Home » Part II: moderate Muslims and the concept of religiosity

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Part II: moderate Muslims and the concept of religiosity — 11 Comments

  1. The first premise to be jettisoned is the notion of “radical” Islam as a distinction worthy of consideration. Islam is essentially radical. To appoint to it that adjective is a case of needless repetition.

    Of all the world’s major religions — I refer to Islam as a religion only by the broadest of anthropological definitions — not one has ever been motivated to make a case for the existence of moderate adherents. That Islam, its exegetes and apologists, feel the need to do so, says reams about Islam proper. The greatest revelation in Islam’s history was not Allah’s testament (the Koran) to the Prophet. It was the revelation that Islam could not continue to exist, could not be, would not prevail, if it were modulated — and Islam knows this and responds in kind — desperately having initiated all manner of dogma for the purpose of its continued existence and ascendency.

    Taking Christians as an example — one most familiar to most everyone in America, we find among Christians there are the overly charismatic, read nutcases, read Glenn Beck. There are high church and low church, There are the nominal Christians. And peaceniks, and missionaries, and snake handlers, and sola scripturans, and heretics. Christians, in effect, run the human gamut. Islam recognizes no such gamut.

    Extend to women equality with men… and Islam crumbles. Extend to Muslim’s the freedom of religion… and Islam crumbles. Extend further to all Muslims free will and agency — thereby denying them the justification “Allah’s will” — and… Islam crumbles.

    Islamic duplicity (taqiyya) does not engender confidence in dealing with Islamic States or Muslims; Islamic devaluation of women has made Muslim societies, alone in the world, culturally and socially undeveloped; Islamic disparagement of higher and broader education (anything other than Islam’s religious canons) has made Muslim societies, alone in the world (excepting the static tribes of Africa and lost tribes of West Papua), scientifically and technologically backward. There is no place for Islamic unexceptionality in a world in which Islam remains culturally, socially, scientifically, technologically primitive.

    Islam may not, in a world in which it is one of many religions, demand religious freedom without providing it.
    Extremism in the defense of freedom is graced by latitude, extremism in the pursuit of submission is illegitimate from the start.
    Deny freedom to the one who would proscribe it.
    Deny free speech to the one who would prohibit it.
    Deny freedom of religion to the one who would forbid it.

    Which brings me to Cruz and his vaunted street patrols. They are utter nonsense. Unless, of course, one has it in mind that the American surveillance State be beefed up to three times it present antagonisms – watching, listening, recording, defining, identifying, fabricating, entrapping — people who believe Islam beyond the pale and that Mahomet resides in a circle of the inferno adjacent Satan’s hole.

  2. IMO, ALL immigration has to stop.

    Barry Soetoro has just about Cloward-Piven’d the Hell out of our Welfare State.

    As Milton Friedman well said:

    You can’t have open borders AND a welfare state.

    Further, the folks that are coming in this flood are sure to pull the economy backwards.

    Indeed, if Europe’s experience is any guide ( it is ) we can figure that immigrating Muslims will be on the dole in perpetuity.

    The average IQ of Muslims — native born in Denmark — has proved to be lower than their parents. !!

    What’s going on: regression to the mean.

    Their parents were above average in smarts. Whereas the kids drop right back to the IQ median seen in the Old Country.

    In which case, it’s ~ 79.

    This staggering gap explains why Denmark can’t get Muslim kids to learn at the same tempo as the natives. ( IQ ~101 )

    Indeed, the vast majority of these hopeful Muslims can’t read or write — in any language.

    Considering the way that Muslims stiff girls — and their education — and throw in civil strife — ’tis a wonder that they have any education at all.

    Should we provide exceptions for Christian Syrians — that slot will be gamed by Muslims… fer sure.

    It would be better if the Syrian Christians were re-located to Turkey… and we kicked in some cash to tide them over.

    No devout fanatics would game the system to gain entry to Turkey. They can do that right now.

    It’s much more practical all the way around.

  3. Neo:
    Why do you overlook the fact that Islam requires a caliph to rule? That Islam is utterly incompatible with the Constitution?
    It is not enough to say, “Ah, but most Muslims don’t act on that”. We can’t leave it there. The Koran is the Constitution of Islam. It has not morphed in 1400 years. Amending the Koran is impossible. It cannot morph, so Islam has grown its jihadis for 1400 years.

    How does one make peace with a hostile, murderous opposing force? By not attacking the non-combatants in the rear, the quartermasters and other entities that supply and support the fighting men? By compromise?
    I think not. No way to fight a war to win.

    All Germans were not Nazis, but all Muslims are Muslims. The seed is always there. Which is why the US now has its own “home-grown” jihadis.

    From TheReligionofPeace.com, which keeps score:

    “During this time period [calendar 2015], there were 2858 Islamic attacks in 53 countries, in which 27588 people were killed and 26136 injured.”

    That is a lot of ‘hoods to police. One might conclude it is too many.

    I know your proposals address the here and now in the USA. But, a big but, Muslims come from everywhere to the USA every day, as Trump rightly observes.

    One cannot prevent spread of this sinister malevolent-potential contagion except by isolation and eradication. Anti-biotics (“bios” means life in Greek) are the only apparent answer for this evil infectious ideology that its adherents and we both pretend is a religion.

  4. Frog Says at 6:40 pm

    “All Germans were not Nazis, but all Muslims are Muslims. The seed is always there. Which is why the US now has its own “home-grown” jihadis”

    Very good. Well stated.

    Neo’s analogy fails because German is an ethnic group while Islam is an ideology.

    Islam is vulnerable on many levels and could be easily eradicated or attenuated in Western Countries if those Western Countries were not controlled by leftists who are eager provide Islam with conditions which promote the spread and ultimate triumph of Islam over Western Civilization.

  5. Why does the West under price food exports to OPEC ?

    When Somalis were farming — they weren’t pirating.

  6. Read this NYT opinion piece (via Hot Air) about jihadists.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/31/opinion/the-little-we-know-about-the-jihadists-in-our-midst.html
    Since many of the terrorists in the west are second or third generation, I think there is something to this. I also think you have to weigh in the ability of the first generation to be assimilated and to let their kids assimilate. Much depends on how the fathers raise their sons and how much the strong man idea perserveres within the homes where the kids grow up. Are the mothers respected and allowed to exist as people outside the home? Do boys feel condemned to marry a cousin from the home country or are they allowed to have friendships with girls of their choice?
    Another element is the thug and gang culture the kids are exposed to. Will they be controlled by even more radical thugs they met in jail?
    I agree completely that we should scrutinize people before we let them come here. But we also have to ensure that otherwise rather moderate immigrants are not intimidated by gangs of thugs and crazy imams at a local mosque. We have to be very careful about closed enclaves where their in no integration. And we have to be very careful about letting groups like CAIR become the spokesmen for all Muslims. And finally, we have to get rid od celebrating the whole victim culture that other groups like blacks and gays use to shut us up.

  7. The majority of “moderate” Muslims, by which I mean those who are not active jihadis, will only cooperate with Western countries’ authorities if they believe that the West, specifically the country they are in, is the “strong horse.” You get to be the strong horse in only one way — having power and using it. If the US flattens Raqaa, then goes in and mops up ISIS, and does the same thing in other countries, we will be seen to be the strong horse and will start getting cooperation from the “moderate” Muslims. (Sure, it would be nice if we could get some help from Europe, or KSA, or the other Gulf states, but I’m not holding my breath.)

    So, what I want to hear most about Islam and Muslims is “Tango down!”

  8. RS…

    Such co-operation from ‘moderates’ is fleeting and rare.

    The only instance I can recall was during the Surge in Iraq.

    No Western power ever reports getting support at any time from co-located Muslims — instead — non-co-operation is the universal norm.

    This makes sense when you realize that the imams are KSA ‘imports’ in about 80% of American mosques.

    I presume that the rest are Shia.

    Islamic ‘culture’ is totalitarian and wholly invasive.

    Hence, no-one crosses the line.

    Tips just don’t come in.

    Period.

  9. Tackling the potential problem posed by muslims in America is a sticky legal issue. There are, as neo notes, native born muslims who are either largely secular or who like Christians and Jews, pick and choose which parts of their faith they adhere to. But, the danger posed by islam is impossible to dismiss.

    A first step is to stop all entry from nations where islam is the dominant religion. Secondly, all who enter from elsewhere, who do not hold a US passport, need to be sequestered and throughly vetted. Yes, it means a severe disruption to international travel, but so be it. However, abandoning the Constitution, aka the rule of law, is not acceptable.

  10. Dennis: “Islam is vulnerable on many levels and could be easily eradicated or attenuated in Western Countries if those Western Countries were not controlled by leftists who are eager provide Islam with conditions which promote the spread and ultimate triumph of Islam over Western Civilization.”

    I agree. The non-Muslim world has to stand up and point out the facts. That we cannot coexist with an intolerant religion. That the Salafi/Wahhabi version of Islam requires conversion or killing of all infidels. Point that out and swear that it will never happen. Do not coddle them. Continually point out how their religious tenets are incompatible with freedom of religion and separation of church and state. We have to face them down on the facts, and as necessary, on the battlefield as well.

  11. I had a discussion years ago about something that somewhat pertains to this topic. And I took alot of flack for it at the time. But I believe it still has validity.
    Some of this is an unforeseen side affect of the increasing use of “smart” bombs. By being so precise and limiting casualties. We have allowed the citizens of many of these counties to simply sit things out. And when you think about it its perfectly logical from their standpoint.

    In WWII carpet bombing effected everyone. When a factory was targeted often an entire city could be leveled to achieve that objective. Obviously causing great pain and upheaval in that society.

    Now imagine you are citizen of say Iraq. The Americans have come to in and begun to bomb your country to try eliminate the ISIS threat. We specifically try to limit casualties. You know that unless you are directly involved with terrorists. The odds of you being killed or even hurt are relatively small.

    You also know that the terrorists have long memories and are highly vindictive. And that the Americans since the 60’s have proven extremely fickle and unreliable. Since your immediate safety is relatively high your best bet is to hedge your bets and play things down the middle. Even if you disagree with ISIS. You know the Americans have a limited attention span. And there are fewer consequences (like an entire city being destroyed) forcing your hand in the matter.

    Now I am not saying I am advocating carpet bombing as an alternative to smart bombing. But I believe it had greatly changed both the calculus and politics of waging war. In ways we do not readily acknowledge. Or in some cases even realize.

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