Carly smiles
A more personal look at Carly Fiorina that shows her debate face is not the only one she has:
Here she explains her stern demeanor at the debate (starting around minute 1:46):
The whole smiley-face thing put me in mind of this:
What a great scene.
Here’s a more substantive interview with Fiorina from yesterday:
A star is born and I feel like I discovered her at the fire station in Norwalk, Iowa.
Objectively Carly is bright, articulate, knowledgeable. All together she makes an impressive presentation.
So why the what appears to be pathological hatred for her and her time at HP?
Even if she had completely destroyed HP (which she didn’t) it is after all only a company. The hatred is as if she killed peoples families.
I don’t really get it.
Another point:
Carly (2010), Romney, Foley (in CT), all business execs, all lost to Dem attacks on layoffs, outsourcing, severance packages etc.
How will Carly, this time around, successfully counter the standard Dem meme against Republican business execs???
CArly is a VERY bad choice..
she took HP and caused to lose half its value
turned a top tech company into a moribund thing
the stock nevr went up during her stay there, and went up 7% when they announced her leaving.
but i guess a wet hole makes everything better
cause thats bout all she has that she relies on
she is considered one of the worst tech ceos in history, so bad, not one company has offered her a position since then… not one…
but yeah… lets put up someone who ran a top company into the ground, stook 100 million golden parachute and lies like clinton as to her early years…
if she didnt have that wet hole she would never be on stage… meanwhile, women that deserve it for really being good at what they do, they arent allowed near the podium..
and if that aint it, you let me know what her qualifications actually are… cause Carley is a failed business exec
they even lie as to her being the first head of a fortune 20 company!!!!!!!!!!
TIME
In 2008, InfoWorld grouped her with a list of products and ideas as flops, declaring her tenure as CEO of HP to be the sixth worst tech flop of all-time and characterizing her as the “anti-Steve Jobs” for reversing the goodwill of American engineers and alienating existing customers
besides, she hates white men… and favors women which means she favors the miley world of hookups and screwups running things cause they have the one thing that matters to business, matters to the army, matters to the air force, matters to bruch genner, matters to everyone…
if you dont have a wet hole, you aint nothin..
Fiorina is the chair and CEO of Carly Fiorina Enterprises, a business and charitable foundation A spokesperson described Fiorina Enterprises as “…a nonprofit enterprise that helped Fiorina structure speaking engagements and appearances while providing the public with information about her activities…” The San Francisco Chronicle reported that, as of July 2009, she had “never registered her Carly Fiorina Enterprises to conduct business in California, either with the California secretary of state or the clerk of Santa Clara County, where Fiorina lives.”
good thing she got that 100 million compensation package, otherwise she would be on the unemployment line instead of a podium competing with successful people and having to have a charity that makes her the focus of the charity
“As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and complete narcissistic moron.”
– H.L. Mencken, the Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
Harold:
Laying people off is always going to engender anger. In Carly’s case, if was also revved up against her by the opposition in her Senate run in liberal California in 2010. Now it’s being revived by those same (Democratic/liberal/leftist) forces, plus it’s being picked up with vigor by Trump supporters who realize she’s a potential threat to Trump. That’s what’s driving it now.
I think her being a woman factors into it somehow, too, but I’m not sure to what extent. It is in fact very similar to the Romney/Bain stuff—and that includes the fact that Republican opponents pick up the leftist talking points and use them for their own purposes. I remember Gingrich and other Republican candidates doing that against Romney in 2012.
Harold:
Would America be a better place if the IRS had 90% fewer workers? If the Department of Education was cut in half?
What if H&R Block went bankrupt?
Cui bono?
Ms Fiorina, for all her myriad foibles, seems not to realize (along with the obtuse Mr Wallace) the one fact of reality which is not at all impenetrable and could be easily grasped by anyone less obtuse than a fish swimming in water. The Democrats are full blown Leftists and the only one to fight them is someone from the Right. Ms. Fiorina is not of the Right. She has not yet made her way to shore and evolved sturdy limbs. If you think you will bridge differences with the Left, if you believe you can negotiate compromise with the Left then you, darling Carly, are problematically still wet behind the ears and of absolutely of no use (except perhaps as useful idiot to the Left) in this our cultural, social, political war.
I am not against women, not a misogynist. I was prepared to like her, but no sale. Perhaps she’ll grow up one day.
Maybe she was smiling because she caught a glimpse of Hoy Debate Guy.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/09/17/hot-guy-internet-sensation-internet-debate/32548105/
I meant “Hot” not “Hoy.” That would be on Telemundo.
George Pal:
See this for Fiorina’s upbringing.
I have probably watched far far more Fiorina footage than you, and read more about her (including things she said 15 or more years ago). It is my opinion that she is a conservative, and more conservative in the last few years than she was when she was head of HP. She is able to be more conservative than when she was running in very liberal California, as well.
I do not have a litmus test that says someone must have adhered to every single conservative principle for their entire life. People change, and often as people get older they gravitate more to the right. Fiorina seems to speak with the courage of her convictions, and I pay attention to her affect now and whether I believe she is sincere now, and what she is saying now, rather than requiring absolute and exact adherence to the same positions for her entire life.
Obviously, since I have changed politically during my life, I believe it is possible to change somewhat and be sincere about it. But Carly’s core seems to have always been conservative, and that link I just provided at the outset of this comment is evidence of that.
And I might add that Donald Trump has shown even more of a liberal past, and his present does not demonstrate many conservative principles now. I cannot imagine why any conservative would point to Fiorina’s past and not pay at least as much attention to Trump’s past liberal statements, which are considerably more extreme.
@Artfldgr
I may be getting old, but I don’t recall HP under Fiorina rolling out flops like “Bob” (Microsoft when it was flush with $$$), or “Lisa” (Apple). I do remember the incredible quality of their products, though. Nothing, and I mean nothing, touched HP laser printers and other hardware. (I’m not taking MS or Apple to task for these flops.)
Actually, HP went through 3 CEO’s in 5 or 6 years. Given the horrific economic climate and the question about the direction of the company (hardware, software, both?), not to mention the opening of the US IT market to foreign competition (and labor off-shoring), I wouldn’t be too harsh on Carly on that score (not to mention a meltdown in the NASDAQ – remember Bill Gates crowing about the NASDAQ going to 10,000 not too much before the crash?).
Lastly, you said:
“The San Francisco Chronicle reported that, as of July 2009, she had ‘never registered her Carly Fiorina Enterprises to conduct business in California, either with the California secretary of state or the clerk of Santa Clara County, where Fiorina lives.’”
First, the SFChronicle should be avoided.
Secondly, as the former head of a CA corporation, I can state with some authority that the CA Sec’y of States office should also be avoided. In fact, any official relationship whatsoever with the state of CA should be avoided at all costs. So kudos for Carly if she managed that!
Lastly, that SFC article seems to be hiding something. Who ever heard anything so ridiculous as a non-profit needing to be registered where the principals live? Ha! That’s a new one! [And I also question their claim of the non-profit “doing business” We were a for-profit corp. in CA so I’m not an expert on non-profits, but would a non-profit even “conduct business” as the article claims? I’m not so sure. To me, it appears that they’re grasping at straws otherwise the state of CA would be all over her.]
Anyway, I wish you’d reconsider what you think about her. Maybe some of it is a tad too harsh.
Go Carly!
@George Pal
“Ms. Fiorina is not of the Right. She has not yet made her way to shore and evolved sturdy limbs.”
What in heavens name are you talking about?
Specifics please if you’re going to make a claim like that.
Scott Walker drops out of presidential race. Not really a surprise.
Nice guy, I wish him well.
And hope that he continues to fight the evil forces in his home state.
George Pal thinks he’s the Authority on what is the Right because he hates Bush, Iraq, and other people in America.
Imagine him as a general in a strategic position.
Best wishes for Carly.
She is more of a visionary; Big Picture leader.
And that is fine. She can delegate those duties after she picks capable individuals.
Fiorina has one very huge factor in her favor, which is that she’s already shown that she’s tough, smart, and a leader, and all that merely by having risen in the ranks of the corporate world. That’s not beanbag for anyone, but especially not for a woman.
And about her lacking a smiley face. I’ve always found it especially appealing when a usually serious-faced person breaks into a smile. That sudden lighting up of a face is not only arresting, but signals sincerity.
To Irene, Art’s someone who refuses to capitalize his sentences and the parts that are capitalized, he copy and pasted from other websites and authors, sometimes without an attribution due to lazyness or merely voluminous volume issues.
So that’s the kind of person who is now criticizing a CEO for whatever the Left said about them. To put that into context.
Before we get too excited about Carli Fiorina, perhaps we should check her attitude towards Islam. Here is her revisionist history about the Islamic caliphate after 9-11:
“I’ll end by telling a story.
There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world.
It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climes to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins.
One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities, and its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization’s commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.
And this civilization was driven more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration.
Its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.
When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and passed it on to others.
While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I’m talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.
Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Arab mathematicians. Sufi poet-philosophers like Rumi challenged our notions of self and truth. Leaders like Suleiman contributed to our notions of tolerance and civic leadership.
And perhaps we can learn a lesson from his example: It was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population—that included Christianity, Islamic, and Jewish traditions.
This kind of enlightened leadership – leadership that nurtured culture, sustainability, diversity and courage – led to 800 years of invention and prosperity.
In dark and serious times like this, we must affirm our commitment to building societies and institutions that aspire to this kind of greatness. More than ever, we must focus on the importance of leadership— bold acts of leadership and decidedly personal acts of leadership.
With that, I’d like to open up the conversation and see what we, collectively, believe about the role of leadership.”
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/speeches/fiorina/minnesota01.html
Dennis:
I suppose you missed our previous discussion of that old chestnut from 15 years ago. My remarks begin here, and the back-and-forth goes on sometime after that.
Far from not knowing about that quote of Carly Fiorina’s, it’s been discussed in some depth already here.
Artfl —
Just some of the famous computer companies that have bitten the dust and/or sold for pennies on the dollar:
Control Data
DEC
Data General
Interdata
Varian
Norsk Data
Prime Computer
Xerox Data Systems (nee Scientific Data Systems)
SEL
Wang Laboratories
IBM PC Division
And look who’s not there? Why, it’s HP! Think maybe you got it wrong this time?
Neo said:
“I suppose you missed our previous discussion of that old chestnut from 15 years ago.”
I probably did miss that discussion. After reviewing the discussion Neo linked to, I don’t see that anyone presented any evidence in the discussion that that speech is “an old chestnut” or that Carli Fiorina has changed her mind about Islam. Was there something in the discussion which I missed that shows that Carli Fiorina understands the danger Islam presents to Western Civilization?
@Dennis
“Before we get too excited about Carli Fiorina, perhaps we should check her attitude towards Islam. Here is her revisionist history about the Islamic caliphate after 9-11”
The entire speech is well worth a read so thank you for posting it.
Everyone was being PC immediately after 9/11. But her point in the speech that you quote is mostly about Suleiman the Magnificent. I’m not crazy about most Muslim leaders, but as the head of the Ottoman empire, he was reknowned for his many accomplishments in law, education, culture, and, of course, military successes. He was hardly some stark raving mad Ayatollah.
Frankly, I’m more interested in what she says today about dealing with Islamic terrorism. She’s as tough as they come. Actually, I can’t think of any GOP candidate who is tougher.
@Richard Saunders
You forgot Osborn. 😉
@Dennis
“Was there something in the discussion which I missed that shows that Carli Fiorina understands the danger Islam presents to Western Civilization?”
I haven’t read the exchange, but Carli’s line about the first two phone calls she’d make as POTUS are pretty well known. You have heard it, no?
Neo-neocon, Irene,
Ms Fiorina apparently supports keeping birthright citizenships and allowing anchor babies, calling attempts to change the law a mere “distraction”.
Supports amnesty for so-called “Dreamers”
Supported Marco Rubio’s gang of 8 amnesty bill.
All of these stands are of very recent vintage.
She is not of the Right, however much her upbringing suggests a Norman Rockwell conservative cover-girl upbringing. Anyone of the Right (Man of the Right as alluded to by Whitaker Chambers) would no more compromise with the Left, negotiate with the Left, trust the Left, than a Menshevik ought had. It’s not that I believe Ms Fiorina is lacking in conservative principles, hell, conservative principles positively squirt from GOP/Cons pie holes. It’s that she and the rest seem still to believe they are in Kansas and are talking with Kansans. It’s not Kansas, Carly, it’s Oz.
Ymarsakar,
“George Pal thinks he’s the Authority on…”
You presume, on the basis of an opinion of mine, that I claim authority. I do not. That authority seems entirely a figment of your imagination.
“he hates Bush, Iraq, and other people in America.”
There’s a hot presumption of a febrile imagination. Have a lie down, it’ll pass.
“But her point in the speech that you quote is mostly about Suleiman the Magnificent.”
Here’s what Wikipedia has to say about the activities Suleiman the Magnificent engaged in during his reign:
“Suleiman became a prominent monarch of 16th-century Europe, presiding over the apex of the Ottoman Empire’s military, political and economic power. Suleiman personally led Ottoman armies in conquering the Christian strongholds of Belgrade, Rhodes, as well as most of Hungary before his conquests were checked at the Siege of Vienna in 1529.”
The reason the Hungarians are building a fence is because they have been under the thumb of Fiorina’s greatest empire in the world and they understand the innate aggression inherent in Islam. We also know that the Islamists revere Suleiman. The date September 11 has symbolic significance to Islamists because that is where Suleiman lost in his battle to invade Vienna.
Now, shall we talk about Carli’s other 800 years of Islamic greatness? What about the genocide against Hindus in India in which millions of Hindus were murdered because they were Hindus? What about the Africans and Europeans who were murdered or enslaved by the Muslims?
“Frankly, I’m more interested in what she says today about dealing with Islamic terrorism. She’s as tough as they come.”
Everyone is entitled to change their minds. Does anyone have information that proves that she has revised her approach to Islam?
“I haven’t read the exchange, but Carli’s line about the first two phone calls she’d make as POTUS are pretty well known. You have heard it, no?”
No. What are you referring to?
Dennis:
What she’s said in the past year about present day Islamic terrorism and nations such as Iran shows she understands the danger.
For example, here and here.
Dennis:
Maybe you should do more research on what Fiorina has said in the past year or so. That info Irene is referring to is part of her stump speech.
Dennis:
You’re repeating talking points (from the left and the Trump fans) we’ve gone through before here. I don’t have time to deal with them over and over again; I’m not going to keep doing your homework for you. But Fiorina’s actual views on immigration are stated here.
GWB bought into the religion of peace bullshit after 9/11 and mouthed platitudes about “women of the cloth”. Yet, he pursued a war on terror and correctly identified the so called axis of evil. I found much to my distaste about GWB and the gop majority in congress, but I never questioned his love for America and his determination to protect us from the savages of islam. Fiorina is guilty of following the pc bullshit about the previous wonders of islam, the same could be saidof 95% of the gop.
She has, IMO, had her eyes open the last few years. Unlike the donald, she is a conservative (with a lower case c). The chumps for trump seem to be willing lemmings. Thanks, but no thanks, I do not follow the those who jump off the cliff.
Irene,
“Everyone was being PC immediately after 9/11. But her point in the speech that you quote is mostly about Suleiman the Magnificent.”
If Ms Fiorina wanted to be PC she might have resorted to the trite NAMALT. Instead she spun a tale that no-one had ever heard before.
Ms. Fiorina in her own words:
“I’ll end by telling a story.”
6 paragraphs later:
“While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I’m talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.”
I’m no authority on Sulieman M but I know he was no Methuselah.
She specifically extols an 800 year period beginning, approximately, with Islam’s venturing across the Mediterranean onto the Iberian peninsula, and ending just prior to the Ottoman Islamic empire being repulsed at the Gates Of Vienna.
But here’s the worst of it.
Here you have a woman, mark that — a woman — who had thought it useful to highlight the mythologies attendant to Islam, none of which had ever viewed Muslim women as anything but twice as worthless as Muslim men and infidelles several degrees of magnitude more worthless (worthy of slavery, sexual and otherwise, only). In any age, real or mythological, Islam had a glass ceiling that would have women permanently stooped for being inferior by nature, and second class by doctrine.
And here you have the count of indictment. Here you have a woman born, raised, educated, in the midst of Western civilization, mark that — Western Civilization – who’d trekked to, of all places, the arid dunes, the bat caves, the backwashes, of the Middle East to make a point… I don’t know what of… I’m flabbergasted… it’s beyond my abilities to comprehend.
George Pal:
That’s not a “tale no one had ever heard before.”
It was the absolutely standard tale at the time. I had heard it before. For example, Bernard Lewis, long considered the expert on Islamic civilization (and certainly no wuss on Islamic terrorism), said it:
That’s the sort of thing we heard over and over again both prior to 9/11 and for a while after 9/11. It was what I had been taught and believed, as well, and it does not preclude that civilization being flawed. Many more correctives about the Golden Age came later, for most people.
Nor, by the way, does believing that there was an ancient Golden Age of Islamic civilization, whether that’s true or false, have anything to do with a person’s attitude about fighting Islamic extremism now.
Oh, by the way, what was Europe doing about the status of women during that same period, 800 to 1600? And please read this. Perhaps then you won’t say it’s beyond your abilities to comprehend.
GP,
I agree with you about the “mythologies attendant to Islam”. Their touted mathematics came from the India subcontinent. Islam appropriated the wisdom of India and Greece and branded those achievements as their own. The lazy, uninformed have sallowed those mythologies hook, line, and sinker; much like the untruth of islam’s tolerance of Jews and Christians.
However, I can not sympathize with your animosity towards mark that – a woman – which strays over into artflgdr’s often weirdly psycho comments. Insistence on total ‘purity’ may feel good, but we live in a world of impurity. Many of the ‘pure’ stayed home in 2012 and gave the mannish boy another 4 years to destroy, it may have made you feel pure, but it did the rest of us, including my granchildren no favor.
Neo said:
“You’re repeating talking points (from the left and the Trump fans) we’ve gone through before here. I don’t have time to deal with them over and over again.”
Sorry, I’m still not convinced one way or the other about Carly. I’ll wait and see how her candidacy develops.
I don’t know where I might have picked up Trump talking points since I’m undecided about which candidate I support. The left in general strongly supports Islam in the West, so I’m not sure where I might have picked up talking points from them.
This is going to be a problem for her. A friend of mine who’s an old-school Republican says that she thought Fiorina was “too angry” at the debate; it really put her off. She didn’t like Fiorina’s demeanor.
Margaret Thatcher had to navigate the same narrow straits.
It is possible that Carly was repeating the zeitgeist of the day that Islam is a religion of peace and that the primary job of Western leaders was to protect Muslims from non-Muslims. People can change their minds and I’m leaving the possibility open that she has learned more about Islam since then.
I have enjoyed a few of Bernard Lewis’ books. I have also enjoyed a number of books about Medieval Europe. The intellectual seeds for Europe’s eventual emergence into the renaissance were carefully planted and watered centuries during the so called Dark Ages long before they emerged in full bloom.
Neo-neocon,
The trouble here is threefold: Wikipedia. Islamic hearsay. A plethora of source material, heretofore unknown, unremarked, unbelievable.
“the orientalist Ignaz Goldziher showed that perhaps fifteen percent of medieval hadith scholars were women, teaching in the mosques”
Hadith scholars.
“Islamic scholars are faced with a plethora of source material that has only begun to be studied. [. . .] In reading the biographies of thousands of Muslim women scholars, one is amazed at the evidence that contradicts the view of Muslim women as marginal, secluded, and restricted.”
Two names please of Islamic women scholars in the sciences, philosophy, history, the arts?
“Muhammad’s wives: Khadijah, a successful businesswoman, and Aisha, a renowned scholar of the hadith and military leader. Muhammad is said to have praised the women of Medina for their desire for religious knowledge.
Two names, all in the family, religious knowledge.
“The Oxford Dictionary of Islam states that the general improvement of the status of women in Arab societies (7th Century CE, Islam had not yet made more than a small dent) included prohibition of female infanticide and recognizing women’s full personhood”
Arab Societies, how long had it lasted?
I’m no feminist, but even I can make a case for women in the West, and I have names:
Queen Boudicca, Jeanne d’Arc, Queen Isabella, Queen Elizabeth I, Grace O’Malley, Catherine the Great, Queen Victoria, Christine de Pizan, Jane Austen, the Bronte sisters, Mary Wollstonecraft, Mary Cassatt, Georgia O’Keefe.
Muslimas of influence? Names. Other than Aiysha and Scheherazade.
Parker,
“mark that — a woman”
The phrase had not an inkling of disparagement of the female sex. What it had was irony, that a woman had praised a religion, Islam, that had disparaged women as it had for the entirety of its existence, far above and beyond the extent to which they were held back in the West.
There’s a hot presumption of a febrile imagination.
You must have forgotten all those times you started ranting about Bush II’s problems in Iraq.
http://neoneocon.com/2015/05/09/george-bush-is-smarter-than-you/#comment-892113
Either that or you’re being like the SJW who always lies. Either way.
You presume, on the basis of an opinion of mine, that I claim authority.
After a few years of observing you talking about the same topics in the same fashion, it’s quite obvious how your emotions lead your opinions. That’s a kind of authority sure, though I doubt it does anyone else any good here.
Since your “opinions” make you feel better, I’ll mirror the issue you reflected back on concerning smart cuckservatives in power before. Which is, what good has that done the rest of us? Or do you think that standards for cuckservatives are magically non existent for you as Speaker of Opinions.
She specifically extols an 800 year period beginning, approximately, with Islam’s venturing across the Mediterranean onto the Iberian peninsula, and ending just prior to the Ottoman Islamic empire being repulsed at the Gates Of Vienna.
But here’s the worst of it.
And you think you’re better than her, Pal, because you like to be Bush II’s log that trips him up, when Bush II was fighting a counter crusade against Islam?
Who is worse, some former CEO talking about non existent Islamic glories in the past or Pal here with his opinions trying to cripple a counter crusade in the near present?
Harold sez:
So why the what appears to be pathological hatred for her and her time at HP?
I don’t really understand it either.
It’s easy for so many to speak dismissively of her tenure at HP from 99-04 as a “failure”, without considering that there were a whole host of reasonably well managed tech companies that simply did not survive the dot-com crash that occurred in the middle of that period. Even those that did survive still found themselves changed, often dramatically. The entire business has not been the same since.
(I personally came out of it with my own career intact, but, just barely. Most of my then-colleagues did not. It was not at all trivial to those that were there.)
That HP came through the other side as well as it did, given the overall contraction of the market, the contested acquisition of Compaq (which the board “wanted”), the spinoff of the “real” HP into Agilent (which was already underway before then, and was a key source of contention with the board), while trying to keep customers, shareholders, and employees calm, was, in retrospect, an accomplishment. Especially when one considers the old-boy-network duplicity of the board, which Tom Perkins came to explain much, much later.
She will be denigrated for the loss of 30 thousand jobs, of course. “Evil, greedy, CEO fired 30 thousand people, boooo”. Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands in other companies watched their careers evaporate because of the market contraction. To those of us in that business at the time, “only” 30K now seems…exceptional.
That’s what a Chief “Executive” Officer is faced with. How many of the competing candidates, for the “executive” branch of our government, have ever been through such a process?
(In fairness, I’ll argue that one of those establishment politicians has taken on some truly nasty characters. Unfortunately, he appears to have quit today.)
Good luck explaining this to an LIV or a leftie, though, I know…in their book, if you have checks, go write ’em…
As I’ve read more about Carly in the last several weeks, I’ve come to develop more than just a bit of respect for what she actually has accomplished. She isn’t perfect, but she has taken on some pretty tough situations, and come out reasonably well in comparison.
Skepticism, I get. The hatred, on the other hand, I really don’t.
OK, GP, but although I understand your point about the chattel status of women under islam over the centuries up until today; mark that – a woman sounds like a slight upon western women in general and Fiorina in the specific. There are very few gop and/or conservative male ‘leaders’ who are willing to state that islam is today and has been for 1400 years the most destructive force against the concept of the individual’s inherent right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Islamic doctrine makes communism look like a beacon of freedom. I think we can agree islam is a great evil that must be destroyed without mercy nor quarter given.
Fio and Palin are not popular candidates amongst the New Right, the Neo Reactionaries, the Reddit Gamergate alliance that started the cuckservative propaganda wave. It’s not dead locked or grid locked, but the Left programmed many of them to never trust women in power again, in fact much of their life politics is about NLP or Pick up Artist tricks for Alpha Games.
Generally because they are a reaction to the Left’s heresy, because they were brought up on the Left’s propaganda. They resist much of it, but they go along with a surprising amount that happened in the past. Now a days of course they are fighting, but much of their previous knowledge from say 2005 backwards, was entirely influenced by the Left and they have done nothing to uproot that poison.
“I have such great respect and love for so many of the people – they are great people,” he added characteristically. “I know so many Muslims that are such fabulous people.”-Trump supposedly
Even Trump is said to give lip service to praising Muslims. And not long dead Muslims, but Muslims right here, right now.
Do you see people like Pal here jumping on Trump the way they did on Fio and Bush II? Cuckservative doesn’t just apply to the old guard whites in the GOP.
I think we can agree islam is a great evil that must be destroyed without mercy nor quarter given.
And is Pal going to admit that Bush II ended up killing more Islamic rag heads than Pal ever could have in 5 life times? That’s certainly population control and makes it easier on the rest of the Western communities for when the Jihad invades. Just think of how many jihadists they would have reproduced by now if AQ hadn’t been nearly wiped out by Bush II’s counter crusade in Iraq and Afghanistan.
That is the question at the central crux here. Who is really fighting this war and who is just sitting on a fence casting “Opinions” at the killers on both sides.
There are serious problems about the narrative about Islamic intellectual flowering for 800 years up until 1600. It is true that there was a short Golden Age when there really was some intellectual freedom in Islam, but that was only a few centuries at most at the very beginning of the Islamic empire. Here are three of the flaws in Islam which block intellectual progress.
1. Fatalism.
One of the favorite sayings in Islam is inshallah – meaning God willing. Although the Koran does not specifically exclude free will, the predominant philosophical viewpoint in Islam is absolute predestination in which everything everyone does is preordained by Allah. Some Christians have also toyed with predestination but the are in the minority. When you believe in absolute predestination there is little use in trying to change things since humans are powerless in face of Allah’s power.
2. Allah’s absolute sovereignty excludes natural laws.
In Islam, everything that happens is an individual act of Allah’s divine will. An example of this approach comes from the Koran in the passage that says that each day the sun travels across the sky and, as I recall, at night it hides under Allah’s throne. The next day it asks Allah if it can pursue it’s usual route. In other words, each time the sun travels across the sky, that is a sovereign act of Allah not a natural law. According to the Koran sometime before the end Allah will tell the sun to travel the opposite direction and it will.
3. Al-Ghazali (1058—1111).
500 years before the end of the Islamic Golden Age supposedly ended in 1600, Al-Ghazali wrote the definitive books which essentially closed the door within Islam to further speculation in philosophy. He recommended the death penalty for anyone who asked forbidden questions. Averroes tried to pry the door open again but he failed. Al-Ghazali left the door open for mathematics since mathematics didn’t challenge the veracity of the Koran so there were some Muslim mathematicians after him including a few who were quite good.
Does it matter if our president believes in in the Golden Age of Islam? Can we win against our enemy if we are completely ignorant of their theology, culture, and World view? We are at war whether we want to be at war or not. Islam has been at war with the West ever since the time of Mohammad. Sun Tzu, in THE ART of WAR made the following statement:
“So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.”
Ymarsakar @ 9:14
If your link to my comment – critical of Bush — is meant to demonstrate a rant then I stand by my assessment of your rant – hot presumption of a febrile imagination. You, apparently, will, resist any criticism of ‘conservatives’ and stoop to an ad hominem rant of “hater”. Now where had I seen that tactic before? Yes, it’s a tactic of the LibProgLeft.
“And you think you’re better than her, Pal…”
In this instance, yes, I had never fallen for so great a pretense and consider myself significantly less gullible.
Ymarsakar @ 9:45
“Do you see people like Pal here jumping on Trump the way they did on Fio and Bush II? Cuckservative doesn’t just apply to the old guard whites in the GOP.”
In the event Trump is elected, in the event he fails to do as he said he would re illegal aliens, I shall stomp on him hard. I am no respecter of promises broken or failed presidencies no matter where they may emanate.
Ymarsakar @9:47
“And is Pal going to admit that Bush II ended up killing more Islamic rag heads than Pal ever could have in 5 life times?”
WTF?
Is killing ‘rag heads’ your measure of success? If it is, then by Allah, say something nice about all the Muslims who’d killed more ‘rag heads’ than GWB.
“That’s certainly population control and makes it easier on the rest of the Western communities for when the Jihad invades. Just think of how many jihadists they would have reproduced by now if AQ hadn’t been nearly wiped out by Bush II’s counter crusade in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
Please take a couple of aspirin, lie down, apply cold compresses, think soothing thoughts (killing ‘rag heads’ isn’t one of them). If the fever persists, consult a physician in the AM.
Parker,
Read my comment – George Pal @ 8:26. I am disposed to give women of action and influence their due – not out of any false chivalry but genuine admiration – when it is warranted.
I’m glad people got to see her smile. Now, she just needs to do that a little in the next debate.
Uh-oh: here’s a backgrounder on Fiorina that raises some red flags.
http://thefederalist.com/2015/09/21/carly-fiorinas-identity-politics/
Not just on identity politics, either.
Beverley:
I read that as a shallow and indeed stupid hit piece. Quotes HuffPo ! I think we’d better listen, read and think about what Carly says than read stuff like that.
Dennis:
If you read pundits on the right, blogs posts on the right, and/or comments on the right; or if you listen to talk shows on the right, and watch TV cable news on the right, you have already been exposed to those talking points. They’re everywhere.
parker:
No, it’s not the “lazy and uninformed” that have swallowed those ideas. Bernard Lewis is hardly “lazy and uninformed” about the history of Islam. It is the sort of thing that was commonly taught in colleges to students studying the subject. Whether you agree or disagree, it was hardly the province of the “lazy and uninformed.”
I worked at HP for about ten years, leaving a few years before Carly took over. But I still had a lot of friends in the company as well as stock so I followed the events fairly closely. Most of my friends who stayed with the company grew to hate her but I was more sympathetic to her.
The bottom line though is that while her tenure at HP is defensible it takes a lot of ‘splainin. Profits and hence the stock price languished while she was there and then took off after she left. Some give her credit for the later success but it’s not straightforward since she was there for five years. I could go on but it would involve a lot of HP inside baseball from over a decade ago that most people are not interested in. And that is part of the point too. I don’t think it’s a great base for a Presidential campaign since her leadership of HP is her main credential.
It’s still very early and I haven’t made up my mind, but with everything I’ve seen and read of Carly Fiorina, she strike me as solid, more in line with my take on how the world works, and more likely to be able to capably deal with it than any other candidate out there. I’m not out to elect a woman president – we saw the abysmal result of selecting a president on the basis of irrelevant characteristics last time around. I hope we elect someone who knows how to lead, knows herself and what she does and doesn’t know, and knows her capabilities. For me, right now, that’s Carly. My mind is open, and I’m willing to be further informed. Let’s just do it right this time.
One slam on Carly I do NOT agree with is taking her to task for losing the Senate race in 2010. California hasn’t elected a Republican to the US Senate in close to 30 years (Pete Wilson 1988). She lost by 10 points, but McCain and Romney lost the state by well over 20.
Neo said:
“you have already been exposed to those talking points. They’re everywhere.”
I’m not sure how quotes from an article a candidate wrote in the past has become “talking points.” I didn’t just take someone’s word about what she said. After I read the “talking points,” I took the time to look up the original speech from the HP website and tried to put the statement in context. So what’s the problem? Should we put statements a candidate made in the past off limits?
I’m open to the possibility that she has a different opinion today than she did then but so far the “talking points” on the other side haven’t really been convincing. Saying that she wouldn’t admit any Syrian Refugees right now is because we can’t vet them properly is certainly a step in the right direction, but that doesn’t mean she has grasped the fundamental differences in the world view between Islam and the West. She might get it, but I have not seen any information yet that convinces me that she does or does not.
I wish the critics of post 9/11 would get off their sofas and try to see a world-wide picture of what we face. Had Americans taken the Islam-bashing tone that many want, would the governments of Morocco and Jordan still be standing or would radicals have succeeded there in arousing the masses? Would we have had any access to Afghanistan through Pakistan? Do Bush’s critics have any idea of what Bush did to keep Pakistan somewhat contained through the Musharrif/Bhutto upheavals? How many more terrorists might have been recruited in our own mosques or how many loose cannons would have been empowered to attack the somewhat quiescent Muslims in our country?
By recognizing that Islam did achieve some things back in the day, we give Muslims something to hang onto. It’s not much different from our own resistance to leftists who now want to condemn our founders and erase them from history because they didn’t eliminate slavery.
In much of the world, Muslims have gone within years from relatively isolated strong-man villages to an internet-connected youth who don’t quite know how to deal with the porn and depraved pop culture they encounter. Their fathers can’t guide them because they want to retain power.
One more thing in defense of Bush: how many know how the bank meltdown was viewed abroad? Without TARP, there would have been far more upheaval in world economies and the US would have gone down even further in world opinion and our trading partners would have faced greater pressure. Bush was very aware of what was happening abroad. He sometimes delayed speeches or actions so they would not negatively affect foreign elections. In a world where many still idolize Snowden and Assange with the help of their media, it doesn’t take much to give those loonies more power, and in multiparty parliamentary systems this can have devastating effects.
Last night, CNN Internation was talking about the percentages of Republicans who think Obama is a Muslim. The point was to show how multiculti the moderators are and show how ignorant the right is. They want to make sure that conservative ideas never take hold abroad. International viewers do not know that Americans are reacting to the way Obama refuses to acknowledge radical Islam and insists that Fort Hood was simply another case of workplace violence. They don’t know that many Americans are evaluating Obama through the lenses of bitter clingers and Reverend Wright.
I urge conservatives to try to be more specific in their speech and criticisms so that we can’t be painted with a broad brush as ignorant bigots. It is possible to stand for your principles in a more effective way.
Expat
Interesting post
I don’t have any idea whether studying Islam, trying to understand the World through the eyes of a Muslim, and telling the truth about history and about the huge cultural and moral gap between Islam and the West would have had any effect on either Jordon or Morocco. I don’t think that it is the job of the president of the United States or anyone else for that matter to tell untruths or to invent myths in order to give Muslims something to hang onto.
I agree about the damage that the porn and depraved pop culture does to our image in Muslim countries. In my opinion, that pop culture probably contributes more to Muslim rage and disrespect for the West than anything else we could possibly say or do. On the other hand, having the freedom which makes that pop culture possible is priceless. If angering Muslims is the penalty we have to pay for that freedom then so be it.
I also agree that Bush handled the economic meltdown quite well. I forget which member of his administration, perhaps Paulson had studied the Great Depression and took the necessary steps to prevent a recurrence. TARP was absolutely essential and as you say helped to prevent greater problems. The Obama administrations contribution to the effort was to continue the remedies Bush and his team had set in place.
It’s been a few years, but I remember an interview with a top official in Pakistan who said that the reason they provided air access to Afghanistan is because Bush threatened to bomb them if they didn’t cooperate. If Bush’s sweet speech about Islam the religion of peace had anything to do with his decision, he didn’t say so.
I realize that it is unfair to blame Bush for Obama’s failures, but in hindsight his foreign policy has not worked out well. Perhaps if America had stayed the course in Iraq and Iran there would have been some benefit from Bush’s foreign interventions, but as it is, I’m not sure exactly what have we accomplished in Afghanistan or in Iraq. We obtained access and we fought a war in Afghanistan, but have we really changed anything on the ground in the long run for the Afghans or have we just tilled the soil with bombs and left? Following the present policy, what have we done to effectively steer Pakistan away from radicalism?
Perhaps it matters to you since you have to deal with them, but I really couldn’t care less whether the Europeans think we are crazy or not. The question about Obama’s religion is completely legitimate and deserves a truthful answer. Daniel Pipes, a scholar who is hopeful for a reformation within Islam, has provided an impartial and thoughtful discussion about the issue here:
http://www.danielpipes.org/11952/obama-muslim-childhood
Dennis,
The Dems sold out Bush even before he was inaugurated. They lined up for the opening of Michael Moore’s movie. Moore’s books sold better in Germany than in the US. The international press never stops in its effort to tell others how dumb and corrupt the Reps are. A certain group of academics sits in Cafe Einstein in Berlin and tells Europeans the same stuff they peddle on Harvard Square.
A few years ago, I saw the former Green who was a supporter of the RAF and who later switched to the Social Democrats and became minister of the interior (responsible for security) praise John Ashcroft for his work on security after 9/11. It’s amazing how having some skin in the game changes perceptions.
And now after the VW scandal, many do-gooders here will have to reassess their moral superiority regarding the environment.
That movie clip is hilarious. TY for the laugh.
BTW, the screenwriter might been inspired by Wodehouse where Bertie tells a joke the wrong way as he repeats it.
expat said:
“A certain group of academics sits in Cafe Einstein in Berlin and tells Europeans the same stuff they peddle on Harvard Square.”
Well stated expat. I love the image of a bunch of academic pinheads sitting in Cafe Einstein luxuriating in their Anti-Americanism! The symbolism of European academics sitting in a German cafe pontificating about their moral superiority is especially rich since Einstein was a Jew. Seriously, why should anyone, with the exception of people like you who have to deal with them face to face, care about what they think.
Them American academics are busy, busy, busy:
Cass Sunstein, Jade Helm and Laboratory America.
Yup!
My name is Charles Nielsen and I was an employee with HP from 1/2000 until 8/2001. I worked in the Boise, Idaho Data Center. I was the sole Customer Engineer allowed to work on Carly’s Private Server. It was kept under lock and key and I was the only engineer allowed to work on it under the direct supervision of the Data Center Manager; I was new to the company and was used as a dupe. In March of 2001, just before Carly Fiorina had taken control of HP from Walter Hewlett, I was asked to remove the 5 hard drives from her personal server and physically destroy them with a hammer. I asked why I would destroy hard drives that at the time were worth over $15k apiece and I was told because she said so. Shortly after destroying all evidence of her conspiracy to take over the company she removed Walter Hewlett from the board of directors and made off with approximately $500 million dollars from the company with the rest of the board of directors ($100 million for Carly personally). All of her emails and all working documents were destroyed. I have kept my silence until now when I find it highly offensive that after laying off close to 30k workers and sending stock prices into the gutter ( $55 a share when Fiorina took over to a little less than $20 a share under her leadership) she is pretending she would never behave like Hillary has. Carly Fiorina is as corrupt as they come.
Carly smiles:
Carly Fiorina to Fallon: Ben Carson ‘Wrong’ on Muslim President
We need a Scottish bagpipe.
Standards and boundaries ladies! Standards and boundaries ….
I realize that it is unfair to blame Bush for Obama’s failures, but in hindsight his foreign policy has not worked out well.
How is that different from American efforts in Vietnam?
As I told Neo Neocon, if the next President reverses and sabotages the previous President’s plan, there’s no way people can support and ally with America. That’s why they don’t, except by giving false fealty and lukewarm superficial support. They, and the Iraqis knew this as well as others, knew that Americans were weak and had little value on loyalty.
A nation’s foreign policy doesn’t work merely due to the efforts of one person. Nor did FDR save the country. The country saved the country. A nation is where everyone pulls together for the common cause, and the fact that America has been divided along ideological faults since 1840 is why Civil War II is in the near future: the fate of a nation.
No one person could have changed it, any more than one Roman Emperor could save Rome in 530 AD.
The world doesn’t fear, respect, or blame America for the foreign policy. The world fears America because her power is tied to insane interests. They blame America because that is the natural emotion of the oppressed towards cruel or unstable masters.
The Left has had something to do with that too. America never had the power to change the fate of other nations. It required more than one person, more than one nation, and more than some faction in a nation, to generate self change. Ultimately, America couldn’t even change the fate of her own people, thus the nation does not have the power to change the fate of other nations. Not any more at least.
is meant to demonstrate a rant
As for Pal, that’s just one of your milder posts I ended up finding. It doesn’t include the ones about Iraq which you went on and on, although over an extended period.
Is killing ‘rag heads’ your measure of success? If it is, then by Allah, say something nice about all the Muslims who’d killed more ‘rag heads’ than GWB.
It’s one standard of success, but not the only one. The fact that you have nothing to say to that means your standard of success is what exactly; being a Master of Opinion here that is supposed to help fight the Left vs all the other cuckservatives white knighting people that you think you’re standing over as a superior specimen, eh.
What a pathetic piece of drivel your opinions come out as when surgically spliced apart. You can’t even provide any substantial defense to your own ranting about Bush and Iraq, which you felt so strongly over years ago. Is that the extent of your emotional based logic? Rather weak sauce from this pov.
If it is, then by Allah, say something nice about all the Muslims who’d killed more ‘rag heads’ than GWB.
Why would I, an enemy of Islam, praise Muslims for getting each other? They merely consolidate their power and rape capitals, allowing them to move together as one in a prepared invasion.
It is not my place to praise the killing power of enemies, only to recognize it and counter it.
No, it is the place of cuckservatives and ankle biters like you, Pal, to praise the enemies of Western civilization. Since, after all, they are one of the mightiest thorns in the side of people you are prejudiced against, whether this Republican or the last Republican matters not.
Who should kill an enemy, is the enemy of that enemy. It is not for others to steal the joy of the hunt. And certainly not someone like you, Pal, Mister Opinion Projector.
In the event Trump is elected, in the event he fails to do as he said he would re illegal aliens, I shall stomp on him hard. I am no respecter of promises broken or failed presidencies no matter where they may emanate.
You must be under the delusion that Bush II is still President or that Fio has been President of the US then.
Your attitude is very different for people you despise vs people you would give power to. But that much is to be expected.
As if someone like you, Pal, would ever gain the power to stomp on Mr. President Trump once he obtains the power of said office, even in a diminished American Regime. I wonder why you think you’re superior to Bush II and Fio, making promises you must know you cannot fulfill.
Ymarsakar,
Our adventures in Iraq, in my estimation, were an utter failure, and had become so under GWB. The propensity of American military might seems all of, and nothing more, than ‘shock and awe’. If you disagree, fine, by all means do so, but refrain from blaming me for merely noticing that failure.
My standard of success is what exactly? Under the circumstances it would be to not engage in what you cannot manage. It would be not to sacrifice an American soldier’s life and limb for nothing more than leaving him to the untender mercies of the VA — so corrupt that a “Wounded Warrior Project” had become necessary to tend to them. It would be not to involve ourselves in killing ‘rag heads’ while importing them into the country.
“Surgically spliced apart”
I see now how you had become so muddled. Things are spliced together… not apart. Now that you know, perhaps you’ll make a better showing in your fulminations.
”…cuckservatives and ankle biters like you, Pal, to praise the enemies of Western civilization.
One instance, just one, of my praising the enemies of Western Civilization. Left or Islam. Take my observation that on the whole the two have been smarter than Western leaders, and you have not praise but lamentation. I take it you would not challenge the daily-made-manifest assertion.
“As if someone like you, Pal, would ever gain the power to stomp on Mr. President Trump once he obtains the power”
Not only are you muddled about ‘splicing’ you seem unaware of ‘metaphor’.
“I wonder why you think you’re superior to Bush II and Fio”
Again, why should an expression of disapproval presume superiority? It’s no easy task to determine what ails you from a distance, but I believe you read too much between the lines and far, far too much into the spaces between the words. Stop it! You are not good at it.
I had once an occasion to disagree with Edmund Burke when I’d read the following:
“…the Mahomedan law, which is binding upon all, from the crowned head to the meanest subject; a law interwoven with a system of the wisest, the most learned, and most enlightened jurisprudence that perhaps ever existed in the world.”
– Edmund Burke, “Speech in the Impeachment of Warrent Hastings, Esq.”
I believed him to be wrong, monstrously wrong in this instance, but I hadn’t thought myself superior to him. My superiority is no more than a figment of your deep inferiority complex.
I’ll not provide any more tutorials. If you’re having problems with reading comprehension, I suggest you seek out your local learning annex. If, by chance you happen to be ‘differently abled’ then, never mind.
Superior only to Ymarsakar,
George Pal
Art:
If your September 22nd, 2015 at 12:08 pm post is true that’s yuge news; Are you Charles Nielsen? If so, why haven’t you gone to CBS ABC NBC PBS CNN WAPO NYT LAT with your story? Actually, why didn’t you go to them months ago? Come to think of it, why haven’t you mentioned it before here?
If you’re not Charles Nielsen, then why no quotation marks or attribution? It reads like you’ve finally disclosed your true identity here at neo-neocon.com. Please clarify and elucidate!