First case of ebola transmission in US is a Dallas health care worker…
…who treated Thomas Eric Duncan.
I was wondering when the first US transmission would occur. I was hoping against hope it would not occur, but thinking that transmission was almost inevitable.
It is of interest that the first person to exhibit symptoms from US transmission is a health care worker who treated Duncan rather than a family member or friend who encountered him prior to his admission to the hospital. Of course, that doesn’t mean the latter group is out of the woods, not by a long shot. But it does suggest, if this pattern holds, that caring for an ebola patient in the later stages of the illness, even with protective gear, may be more dangerous than being around such a patient in the earlier stages—even though the delay in Duncan’s diagnosis meant that his family was around him, unprotected, as his symptoms become quite bad.
But the pattern of transmission here matches the pattern of transmission in Spain, which is that it occurred in the hospital under conditions that were supposedly in accord with recommended ebola-treatment protocol. And in each case, authorities have assumed there was a breach, and that this is what accounts for the transmission.
You may recall that the Spanish nurse’s assistant who got the disease had treated the Spanish priest (who’d been transferred to the hospital in the later stages of the illness, with authorities knowing full well what he had and employing the supposedly proper techniques to prevent transmission) very briefly, towards the end of his life, and then helped clean up his room after death. She is supposed to have breached protocol in the removal of her gloves, by touching her face. In the case of the Dallas transmission, it is also being blamed on a breach, this time an assumed one:
…[Dr. Daniel Varga,] a top federal health official said the health care worker’s Ebola diagnosis shows there was a clear breach of safety protocol and all those who treated Thomas Eric Duncan are now considered to be potentially exposed.
In addition [emphasis mine]:
…Dr. Tom Frieden, head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, on Sunday raised concerns about a possible breach of safety protocol and told CBS’ “Face the Nation” that among the things CDC will investigate is how the workers took off that gear ”” because removing it incorrectly can lead to a contamination.
“I think the fact that we don’t know of a breach in protocol is concerning, because clearly there was a breach in protocol,” Frieden said. “We have the ability to prevent the spread of Ebola by caring safely for patients … We’ll conduct a full investigation of what happens before health workers go in, what happens when they’re there, and what happens in the taking out, taking off their protective equipment because infections only occur when there’s a breach in protocol.”
Maybe yes. Maybe no. Maybe we just like to think that “infections only occur when there’s a breach in protocol,” because it’s even more frightening to consider that the current protocol may be inadequate. But one of the hallmarks of this particular outbreak has been that transmission to health care workers has been more frequent than in previous ones, and that sometimes the people who have been infected in this manner swear they’ve followed the rules. Officials have assumed the workers have breached protocol without realizing it, especially in Africa where conditions include heat and overwork, and sometimes poorly-trained personnel. But some of those who were infected there have been the top doctors working on the disease.
The fact that there have been two transmissions in the west, and both have involved health care workers who supposedly were in proper gear, is extremely troubling. But this entire thing is extremely troubling; we are in a heap of trouble. It is also very troubling (at least to me, although not very surprising) that officials don’t seem to take into consideration the fact that they may have to go back to the drawing board on protective gear.
And yet, what are the odds of seeing a West Africa travel ban here? I think they are very very low, unfortunately.
[NOTE: The article I linked to above is a model of how I believe reporters should be writing about Duncan and what he knew about his own exposure:
Duncan arrived in Dallas in late September, realizing a long-held ambition to join relatives. He came to attend the high-school graduation of his son, who was born in a refugee camp in Ivory Coast and was brought to the U.S. as a toddler when the boy’s mother successfully applied for resettlement.
The trip was the culmination of decades of effort, friends and family members said. But when Duncan arrived in Dallas, though he showed no symptoms, he had already been exposed to Ebola. His neighbors in Liberia believe Duncan become infected when he helped a pregnant neighbor who later died from it. It was unclear if he knew about her diagnosis before traveling.
Which of course doesn’t stop some people in the comments section there from blaming him.]
[ADDENDUM: One more thing—anyone who is involved in the treatment of this new case had better be extra careful. And each and every one of them deserves a medal, and combat pay. If you’re the praying sort, you might want to pray for them.
And for all of us.]
Neo: “But some of those who were infected there have been the top doctors working on the disease.”
I assume the top doctors in Africa confronting an emergency and national crisis will practice state of the art medicine, even if the rest of the medical field in the region falls far short. As such, as seems apparently the case, that our medical experts haven’t already minutely studied every detail of the infection of the top African doctors and seem to be repeating the same mistakes, whatever they are, is very troubling.
“it’s even more frightening to consider that the current protocol may be inadequate” and that Dr Friedan knows this and is purposely avoiding that possibility.
Dr. Tom Frieden, head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is a 2009 political appointee of one Barack Obama.
“And yet, what are the odds of seeing a West Africa travel ban here?” I think they are very very low, unfortunately.
Non-existent until an epidemic breaks out.
The interrelatedness of the above factors is obvious and the connecting link is one Barack Obama.
But IMO it is not a case of unfortunate incompetence but of intention, Obama is doing this on purpose.
Was a medic during the Vietnam War era, and sometimes worked as a special duty nurse in a hospital, suited up in mask, gown, and sometimes gloves, working an eight hour shift caring for just one usually injured patient who was also infectious, and who had been placed in isolation–a far cry from being suited up in a virtual spacesuit as I have seen some of those working with really infectious diseases today outfitted.
Minimal and sloppy as those protocols were back then, even they were not easily adhered to and, careful as I tried to be, I probably contaminated myself multiple times during each shift. Luckily, the diseases I had to deal with were nowhere as lethal or as easily communicated, up close and personal, as Ebola apparently is.
There is speculation by some scientists that Ebola can be transmitted by other than direct contact with bodily fluids, or that it could mutate to become so. But, we don’t really know for sure, because of the cloud of confusion that had been generated by various statements, often coming from spokesmen for a government apparatus that, so far, has a record of fumbling and stumbling, and a political agenda focused on keeping panic among the public tamped down.
I fear that a lot more people will have to become infected before the Obama administration finally gives in to common sense and institutes a ban on travel from West Africa, cuts the crap, and gets some medical experts–not government bureaucrats, spin doctors, or politicians–in there to fight this disease here in the U.S.
If you rigorously follow the protocol, it is probably sufficient. However, I doubt 100% compliance, even in those cases where the careworker is actually afraid of being infected. I suspect the protocol itself is what the CDC has deemed the minimal level required. As far as I can tell, these people are not being cared for in facilities and suits as one might find in a highly contagious disease laboratory at the CDC itself.
I can tell you right now- given the cases in Africa, Spain, and now the US, if I were a nurse or a doctor, you couldn’t pay me enough to care for one of these patients unless it was someone I knew and cared for. I pray the cases do not spread further in the US, since I doubt my attitude isn’t a majority one.
“I fear that a lot more people will have to become infected before the Obama administration finally gives in to common sense”
Count on it, Obama has made it crystal clear that he will not institute a ban until it is politically unavoidable. But even then, he will do it in half-measures.
“The collapse of a complacent bureaucracy in the face of an emergent threat usually goes through 3 phases. Denial. Confident half-measures. When the half-measures don’t work there is finally panic; full-blown, shameless panic which either manifests itself in a bugout or in the demand by authority for absolute power to contain a crisis which only last week they declared did not exist. These psychological phases are remarkably constant throughout history.” Richard Fernandez
Since ‘bugging out’ isn’t an option in the modern world, does anyone doubt that, if the crisis is severe enough, that Obama will not demand authority ‘sufficient to deal with the national emergency’? Or that, in such a crisis, a RINO GOP will refuse him that authority?
Obama cannot create such a crisis but he can certainly increase the odds of such a crisis emerging and I defy anyone to describe what public measures he could take to facilitate such a crisis that he isn’t already doing. No ban on direct flights into America, an open southern border and 3000 American soldiers in the epicenter of the epidemic with many handling Ebola laden blood samples.
Raise the draw bridge! Close the gates! We clearly do not have a handle on how health care workers can protect themselves. Hospitals do not have the “protocols” and equipment to deal with ebola. Until we do, bringing more people in is nuts.
On Fox’s Sunday “House Call” medical program today the two doctors got loud an testy with each other on the issue of shutting down flights. One guy was saying we don’t want to panic people. The other guy was saying we don’t know how to handle this and we don’t have the facilities. Until we do, stop air travel from the affected areas.
“The World Health Organization is sending doctors to countries where the virus is most prevalent – Liberia, Guinea, Sierra Leone and Nigeria. Fusion’s Jorge Ramos spoke to one of the doctors, Dr. Aileen Marty, who recently returned home to Miami after spending 31 days in Nigeria. She says she was surprised what happened when she arrived at Miami International Airport.
“I get to the kiosk…mark the fact that I’ve been in Nigeria and nobody cares, nobody stopped me,” Marty said.
“Not a single test?” Ramos asked her, surprised.
“Nothing,” Marty answered.”
http://fusion.net/video/20107/dr-aileen-marty-tells-fusion-what-she-saw-fighting-ebola-in-nigeria/
“On Fox’s Sunday “House Call” medical program today the two doctors got loud an testy with each other on the issue of shutting down flights. One guy was saying we don’t want to panic people.”
So… let’s just increase the odds that an epidemic will erupt?
“infections only occur when there’s a breach in protocol,”
I think the first breach in protocol was allowing flights from contaminated countries continue. Do not fear, that will not be widely reported.
“Which of course doesn’t stop some people in the comments section there from blaming him.”
By now Mr. Duncan’s behavior shouldn’t be important. However with the race hustlers in play his beautification has already begun. So yes, the fact that he knowingly handled a sick patient. After all the different reports we have heard, I’m surprised that Neo thinks she actually knows that Mr. Duncan was truthful especially since officials in Liberia believe he lied.
““He lied on his form,” Mr. Kesselly said. “If he had answered truthfully, he would have been sent to secondary screening immediately and not allowed to leave.
Mr. Kesselly said Mr. Duncan would be prosecuted upon his return.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/03/world/africa/dallas-ebola-patient-thomas-duncan-airport-screening.html?_r=0
Before we beautify Mr. Duncan let’s see what people back in Liberia said:
“About Duncan being aware of his medical condition before he left Liberia, his former boss, Mr. Henry Brunson, 60, manager of SafeWay Cargo, a licensed agent of FedEx, agreed that Duncan knew that he was infected with the virus, having directly participated in efforts to help save the life of his landlord’s daughter, who was pregnant.”
also what about the taxi driver who was with Duncan and the sick woman? He knew:
“Meanwhile, Grugbaye, the taxi driver, who looks healthy at the moment, said after they had been rejected at all of those health facilities, knew that something wasn’t right about his sick passenger’s illness.
“When I got home, I chlorinated my entire vehicle. I repeated it the next day before I got back in the traffic,” he stated.
He told the Daily Observer that he felt feverish on Wednesday and visited a “German Clinic”, where he was treated and discharged few hours later the same day. He, however, said he is willing to be placed under quarantine by health officials.”
Sorry, here is the link for the previous post.
http://www.liberianobserver.com/news/man-who-took-ebola-us-will-be-%E2%80%98prosecuted%E2%80%99
Don’t like that link? Let’s try another one:
“”We wish him a speedy recovery; we await his arrival in Liberia” to face prosecution, Binyah Kesselly, the chairman of the board of directors of the Liberia Airport Authority, said.
Deputy Information Minister Isaac Jackson confirmed that Mr Duncan would be prosecuted as he “lied under oath about his Ebola status”.
Before the briefing, Mr Kesselly told the BBC that Mr Duncan had answered “no” to all the questions on the Ebola form, which includes one about whether the traveller has any relatives sick with Ebola.
Assistant Health Minister Tolbert Nyenswah explained at the briefing that he was investigating Mr Duncan’s movements before he left Liberia on 19 September.
He said Mr Duncan works as a driver in Liberia for Save-Way Cargo, a subsidiary of the international courier service FedEx, and lives in the Paynesville 72nd Community suburb of Monrovia.
Eric Vaye, a neighbour of Mr Duncan’s, was also at the briefing to help with contact tracing, and said that nine people had died of Ebola in the district in recent weeks.
Mr Duncan is alleged to have pushed the wheelbarrow when taking a sick relative to a clinic.
Our reporter says this is banned and people are obliged to phone a hotline number to ensure that patients are collected by health workers so further contact with sick people is avoided.”
http://www.canaafrica.org/index.php/africanews
I believe that Neo has established that Duncan had made his travel arrangements before the exposure. That does not in anyway establish that he was honest about his exposure to Ebola. Perhaps Neo has posted additional information which establishes that Duncan was honest which I have overlooked.
No said:
“Maybe we just like to think that “infections only occur when there’s a breach in protocol,” because it’s even more frightening to consider that the current protocol may be inadequate.”
By now the CDC and other government officials involved in this sorry affair have lost credibility. Perhaps they and Obama are the only ones left who still believe that their protocols are adequate. It would be interested if they would be so certain of their protocols if they themselves or their families were the ones whose lives depended on those protocols.
Saw Dr. Tom Frieden’s press conference this morning and was not impressed. First he says that they don’t know how the Dallas nurse got it, and them almost immediately after claims that it was from a breach in protocol. Which is it? Sounds like it’s they’re best guess that it was a breach being communicated as fact.
Also saw the Fox doctors’ heated exchange. Would it surprise anyone to hear that it was likely NBC’s Dr. Snyderman who broke the containment agreement that prompted the quarantine order for her and her crew? Not sure I’m going to put faith in media doctors.
We watched Contagion last night and it was interesting to see how the filmmakers depicted the internal debates and politics of CDC, WHO, etc. Can only imagine what’s happening outside of the media glare, especially between the CDC and the White House given Obama’s apparent refusal to acknowledge any disease outbreaks (EV D68, TB, Chicugunya, Ebola) that might threaten open borders/amnesty.
At today’s press conference appearance by the head of the CDC to announce the likely second case of Ebola, he was asked by a reporter why those suspected of having Ebola were not transported to a secure containment facility, one especially set up to deal with such a deadly virus, rather than letting suspected or confirmed Ebola patients be treated in hospitals that had neither the high risk containment facilities nor the highly trained staff, experience, and specialized equipment to do the job.
To which he replied with some nonsense about hospitals around the country needing to get up to speed about how to deal with Ebola, thus making the current Dallas incident into an example of very deadly “on the job training.”
From this comment, it seems like the decision not to remove patients to more secure and capable treatment centers able to more effectively deal with them is not a scientific but more of a political decision, one designed to demonstrate confidence, and that “they’ve got this covered,” a symbolic act, designed to ward off panic.
Perhaps all well and good if we had confidence that the powers that be knew what they were doing, but after their performance so far I, for one, certainly don’t.
Hm. One of the arguments for Obamacare was that too many people were getting treated in hospital emergency rooms. Looks like he’s solved that.
I think what Wolla Dalbo said is right — that the decision not to send all Ebola cases to one of the four facilities set up to handle them was likely “one designed to demonstrate confidence, and that ‘they’ve got this covered,’ a symbolic act, designed to ward off panic”. Which definitely hasn’t worked.
And about those special facilities, the Daily Beast makes a couple of good points:
Wolla Dalbo;
I think he pretty much nails it, this is all political.
http://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2014/10/do-math.html?m=1
neo…
Thinking back to the pregnant gal, Williams,…
Just how did SHE contract ebola?
&&&
It’s taboo for third trimester mothers to travel about in most Third World societies. The reasons are obvious: they are at extreme hazard. This ethos probably comes directly down from our ancient ancestors, obviously a waddling mother would be easy prey.
It’s quite likely that Williams became infected by contact with another young woman who was visiting her. (Perhaps a baby shower?)
In such a case, it’s also taboo for any SICK person to visit an expectant mother. Indeed, in most eras, an expectant mother would be entirely kept away from ill children — even if they were her own. (This is when sisters and sisters-in-law pay big dividends.)
These taboos are so strong, so universal, that one simply HAS to conclude that Williams was infected by someone who was asymptomatic.
Her (landlord) father was certainly in a position to employ go-fers the moment her pregnancy showed. And they wouldn’t have had far to go.
The weight of the evidence is that ebola candidates are spreading the disease in the days BEFORE they are feverish.
They also figure to be spreading ebola — like crazy — immediately after their fever breaks out — yet before they receive professional attention.
It’s this window that holds both high levels of ebola within the candidate AND high levels of social interaction.
&&&
Ebola is actually not an effective biowarfare agent for jihadis. For it’s inevitable that ebola will blow back and kill off jihadi ‘central’ before the boys even get to their targets. Like nuclear hand grenades — it just can’t be thrown far enough.
%%%
Should ebola crash the First World — an odds on event with Barry calling the shots — then the Third World will crater. Food and medicine will no longer flow, all air travel will cease. Demand for crude oil will collapse. Then comes starvation. Strategically, the jihadis are insane.
I think that Neo and the commenters above have said everything I might want to say regarding health care workers getting Ebola and about the government’s response. However, I find it interesting that (so far) no one who was in contract with the patient before he was admitted, including the period after he was first sent home from the hospital, has tested positive, despite the longer period since contract.
This does suggest that it is a hard disease to transmit except in the later stages.
To those who are asking why I believe Duncan didn’t know, I’ve answered that question attempts great length in other posts and comments, point by point. To go into voluminous detail again is not possible here. But I’ll take one example. Duncan’s ex-employer who voiced his opinion had neither seen nor spoken to Duncan since Septemer4, which was 11 days before the woman became ill. He had no knowledge of what Duncan knew or did not know. That’s just one example, but it’s typical of the state of knowledge of most of those opining. Some are also clearly happy to get their 15 seconds of fame.
That’s AT great length.
I’m texting from a cell phone, and I’m lousy at keyboarding this way.
Of course the current protocols are inadequate. Adequate protocols should include an absolute quarantine, strictly enforced. The quarantine should include (1) those known to be infected, and (2) separately, isolation by barrier of those known to have had contact with an infected person –including health care workers, regardless of their relative degree of protection– for the requisite period. And the outward travel or migration of any individual should be strictly precluded unless they have passed through the quarantine process for the requisite time period.
How much of that is being done? How much of it has been compromised intentionally? How much failure is on account of ineptitude? Is it too late now to contain this outbreak?
Even if we can completely eradicate this current ongoing outbreak here in the US, the one with Duncan as patient zero, a couple of things. First, isn’t it inevitable that it’s going to break out somewhere else in the developed world? If not Spain, then somewhere else in Europe? And then with air travel, it’ll spread to other developed countries? And secondly, what’s to stop another Duncan from coming here? In fact, he/they may already be here. Remember those two aid workers they brought back to Atlanta, who recovered with the help of ZMapp, the drug from tobacco plants? Was it a mistake to do that, bring them here for that treatment? Didn’t that make the US the destination of choice for Ebola sufferers? Just get here, then present at the nearest ER.
I’m thinking our real true hope when it comes to Ebola is that they can come up with an effective vaccine.
They can’t have adequate protocols because they have no idea what they are doing or what others did wrong.
If it was a group of random 100 people that witnessed the procedure, they could fix it. But a bureaucracy cannot.
WD…
You link is thinking along the exact same lines that I’ve posted, here, over the last period.
1) Ebola candidates should STOP MOVING, there is no place special to go. ER has no magic for them.
2) SPECIALISTS should come to them. Regular EMTs are out of the question.
3) ALL gear — vehicle, test apparatus, haz-mat is to be dedicated to ebola candidates. Cross contamination must be prevented — lest the entire remainder of the medical infrastructure be contaminated… ruined… overnight.
This is exactly what’s happened in west Africa.
Their shaman businesses have taken off.
Beyond that, as long as palliative care is the best we can do, specialist facilities need to be established — yesterday.
Ebola is a one-trick pony. One either survives it, or not. Ebola specialist facilities don’t need anything special — beyond isolation.
Skip the negative pressure rooms. Ebola candidates need to be flown out to the southwest desert — and isolated.
It must be obvious that ebola does not tolerate UV and desert climates.
It’s shocking that west Africa is not availing itself of the Sahara desert. It’s not necessary to go deep into the desert. The fringe will do nicely.
America doesn’t have a hope in Hell of conjuring up enough negative pressure containment rooms for this epidemic. Isolation must come to really mean isolation.
&&&
The zany reality that west African medical authorities ACTUALLY TURNED CANDIDATES AWAY is as crazy as it gets.
Every single candidate set back loose into the community MUST cause an amplification of everything the authorities are trying to bring under control.
This one decision point is the source of most of the suffering.
Yet they STILL are doing it.
The Leftist alliance is classified as an enemy of humanity under my analysis.
Wars and armies may be dangerous to people and nations, but the all powerful Death recognizes no borders and no social classes, justice or no social justice.
In previous posts I asked the same question that was raised here – how is it that highly trained health care professionals in Africa continue to contract this disease, when the drumbeat coming from the government apparatchiks is it’s not that easy to get? These are people who KNOW what they’re dealing with when it comes to transmission by bodily fluids, and yet here we are .
This is the same government that brought us the forthright and honest VA doctors and administrators. Sorry if we don’t take them at their word. What puzzles me is how many doctors continue to spout the party line about the method of transmission, without having any curiosity about the possibility it may now be uncertain. Some degree of skepticism can be healthy for public policy.
“Duncan’s ex-employer who voiced his opinion had neither seen nor spoken to Duncan since Septemer4, which was 11 days before the woman became ill. He had no knowledge of what Duncan knew or did not know”
Neo, I understand you are a lawyer, so I hope you don’t take offense if I disagree with you. How do we know that the ex-employer had no knowledge concerning what Duncan knew or didn’t know? True, the article does not provide the sources the ex-employer used to reach his opinion, but our lack of information does not warrant the conclusion that the ex-employer had no sources. Since we have not had the opportunity to question the ex-employer ourselves the best we can say based on the evidence is that he might be correct or he might be wrong. We just don’t know.
It is also strange that both the Information Minister Isaac Jackson and Assistant Health Minister Tolbert Nyenswah were both so badly misinformed or just made things up. That conclusion is even more tenuous than the position that the ex-employer was accusing Mr. Duncan without information to support the accusation. A reasonable person would normally assume that two men who live in Liberia and have personal knowledge about the general public awareness of the symptoms of Ebola would be in a good position to judge Mr. Duncan’s state of knowledge. One would also hope that the two government officials involved would not accuse one of their citizens of lying and of breaking the law until they have checked into the particulars of Mr. Duncan’s case in considerable detail. As reported, their statements do not include enough information for us to conclude that Duncan was lying but it certainly makes it a strong possibility. Of course this assumes that the reports of the testimony of the ex-employer and of the government officials is accurate. One never knows.
Incidentally, perhaps we should not be too harsh on Mr. Duncan’s ex-employer. It appears that quite a few of us who have never seen or spoken with Mr. Duncan – ever – have not let our lack of personal knowledge stop us from forming opinions about whether he lied.
This is the Obola care people wanted and voted for, enjoy it while it lasts then, people deserve what they want, after all.
Meanwhile, the Democrats and Leftists that said American military families got a justified “kick in the teeth” for supporting the Iraq war and losing a family member… I’m going to remember those flicks.
Illuminati,
Not to pick on you, but the word you are looking for is beatify. A common mistake that I used to make, too.
I reiterate my “rhetorical question” from the other day: Can someone please explain again exactly why travel is still unrestricted from the affected West African countries? If the reasons are purely political, exact what political ends are being served? Brutally honest answers are fine, indeed, welcomed!
Carl,
If the ebola outbreak were in Israel, commercial flights would have already been banned. They would have been banned if the outbreak were 1/10 as big. Political correctness requires a Democrat in the White House to continue to allow people from those African countries unchanged rights of entry.
Yancey Ward Says:
“the word you are looking for is beatify”
Thank-you.
That question was already answered. The unanswered question is why people refuse to look at the answers.
YW: I’m afraid you’re right. And it’s beyond stupid; it’s madness.
“A symbolic act”. Sounds like the CDC is not that far removed from African witch doctors.
I suppose one positive result of this fiasco is that it might cure some people of their faith in government as all-wise and all-knowing. Of course, that newfound knowledge may come with a steep price in human lives.
Illuminati:
By the way, I am not a lawyer, nor have I ever said I was. I have a law degree, however (I won’t even say how old, but believe me, it’s old). But I do remember quite a bit.
At any rate, the information coming from Duncan’s former boss is based on this article. That’s the original source. If you read it, you will see that his boss had no more notion than you, or I, or anyone else, what Duncan knew (except Duncan). The boss was basically saying the sort of thing people in comments sections of blogs are saying, which is, “Hey, he helped a pregnant women who had ebola, so of course he knew she had ebola.”
Basically, he’s speculating, and this becomes repeated and repeated in the news or in blogs, as though he actually had some reason to know something, because at one time he’d been Duncan’s boss. But the two things are completely unrelated.
Here’s the quote:
So the boss “agrees” that Duncan knew. Why? Because he helped the woman! And we now know she had ebola! That’s it; that’s his “proof.” And then it goes on to say that after Duncan quit on September 4, the boss never saw or heard from him again.
Read the whole article. It has other people who speculate idly without a shred of knowledge about what Duncan might have known. The same article, by the way, mentions the opinion of another person who’s is merely stating his opinion, based on seemingly nothing:
How do I know it’s based on nothing? Simple. Duncan quit his job on Sept 4. The Marthalene Willliams incident, in which he helped to try to take her to the hospital, occurred on the evening of Sept 15. So how could this source at FedEx know about it from Duncan prior to Sept. 4, when it hadn’t happened yet? Duncan left Monrovia a little over three days after Sept 15, on the morning of Sept 19. It takes months to get a visa for the US; he had a visa and a plane ticket to the US before the incident ever happened. So his trip to the US could not have been any sort of reaction to thinking he might have caught ebola from Williams.
Plus, of course, he had no symptoms in Liberia. So he couldn’t have “known” he had ebola by September 19, much less way back when he got his visa (months earlier) or his ticket (weeks earlier).
Everyone who actually knew Duncan and knew about the Willliams incident, the Williams family, and the neighborhood is adamant that neither Duncan, nor the neighborhood (nor probably the family) knew that Williams had ebola until much later, when others (including Duncan) became ill with it.
All of the Liberian officials are motivated to blame Duncan because they have egg on their faces and want to both distance themselves from any responsibility or role in transporting ebola to the US, and set a precedent that will frighten other Liberians into being truthful on their airport questionnaires. They have no knowledge that Duncan lied, nor have they offered any evidence of it except the fact that he helped a pregnant woman who later was found to have had ebola. Backwards reasoning.
Meanwhile, we have the cab driver:
Cab drivers in Liberia are used all the time for transporting sick people, including ebola patients, to hospitals, because ambulances are few and far between. My guess is that they’re are pretty spooked about ebola (and rightly so), and probably get scared about most of their very ill passengers. Note that he just says he had a general sense that “something wasn’t right” after she wasn’t accepted at several hospitals (which, by the way, was not because she had ebola or because anyone thought she did, but because the hospitals were all full). He then disinfected his vehicle, a wise move in general if you’re a cab driver in Liberia. He offers no evidence that any of the people with Williams thought she had ebola, however.
This is the sum total of their “proof.” It’s basically meaningless, or worse. Against that, I have analyzed Duncan’s behavior, and find it completely consistent with his not knowing, coupled with the “not-knowing” behavior of Williams’ family, neighbors, and the medical people who saw Marthalene that night (the only “diagnosis” medical staff ever gave was malaria).
Of course we can’t “know” what we don’t know; we don’t read these people’s minds. We have to work with what we have, and what they’ve said. But from what I’ve seen so far of it, and all the other evidence, I’m quite confident that Duncan did not know. Am I certain? Of course not. But I’d put my confidence level at above 90%.
Is that what Dr. Tom Frieden truly thinks? One of the sad consequences of people like Goolsbee and Gruber telling lies is that I no longer trust the people up top. In Frieden’s case it is likely that he considers the possibility of fomenting panic among the great unwashed and tempers his pronouncements with that in mind. Is he lying? Who knows? And that is the problem.
I think this is worth posting again: this links to Frontline’s “Hunting the Nightmare Bacteria,” about the difficulties of battling gram-negative, multi-drug resistant bacteria, and how tough it is to maintain a sealed “hot zone” in a hospital:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/mdxr6go
Here’s a bit about the breakout when some G-Neg. patients were transferred to the National Institutes of Health and put under maximum precautions, but the infection STILL got out:
Dr. TARA PALMORE: –KPC bacteria turned up in a respiratory culture.
NARRATOR: And with it a mystery.
Dr. TARA PALMORE: How this could have spread from the first patient to the second patient.
Dr. DAVID HENDERSON: They were not in ICU at the same time. They didn’t have the same caregivers. They didn’t have the same equipment. So initially, we thought that it might be possible that this was a second introduction of yet another KPC organism.
Dr. TARA PALMORE: I was extremely concerned because the infections with this bacteria had a high mortality rate.
NARRATOR: As they began to investigate, searching for KPC on equipment and testing the patients yet again, they realized the problem was much bigger.
Dr. TARA PALMORE: We started finding other patients in the intensive care unit to whom the bacteria had spread.
NARRATOR: They had an outbreak. The KPC was spreading. The patients were getting sicker. And antibiotics weren’t working.
Dr. TARA PALMORE: And we tried combinations of five, six antibiotics. We tried making oral antibiotics into intravenous antibiotics. We even got an investigational antibiotic from a pharmaceutical company.
DAVID E. HOFFMAN: An experimental one, a test one.
Dr. TARA PALMORE: An experimental antibiotic. And that also did not work.
NARRATOR: Desperate to contain the outbreak, the hospital took unprecedented steps. They created a separate ICU for KPC patients, brought in robots to disinfect empty rooms.
NANCY AMES, R.N., ICU Nurse, NIH: Had monitors here reminding us to wash our hands, built a whole wall up in the other side. We moved every patient in the ICU, completely cleaned it, moved patients back in. And no matter what we did, the bacteria was still– it was still spreading.
Dr. DAVID HENDERSON: We didn’t know what was going on.
NARRATOR: With the hospital in crisis, genetic researchers in building 49 next door were scrambling to figure out how the KPC was spreading.
JULIE SEGRE, Ph.D., Geneticist, NIH: We had now gotten to the point where they were identifying a patient a week, and it was not clear how these patients might be related to each other.
NARRATOR: Julie Segre and her colleague, Evan Snitkin, started to compare the DNA samples of the KPC taken from the patients.
JULIE SEGRE: Are these all the DNAs then?
EVAN SNITKIN, Ph.D., Post-Doctoral Fellow, NIH: Yeah, these are all the DNAs for–
NARRATOR: Each patient had a number.
EVAN SNITKIN: So this shows you, based on the DNA sequences, how we think the bacteria spread throughout the hospital.
NARRATOR: By matching the DNA, they discovered something none of them knew.
EVAN SNITKIN: Three, four and eight were all silent carriers. And what’s scary about that is they can be transmitting to other patients without anyone knowing that they even have the bacteria themselves. So this– this bacteria seemed to have been all over the hospital before they had come up positive.
DAVID E. HOFFMAN: And the hospital didn’t know that?
EVAN SNITKIN: They didn’t know because this bacteria has the capacity to live in the stomach of patients without causing infection.
Dr. DAVID HENDERSON: For me, the data were stunning.
DAVID E. HOFFMAN: Why was it stunning?
Dr. DAVID HENDERSON: Because it became very clear that we had missed the transmission sequence.
(Read the rest at the link: it’s riveting reading.)
Note that the preceding outbreak was occurring even With all the protocals and precautions at DefCon One.
Another similarity is that gram-neg bacteria are rampant in the Third World’s poorest sectors. Also that there’s nothing we have in our medical arsenal to fight them, so there’s that.
I picked up some Purell, which I never bother with as a rule (New York City is better than a topflight gym for giving your immune system a workout!). But I soon became aware that there are many small actions I take that would contaminate me, Purell notwithstanding: coming in, I touch the doorknob before the Purell. Handling grocery bags, I’d already be done for. I think I’ll dispense with it.
blert:
You are exactly correct about the theory of how Marthalene Williams caught ebola. No one knows, but something of the sort is theorized.
People were VERY puzzled after they discovered she’d died of ebola, because they could not figure out how she, of all people, had caught it, and been first in the neighborhood to do so. She had (as you suggest) hardly been out of the house recently. But they finally decided it was from a friend who might have visited her:
I agree that as reported Mr. Brunson’s statement as reported is quite weak as reported especially since it is possible that he was upset at Mr. Duncan for quitting.
If Neo is correct that the Liberian government officials made those statements without a proper investigation, that is quite troubling. Unfortunately, considering the track record for the American and European officials up to now, that assumption is all too possible.
I am with GB, this is purposeful as is the southern border crash bringing EV68 and drug resistant TB into all of bho’s 57 states. This may well become a crisis that makes the mannish boy our version of Fidel. I believe that is his goal.
PC does not explain the refusal to ban flights from west Africa, and does not explain the negation of southern border security. It is well known that when an epidemic occurs quarantine is the first layer of defense. This is purposeful and premeditated. Ashes, ashes all except the protected class all fall down.
On a personal level, my 6th grandchild was still born early this morning. We are all in mourning. If one of my children or grandchildren dies from the diseases DC is purposefully allowing to enter our borders I swear by my 5 grandchildren I will go berserker on all federal officials I can reach. I will do so by the strategies taught in John Ross’ Unintended Consequences. So say we all.
EVAN SNITKIN: They didn’t know because this bacteria has the capacity to live in the stomach of patients without causing infection.
All the anti bacteria they used killed all the other bacterial in the gut competing with said super bacteria, leaving that bacteria alone to spread and infect.
So long as someone doesn’t get sick, the doctors don’t actually know what’s going on. They can’t and don’t go on feelings. If a patient says she swallowed a pen and it hurts, and the doctor takes an x ray and various other scans and nothing shows up, who does the doctor believe? He believes his scans. Up until some months later a different and better doctor with his scanner actually finds the pen….
parker:
Please accept my condolences.
I considered the Left and their alliance members to be evil in 2007, mostly for what they have done in the last 6 years at the time.
That didn’t make a lot of sense to people. They considered Iraq to be either a political issue or an external war war thingie that didn’t impact their American shopping experience. They continued to think of Democrats as either their priests, their protectors, their sugar daddies, or their politicians.
Evil was not something they had to deal with in the US, except for some poor slave in Chicago being exploited by the unions.
People like Nixon and McCarthy suspected there were agents running around that were seeking to destroy things. Nixon considered them his personal enemies. Look what happened to him. In pursuit of evidence, his FBI (generally controlled by hacks loyal to the Leftist bureaucracy) conveniently started ransacking and searching buildings. And then the vice FBI director just conveniently informed the media about it. Conveniently.
That was the day and age when the alliance was working underground and in the shadows mostly, while people who saw the consequences got real suspicious, but there weren’t much evidence to back it. And what evidence there was, quickly got disappeared.
Now a days the Left has given commands to their terrorist cells to activate. Imagine the consequences.
Parker, my deepest condolences. What a tragedy, and especially for the would-be parents without a new “bundle of joy” to bring home. I am so sorry. (Sending prayers your way).
Illuminati:
The CDC first announced a US ebola patient on Sept. 30, but not his name. That was the day Duncan was definitively diagnosed. They announced his identity on Oct. 1. The Liberian president denounced him on Oct 2.
No doubt the Liberian government conducted a full review of the facts between Sept. 30 or Oct. 1, when they first learned of it, and Oct. 2 (and yes, that’s sarcasm):
See what I’m talking about? A rush to judgment on the part of Sirleaf, and an effort to get in the good graces of the US—and more than willing to rush to judgment on Duncan in order to effect those ends.
Thank you neo. It is many days of sorrow for me and mine. I can not think of sleep right now, so I distract my thoughts and feelings by surfing the www. A precious life was ended. It is difficult to accept, but accept it I must. My/our sorrow right now is but a tiny drop in the pool of sorrow that circles the globe. This is when I grudgingly accept that this personal tragedy is what was meant to be.
We are fragile beings, we face many difficult circumstances on this journey from the cradle to the grave. Yet, soon I hope, we will come to appreciate the little things such as the turning leaves, the rising of the moon, soup made of the fruits of our gardens, and snuggling up with the ones we love on a cold winters night.
I wish harm to no one, but remain vigilant to those who wish harm to me and mine. Most of all I wish peace to all who seek peace and death to those who do not. Its a strange and sad day for me and my precious daughter in law. Her sorrow burns a hole in my heart beyond the loss my son feels. I bless them all with my tears.
parker:
It’s hard to bear the grief of a child; it makes our own griefs even sharper.
Thank you neo and others, tears flow and there is no cure but time. My son and daughter in law have the strength to weather this loss, and 2 other children to nurture. I have no doubts that they will hold fast. Youngest son and lovely daughter in law are on track to be 6th grandchild in April. It will be their first. Amidst sorrow and lost there is light. My goal is to live long enough to see my grandchildren grow and prosper. I may not live to see that come true, but if not I know that we have bequeathed them the knowledge and tools to do so. Family is everything we fleeingly possess
I’m sorry to hear that, parker.
No stillbirths, but my parents had a couple of miscarriages before they decided to adopt me.
I just witnessed (on Fox) Judge Janine Pirro’s broadcast.
The talking heads made me VERY afraid.
ALL of them were MILES behind the comprehension of this blog.
&&&
1) No-one in authority has tumbled to the reality that you CAN’T be introducing ebola candidates to regular medical facilities.
Every clown was entirely fine with that notion.
2) Most of the doctors actually believed that we — the West — America — the CDC — can just wade into the problem and solve it.
No-one was willing to address the fact that we’re actually helpless in the face of ebola. Plainly, they’re STILL stuck on happy talk.
This was the exact same faith/ nostrum that kept the passengers out of their life boats as the Titanic went down.
It is STILL maintained that ebola is not transmitted until the victim is pulling a fever. As the case histories must evidence: this notion is NUTS.
Obviously, candidates are spewing ebola all over the place in the hours immediately before it’s plain they’ve got a fever — and in those hours it takes for their fever to be addressed. Consequently their vehicles and residences are contaminated.
I’ve yet to see ANY evidence that black light/ UV radiation is used during ebola detoxification. It must be obvious that ebola can’t tolerate UV.
So the VERY first step during detoxification of any haz-mat suit is to take a nice sweet dose of UV light.
UV can knock down many of the virus elements without any air turbulence.
THEN it’s time to gently wash down the haz-mat suit. I would go with a MISTING SPRAY.
The usage of a directed spray is, for ebola, quite insane. All viruses are fantastically tiny. The LAST thing you want to do is blast them into the free air.
&&&
The entire idea of using negative pressure rooms has to be abandoned AT ONCE.
Candidates need DRY habitation in the American southwest or in the southern Sahara desert. Ebola figures to die in desert conditions.
I would think that a resort facility or two — say a fat-farm — should be condemned by eminent domain — on the hurry up — and dedicated to candidates — all expenses paid.
Those at various risk profiles should be kept largely separate, clustered.
A specialist lab needs to be mobilized for such a site so that ebola can be detected as early as possible in any candidate.
The exponential rise in ebola concentrations should evidence themselves in far less time than three weeks.
In the meantime, the candidates should be given extremely low lipid diets.
It’s an obvious fact that ebola is tolerated by mammals that have intrinsically low lipid diets: fruit bats.
One must assume that ebola is RATE LIMITED in its reproduction by such lipids that can’t be synthesized inside the body. These are the lipids we get in our diet. No primate has a diet remotely close to the lipid intake of humanity.
Dairy
Meats
Fats
This list is EXACTLY why a fat farm is an ideal stop-over for ebola candidates. A hyper-healthy diet figures to have double meaning for ebola candidates.
The flip side:
Wine and booze have rock bottom lipid concentrations. They are also missing from west African diets!
We may find that ebola can’t handle a good Scotch!
You can just about bet your last dollar that the CDC never tests viruses against grain alcohol or wine.
Red wine, in particular, may have active complexes that totally screw up ebola’s lipid sheath.
This can be tested with extreme rapidity in vitro.
BTW, it’s not for nothing that the ancients reached for either olive oil or red wine as cures for what ails us. Ethyl alcohol is toxic to no end of the biota.
We’d rather drink it than use it to wash dishes… but strong alcohols make all bacterial wither and die.
One is almost reminded of “The Andromeda Strain.”
Michael Crichton was tapping our Jungian unconscious when he had a drunkard surviving his interstellar virus.
We might find that even spraying down patients with booze suppresses ebola transfer.
While we have many surfactants that kill (exposed) ebola — most are insufferable as a mist around us.
Strong ethyl alcohol kills germs the same exact way that isopropyl alcohol does… but with less toxicity. The only reason it’s not universally used (it used to be) is because of the taxes laid on grain alcohol.
(In centuries past, no-one could lay their hands on isopropyl alcohol — it was booze or nothing. Famously, strong brandy/ rum was universally used upon those whipped. A ship’s surgeon would NEVER run out of rum because of its dual properties — inside and outside.)
We immediately need anti-ebola cleansers that can be misted onto surfaces. Ethyl alcohol can be misted out as a blended steam, as every moonshiner knows.
I toss these notions out not knowing what might click. I can certainly see that the experts are totally lost… clueless.
Most are still stuck in the blame game.
It is sensible to restrict a population with a deadly epidemic from entering a noninfected area. Unfortunately, sensibility is not the strong suit of the Obamite elite.
“See what I’m talking about? A rush to judgment on the part of Sirleaf, and an effort to get in the good graces of the US–and more than willing to rush to judgment on Duncan in order to effect those ends.”
If their goal is to get into the good graces of the US they failed. In America officials who lie are usually more intelligent about it, but unfortunately, in Africa anything is possible.
I am skeptical of the claims by the girl friend and Duncan’s friends since they have obvious reason to obfuscate to shift blame away from themselves. This is especially true of his immediate family since there is the possibility of a monetary settlement.
When the patient first becomes ill Ebola is less infectious because the viremia is lighter and the patients are shedding less virions that they will later in the illness. However, it just takes a few virions to infect someone especially if the are transferred through intimate contact where the virions are transferred directly from body to body. According to announcements by the CDC, Duncan’s test was more positive than the nurse’s test which they interpreted to mean that his viremia was more severe than hers. He was definitely infectious. So we have an apparent miracle, a lusty African man who is shedding virions in all his bodily fluids who is reunited with his girl friend but who does not infect her.
If Duncan was certain he was going to become ill he undoubtedly would have told his girl friend/fiancé and son immediately. If he had doubts but was not certain he still would probably have told her as soon as he became slightly ill. The fact that none of his family has become ill, not even the girl friend, raises the strong possibility that they were suspicious that he had Ebola and took precautions from the beginning.
This quote from Duncan’s nephew proves that the family knew a lot more than they are letting on:
“That was the day “I called CDC to get some actions taken, because I was concerned for his life and he wasn’t getting the appropriate care,” Duncan’s nephew, Josephus Weeks, told NBC News on Wednesday night. “I feared other people might also get infected if he wasn’t taken care of, and so I called them to ask them why is it a patient that might be suspected of this disease was not getting appropriate care?”
It appears that Mr. Weeks, not a physician, knew the diagnosis before any of the physicians, early in the illness, while the symptoms were nonspecific. The fact that his nephew diagnosed the disease and was confident enough of the diagnosis to call the CDC before the medical symptoms were diagnostic proves that he knew that there was a strong probability that Mr. Duncan had been exposed to Ebola in Liberia.
Sorry, I forgot to put the link for the nephew’s statement in the previous post.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/ebola-patient-thomas-eric-duncans-nephew-i-had-call-cdc-n216326
Illuminati,
Your skepticism doesn’t matter as it is just idiocy. Miss Neoneocon has pointed out the facts in the matter. It is not nice to speak bad of the dead. No less an innocent who befell a disease of unspekable horror due to his trying to help a fellow human who was near death. It is obvious the reason you keep carping on it. I suppose you consider yourself an intelligent liar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOkDsGPhn48
^^^
VICE — the Canadian Web Narrowcaster — has a three-parter on ebola in Monrovia.
This particular clip illustrates the critical authorities never ever shifted gears to deal with a pandemic scale disease.
They went down the EXACT same corridor of error that the CDC and Dallas have selected.
So, this video is a snap shot of America in the months to come.
1) The Liberian authorities NEVER acted on the obvious reality that ebola patients need a separate track from all other patients.
2) They also engaged in the folly of turning ebola candidates back out into the community — because the prospective patients were beyond their design scheme.
3) Even in the face of the consequent disaster, this policy has not changed at all. The Liberian authorities STILL have the nerve to turn patients away, to queue them up.
4) It must be obvious that since the only care available is palliative care, there is no particular need for a conventionally structured hospital.
5) Further, it must have been obvious from the first that public policy can not permit ebola candidates to return out into the community.
6) Further, it must now be obvious that any ebola survivors must be hired on IMMEDIATELY as transport drivers. Yet, this is not being done. Liberia permits hale and hearty ebola survivors to just wander off into the community.
7) The source of the contagion is simply not being removed from the community. It’s being allowed to fester. Under age children are being tasked with attending to ebola stricken mothers. Just how stupid can you get?
&&&
I should expect ALL of these follies to visit America — and the larger world.
Our authorities have not learned a single thing from the social breakdown in Liberia.
Even the Liberians think that Americans can escape ebola.
The planet needs to wake up! No-one, nowhere, has a cure. The best that is available is sweeter palliative care. That’s IT.
Further ebola immediately ruins the existing medical care system. It both overloads it and CONTAMINATES it.
No sane patient dares visit a hospital.
As for the bulk of the health practitioners… they’re still operating under their old, failed, protocols for ERs.
There is absolutely no sign that anyone has woken up to the reality that ebola epidemics REQUIRE a dual track triage — from the outset.
Ebola candidates shouldn’t even be allowed inside. Nothing special is inside to help them.
Everything should be brought to them. And, more generally, ebola bodies should be cremated on the spot. Mobile cremation ovens should be manufactured as soon as possible. Every single step you take with a ebola victim — after death — you’re spewing ebola simply everywhere.
I also note that UV lighting seems to have never occurred to anybody. As a rule, viruses can’t repair themselves. (They depend on fecundity.) This means that UV radiation destroys them.
[It’s shades of Star Trek’s “Operation Annihilate.”]
Blert, et al, what do you think of colloidal silver?
Court Fool Says:
“It is not nice to speak bad of the dead. No less an innocent who befell a disease of unspekable horror due to his trying to help a fellow human who was near death.”
We obviously don’t agree about very much, but there is one thing we can agree on. We must not forget the ongoing human tragedy when we are sorting through the conflicting information about this terrible disease.
I don’t think we will ever know for certain if Duncan knew he likely had Ebola when coming to the U.S., but the details of the history & physical that he gave upon admission to Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas are illuminating:
“Pt states he has not been to any rural areas or funerals recently,” he noted. “Pt denies any sick contacts. Pt denies chills. The pt does not do (sic) any other associated signs of sx (symptoms) at this time.”
http://www.chron.com/news/texas/article/AP-Enterprise-Records-chronicle-Duncan-s-decline-5816549.php
Granted, he could have thought that his sick neighbor didn’t have Ebola, but rather some other sickness, but the record above references denial of ‘any sick contacts”, which is simply untrue.
Technically, the nephew isn’t dead, so it’s not speaking ill of the dead to question the Authorities there.
When did obama know Benghazi was a terrorist attack?
I understand why that matters.
When did Duncan know or reasonably suspect that he had ebola?
Why does that matter?
“When did Duncan know or reasonably suspect that he had ebola?
Why does that matter?”
For the same reason it matters if someone knows they are infected with HIV and chooses to become or remain sexually active without telling their partners. The same reason we ask blood donors if they have engaged in certain risky activities. We as a society have determined that such behavior is not just ‘wrong’, it should be criminal, so as to dissuade future similar actions.
I don’t know for sure if Duncan knew (or should have known), but there is a reason people ask and hope for honest answers–to prevent a widespread outbreak. If Duncan knew and intentionally withheld this, it could result in the infection and death of many people (the former has occurred). Sure, you can’t prosecute a dead person (and here there may not have been enough evidence to do so in any event), but if you make people think twice about lying given that they may face prosecution, it might help prevent future infection. How much is open to debate as someone infected can rationalize the risk of telling and not getting treatment vs. keeping quiet and getting medical treatment.
>blockquote>”When did Duncan know or reasonably suspect that he had ebola?
Why does that matter?”
You have to be effen kidding.
Presumably you only mean now, and “practically speaking” after he’s dead?
Why does it matter then if he is “vilified”?
DNW, I’m not kidding at all.
There’s been some protracted exchanges between NeoneoCon and others about when Duncan knew or suspected that he had Ebola and I want to know explicitly what the specific import of that answer would be.
If this, then “that.”
What is the “that”?
If Duncan didn’t know he had ebola when he…, then this shows “what”?
If Duncan did know he had ebola when he…, then this show “what”?
I’d like to know the import of these speculations regardless whether he was dead or alive.
Skip this “If Duncan didn’t know he had ebola when he…, then this shows “what”?”
That would just show that he was innocent of the charges of something like “reckless negligence” or worse.
Let’s say that Duncan knew he had ebola before he left Liberia. Or he suspected that there’s a good chance that he was infected before he left Liberia.
And he thought that the best chance of making a successful recovery would be to get medical treatment in America even if by doing so he risked the lives of others by spreading it to them. And he made the decision based on self-interest. Sacrifice the potential many to save himself.
Why is this speculation worth more than paying attention to blert’s comments?
I don’t get it.
“Truth Unites”, now says:
and earlier, states his general question:
Me, earlier:
“Why is this speculation worth more than paying attention to blert’s comments?”
I actually enjoy blert’s comments.
Duncan is not really the issue at this point. Telling the truth about what happened is important since something went badly wrong with the system. Also, we need to find out why we are receiving so much conflicting information about what happened.
My take is that the system is set up to encourage travelers to lie about their exposures since the penalty for telling the truth is rather harsh for the traveler – they are blocked from their travel plans which might have been in the making for months or years and then they are consigned to a third World health care system. Under the circumstances travelers have strong incentive to either lie or to go into denial themselves that they have been exposed. Relying on questioners is obviously not very effective. Blocking flights from West Africa or imposing a quarantine on travelers is probably the only was to prevent future Ebola travelers.
I’m not convinced that we have enough information to know that the African officials made things up to placate American officials. After the young pregnant woman died and then when her relatives began to die any responsible public health official would begin at that time to trace the contacts. I don’t know if the Liberians are able to do that anymore, but the probability is that they try to trace contacts as much as possible. If they did contact tracing they may have flagged Duncan before they found out that he was ill in the USA.
Dnw, if I was juror I’d vote to convict Duncan, but it doesn’t bother me if other jurors believe that neo built a case for reasonable doubt and voted to acquit.
truth unites:
It matters on a policy level, a moral level, and a human level.
Wes Dorman:
Patient denies chills? He had a fever of 103. That’s a very bizarre report, to say the least. (Just as an aside, every time I’ve ever read my own charts of doctor visits, they are chock-full of inaccuracies about what I said during the visit.)
And remember that Duncan almost undoubtedly had not been to Marthalene Williams’ funeral (no reports that he had been there), and he almost certainly thought she had died of either malaria (not contagious from person to person contact), or a pregnancy complication. Not contagious, not a “sick contact.”
People keep imagining what they think Duncan should have known based on what they NOW know.
Oh, and don’t forget that if a person has a fever of 103, he/she might also have trouble being coherent in terms of a questionnaire (although I don’t think that’s why Duncan didn’t answer “yes.” I think the evidence is very strong that he just didn’t think the correct answer was “yes.”) At the point when he entered the Dallas hospital for the first time, he was not connecting Marthalene’s death in late pregnancy (and by the way, pregnancy-related mortality and childbirth deaths are very high in Liberia) with being around someone “sick.”
Doesn’t bother me either what juror Neo thinks. But you were – at least on the face of it – asking about why Duncan’s intentions mattered per se; and not why it presumably mattered to me and others what Neo herself thought of his moral character.
I quoted her term “vilification”, because you seemed puzzled as to what the disputed issue actually was about: Duncan’s moral condemnation.
Now, Neo thinks that matters since she obviously and quite strenuously objects to his “vilification”.
I believe on the other hand that he was, on the basis of what he had to have known and is known to have known – unless he was a virtual moron – morally culpable. [And I am not including in this unverified remarks that he had carted a sick relative around in a wheelbarrow, or repeating what his boss thought Duncan knew]
If, however, you’re asking what difference his culpability makes in the disposal of his corpse – or a like question – then I suppose your question has been misinterpreted.
DNW:
By the way, re your “moron” remark–
It’s nice to know you would have known better, and that you think it completely obvious Marthalene Williams had ebola.
See my remark in the comment above about malaria and pregnancy.
More importantly, it’s nice to know you think Duncan should have been a better ebola diagnostician than:
(a) every doctor and nurse that Williams may have seen the night she died, none of whom said she had ebola, and one of whom said she had malaria
(b) the ER doctors who saw Duncan that first time, when he had strong symptoms of ebola. His symptoms actually were stronger and more specific to ebola than Williams’ had been, because she only had two ebola symptoms, fever and stomach pain (and convulsions, which are not an ebola symptoms), whereas he had fever, stomach pain, and a bad headache, all of which are symptoms of ebola. On a scale of 1 to 10, he rated his pain as 8 on that first visit.
The doctors in Liberia didn’t know she had ebola. Her parents didn’t know she had ebola. The doctors in Dallas didn’t know Duncan had ebola, with clearer symptoms than she had. But Duncan should have known she had ebola, or he’s a moron?
DNW,
It’s just that I’ve seen this conversation between Neo and others carry over several posts and threads, and thought that it was a distraction from the excellent comments that Blert and others were making.
FWIW, I think it’s far more worthwhile to make the case that it’s both correct and good to vilify Obama and his administration on a number of important issues, including ebola.
Illuminati: “The fact that none of his family has become ill, not even the girl friend, raises the strong possibility that they were suspicious that he had Ebola and took precautions from the beginning.”
I was strongly wondering the same thing when Sheriff Deputy Monning was being tested for ebola.
They still might get ebola since I think they’re still within the 21-day window, but it does seem rather unusual.
Illuminati:
You are spinning a scenario out of your imagination. Of course you can tie together some facts and cook up a plausible story. But that doesn’t mean that story has any connection whatsoever with reality.
First of all, you don’t yet know that no one in Duncan’s family will get the disease; the incubation period is not over. But even if none of them contracts the disease (and I sincerely hope that’s the case), that does not mean they knew and took some extra precautions. Ebola does not have some sort of one-to-one inevitable transmission with the sort of contact they all had with him (including intercourse with his girlfriend in the early stages, and by the later stages the person is too sick for it). If they had known he’d had some sort of serious exposure to ebola, do you really think they’d be hanging out with him at all, even with “precautions”? Unless they were continually wearing hazmet suits every time they came near him, your theory is extremely unlikely. These people are not suicidal
As for his nephew Mr. Weeks, I have no idea whether he’s grandstanding or not (the CDC has neither denied nor confirmed his story). What’s more important, you are incorrect that “It appears that Mr. Weeks, not a physician, knew the diagnosis before any of the physicians, early in the illness, while the symptoms were nonspecific.”
Weeks says he suspected the possibility of ebola on Sept. 28, if you read the article carefully (two days after the 26th). Not only were Duncan’s symptoms extremely specific by that time (projectile vomiting, extremely high fever, diarrhea), but they had pointed to ebola even on his initial visit (extremely high fever of 103, bad abdominal pain, bad headache—and of course very suspicious combined with his recent arrival from Liberia).
It was on the 28th that Duncan’s girlfriend’s daughter Youngor Jallah, who is a nurse’s assistant and had been caring for him, also suspected ebola and called 911 (that’s how he ended up at the hospital the second time). Perhaps Weeks was in communication with her, and got the benefit of her medical knowledge.
But more importantly, Dincan’s symptoms by the 28th (about the same time Weeks suspected ebola) were so extremely serious and so extreme, so clearly indicative of ebola, that anyone with even a glancing familiarity with the disease could not have missed it. Read the article.
Occam’s Razor says he knew or suspected it, as any reasonably alert and sentient person under those circumstances would.
It’s possible he was slack-jawed with dumb-founded amazement when the diagnosis was rendered, but I’m thinking not. But it’s possible.
It matters little now inasmuch as he’s dead. But others infected will surely want to jump on a jet plane and present at a US emergency room, so they can get the supposed state-of-the-art treatment.
Neo,
I don’t think it is surprising that Duncan denied chills–sometimes a patient will have them with a high temperature, sometimes not. In law school back in 1994 (I’m dating myself) I had a temperature of over 104 but had no chills, just a terrible headache.
Agree that those charts are sometimes error-filled, but it struck me that the “sick contact” was a pretty broad inquiry. On the one hand we’re not requiring Duncan to have vast medical or informational knowledge regarding Ebola or his passenger, but we simultaneously believe Duncan was knowledgeable enough to answer in a Clintonian way that he had not had “sick contact” because (a) he knew, somehow, that Marthalene Williams had malaria or some pregnancy complication and (b) if malaria knew that it wasn’t something transmissible to him? I haven’t read enough to know if Duncan was aware that Williams had died, but if you took someone around to multiple clinics/hospitals and they were that sick and then died, I strongly suspect a reasonable person would have to honestly answer that they had had “sick contact”. Even if Duncan honestly believed it was 100% a pregnancy complication, I would think he would tell the nurse that he had been around someone sick who died, but he believed it to be something unrelated. He may have, but the notes are too sparse to know.
The history and physical seems very short/incomplete so it is hard to know exactly what was asked or whether Duncan fully comprehended what was being asked. At that stage you would have thought that even if Duncan had mislead Liberian, customs and other officials as to his illness, it would make little sense to continue misleading, since you would want to get the proper treatment. This would support the view that he didn’t know he was suffering from Ebola.
For any healthcare experts out there–would the release of this patient information be a HIPAA violation? One more claim for Duncan’s family members to add to their lawsuit.
G Jourbet:
See my comments above to Illuminati and Truth Divides.
I guess the doctors and nurses in Liberia, etc. (as I wrote above) are not reasonably alert and sentient).
It’s interesting to me how we see keep seeing this phenomenon of “WE know it now, therefore of course we all would have seen it then, and anyone with half a brain should have seen it then.” Hubris plus 20/20 hindsight.
The Dallas nurse caught Ebola from Duncan because of the hue and cry raised against the hospital and its ER staff by Neo and many others. The hospital then shifted to a stance of “do everything.” When Duncan was admitted 9/28 the hospital emptied a 24-bed ICU for him (and the other patients? what happened to them? Oh, never mind, some died, as ICU patients are wont to do). He went into multi-organ failure, should have been pronounced dead a few hours later, but he was placed on a ventilator and dialysed, all while in isolation….so the hospital could not be blamed for cutting even the tinyest corner in the care of this Liberian.
The logistical complexity of his last days’ care is beyond the practical understanding of most. But it is an invitation for a tiny cog in the complex machine of Duncan’s care to slip somewhere and release the virus. As happened, and will happen again.
The blame game continues with Hussein’s order to investigate how this could have happened.
Yes, well, I have been letting it drop, insofar as engaging or hectoring Neo on it is concerned.
I’d spent enough time making what I thought was my case on her blog and bandwidth. My subsequent reading of Liberian papers and commentary, as well as studying maps of the areas in which he worked and lived, and scaling out the truly smallish and relatively direct distances (for example from “Paynesville” to KFK Hospital), has reinforced my opinion of the actual train of events, his actions, and his probable state of mind.
As for your puzzlement over why no one in the household he was living in – the apartment of the mother of his son, a women he intended to marry – was showing symptoms if no one imagined contact with him might be inadvisable, is something I had not considered.
Must be a very spacious apartment. There are of course 3 bedroom and even two storey apartments in Texas. I once lived in a spanking new Houston complex of the sort, with artful brick facades and palladian windows, myself. So maybe he was just off alone in some area the several others didn’t happen to venture into.
Don Carlos:
The Dallas hospital failed to keep its staff safe because I criticized their incompetent handling of Duncan’s first ER visit, and their incompetent handling of the reporting afterwards?
You have jumped the shark.
Neo said:
“If they had known he’d had some sort of serious exposure to ebola, do you really think they’d be hanging out with him at all, even with “precautions”?”
Good question. I was going to back out of the conversation since there is considerable hostility, but your interesting questions draw me back in.
Given our present state of knowledge obviously my scenario is speculative.
1. Your first point is obvious. Of course, it is still possible that his family will still become ill although by now that is becoming increasingly unlikely.
2. Your second point that they might not have taken precautions and still remain healthy is also possible. It is possible that Ebola in the early stages really is that hard to catch although I wouldn’t bet my life on it. Another possibility why they remain well is that some people have a degree of natural immunity to Ebola. I don’t know that that is the case but a degree of natural immunity is present some diseases like West Nile Virus.
3. If Weeks’ statement is accurate it appears that at some point the family suspected that Duncan had Ebola and undoubtedly took precautions to protect themselves. The question is when did they begin to suspect the truth.
4. Your suggestion that Youngor Jallah, a nurse’s assistant provided the needed medical knowledge is an excellent point. The link is fascinating and provides much helpful information. It is amazing how the hospital and the CDC failed the family. Let’s hope that this brave woman remains well.
Neo, I believe you have successfully made the case that Duncan might not have known he had been exposed to Ebola. In other words you have made a strong case for reasonable doubt. Unless we get more information regarding Duncan’s state of mind, that is probably the best we can do.
No. My argument is that he should have suspected that he might have been, and quite probably was, physically exposed to the living body of someone desperately ill, who subsequently died “in a area with ebola”.
Could he have been ignorant of what everyone else in Monrovia seems to have known? He certainly was employed just a few hundred yards from a slum where there was ebola, and where internationally reported civil disturbances were occurring in the preceding months. So, no, he could not reasonably have been unaware that ebola had been in the area, in Monrovia, for 90 days prior.
And, I don’t accept the mental confusion argument which I take it you put forth as extenuating circumstances.
You have read that she was “diagnosed” with malaria, by someone or another, and that malaria is endemic in the area. Q.E.D.
I have read that Duncan and the Williamses were directed to ebola units, one of which was named as being at the JFK Hospital, but were turned away for lack of space.
Why would the Williamses take a daughter, as per reported instructions, to an ebola treatment unit if they were unequivocally convinced that she had malaria?
You say they were told she had malaria. Reports also say she was sent to an embola treatment center after the failure of transfusing treatments, and that the Williamses subsequently tried to gain admittance to more than one ebola unit.
They may have started off on their drive believing, or hoping that she had malaria. And, some nurse at, say, the Blessing Clinic or some other such may have even stated she had it.
But somewhere, in some clinic, she was transfused, deteriorated, and the clinicians seeing her worsening condition, directed her transporters to an ebola unit.
Furthermore any notion of them tearing around a bewildering urban maze in search of medical treatment, a quest which left them incapable of coherent thought or surmises, doesn’t make sense if you look at the streets and locations: SKD to JFK Hospital/Tubman.
Again, I am not including what the neighbors say Duncan knew, nor unverified reports that there were some 6 or more ebola cases in the Payenesville-SKD neighborhood, nor that he was said by a supposed witness to have been seen transporting an unidentified “relative” with ebola in a wheelbarrow. All those are, admittedly, unverified.
But it is my considered opinion that (a, given the situation in Monrovia generally, and (b, given the fact that the family were directed to an ebola unit after a clinic had unsuccessfully attempted to treat the daughter, Duncan had good reason to suspect that he had just been in bodily contact with someone who had almost immediately thereafter died in a area where there was ebola. Again: someone who had been sent to an ebola treatment unit while he was assisting in her transport.
And, I infer form this, that Duncan was ignoring it all, and answering official questions with the equivalent of parsing or “mental reservations”, in hopes of making, with bit of luck, a narrow escape.
Don Carlos Says:
October 13th, 2014 at 12:48 pm
The Dallas nurse caught Ebola from Duncan because of the hue and cry raised against the hospital and its ER staff by Neo and many others. The hospital then shifted to a stance of “do everything.” When Duncan was admitted 9/28 the hospital emptied a 24-bed ICU for him…”
&&&
THIS is the peril.
The medical ethos can’t shift gears.
It’s protocol at a strategic level is to get everyone into the hospital if they’ve contracted something serious….
Disregarding whether or not a hospital, ANY hospital, even helps the patient — or whether such an act ruins that hospital for its original purpose — pretty much entirely.
&&&
If you view the VICE (emotion laden, emotionally oriented) video cited above — it’s plain that ebola has driven ALL routine healthcare out of the hospitals.
What no-one is admitting/ discussing/ resolving is how ebola SHUTS DOWN all normal hospital function.
De facto, Liberia has no hospitals left. Consequently the blood toll from ebola is still understated. One should add the tremendous numbers who’ve died because they can’t access hospital care. Souls who could’ve been saved — on the cheap — but now wander the streets spreading their (plain vanilla) pathogens.
This ^^^ is the institutional crisis.
It all gets back to the “everybody in one boat” protocol in today’s ERs.
Triage has to occur OUTSIDE The ER. Everyone with strictly a fever has to be shunted into a protocol for viral infection.
Because viruses are so common, ebola is going to be masked by every other (plain vanilla) virus to hand. That’s a real problem — and it’s why the President simply has to drop a quarantine down around west Africa.
Our entire healthcare system will collapse as surely as that of west Africa — once ebola gets a foothold.
The fever protocol I’ve detailed here is not going to be established until it’s entirely too late. I give you Liberia — right now. There they STILL haven’t figured out that fever patients need to be isolated from everyone else. — immediately.
%%%
The other (horrific) institutional error is permitting ebola candidates to stack up outside any institution.
The national medical alarm bell should’ve gone off long before.
No matter what is required, ebola candidates/ obvious victims can NEVER be returned to the general population, nor can they be allowed to wallow in the gutter. In Liberia, both situations are the norm.
Letting the sick wallow in gutters merely induces those in lesser states of distress to stay away from medical experts long enough to spew ebola to a new cluster of victims. Is it any wonder why an epidemic is underway — why a pandemic is in the offing?
Beyond that, no-one seems to have had the smarts to IMMEDIATELY hire on ebola survivors — in every capacity — as they are the ONLY souls that can survive ebola protocol errors. Instead, the Liberians are letting the survivors free to go home — as if they are no longer carriers (absolutely NOT true) and as if they are not needed like no other talent on Earth.
Just how stupid is stupid?
In a time without ANY medicine to address ebola, when palliative care is the limit of performance, such nurses need to be immune to ebola. They don’t need any medical training whatsoever.
The very talent Liberia needs to attend to the ill is allowed to WALK OFF. (into the sunset?)
Lacking that special, immune, talent — the pros are wasting staggering man-hours fiddling around with ebola haz-mat suits — only dying in the process.
Has NOBODY any smarts? — In the whole country? — In the world? (blog critics excepted)
&&&
Liberia should be a cautionary tale. It’s telling us exactly what’s wrong with our medical attitude. For America is going straight down the exact same protocol track that the Liberians have.
If figures, Liberia is practically the 51st State. They use our currency, our language, and our everythings. Liberia is what America would look like if it were ethnically pure Black and living back home in Africa.
It also has a notably high level of Muslim culture and practice. It’s taboo to mention it: but the absolute number one way of contracting ebola is to perform Muslim rites on the dead. You can Google them up. They involve the deceased’s immediate relatives to wipe down the body. Viral transmission is assured every time.
Ebola + Islamic rites = the infection of every Muslim, one by one.
Liberian authorities have already banned them. It’s too late. Further, out in the sticks, you just know that Islamic burial rites are still being (lethally) performed.
The future is obvious and bleak. WHEN ebola breaks out into the ummah it will spread like crazy. Islamic burial rites will not be changed until it’s entirely too late.
[ Tip for infidels: Muslims don’t maintain mortuaries in the Western/ Christian sense at all. Death rituals are not professionally out-sourced. Mo’ stipulated that one is to be buried by ones kin. The rites and the burial are to be performed with all due speed… as in the same day — and no later than the next day. 24 hours is considered the Islamic time limit.
Considering his climate and his time, Mo’s dicta makes perfect sense.
It’s a disaster during an ebola pandemic.]
&&&
Because of Presidential happy talk, the average Joe thinks that ebola is like HIV. This deceit may well kill millions by the end.
The public largely can’t comprehend exponentials. They don’t understand that a disease that is afflicting a handful of citizens can rage across the entire nation at lightning speed. Jet travel has consequences.
Dallas is the new Liberia.
Not what I said.
I said the vilification of the hospital’s 9/25 error/conduct caused them to overreact on 9/28 and after. That vilification was by you and many others. It is too bad you ignore the rest of my thoughts on this. Adios.
For those who ask why Duncan would not readily volunteer on his first visit to the ER that he had possibly had an exposure to ebola in the days preceding his decamping Liberia for the U.S., if he had any thought he might have it: Ask yourselves what would have been the reaction he might have expected if he had not only admitted that he had “traveled recently in west Africa”, but more specifically that he was just here from Liberia, and had mere days before handled the desperately ill and convulsing body of a woman who hours later died of supposed “malaria”?
His alternatives were: 1. seriously legally embarrass himself under the most hopeful of circumstances, regarding his openness and truthfulness to authorities;
Huff Po
Dallas Morning News
2, to bring instantly vilification upon himself under the probable case; or 3, to wait it out, professing ignorance, hoping for the best, and trying not to infect his apartment mates, if worse came to worse.
And under that plan, if he had ebola after having recently “traveled in Africa”, well, how could he have been expected to suspect it?
DNW,
Perhaps this is the report you remember:
“From the clinic, where she was given an intravenous drip but deteriorated sharply, they were sent to an Ebola treatment unit and then another, at a time when there were no Ebola beds available in the city.”
http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-ebola-liberia-20141003-story.html
Since Ebola is a death sentence for a pregnant woman it does seem strange that the Liberian medics sent a woman they had just diagnosed with malaria to an Ebola hospital.
Somewhere I read that family members were worried because some small children had visited and had given Duncan kisses and hugs. He’d have to have been a very bad man indeed to have knowingly exposed them to a deadly disease. But everything I’ve read about him shows him to have been a kind man who loved his family very much.
The Dallas hospital failed to keep its staff safe because I criticized their incompetent handling of Duncan’s first ER visit, and their incompetent handling of the reporting afterwards?
You have jumped the shark.
No, that’s just DC being emotionally attached to the professionalism of his profession, or rather former profession.
Since it didn’t exist in the first place, it’s difficult for people to recognize it. Same for police when looking at police corruption. Years ago, every time there would be conservative talk about the police’s problems, some police guy would come up and defend their department or system. This led to the real problem being covered up for some time.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-13/cidrap-we-believe-there-scientific-evidence-ebola-has-potential-be-airborne
Now experts are opining very much like myself.
Ebola gives every evidence that it can be spread by aerosols.
It’d make MUCH more sense that the health care crowd is breathing in ebola than anything else.
This would jibe with the high percentage of ‘goofs’ and fatalities.
West African techniques, everyone’s techniques, are kicking ebola into aerosol form all over everywhere.
It can’t be ruled out and if true, makes more sense than anything opined by the CDC.
One more trivial thought: ebola candidates and patients need face masks — immediately.
They are dirt cheap.
Yet, you never see face masks on ANYBODY. — Not even American citizens in Dallas.
truth unites… and divides Says:
October 13th, 2014 at 8:36 am
Blert, et al, what do you think of colloidal silver?
Not just silver… also copper and gold…
They need to be tested in a lab setting IMMEDIATELY.
The coinage metals are known to foul up cellular wall structures. It’s for this reason that bronze is so strongly favored/ metal plate for doorknobs in commercial structures. It actually decontaminates itself!
&&&
The CDC has let us ALL DOWN. All of this research should’ve been done — and in the record books Y E A R S ago.
Ebola is no last second problem.
What has CDC been doing with its time and facilities?
It’s obviously run like the Post Office… maybe a laboratory retirement community.
The ‘great minds’ at the CDC are NOT BRIGHT, not bright at all.
DNW, et al
Are you familiar with the term “bleeding heart liberal”?
If so, and with no disrespect to Neo, perhaps there’s some residual tendencies of “bleeding heart liberal” from Neo with regards to Duncan and charges of moral culpability and being morally complicit.
Although I don’t buy it, I certainly could see others believing that there’s a reasonable doubt as to what Duncan knew or suspected and when he knew or suspected from Neo’s defense attorney-like work.
A) Charge Guilt – Actually Guilty.
B) Charge Guilt – Actually Not Guilty.
C) Defend Innocence – Actually Innocent.
D) Defend Innocence – Actually Guilty.
100% certainty seems to be off the table at this point. I don’t see anything wrong with vigorously contending 60% certainty and above either way.
Truth Unites:
I have absolutely no problem with believing someone would be motivated to lie about his/her ebola status for any number of reasons, or about whether he/she had been in close contact with an ebola patient recently.
But the more I read, the more I realized that the facts in Duncan’s case did not support it in the least, once looked into with the tools of logic at hand. I want any assertion of guilt to be supported by the evidence. Although “beyond a reasonable doubt” is the standard in a criminal court, I don’t require that standard to come to conclusions in terms of my own personal opinion (it would be different if I were on a jury, of course). But the evidence for Duncan’s guilt is incredibly poor (not going to go into all the details of that here, since I have at great length in other posts and comments).
I am a compassionate person, but not a bleeding heart, liberal or otherwise. But when I come to believe, based on evidence and logic, that a person is innocent and is being falsely (and, in my opinion, illogically, or carelessly) excoriated as being guilty, I don’t like it.
Fair enough, Neo.
And while I’m not altogether persuaded by your arguments, I do think you argue your case very, very well and don’t mind your fervent pushback. I think it sharpens the debate in very helpful ways.
Of course, I’m not emotionally invested. I’m more invested in “It’s here. What do we do now, individually, local community, and nationally?”
Ann:
Yes, that’s one of the many things that are puzzling about people who want to say Duncan was lying, he knew, etc.. They usually don’t stop to think exactly what they’re accusing him of, which is a really heinous act of callous selfishness of a very very high level. Purposely exposing hundreds of people to a very deadly and dread disease—including virtually all of those near and dear to him—and for what? So he can get better treatment in the US, and then purposely keeping mum about his prior ebola exposure when speaking to the medical authorities who might finally be able to help him and/or help protect his loved ones—thus, by his silence at the hospital, sealing his own doom? They’re accusing him of being a really vile person, and then an incredibly stupid and/or suicidal person, and ignoring the fact that prior to this incident, no one has described him as anything but a loving person towards family and friends, and even that the way in which he contracted ebola is a good demonstration of his care and kindness.
It makes absolutely no sense, and is an incredibly contradictory tale even as a hypothetical. And yet people cling to it for some reason. Lots of people.
neo…
For cultural reasons I think that the CDC — indeed all Americans — missed a KEY element of pregnancies in west Africa.
Due to the varagies of the local food supply — going back into antiquity – it’s the universal tradition to stuff expecting mothers with calories — almost as if they were geese for the table.
And in such diets, FATS are much preferred.
FATS = a super abundance of LIPIDS in the bloodstream.
LIPIDS HAVE TO BE THE METABOLIC RESTRAINT AGAINST EBOLA.
It’s the only explanation as to why fruit bats and other herbivores can survive ebola. Such diets are strikingly low in fats/ lipids.
“Lipids are a group of naturally occurring molecules that include fats, waxes, sterols, fat-soluble vitamins (such as vitamins A, D, E, and K), monoglycerides, diglycerides, triglycerides, phospholipids, and others.”
Williams’ hyper rapid progression of ebola is metabolically linked.
This also explains the universal mortality of pregnant African mothers from ebola.
It’s their diet. Every last mother is being practically force fed a high fat diet.
Diet must be a huge factor in ebola progression.
ANYONE with a high fat/ high lipid diet is going to experience ebola on steroids.
Ebola will be even more lethal in the First World — with its rich diets — than in the Third World.
&&&
Sulfites (common in red wine) may totally foul up the ebola chemistry — its lipid sheath.
Such fatty acids may be shifted over to ‘fatty bases’ in the presence of this stronger (organic) acid. (become a conjugate base)
&&&
Diet simply has to be a significant factor in ebola reproduction in vivo.
A low lipid diet may extend ones fight long enough to survive it.
Whereas, poor Williams shows, stuffing oneself silly with fats is a lethal diet.
This is the single factor that is separating the human reaction to ebola compared to the rest of mammalia.
This correlation is NOT going to be discovered in vitro.
This plausible factor needs to be brought to the attention of medical personnel immediately.
The extremely fatty diets of west African mothers are very likely to pass unknown in CDC circles. African locals would not bring it up as it passes as common knowledge. The level of force feeding normal there would never occur to any First World virologist.
I believe that the CDC does not recognize that lipids are harvested by ebola for its sheath.
But the virus is totally unable to synthesize them itself.
For if it could do so, then fruit bats would be falling out of the skies all over Africa.
(BTW, even fruit bats are not above eating the occasional insect that gets intercepted. This is how they obtain protein; they resemble humming birds in this regard.)
&&&
This is also an indication that chicken soup is NOT to be given to ebola candidates/ victims. Too fatty.
Being drunk on red wine may prove out as a superior form of nutrition. We can metabolize it. Ebola can’t.
Other than lipids, I can’t imagine any organic component that would limit ebola reproduction. It’s that simple of a virus.
It’s a core of DNA wrapped in a (largely) lipid sheath.
We have no hope of starving it of amino acids; lipids — just maybe.
This low lipid diet is no cure. I merely hope that it may provide a time window long enough for our immune systems to crush ebola.
&&&
I know of no other working theory that explains why humanity is so uniquely vulnerable to ebola.
It’s simple enough — and harmless enough — to test straight away.
It, the diet, should be administered to ebola candidates at the first sign of a fever — even earlier if this is possible.
Lipid concentrations may well explain why ebola comes on like gangbusters for some — and not quite as horrific for others.
Her name is Nina Pham. She knew the job was dangerous when she took it. She’s brave, conscientious and true.
If hospital emergency rooms will be closed for decontamination (or a wildcat strike) because of one case of Ebola, then a handful of cases at different hospitals will not only end treatment of Ebola, but treatment of all medical emergencies.
If hospital emergency rooms remain open will Ebola patients stagger in the door, Ebola will spread.
The Brights and the experts often take a very long time to think about anything beyond their mutual conception and bubble of intellectual fantasies.
The Obedience to Authority, especially in the form of expertise as authority, is common. People in a group have a collective IQ far lower than the sum of the parts. Why is that? People literally stop thinking when a leader or authoritarian starts talking.
There’s plenty of surgical type masks in Japan when people are sick or don’t want to be sick.
Incredible …
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/10/airport_screening_for_ebola_did_thomas_eric_duncan_lie_and_should_liars.single.html
A supposed philosopher no less. Duncan didn’t lie, but it’s ok he did. He was selfless and noble, but understandably seized the main chance; and it’s good all around that he did.
Left a comment on this “philosopher’s” homesite since Slate didn’t seem to offer space for one.
Good Lord, if ebola really strikes this country hard, expect to see the compassion pimping left manically dancing through the streets like ergot poisoned flagellants.