The Steubenville rape
The young men in the Steubenville rape case are guilty and responsible for their actions, and need to pay the penalty.
However—and I say this without any weakening of my contention that the above sentence is true—the entire incident highlights the fact that large segments of adult society have become profoundly remiss about teaching and supervising and monitoring young people. Why were these high school kids in an environment where this could happen so easily? Where were there parents? How did they get the liquor? We don’t know the exact answers, but I think we do know the answers in the general sense: the kids were either out of their parents’ control, or their parents didn’t care what they did.
The impulse to use sex as a game and group sport is nothing new. It was well-known when I was in school, and that was a long time ago. And the dangers to a woman (yes, especially a woman) who gets drunk in that environment were well-known back then, too. Very well-known.
Since I’ve been blogging for such a long time now, I find that it’s not unusual that I’ve already written something that’s apropos to a current situation. So I’ll just quote this post of mine from 2007:
The older rape laws were embedded in a societal structure that regulated women’s freedom in a way hard to fathom today. And yet many of these mores were still in place in my own youth, and I’m not that old. No, an unmarried woman wasn’t required to have a chaperone for any encounter with a man who wasn’t a close relative, as in an earlier century. But boys were only allowed on the ground floor of a girls’ dormitory and were confined to the public areas (at least three of the four feet owned by a couple needed to be on the floor, please, as they necked—archaic word, that—on the couches).
We girls knew the rules, and they weren’t just empty meaningless exercises. I recall being on the terrace of a fraternity house in my college days, at a party, and hearing some raised voices upstairs, one of a woman, quite drunk. A female head with long blond hair (a fellow student from my dorm whom I knew, although not very well) poked out from one of the windows on the upper floor (where we were not allowed!). She yelled some slurred words to raucous laughter. Just as quickly, her head was withdrawn, but she didn’t come down, and all of us girls knew what was going on.
Or rather, we knew and didn’t know, all at the same time. The details could be imagined, and they weren’t good. Whether the sex she was having was group or individual, technically consensual or non, we downstairs knew that she’d put herself in a highly vulnerable position.
Did we think she was to blame? At least partly—not for whatever rape might be occurring (even then I would have put that responsibility squarely at the proverbial feet of the guys involved) but for sheer stupidity and reckless behavior. Everyone knew the code, even though we found the whole situation distasteful and sad, and wished it were otherwise…
I’m all for female freedom. But the checks and balances of the society in which I was raised, restrictive and limiting though they undoubtedly were, kept the behavior of most of us more reasonable. In other words, we learned the art of self-protection and even something known as good judgment, all in all not bad things to learn in this imperfect world.
Because the law isn’t able to prevent all bad things from happening. It can only try to punish the perpetrator after the fact, and that doesn’t mend a broken life or repair a deep trauma.
Now a new wrinkle has been added since I wrote that post: the ubiquity of cell phone cameras and social media have combined with the mainstreaming of pornography to further desensitize kids to what they’re doing. These guys were playing at making a porno flick of sorts, and thought it was perfectly okay to do so with a very drunk 16-year-old and themselves as the subjects.
The best piece of advice I got was that “being right and raped is a bad combination”.
From the linked article;
“A culture of arrogance created a group mindset of debauchery and disrespect, of misplaced manhood and lost morality.”
A culture of arrogance? How about a culture that is in the process of completely rejecting traditional western cultural mores based upon judeo/christian premises and replacing it with secular relativism?
This type of behavior is now common on college campuses across the nation. It is only the girl’s age that is different.
They are high school students. What are high school students doing having a party with drinking? Where are the parents?
Geoffrey Britain –
Yes.
“Ray Says:
March 18th, 2013 at 4:03 pm
They are high school students. What are high school students doing having a party with drinking? Where are the parents?”
My thoughts exactly! Who are the adults that procured the alcohol, provided no supervision; enabled this crime to be committed? They shoud be prosecuted to the fullest extent.
On another topic, the same should be done to people whe provide firearms to underage and criminials, gang members and such. Find them and prosecute them. Make examples, have the cost of their crime exceed the value they recieve. Make sure that their crime does not pay.
Using sex as a tool to control groups have been tested in the past by cults and other groups. They are quite effective, in a fashion.
The loosening of morality was not intended to strengthen America, but to weaken it. Initially to make it easier for the Soviets to control the world, but after the Soviets combusted, the Left had to find a different goal. When it comes to squeezing power from a democracy, votes are the superficial form of that power, but not the true original source. That would rest in the will of the people. There’s not much “will” when it comes to people being controlled by their sexual appetites, their appetite for luxury, power, money, greed, and material goods. When society is no longer allowed to control such impulses, because the Left broke society, then who gets to control such instincts? Those that can offer the gluttons and the hedonites what they desire… in return for votes, the superficial form of the power the Left has sought. Whether one calls it welfare, sexual freedom, equal employment or wages, does not really matter in the end. All are chains of one sort or another, to make a slave population do the bidding of the few at the top, those born to rule.
Perhaps practicing putting condoms on bananas desensitizes today’s young to the fact that sex involves human beings worthy of respect.
“What are high school students doing having a party with drinking? Where are the parents?”
Those are certainly valid and relevant questions. There are however deeper social issues.
In prior generations, high school students managed to have drinking parties and sex certainly happened…but…it was mostly in private and any actual evidence would have only been shared with at most, a close circle of friends.
One of the rapists didn’t just brag about it but broadcast incriminating, undeniable evidence of the rape with the entire world, actually believing, no doubt with cause, that there would be little to no repercussions.
One of the lawyers attempted to argue that since an incapacitated 13 yr old girl didn’t say no, it was implicit consent.
Those are the larger social issues.
I wanted to thank you for this wonderful read!
! I definitely loved every little bit of it.
I have got you saved as a favorite to look at new stuff you post…
Now THERE’S a spambot with an apropos name.
To paraphrase a Richard Pryor routine:
“Your honor, we forgot that rape was illegal.”
“Well, you’ll remember next time, kids.”
Mrs Whatsit: maybe I should leave that one up there.
If you don’t, my comment won’t make any sense!
In the court where I work, we’ve had a number of cases with rape victims whose drunkenness made them vulnerable. As if being raped weren’t bad enough, an intoxicated victim makes a conviction harder to get because the victims can’t remember the attack clearly or maybe can’t remember it at all, can’t necessarily identify her attacker and is vulnerable 16 ways from Sunday on cross-examination. I am no fan of blaming the victim by any means, but we do women no favors by divorcing them from all sense of responsibility for protecting themselves. Learned helplessness of this kind hardly empowers women in any sphere of life.
Waiting for artfldgr to weigh in . . . 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 . . .
Geoffrey Britain: 16-year-old girl, not 13-year-old.
Once again Neo seems to be prescient. I literally just hung up the phone after having a conversation about this very subject.
In no way do I condone what these boys did — but it bothered me a great deal that none of the media reports (which was considerable in number) , and even the judge for that matter, said nothing about the responsibility of the girl(s) and even her parents (or any girl’s parents), for putting herself in the position to be vulnerable to what happened to her.
From what I gathered, there was no evidence that she had been drugged and this girl was seen drinking to excess (as were most of the kids per accounts) at the party. The drinking happens to be illegal to start with, and while parents obviously cannot control what their kids are doing at all times, they should be responsible for teaching their children ethics and morals, responsibility and consequences for misbehavior.
Parents giving “the birds and the bees talk” to their kids is as old as the hills and while there may be differing points of emphasis to boys vs. girls (i.e. promiscuity vs. raging hormones, unwanted pregnancis, etc.), is there not an implicit duty to teach children right from wrong? And in a day and age in which the age of sexual activity has become alarming low along with many reports of kids redefining what actually is considered as “having sex” (i.e. oral sex vs. intercourse and so forth) this would seem more important than ever.
In her victim impact statement, the mother spoke as if her daughter was an innocent snatched off the street and raped. She stated that “this will not define my daughter.”
The fact that she was raped absolutely should not, but doesn’t the fact that she acted with reckless behavior and violated the law (by drinking) is something she should have to deal with and learn from as should other young men and women.
If the parents aren’t addressing this issue, I don’t know why the court does not. I’m not saying the girl’s behavior should affect the adjudication or penalty, but commentary upon the overall situation which precipitated the crime might be instructive in a very significant sense.
There is a another difference today: a portion of the charges addressed the videotaping of the rape and the distribution thereof via social media. 1) These kids have grown up with cell phones with cameras and taking pictures documenting their every activity is commonplace. 2) the advent of social media, and the overwhelming level of participation is pretty much de rigueur in kids’ worlds today. It frequently amazes me how much tune my own contemporaries (let’s define this as somewhat past middle age) spend on Facebook.com or MySpace.com or Twitter to report hour by hour activity and thoughts. Kids today are weaned on this stuff and are connected online to such sites most of their waking hours. In no way do I view what the boys did as appropriate and do think it was immoral, to say the least, but in the context of their everyday lives and constant social interaction, taking pictures and uploading them to share online is not extraordinary. Kids’ pages on Facebook often contain literally thousands of photographs. They document photographically everything they do with smartphones which are a basic means of communicationbecome and an integral part of their lives. Does this not create additional — and very significant additional considerations for today’s parents and children to discuss and deal with?
What are the odds the rapists did not have a father present at home actively teaching them what is and is not responsible behavior?
csimon: yes, the photography + social media aspects are what I was referring to in the last paragraph of my post.
We don’t have the judge’s entire ruling, so we don’t know what was commented on and what wasn’t. As far as I know, the girl’s drunkenness was only a legal issue in terms of consent vs. non-consent (in other words, how drunk was she?).
I agree completely with Mrs Whatsit: “we do women no favors by divorcing them from all sense of responsibility for protecting themselves”.
In fact, I would state even more strongly and advise any woman to hold herself completely responsible for protecting herself. As soon as she abdicates that responsibility, she puts herself in danger.
My position in no way relieves a man of one iota of responsibility for his behavior.
}}} One of the lawyers attempted to argue that since an incapacitated 13 yr old girl didn’t say no, it was implicit consent.
Hey, if liberals will defend a film director who had anal sex with a 13yo girl who DID say no (“It’s not ‘rape-rape'” after all! I mean, really!) then how can you believe it’s possible to even RAPE a woman…?
Clearly, you’re just not in touch with the times.
:-S
I for one, will happily remain out of touch with the sentiments that lead to that attitude, thanks.
csimon,
Yes parents need to talk more with their kids. I think it needs to be an ongoing thing. I can remember my mom and dad mentioning people they admired and saying why or pointing out bad decisions others made–not about sex but about everything. They were never holier than thou. They simply gave their reasons. These kinds of talks or comments allowed me to think about all sorts of things from spending to choosing furniture and come to my own conclusions.
I read an article by Camille Paglia where she said that she could never go into the Pyramids at night, in the way that her brother could. It was a recognition that there are places that are dangerous for women. I believe that we have spent way too much time trying to ignore this and to convince young women that they can go anywhere, in any condition and be safe. It’s just not true.
It’s unfortunate for all the young people involved.
were people shocked like I was that these perpetrators managed to conger up some crocodile tears when their own skins were on the line & (the amazing fact) THAT they were being “comforted”by various individuals in the courtroom ! WTF WAS that all about
Why wasn t some reporter there to ask if these rapista had shed any tears for the victim???
& lastly the responsible adults are despicable & need to be charged too & grow up themselves, it seems like the “culture” there is “Parents who want to be buddies to their jock kids”
neo,
My mistake. I thought I saw that reported somewhere but my memory isn’t always what it once was…
MollyNH,
Yes, convicted rapists being comforted in court is highly indicative of the moral bankruptcy of many people.
We have descended a long way. My teen years were from 1943 to 1953. I may have felt somewhat smothered by adult attention in those years, but looking back, I have nothing but gratitude for all that adult supervision. Parents, coaches, teachers, scout leaders, and other adults in our community spent a lot of their time supervising, mentoring, and monitoring me and my friend’s activities. There was never any doubt what fate awaited me if I acted in a way that was out of line. Yeah, it was a strait-laced, rather innocent era, but I thank God it was that way. There are so many pitfalls awaiting young people who aren’t mentored, supervised, and monitored. Unfortunately, the parents who are “cool” and let their children run wild make it much more difficult for the parents that try to keep some kind of leash on their children’s behavior. I wouldn’t want to be a parent today.
What is it with social media? I feel like my privacy is being invaded just being on the internet. Why don’t these kids’ parents tell them that stupid/criminal behavior on the internet is like a tattoo – very hard to get rid of? It is to weep.
Sadly Geoff, yeah morally bankrupt
there was even a spectator rubbing the back & consoling what appeared to be the perpetrators mother ???
MollyNH: why not comfort the perpetrator’s mother?
I certainly have compassion for the families of perpetrators as well as victims. Sometimes they have been bad parents, sometimes they have done all the right things and still their kids go astray. But in any event, if they love their children, they are suffering–from sorrow, guilt, remorse, shame, you name it. Do they not deserve some compassion too?
Parents do not seem to care about what thier children do anymore. I have made many traffic stops at 4:00AM, and found the car to be driven by a 16 year old and occupied by his 15 and 16 year old buddies as passengers. I have the driver dead to rights under Wisconsin’s graduated driver’s license, as he is driving after midnight, and having passengers in the car, and I have the others for curfew. I transfer the passengers to my Tahoe, and have the driver follow me to the Sheriff’s Office. When I call the parents to come and get thier kids, the responses are often, “can’t you just let them go”, or, “why are you picking on them”. Nothing about any concern as to why I was able to find them out and about at 0400.
Even if I have the youngsters on alcohol charges, which is not uncommon, the parents don’t seem to think if it as any big thing. So the apparent fall of our civilisation is not coming as any great surprise to me.
Just because you *can* doesn’t mean you *should*. Does anyone remember the movie “Philadelphia Story”? Katherine Hepburn had too much to drink and wonders why Jimmy Stewart did not take advantage of the situation. “Because there are rules about that” he tells her – somewhere in the 1940’s.
Apparently, not any more.
“”How about a culture that is in the process of completely rejecting traditional western cultural mores””
GB
It’s the most curious thing, how people will admit the country is heading in the wrong direction, yet vote for or support the people and institutions who are leading the charge down that wrong path.
We also shouldn’t forget that if Obama had a son he would look like Trayvon Martin. What a pair of role models we have in the WH. Coolness é¼ber alles.
My kids graduated HS in 1996. My wife and I were athletic Boosters, supported the teams, and were “team parents” in one or another informal way. Our kids played soccer, tennis, basketball, football.
We knew the kids and we knew the parents.
This stuff didn’t happen and wouldn’t have happened and if my son and/or any of his teammates had found this happening someplace, it would have been a bad night for the perps.
Can’t imagine culture has changed this much in only seventeen years.
Has to be an anomaly, a subculture of weird parents or something.
I hope.
Just a remake of the coochie snorcher that could frm vagina monologues
And greer said ruttung is liberating
And without these sacrificial lambs to feminist leaders where would they be??? Bad advice leads to misety thatvu pretend to fix while making more misery to more power
I am a rapidly aging Boomer who grew up in the ’50’s and my teen and military years were in the ’60’s.
There seems to be a great difference in present times and those times in terms of honor and respect.
Had I been convicted of this crime in my pre-20’s years, I would not have feared the police or the court or time in jail as much as I would have feared what my father would do to me.
It would have been a terrible stain on his honor and would have been perhaps the ultimate in disrespect for him as a parent.
Doesn’t seem to be the case nowadays. Also, in those olden times, we were taught to respect women. Oh yeah, in grade school we hated “stinky girls,” but after that things changed. Another thing that is now gone.
Now if I could just get those damn kids off my lawn!
The problem isn’t just that parents don’t care. It’s that they’re often the enablers.
Many believe that by supplying alcohol for their own teens and classmates and allowing them to have a party in their home, that the kids won’t be at risk of driving while impaired. Whether it is legal or right isn’t an issue to them.
Their attitude is that teens will find ways to get drunk no matter what you do, so it’s best to give in, and to do what you can to shield them from the possible consequences. I think sometimes it’s just an excuse for those who would rather be their child’s best friend or buddy, instead of trying to be a parent.
Neo, admitting I do not know all the circumstances of the “comforting” going on in the courtroom, I imagined the victims mother’s feelings. My precious baby daughter used by these vultures. As the victim’s mother I would see their parents as enablers, no matter how tangential the parents of the perpetrators bear a significant part of the responsibility, that mother may have younger sons will she abrogate her duty with them too.
At the risk of sounding like a hard-nosed butthead expecting parents to, you know, like, do something, herewith what we did when our kids were in HS.
The team parents had a party for the team, the cheerleaders, and anybody else who wanted to come. It was at a parent’s house, with the boosters providing the pizza and pop and chaperones. Some of us, ahem, wandered around outside on what was known as the “Budweiser patrol”, which, in my experience, netted nothing alcoholic.
The coaches strongly advised the team to show up. Eventually, the guy with the game film arrived and the girls were sitting by themselves–sober and ungroped–until that was over.
My wife and I still remark that one party we got to late was kind of odd. It was so quiet that we wondered if we were at the wrong house.
Afterwards, cleaning up, we found half-empty pop can on the lawn.
It can be done, if the adults care.
If I park my car in a notorious neighborhood and leave it unlocked with the windows rolled down and the keys in the ignition, how much of the responsibility is mine when it gets stolen?
Oh, no, no, nothing excuses the car thieves – but all of us would certainly blame the victim to one degree or another in that scenario.
MollyNH: what difference does it make how the victim’s mother feels, in terms of how other human beings ought to act towards the perpetrators’ families, who are suffering too? Are her feelings the only ones to be respected (and do we even know exactly how she feels)?
And what difference does it make if the perps’ parents bear some portion of responsibility—a responsibility which, by the way, if they share, the victim’s mother also most definitely shares, because the girl should not have been there getting stinking drunk at the age of 16—in terms of giving them some human and compassionate comfort? Have they, as parents of wrongdoing teenagers, forfeited all claim to be the recipients of human compassion?
neo,
You can have compassion for people who are hurting, especially if they are hurting for their children who have been damaged in one way or another.
That does not mean there is as much as one percent less blame to go to the parents. Whatever blame there may be, it is not reduced by the compassion toward them.
It’s one of those things where, looking at, say, an emergency room, where you say, “What the hell were they thinking, if anything? Morons.”
The local police in the village in India where the Swiss couple camped and were attacked, and the woman gang-raped, said the attack was the victims’ fault because they never should’ve camped where they did.
Ohio. Chicago isn’t one of the power backbones of Leftist corruption and power for nothing. In so far as it knows no bounds, everyone is corrupted. As soon as they step within 50 miles, it seems. Doesn’t matter who you are.
More victims and wreckage as a result of the Left’s evil influence. How far will people allow it to stand?
Until the boots of tyranny stomps on their child’s head and crushes it. Until then, we wait. Until people suffer enough, until they are forced to comprehend the nature of the evil they must fight, they will do nothing to stop the Left’s power, they will have no effect in breaking the Left’s back.
It is the very unwise decision of many people to blame the Left’s evil on “personal responsibility” that they have failed for so many decades.
There is no “personal responsibility” for slaves and tools owned by the Left. It is not the gun and knife I strike to destroy, but the hand, body, and brain of the attacker. For it is the attacker from which the evil originates and destroying the gun will have no effect. Only by crushing the body, skull, and limbs will any permanent security and justice be achieved.
The “personal responsibility” of tools and slaves do not exist, for it is not their will that evil is done, but the Left’s.