’s messiah and prophet, what did people expect?
As for people knowing when the Messiah promised by Moses would come, that’s pretty obvious by how many fakes there were in that time period and by a certain other little fact.
http://biblehub.com/matthew/2-16.htm
Herod was the Ruler of Judea at the time. Herod would have good reason to kill the messiah, promised to the Jews and perceived by the Jewish population as a King. Herod even killed his own son for various reasons.
The Jewish recognized Messiah, was the holy leaders who led them in the rebellion which Varus crushed, then the 70 AD one, then the 100+ AD one. All false prophets, all who thought that God was with them, even as they had already denied the Holy One of Israel in name and spirit.
If the God of the Jews is the unchanging and eternal god of miracles, why did the Jewish warriors not receive the divine favor which was due to their faith and fervor? Because they were already in sin and transgression, unrepented.
It is precisely because the Jews accepted the word of false prophets, and denied God’s given Holy One of Israel, that the Jews were scattered as a result of their transgression against God and merely by coincidence, while resisting the Roman Empire. One which lasted about 2000 years, in fact, an exile imposed upon them, so that they would learn what mistake it was that was made. Now the current modern Israel is no longer warlike, thus they won their wars against Arabs and invaders. Thus the modern day Israel is no longer listening to false prophets, thus they have received technological inspiration and direct benefits, agricultural, military, and economic stability. The desert bloomed green. The modern day Israel is no longer a nation of Zealots, thus their flaw is having too much love for their enemies, rather than having too much hate for their enemies. They are not Christians, but that is a minor flaw, given many Christians (Cult of Nice, Westboro Baptists, Hussein’s pastor, Black revs Jackson/Sharpton, Roman Catholics) in the world have little connection to 1st AD Christendom. Israel’s attempt to save the lives of their enemies, even at the cost of their own settlers and people, is truly a behavior that may be Christ like. Perhaps that counts for more in the eyes of the divine than merely what label people attach to their religion.
When Jesus (or his followers) procliamed him to be the Messiah, that sealed his death warrant.
Jesus did not claim to be King of the Jews. That was, if anything, what Herod and his sons and the Jewish leaders of Jerusalem wanted the Romans to believe, since it would get rid of Jesus. Jesus was someone the Jewish leaders did not want to abdicate authority to. Jesus also, as a potential king of the Jews and their messiah, represented a threat to the secular power of Herod and his inheritors.
The mistake of the Jewish people was in demanding a king, to lead them in a holy war to make Judea free of Roman or foreign presence. Throughout the old Testament, there have been incidences concerning God’s prophet leaders telling the people the consequences of installing a king, consequences which the people understood but ignored. And after all of that, the God of Israel, was going to give them a Messiah to be their King? I think not. Their King is in Heaven or is of the divine godhead, not on earth. Having a secular king as a savior, is what abrogates their loyalty to their Heavenly King.
Where is this supposed King that created the state of Israel? By what dynasty did they come from or create?
For nearly 2000 years, Jewish leaders have attempted to win back their kingdom, but they could not overcome the divine power in those prophecies. Now the time of “kings” is over. Still Emperors and Tyrants around.
They shall beat there swords into plowshares, their spears into pruning hooks.
People have been melting swords into plowshare and other tools for awhile now. In Europe, people have a hard time finding sword designs used by commoners, since commoners didn’t bury swords, they reused the metal for something else.
The problem with following the words of false prophets, is that anyone can create human justifications for a Jewish messiah found in the distant future. What they can’t create, is a justification for the punishment of the Jews and the prophecy that the Holy One of Israel would be rejected by the House of Israel, the same under the Covenant.