Some puzzles
You might say the whole Boston bombing story is a puzzlement, the big question being “why?” It’s easy to speculate—and I’ve done so myself—but I hope we’ll be able to find out a lot more as the days go on.
But for now I have a couple of less central questions: why did the terrorists spare the man whose car they took? They were on a killing spree, and had nothing to lose by killing him, too. But they did not. Did they identify with him in some way, since he was a man of about their age? If so, that certainly didn’t stop them on Monday from killing and maiming a lot of other similar people their age. Perhaps the difference was that he was a single individual, someone they had talked to. Or perhaps it was purely pragmatic; they just didn’t see the need of killing him.
Why rob a convenience store? Didn’t this call a lot of unwanted attention to themselves? I assume they needed money, and didn’t want to use their ATM cards because they thought the police might already know their names. But still.
Who was the third man who was shown being arrested last night? Was that just a police error, or is there a third suspect?
Were the perps on their way to commit another terrorist act last night? There were a few reports that they had with them another pressure cooker and explosives.
And of course, the obvious: where is Dzokhar Tsarnaev? If he has confederates to help him, he’s more likely to be able to hide or escape successfully. If not, he may run out of resources and draw attention to himself again.
Or he may have killed himself already, in some relatively isolated place. This would not be unusual for this sort of situation.
I heard that one of the Boston Bombers tweeted that he is a strong supporter of gun control.
It’s a crazy situation right now, but the one benefit is that it has gripped the attention of everyone in the media. It would be impossible for Obama et al. to sweep this under the rug as they did with Benghazi. They and the MSM will likely try to characterize this as some random, lone wolf type attack, but we’re now seeing a pattern of terrorist activity on Obama’s watch that never happened under Bush post 9/11. Ft Hood, Benghazi, the Boston Marathon, green on blue attacks by “friendlies” in Afghanistan. How long will they get away with claiming that the greatest threat to the US is AGW (per Kerry) or domestic, right-wing militia and Christians (Napolitano)?
too bad i put why in the other thread..
i knew the second i did that, you would start another.
(i have a remarkable scan done by a web-crawler showing that… amazing… but then again, coding lets you measure what is, not what one feels, and i like to measure to make sure…)
it drives me crazy when people wno dont spend much time with reality, start using the parrot stuff to try to work things out. they are always confused, and yet, never look to what they are saying and if its premises are correct, and so on. garbage in, garbage out.
its only a puzzle if you decided to ignore the russian stuff with osetia, georgia, chechyns and all that.
now, i remember you did tell me that the reason was that this was not your interest. but i contend. that it IS your interest, but the problem is that you cant take it before the event, your too reactionary to extrapolate forwards, so you are always looking in the rear view.
now, if you navigate by the rear view, everything surprises you… no? becuase there is no way to ANTICIPATE, and your idea of using your pleasure sense to find it, also negates it!!!!!!!!!!
you cant anticipate looking backwards…
you cant find stink with your nose clogged with perfume
from neos blog
September 7th, 2008
Message to Obama from a vet
Oh yeah we tried that and people were real upset about it; in an fabricated case of ethnic bullying, the Sudetenland was occupied to protect it from those evil Czechoslovakian. Next, Poland got a whole lot of love. And it happened again last month in Abkhazia and South Ossetia; love exciting and new.
September 8th, 2008
It’s the class war, stupid
And what is it that Russia doing today to Georgia, Sergey? Oh, yeah, right–it’s protecting Russian nationals in Ossetia! (Like they haven’t played that game before!)
its 2013…
5 years later
and your wondering why?
you wonder because your time base is too small to include things that exceed it. ie. if they go too slow, and there is too much time between event A and event B, you cant keep up!!!!!!!!!
at what point did you not realize that the quote by putin about the IMF and what is hitting the US…
what point will the murdered military of one country in that area would register?
what point would the history of that area, of the Chechen, the Russians, the Georgians, and their fight for self determination, AND OUR ABANDONING THEM register?
if your going to ignore the lead up in favor of hindsight, your not going to understand it, till someone now writes up a false thing to let you know what you missed!!!!!!!!!
August 12th, 2008
Russia and Georgia, and wars cold and hot: the Kingdom of Earth
here are your own words…
http://neoneocon.com/2008/08/12/russia-and-georgia-and-wars-cold-and-hot-the-kingdom-of-earth/
Working through their mercenaries in South Ossetia, Russia staged brutal provocations against Georgia from late July onward. Last Thursday, Georgia’s president finally had to act to defend his own people. But when the mouse stirred, the cat pounced.
with obama working with russia, and the reset button, and not coming to georgias aid, and the chechyns joining georgia in their struggle…
that maybe that is what motivates the kids from that area to avenge their families and to punish the US for thinking less of them than syria, jordan, egypt, etc?
i said that far back that it wont sit…
they are not going to go gentle into that good night
and they are as brutal as the people they oppose
when you fight spetznatz, their behavior makes you change
here is what YOU wrote
notice your talking about the Chechen too…
I’ve always thought there was something very passive aggressive about bombs. There’s no physical exertion, and you don’t have to look at the people you’re trying to kill. You just set a fuze or press a button and walk away.
The shootout with the police shows these guys were capable of real violence when they felt threatened. Still, I think that sitting next to the driver of the SUV, in a relatively calm situation, they just didn’t have it in them to kill an innocent man.
[i am trying to get this in quick. if i wait, then a new thread starts before my comments are seen. so i have to comment fast, and sorry, longer due to lack of time… people adapt to the environment, not to words or ideas…]
But for now I have a couple of less central questions: why did the terrorists spare the man whose car they took? They were on a killing spree, and had nothing to lose by killing him, too. But they did not. Did they identify with him in some way, since he was a man of about their age? If so, that certainly didn’t stop them on Monday from killing and maiming a lot of other similar people their age. Perhaps the difference was that he was a single individual, someone they had talked to. Or perhaps it was purely pragmatic; they just didn’t see the need of killing him.
they had limited ammunition if at all…
ie. what were they going to do, jam a pressure cooker down his pants? have him hold a grenade in his teeth. they did not respond to the police with guns, they threw explosives out the back…
maybe, they know from experience, that trying to kill him with bear hands may turn out badly, dumping him means nothing…
its your idea they were on a killin spree.
i see no killing spree… i see a planned mission
no different than if you sent seal team to get osama bin laden… after the mission they dont go out and murder everyone they see in a killing spree.
Why rob a convenience store? Didn’t this call a lot of unwanted attention to themselves? I assume they needed money, and didn’t want to use their ATM cards because they thought the police might already know their names. But still.
now this depends on what you think happens when you do this. most convenience stores just turn over the cash.. its hard to get cash quickly… think about it… atm machines are tiny fortresses. they dont care about the ATM, they assumed their accounts were locked (Which they probably were)… they may have tried and it didnt work.
they tried to get their girlfriends car, but it was in the shop…
right now you dont have enough of a timeline to work out which shop, or if it was part of a gas station garage thing… or if they even heard sirens and thought they were coming for them.
in fact, terrorist two, ran over his brother possibly killing him as he tried to drive through the police.
Who was the third man who was shown being arrested last night? Was that just a police error, or is there a third suspect?
and who are they deporting back to saudi family?
your not going to know… this is the most transparent government… ie. hegelian translation: we are opaque as soviets now… and they are our friends… we sent a rebate button rebuilt from staples…
Were the perps on their way to commit another terrorist act last night? There were a few reports that they had with them another pressure cooker and explosives. </i<
yes, but maybe not lastnight
they had bomb vests on, talked about ny, wanted the girlfriends car. and threw bombs out the car windows..
ie. they had a plan, it fell apart, they fell apart…
And of course, the obvious: where is Dzokhar Tsarnaev? If he has confederates to help him, he’s more likely to be able to hide or escape successfully. If not, he may run out of resources and draw attention to himself again.
Or he may have killed himself already, in some relatively isolated place. This would not be unusual for this sort of situation.</i<
i thought he may have killed himself…
but then, i remembered that people on a mission dont do that, crazies do that…
men on a mission try to do more before they go
so i dont think he committed suicide, unless he is upset about his brother.
what i think is that he ran to a safe house..
or will hide till things calm down
he is from a deprived place, he can endure…
they may be kids
they may be brothers
what they do or would do
depends on training, and what is ready for them…
boston has a very large islamic community…
its not hard to hide a young man
and he can even be wearing a burkha as others did
him being 19, will make his eyes easy to believe its female.
the bigger thing though is the creation of whole societies with this attitude from the actions of prior history and such being ignored.
thats it..
enjoy the weekend as i tend not to type then
so i rushed to get this all in, before it dies
the thread in the other place was much better and i took the time to edit it in word. but its mostly unread now because of that. so i am learning not to do that… adaptation… we do it even when we arent thinking how…
Arfldgr: you may correct about the limitations of their ammunition, but it is my impression that they did do plenty of shooting at the police, not just tossing the explosives (which they also used).
By “killing spree” I did not mean the words in the technical sense of being spree killers. I just meant that they had already killed many people, and so one more probably wouldn’t matter to them in that sense.
And yes, one of my ideas about the motive for a possible suicide would be as a reaction to the death of his older brother. That would be especially true if the brother died because the younger one ran over him.
Chechen President blames AMERICA for Boston bomb suspects’ acts of evil ,,,,
Chechen President blames AMERICA for Boston bomb suspects’ acts of evil because of ‘immoral upbringing’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2311664/Chechen-President-blames-AMERICA-Boston-bomb-suspects-acts-evil-immoral-upbringing.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Suspects may have attacked US because of its relationship with Russia
Chechen militants have long history of attacking Russia, but never West
Expert says aftermath of 2004 Beslan school siege sparked hatred for West
[actually i think it was the invasions and lack of response from Obama, with the open desire to be friends. the friend of my enemy is what?]
Chechnya’s Russian-backed president has hit out at America for killing one of the suspected Boston Marathon bombers and blamed the US for moulding them into terrorists.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Muslim militants from Chechnya have a long history of unleashing devastating terror attacks on Russia — but the allegations of involvement in the Boston Marathon blasts would mark the first time they have targeted the West.
However, the United States may have become a target for Chechen terrorists in the wake of the harrowing Beslan school hostage crisis nearly ten years ago, an expert claimed today.
The world watched in horror in 2004 as armed Islamic separatist militants, some Chechen, occupied a school in Beslan, North Ossetia, and killed more than 380 people.
Pacifism and Weakness attracts predators…
they did not go in guns blazing…
they did not kill the people with poisonous gas
the majority of deaths were from rescue personel who laid the drugged people down on their backs instead of their sides. they swallowed their tongues and being so sedated, they didnt even choke, but soffocated.
[wish they would not be parrots too… ]
on September 1 2004, a group of 32 heavily-armed, masked men seized control of Middle School Number One and more than 1,000 hostages in Beslan, North Ossetia.
Most of the hostages were children aged from six to sixteen years old.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
DO note that the people of this area live in the only land bridge from russia to the southern countries.. so they have always been attacked and such by russia. they have a deep dislike going back to before wwii…
but in more modern times… you make them independent as bush was helping them do, the bridge would close, and munitions to syria, africa, iran, iraq, jordan, and more would not be able to get to where they are going
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
these groups are more competent than the arab groups, and their women join in too… many many many of the worst attacks including norosst seige was by women, not the men…
Except for the one uncle, who has apparently left the reservation, we are hearing the usual after the fact disclaimers by friends and family.
Perhaps it is futile to attempt to ascribe rational motives to irrational actors.
I’ll bet that Marco Rubio is wishing this story would just disappear now.
The most important information about Chechens is about 150 years old but still relevant. Russian general Ermilov who conquered Caucasus for Russian Empire wrote to Catherine the Great about them: “This people impossible to rehabilitate, they can be only exterminated”. Everybody who was so unlucky to have to deal with Chechens among my friends completely agree with this assertion. Never accept as immigrant anybody from this cruel, uppity and violent tribe.
Another bit of information. There is a Russian proverb: One Chechen is relatively harmless until he decides that it is in his best interest to slit your throat. Two Chechens are a gang of bandits, and three Chechens are a rebel army.
Did anyone see the interview with the aunt? She is amazingly obnoxious.
neo…
to shoot at police is to reserve your munitions for a target that can shoot back… to waste bullets on a person you can dump, is just that, a waste.
a sad thing about our ideas of this thing is that people who do this are crazy… but crazy as people might want to understand, usually means a thought process disorder and an inability towards the methodic nature of doing these things.
what we ignore is that most of them are highly educated wealthy kids (like ayers and boudin and the feminsits too.. in the US).
what you may not realize is the difference in education they get, and how that translates to an attitude…
i dare you to take a day and go to the Dalton school in manhatten and see how they are taught vs common core for the rest of the slaves…
people who are not trained. or go by imagination, make the mistakes that beginners make… this is what your used to seeing..
people who are trained, whether real or circumstances of their life, they act differntly.. they focus on different things…they do things that beginners or people who never been shot at and such cant imagine…
but if you notice, doing what you imagine, is less good than what they did….
so shooting the cop at MIT makes sense…
you may not think so, but neutralizing him, meant that a radio call to the area would take longer… he would not have radioed in a suspicion and that he was going to check.
the reason you take the man in the car with you, is what kind of car they have. the Mercedes Benz SUV requires a 5 digit security code.. so you want the person with you… why did they not kick him out earlier… because of:
Mercedes-Benz and Hughes Telematics have partnered to create their own iteration of Ford’s Sync, and GM’s OnStar offerings. This new technology will be known as “mbrace,” and will feature 18 unique services.
so, you let him go, and he calls, and Mbrace cuts the engine and locks the doors, and rolls up the windows.
KNOWLEGE can change BEHAVIOR
and does… and so you can work back from BEHAVIOR to knowledge
which i do all the time, as its my way of figuring out what people know, even if they dont admit it, and to what level they know (memorized but not incorporated, etc)
so knowing details things become a bit easier.
so what doesnt make sense at first blush, is actually stuff that makes MORE Sense, but seems otherwise as your ruler to measure is the behavior of more random crimes with people who were not trained at all, and who, just want to do and get away without any altercations (Which they avoid planning for)
let me clue people here on another thing that no one will bring up, but that i notice.
immigrants do not understand, and neither do a lot of born here people, to what degree our country is integrated.
they often think they can get away with things or lie and that technology wont get them.
so you have black priests writing race things on his house, and he burns it down… then forensics catches him… obviously, if he knew what they could do, he would BEHAVE DIFFERENTLY AS real knowlege that is incorporated changes behavior… so if you ask him, he may evne answer yes yes yes to your questions, but since its not integrated, it was not used when he decided to burn his own house down for ideological making history and fame, or whatnot
the woman that is in the news having tweated that all white people are going to get killed soon anyway… (or something like that, i tend not ot memorize such missives). they fired her fast… and now she is suing claiming her facebook account was hacked.
but i am a software engineer in a department that works on a super computer now… and i can tell you, long long ago we got tired of skeevy people who would blame others, the computer, etc… so long long long ago, we invented LOG FILES.. now, many people know about log files, but they do not incorporate the fact into their knowlege as other than a hanging fact, and so they do not change their behaviors. and so this woman will get a very rude suprise that there is an ip, and a record of all hops, and moves. and that unless she can change her story that a burglar cme in, stole nothing, broke into facebook, wrote that, then left… she is in trouble
serious people that do serious things like this who are fully cognizant of what they are doing and motivated, have integrated informaiton, and so do not behave like the gang banger or the kid.
even you said it…
“the way they walked.. ”
knowlege, gives confidence believe seldom does.
they walked as if they knew that there was no way to stop them, and they were right… its interesting to note that the most bloodied man who lost his legs, saw the bag be put down, and got eye contact with the kid…
so there goes that idea of pressing a button and not being there. not only did they go there, walk among the people, see the chilren, hear them too… but when they were setting the explosive, they had the eye of a victim too.
maybe THAT might change your assesments?
they were, as soviets say, PRAGMATIC…
ie. they did what was right for what they were doing, without any regard for non essentials, like feelings, superstitions, guilt, etc.
but remember who their families used to fight.
i remember seeing the first of the Aiens movies, and it was interesting, as i could not easily accept such a creature… why? beccause predators are designed to kill prey… they end up shaped towards that end… as their prey changes too… so the big question would be, what the hell on their planet is so mean, that they do not over run it and everythig dies?
so, your opposition is what creates you…
the islamics of the world that we are used to. come from a world where competence is not as high, and believe it or not, ruthlessness is also not as high…
but, remember who the chechyns were up against, what yead did that country pretend to stop being soviet, and what spetznatz troops are like.
they were created by the oppositionj to spetznatz.
Historically, the term referred to the military special units controlled by the military intelligence service GRU, the Spetsnaz GRU.
[to see their symbol is to realize that they are batman.. ha ha]
In 1950, Georgy Zhukov advocated the creation of 46 military spetsnaz companies (each company consisted of 120 servicemen). It was the first time after World War II, when the term “spetsnaz” appeared as an original name of the separate military branch. Later, these companies were expanded to battalions, and then to brigades, respectively. However, certain separate companies (orSpN) and detachments (ooSpN) existed along with brigades until the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
24 years after the origin of military Spetsnaz, the first counter-terrorist unit was established by Yuri Andropov, the head of KGB. In the late 1970s and through the 1980s various special purpose units were created within the KGB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs (MVD).
In the 1990s, special detachments were established within the Federal Penitentiary Service (FSIN) and the Airborne Troops (VDV), respectively. Today, even some civil agencies with non-police functions have created their own special units, which are also called “spetsnaz”, such as “Leader” special centre within the Ministry of Emergency Situations (MChS).
[so now you may know what big sis is copying with all the armor for varous agencies and guns… its a reorg along he lines of what? ]
so… these are the people that the chechens had to match or beat to keep what they have…
look up Vympel.. i brought them up before..
Vympel (or Vega, also known under other names) was formed in 1981 from a merge of two elite Cold War-era KGB special units Cascade (Kaskad) and Zenith (Zenit) that were similar to the CIA’s Special Activities Division (responsible for covert operations involving sabotage, assassination, etc. in other countries), re-designated for counter-terrorist and counter-sabotage operations. Currently they are tasked with protection of strategic installations such as key factories and transportation centers. They are also heavily used in missions in the North Caucasus, along with their counterparts from Alpha. Vympel has four operative units stationed in Moscow, but it also has multiple branch offices in virtually every city where there is a nuclear power plant.
so this is the group that they would fight against
a dedicated spetsnaz unit specialised in deep penetration, sabotage, universal direct and covert action, protection of Soviet embassies and espionage cell activation in case of war.
In 1995, the FSB Special Operations Center (TsSN FSB) was granted control over Vympel. The group regained its original name and was reintegrated into the Intelligence Service structures. The emphasis shifted from covert and clandestine sabotage operations to counter-terrorism and nuclear safety enforcement. Vympel operatives undergo special training related to improvised or special explosive devices, permitting them to use “terrorist-like” tactics to carry out their operations.
so guess what? they do false flag too..
so was our boys trained by Vympel or trained by AQ? both?
Vympel (i.e. the Directorate “V” of the TsSN FSB) is still a classified and secretive unit. It took part in Russia’s Chechen campaigns and in storming of the Supreme Soviet building during the 1993 Russian constitutional crisis. Little is known about its current operations and activities, the exception being the capture of the Chechen militant leader Salman Raduyev in March 2000 and the assault on the school in Beslan in September 2004.
I saw that mizpants. As well as the statement by the father. I am beginning to think the entire family falls somewhere just south of being sane. Sergey appears to be on target here.
Seems interesting to me that the younger brother attended the school the was attended by Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. Since their first film they have pushed the ideas of Howard Zinn. Are the poisonous ideas of this “intellectual” the root that bore the poisoned fruit of these Chechens?
. . . and i can tell you, long long ago we got tired of skeevy people who would blame others . . .
Theory number 1 of causation: pathological and ideological
Theory number 2 of causation: off the range special forces
Number 1 brings in the blame game. Most killers blame others for their hatred and uncontrollable homicidal manic disorder. The remark of one of the older brother that he had not made even one friend and didn’t understand Americans is a strong clue.
Number 2 is pretty unlikely although doesn’t the series “Fringe” take place in Harvard and Boston?
To kaba1776, I don’t know were you’re from but here in NYC we meet a lot of “New Immigrants” and they seem to be loaded with conspiracy theories. As you talk to them you have continuous WTF moments. The last time was a Russian who was so sure that the Jews had driven the Germans and Russians to fight. Just about the level of 9/11 truth.
Welcome to the HALL OF MIRRORS
Wall Street Journal 2006
License to Kill
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116658415633355185.html
so why bring up this old article?
Motrokhin pointed out that they did this before then, and there are still a whole lot of these all over the US and Europe. these were all protected with lightning devices…
the point is that when you are alone, your resource poor, and have no assistance.
but, these guys were doing some form of mission. not only that, but they took years to do it… did it well, and what fouled them up was how integrated the US is outside of government. IE. if you judge the capabilities of the US by its state and police, you will come up short… you HAVE to include everyone else who self organizes into a team that functions, this spans videos, and photos, and experts writing in, and witnesses and so on… here those things actually work!
the point is that depending on who they trained with, they may have already had a safe house… that the young lad may be there… he may be in a boot of a car.
they may have only needed the carjack to get to an area where there is a safe house and they could stay for a year if they had to. or someone could pull in a uhaul truck and load a piece of furniture into it that contains one of them,put more junk in it, and drive out of the area
we learn a lot from defectors.. including those that leave American liberalism… which is why i endlessly say to read them… they not only know what people do and did, they helped them.
do these skills sound familiar?
to be able to hide in the enemies country
have expertise with fabricated explosives
be able to move through crowds and security
did anyone the past few days have these skills and more? we may look for an explosive they bought but they could also get it from a hidden cache.. we dont know… (but i do know from Mitrokhen, and from nistory records, and from Araffats book, and from ceucescaues biography and more, that russia controls islamic jihad mostly… (the attacks on russia is the desire for them to break from their masters and bcome their own, a danger in any group you empower and facilitate. every despot who gets in bed from idi amine to arafat ended up trying to turn the tables on their keepers)
This work continues in today’s Russia.
when Obama got in bed with Putin and medvedev, the US stopped being a friend and became a target…
Russian Special Forces deploy to Syria to conduct counterterrorism operations
http://www.examiner.com/article/russian-special-forces-deploy-to-syria-to-conduct-counterterrorism-operations
[those who like army porn may like the picture of them on a building around windows]
According to reports by Al Arabiya, Russia has sent elite special forces teams into Syria to conduct counter terrorism operations designed to neutralize al-Qaida and others Islamic terrorists, including those Libyans of who have been covertly trained, financed and equipped by the United States and NATO forces to infiltrate Syria and destabilize the regime, in violation of international laws
The teams in Syria now are thought to be from the highly trained spetsgruppa and vympel units, they will most likely be supported by Russian foreign intelligence agents and their covert operatives”, says W. Spence, a military affairs analyst working for a private corporation in Charlotte, N.C.
Hill speculates that should the United States bomb Syria they will be risking a world war with Russia. Russia maintains a naval base in Syria in part to protect over 200,000 Russian citizens who live and work in Syria. The Russian military will have an obligation to protect those citizens from American air strike and bombing raids. Should Russian citizens be killed or murdered in any US Air strikes or cruise missile attacks they will face the wrath of the entire Russian militar
these pockets of people are what prevent peace…
and its old russian technique. just imagine if the US tried to do something, from brighton beach to syria there is always a pocket that has to be rescued, and is always there to supply and help too.
for those interested
i recommend the KGB in afghanistan by Vassili Mitrohken…
The last time was a Russian who was so sure that the Jews had driven the Germans and Russians to fight
from neo thread
http://neoneocon.com/2011/05/23/heres-a-riddle-how-is-obama-like-arafat/
Divide and Conquer: The KGB disinformation campaign against Ukrainians and Jews
http://www.scribd.com/doc/32488080/Divide-and-Conquer-the-KGB-Disinform…
and
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion
they dont mention the document, but this is the source of that line of thinking. i have several people in my neighborhood that started that crap too.
but this is the important part to notice.
The Protocols is a fabricated document purporting to be factual. It was originally produced in Russia between 1897 and 1903, possibly by Pyotr Ivanovich Rachkovsky, head of the Paris office of the Russian Secret Police, and unknown others
Source material for the forgery consisted jointly of Dialogue aux enfers entre Machiavel et Montesquieu or Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, an 1864 political satire by Maurice Joly[4] and a chapter from Biarritz, an 1868 novel by the antisemitic German novelist Hermann Goedsche, which had been translated into Russian in 1872
so… did hitlers antisemitism and fords come from some place? yes… this is why if you go to soviet story, you can see the posters where hitler and stalin use the same nazi hand salute… that was dropped by stalin to distinguish themselves in germany… and they circulated these papers too…
here is where it gets interesting
Publication history
so they are still playing with that trash today
it also colors islam after germany and the islamics got together to extermiante the jews
(today, they will exterminate the white race, as the jews are a group within that larger group. so if you cant get to the smaller group withotu the larger group defending them. then do you give up, or take them all out in some way, even if its demographcs?)
In the United States, The Protocols are to be understood in the context of the First Red Scare (1917—1920). The text circulated in 1919 in American government circles, specifically diplomatic and military, in typescript form, a copy of which is archived by the Hoover Institute.
It also appeared in 1919 in the Public Ledger as a pair of serialized newspaper articles. But all references to “Jews” were replaced with references to Bolsheviki as an exposé by the journalist and subsequently highly respected Columbia University School of Journalism dean Carl W. Ackerman
In 1923, there appeared an anonymously edited pamphlet by the Britons Publishing Society, a successor to The Britons, an entity created and headed by Henry Hamilton Beamish. This imprint was allegedly a translation by Victor E. Marsden, who died in October 1920
In the US, Henry Ford sponsored the printing of 500,000 copies, and, from 1920 to 1922, published a series of antisemitic articles titled “The International Jew: The World’s Foremost Problem”, in The Dearborn Independent, a newspaper he owned. In 1921, Ford cited evidence of a Jewish threat: “The only statement I care to make about the Protocols is that they fit in with what is going on. They are 16 years old, and they have fitted the world situation up to this time.”
so… do not think that these people who started sanger, and liked hitler and stalin and all that would suddenly not like them… they still do. their CHILDREN all over the world are fighting the war against each other, and we are caught in the middle of it!
Modern era
See also: Contemporary imprints of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and New World Order
The Protocols continue to be widely available around the world, particularly on the internet, as well as in print in Japan, the Middle East, Asia, and South America
so now you know why La RAZA…
Governments or political leaders in most parts of the world have not referred to the Protocols since World War II. The exception to this is the Middle East, where a large number of Arab and Muslim regimes and leaders have endorsed them as authentic, including endorsements from Presidents Gamal Abdel Nasser and Anwar Sadat of Egypt, one of the President Arifs of Iraq, King Faisal of Saudi Arabia, and Colonel Muammar al-Gaddafi of Libya. The 1988 charter of Hamas, a Palestinian Islamist group, states that The Protocols of the Elders of Zion embodies the plan of the Zionists.[75] Recent endorsements in the 21st century have been made by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Sheikh Ekrima Sa’id Sabri, the education ministry of Saudi Arabia, member of the Greek Parliament Ilias Kasidiaris, and young earth creationist and tax protester Kent Hovind.
its been circulated by the same people for over 100 years.. its well known its a forgery… but you can bet that the people who are part of this, have read it, or similar…
remember First Lady of the Press Helen Thomas?
she let her ugly mask slip to an uglier one
she told the jews to go back home…
(forgetting she is no longer in the ayers, obama, and other elite rarified place where such is not uncommon and forgot to change gears)
I will just go on record here as saying that i appreciate artfldgr, and I know now how his posts are so long and quotes so detailed (which I have marveled at, amazed that anyone has the time for that): he’s a software engineer! I am a computer plebe. Thanks, art; and thanks, Neo, to putting up with his length and his occasional impatience and directness, shortcomings from which I also suffer.
Please, start another thread so Art is forced to keep up.
JimG33, I live in the rural, deep south and will plead ignorance of immigrants in general and those from East Europe and MENA in particular.
On the other hand most of my closest friends are orientals as is my Filipina wife. At least those from the Philippines that I know are like Americans in sensibility but harder working, more thrifty, and overtly religious.
I, too, appreciate artfldgr and neo’s tolerance. When I have time to read them, I find them interesting. When I don’t have time…well, that’s life.
Probably the reason they didn’t kill the guy they carjacked was the COEXIST bumper sticker. They saw it and thought “Dang. We have made a big mistake. If only we had seen that bumper sticker before we set off the bombs.” (Scroll down in this post for a picture of the car.)
I admit I laughed when I first saw that: blind naivete up against cold-blooded murder. But I *am* glad they didn’t kill him.
Don’t know if anyone’s mentioned this, but the older brother was named after Tamerlane, the devout Muslim ruler and conqueror, who called himself “The Sword of Islam.”
So we should look into their parents’ ideology, methinks. Maybe these apples didn’t roll too far from the family tree.
Cut to the chase. A “very religious Muslim” and a violent one (but I repeat myself) who declares after living in America for 10 years (including his teen and young adult years, when we are still adaptable) that he neither understands Americans nor has made even one friend…is an alienated, religious fanatic. His younger brother clearly emulated him.
In their religion’s view, America is the “great Satan” and jihad their duty. That combination of factors led to the ‘pressure cooker’ that was their mind-set finally exploding and they lashed out.
At this point, it appears there was no connection with any jihadist terrorist group. Just some more ‘very religious’ Muslims doing what their ‘religion’ tells them they are obligated to do.
In 2012, one in eight Muslim-American citizens polled believe parodies of Muhammad should be prosecuted criminally in the U.S., and say the offense is so serious, violators should face the death penalty.
Sooner or later, some who hold that view were going to take action. These terrorists however, went “off the reservation” as the last thing Muslims making inroads into our governmental infrastructure, who are ‘sympathetic to the Muslim Brotherhood’s aims wish is to ‘upset the applecart’.
We need to make our world safer, for the children. Here’s how:
http://unlockyourdoors.org/Home_Page.html
This is allegedly Tamarlan Tsarnaev’s YouTube account. Not surprising where his interests lay.
At some point, we Americans with our “religious tolerance” are going to have to come to grips with the fact that Islam is not just another “religion”. It is in fact way past time, and GWB is seriously responsible, with his “Islam is a religion of peace” and his shoe-off visits to mosques.
I thought Islam was just another religion until 9/11/2001. 2001! I then did my homework over months of reading serious sources. I was disabused.
We have waited eleven years for “moderate” Muslims to come forward, to no avail. Instead, we get CAIR.
They mean to kill us until they rule us.
Perhaps it is not too late. But it may be.
In yet another example of reality outstripping satire, the car that they hijacked had a “COEXIST” bumper sticker. I wonder if its owner is rethinking his choice of slogans just now.
At Tamarlan Tsarnaev’s YouTube account I noticed that as many as 10,000 people ‘liked’ what he liked. Not able to read the language, so I can’t ascertain exactly what they agreed with but his “Allah is the One” at the top of the page makes it unlikely that we would agree. And Tsarnaev was a relative unknown.
Pew Research Center demographers estimate that there were about 1.8 million Muslim adults living in the United States in 2011. 85% report themselves to be American citizens.
One in eight of 1.8 million means that 225,000 Muslim Americans think that criticism of Muhammad should result in the death penalty.
“Muslim Americans are a heavily immigrant population. Of those age 18 and older, more than six-in-ten (63%) were born abroad, and many are relative newcomers to the United States: Fully one-quarter of all U.S. Muslim adults (25%) have arrived in this country since 2000.”
No one wants to see Muslim Americans demonized but pretending that the potential for violence doesn’t exist and isn’t slowly building is in denial.
For a preview of the future, look to the NW European countries.
For a cheerier subject, read how Senator Cruz is upsetting the illiberal pols. Dana Milbank compares Cruz’s age (and more) to McCarthy. Well, enjoy.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-sen-ted-cruz-proving-a-talkative-headache-for-gop-leaders/2013/04/18/5197da40-a883-11e2-a8e2-5b98cb59187f_story.html?wprss=rss_opinions
If so, that would be beyond perfect irony. I seriously doubt though that anyone sporting one of those asinine bumper stickers would grasp just how pathetically useless is its sentiment.
A chilling aspect is that Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev appear to be American immigrant success stories yet they were still (apparently) radicalized.
Tamerlan came to the US older, so it’s to be expected his path was more unorthodox, but with his boxing, he seemed to have a solid foundation. He had some college. Dzjokhar’s story speaks of a riser, a textbook 1st generation success.
They have extended family established in the US and Canada. At least 1 sister seems to be successfully established in the NYC area.
I don’t know DHS’s indicators for a domestic terrorist threat, but I don’t imagine the Tsarnaevs would have indicated a threat.
Scary.
“suspect” now in custody. Yea! Now, let’s waterboard the bugger. (after we cut his legs off)
What is scary in this whole episode is how the ideology of Islam reached a young man’s alienation and anger and provided a means of personal fulfillment. Roger Simon talks about that.
http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2013/04/19/boston-its-about-islam-david-sirota/?singlepage=true
Reading the NY Times’s latest account of the timeline, it seems like they let the SUV driver go in order to alert authorities. They told him they were the Boston Marathon bombers, then let him go. They didn’t kill him, or tie or lock up the driver. They told him who they were, *then let him go*, whereupon he promptly reported them to the police. They must have known the driver would give the police a fix on their location.
sharpie, that seems to fit the older brother, but the younger brother appeared to be a well-adjusted, high-achieving, popular, happy kid with everything going for him.
Add: Why ID themselves and let the SUV driver go … Maybe they planned for a grand death by cop, bombs blowing and guns blazing, but the younger brother changed his mind about dying.
holmes: Thanks for the Unlocked Door link.
Their home page says in full:
“Now that reasonable gun control measures, such as Universal Background Checks and the Assault Weapons Ban, are assured to prevail, we can move onto the next step in creating a safer and more civil society- unlocking our doors. For too long our society has succumbed to the politics of fear and misinformation. Highly organized pro- Locked Door Advocacy and other Closed Society groups have held Congress in their well-funded pockets. We need to transcend these petty differences to unlock the doors to our homes… and unlock our minds from fear and bigotry and for social justice.”
Ah, yes. We are deemed guilty by THEM of fear, misinformation, well-fundedness, pocketing Congress, fear, bigotry, locked doors and other (unspecified) Closed-in-Mind-and-Body features, opposition to social justice. And pettiness!
I plead guilty to my opposition to ‘social justice’. As to well-fundedness, my new stepdaughter attends the (Jesuit) University of Santa Clara (santaclara.edu), which commits to ‘social justice’ on its homepage and charges about $50K to attend per year for leftist enlightenment.
To their other charges I plead “Innocent”, with the needed reminder that here we are “Innocent til proven guilty”.
If these are ‘petty’ matters they might stop their petty objections and move Right.
If one news report is to be believed, apparently the brothers did NOT rob the convenience store, by coincidence they were at the store when someone else robbed it. They did rob the driver of the luxury SUV with the Coexist sticker (beyond parody) by forcing him to withdraw money from ATMs. He supposedly escaped at a gas station, they didn’t release him. Well, there were a lot of distractions, to say the least.
Why Obama won’t be too visible:
Obama is a fascist. He is a PC thug dictator with messianic undertones. But Obama implicitly embraces the fascism of Islam, and this underlying sympathy creates difficulty for Obama. At a deep level, Obama agrees with the Islamic social system. As two brother fascisms, PC and Islam will be quite united until a certain time will demand war between the two.
In Obama are the seeds of a breakup between the two fascisms of our day, a breakup adumbrated by Operation Barbarossa when the German fascists went to war against the Russian fascists.
It’s an incredible situation and if the day comes when Obama must decide between his fascisms, it will mean the classical liberal world has failed and failed completely.
The COEXIST driver was used for disinformation.
He was told additional pressure cooker bombs had been rigged by them, here and there, ready to blow upon command. (Cell phone)
They also demonstrated that they had more explosives yet, with them, to include apparent suicide vests.
In sum, the entire AQ style sheet.
This was why all cell phone towers went dark, why the cops manned up, why everything went so slow, why all residents were confined to their homes, etc.
As a tactic, it worked.
Things came undone when the cops started shooting back.
Only in the movies do bullets miss every time.
Perp #2 appears to have taken a bullet while running the blockade — probably to his neck. This would explain him fading in and out — and subsequent arrest.
That is, they arrested him while he was blacked-out.
WHEW, glad that one’s over !
Neo, thanks for your perceptive opinions. Art Flieger’s also.
On another topic, over the years I have acquired a few books written by survivors of the Holocaust. They are not in very good condition as books, but the information ought to be preserved. I need to know if my eye for selection of nuggets from the gangue of a discard table is useful for history. My local library thinks anything over 5 years old does not deserve shelf space.
There is one puzzle that baffles me: how can the cops shoot some 200 rounds and miss so many times? The range was probably no more than 30 to 50 yards.
According to the Washington Post, suspect number 1 even got out of the SUV, was in the process of throwing an explosive at the cops, and still they missed their target so many times. The Post also reports that suspect 2 tried to run over the cops with the SUV. They swerved, but suspect 1 – out of the SUV – did not and was dragged by it. I repeat: how can trained cops and paramilitary shoot some 200 times and miss their targets in such close range? I think it’s pathetic and a failure. The two killers should have been shot dead within 5 seconds of their confrontation with the cops.
JohnC:
Here’s a hypothesis: they want them alive. The intel that is available to see if there is a larger conspiracy is too valuable to waste by putting a few rounds into the chest. If the police were shooting to wound or just intimidate then a lot of rounds would be “wasted”.
There was a joke going around at Ace of Spades about the carjacking:
Terrorist #1: Shoot him in the head!
Terrorist #2: But he has a COEXIST bumper sticker.
Terrorist #1: Oh. In that case, drop him off at the next corner.
“I repeat: how can trained cops and paramilitary shoot some 200 times and miss their targets in such close range?”
Same reason why elite SWAT teams raid drug houses, then find out after the fact that they got the wrong address and the guy firing back was just some chump of a regular citizen defending his home.
In essence, police training sucks because most of the money goes into the pockets of police union bosses.
The Left’s power isn’t concentrated just in DC.
Also, the Leftist alliance won’t fight Islam because they are allies of Islam. Conveniently, Islam also hates the US primarily because of Leftist propaganda concerning sex.
“The intel that is available to see if there is a larger conspiracy is too valuable to waste by putting a few rounds into the chest.”
Competent counter-intel specialists may have given that order out and it may even have been carried out. Police ROE training is based upon guns=lethal force.
JohnC, above at 9:12 AM, “…how can the cops shoot some 200 rounds and miss so many times? The range was probably no more than 30 to 50 yards.”
I certainly do not claim to be an expert gunman but I do know that there is a major difference between putting holes in a paper target on a range and accuracy in a real life gunfight with maximum adrenaline load in your bloodstream, in the dark, shooting at targets that are dodging and, most importantly, shooting back at you.
I will also agree with Ymarsakar, above at 11:32 AM, that many police departments simply do not make weapons training a priority. It costs money for the serious training required to shoot well under stress.
About those 200 rounds—was that specifically the amount the police fired, or was it the combination of police and suspects? I thought the latter, but I can’t seem to find any clarification on it in a quick search right now.
On the ironic bumper sticker issue, Mark Steyn over at NRO adressed it with his usual razor edged wit:
“They seem to have had a droll wit when it comes to symbolism: Last year, the younger brother took his oath of citizenship and became an American on September 11. And, in their final hours of freedom, they added a cruel bit of mockery to their crimes by carjacking a getaway vehicle with a “Co-exist” bumper sticker. Oh, you must have seen them: I bet David Sirota has one. The “C” is the Islamic crescent, the “O” is the hippy peace sign; the “X” is the Star of David, the “T” is the Christian cross; I think there’s some LGBT, Taoist, and Wiccan stuff in there, too. They’re not mandatory on vehicles in Massachusetts; it just seems that way.”
“The ‘Co-exist Bombers”
They may have been drugged up. The little brother was found with “serious” gunshot wounds presumably sustained in the confrontation, yet he was able to drive out and escape on foot.
Big brother apparently was shot up yet tried to rush the cops or somesuch move.
Adrenaline can do a lot, but I don’t know if it can compensate for that much pain.
How could they afford to own a Benz?
( It was in the shop, so they hijacked a fresh one with COEXIST on its rear.)
Were they in the opiate trade?
That does count as jihad, BTW.
Did the college kids not turn him in because perp #2 was their connection?
They do admit he was quite the party boy — pot head.
“As two brother fascisms, PC and Islam will be quite united until a certain time will demand war between the two.”
That “certain time” will come when the Left in the US can get rid of all the Sarah Palins and other “bible and gun” clingers. Washing them away like various abortion doctors did with the bio waste.
The additional bombs are now openly admitted to by officialdom — because they’ve cleared the streets.
Now inquiring minds want to know how in heck this duo could possibly afford their automobile habit.
I’d say they were in the drugs to college game.
In which case, their top notch wrestling and boxing skills were a perfect fit.
As their ‘connection’ perp #2 was not rapidly fingered by his (pretty wide) customer base. (?)
Such a double life would go miles to explaining why they were so cool after the atrocity. It’s the kind of cool that drug mules and retailers develop.
And having gotten away with countless felonies to date, it’s no wonder that they thought they were still in the clear.
If it were up to Buraq, Nappy and Holder; they’d still be operating.