Obama continues in his relentless attempt to follow in Nixon’s footsteps
Executive privilege claimed for the Fast and Furious documents.
The New Neo
A blog about political change, among other things
Executive privilege claimed for the Fast and Furious documents.
Except that Watergate didn’t have a body count.
We must hammer that meme relentlessly.
Brilliant comment by “cfbleachers” at PJM: Link
rickl:
You’re right about that PJM comment. I’m just afraid that now we’re all going to find out the answer to the commenter’s question.
As I understand the concept of executive privilege, it refers to matters of national security and is limited to communications between the president and his advisers, cabinet members, etc. All along Holder and BHO have denied any knowledge of F&F prior to when it became a matter of public knowledge that this bloody boondoggle existed. If this is true, neither has anything to hide.
But with this executive privilege order BHO is putting himself front and center in this scandal and I have to wonder why? Now the MSM has to at least acknowledge the scandal exists. And, its certainly atypical behavior on the part of BHO. Normally he would throw Holder under the bus and fly away on AF1 for a round of campaigning. From my shallow POV Team Obama has handed Romney a valuable gift. I hope Mitt exploits it thoroughly and often.
The time, attention, and energy devoted to Holder, Executive Privilege, and Fast & Furious is time diverted away from a discussion of and not focused on Obama’s totally failed policies, the horrendous economy, massive unemployment, almost 50 million on food stamps, illegal aliens, millions of foreclosures with potentially millions more to come and a flat-lined housing market, a 35% decrease in family’s net household assets since 2008, a possible double or even triple dip recession, out of control, the coming bankruptcy of the Entitlement system, thanks to Obama, our virtually un-payable debt, a nuclear Iran, etc.
WD,
I have to strongly disagree. Your list is a good and just list, but F&F can not be allowed to slink away into the shadows. Blood has dampened the earth, this is not a mere bureaucratic fiasco. US agents and hundred of Mexicans have been murdered. Those who conceived of and implemented this murderous affair must suffer the consequences of their actions. Would you consider F&F a distraction if it involved illegal transfers of firearms to domestic, inner city drug gangs; and the subsequent murder of hundreds of your fellow citizens?
Remember that the apparent purpose of F&F was to create a groundswell of revulsion against “lax” American gun laws, which would have led to attempts to further restrict our 2nd Amendment rights. This operation may have killed people in Mexico, but they were just collateral damage. The real target was the American people.
Parker’s right. There’s still enough time to “focus” on Obama’s crap but there’s a duty to substance and procedure here. Further, WD’s juicy list is not bad news to the 40% who need government to take care of them.
Plus, haven’t you found it true that it is the busy man who is usually more efficient and trustworthy to do a task?
WD:
I have to take issue with that part. There was a “housing bubble”, remember? The truth is that housing valuations are coming back to some semblance of sanity after soaring off into the stratosphere for years. I remember that not so long ago there was a lot of liberal handwringing about the lack of “affordable” housing.
The suburban tract house I own was built in 1956. I don’t know what the original sale price was, but my dad bought it for $24,000 in 1969. At the time of his death in 2002, it was appraised at nearly $300,000. It didn’t become any bigger or more luxurious during that time.
Big mistake if he don’t win next election.
He can only claim that in terms of things he was a part of, he cant claim it in extension to someone else.
that is, if he never saw the papers, and didn’t know about the whole thing, then doing this is an admission that was false.
1948
Truman
Hiss-Chambers
1954
Eisenhower
Army—McCarthy hearings
Eisenhower used the claim of executive privilege to forbid the “provision of any data about internal conversations, meetings, or written communication among staffers, with no exception to topics or people.”
This was done to refuse the McCarthy Committee subpoenas. Eisenhower would invoke the claim 44 times between 1955 and 1960
Nixon basically lost the argument Eisenhower won.
Undoing that by creating precedents that such material was not protected by such
All this then drums up some other things in that the reaction or action taken causes people to go out and read things that perhaps were better not read (in terms of Obama and re-election or compelling him to answer questions, or so forth)
People are latching on to the Nixon thing because of the courts comments as to article three and the greater interest of the public in terms of legal prosecutions.
but the ghost that is awakened is the other thing i put up that preceded Nixon and Eisenhower..
And that’s Alger Hiss who was a spy, and Whittaker chambers who changed sides.
Whittaker Chambers: was an American writer and editor. After being a Communist Party USA member and Soviet spy, he later renounced communism and became an outspoken opponent later testifying in the perjury and espionage trial of Alger Hiss.
and
Alger Hiss was an American lawyer, government official, author, and lecturer. He was involved in the establishment of the United Nations both as a U.S. State Department and U.N. official. Hiss was accused of being a Soviet spy in 1948 and convicted of perjury in connection with this charge in 1950.
Hyperfocus on Nixon, and you might miss the open association to soviet goals and the creation of the UN and Alabama suddenly taking a stand against “Agenda 21”.
1987
Gro Harlem Brundtland first Vice-President of the Socialist International
‘Our Common Future’
The Brundtland Commission Report
Oh so thats why scapegoat classes cant find work, and that the affirmative action is so much that banks and things wont even look their way… and the delta smelt, and cant drill for oil… limits to growth…
if you do a search “Agenda 21” “fast furious” together on Google, one would expect not many links… very different terms… About 554,000 results
interesting how history works.. no?
GREAT question.
and there are not many hypothesis that could carry enough weight to entertain (especially given how many people been run over by that bus).
There is no way to know until later, if we ever know. So to the tin hatters out there, its just musing. just cause an idea fits or works, don’t mean that’s the right answer by any means.
let me give an extreme hypothetical, a caricature which may illustrate the point clearly before stated.
we are back in the days just before Deep Throat (the contact not the movie, it was out already), and the break in, and the tapes.
at that point, the players have no idea what is about to happen to them. Woodward and Bernstein didn’t know they would be contacted, the contact probably didn’t know they would call, and all around.
the reason what was on the Nixon tapes is what was on the Nixon tapes was they decided that they were safe from examination and future (meaningful) punishment.
minutes before the subject of inquiry was taken up, the subject could have been starting a nuclear war or whether Menachem Begin liked mayonnaise… and 2 minutes after that subject, they could have discussed even worse transgressions.
It was my memory of then compared to now, and how people have meetings that makes the hypothesis.
Meetings back then tended to have their subjects compartmentalized. A list was made, and all discussions about that item would occur within that slot. when the discussion was over, they would “Move on to the next item”.
So when you listen to the Nixon tapes, the subject is compartmentalized. before the time, and after the time, the discussion could have been anything from ham sandwiches to assassination plots.
but today, meetings are not like that to that degree. what often happens is that we don’t compartmentalize our conversations. you get a memo as to the subject, but then there is a question as to some other thing..
or the discussion wanders through many subjects so that there is no compartmentalization. evident in memos may be references to other things. text messages on a subject may have people on the mailing list that should be on a separate mailing list and so kept apart.
savvy Harvard edumacated business people know not to BCC but to send separately. sending separately allows one to provide documents requested and yet withhold that which is not part of it. while using BCC, one could not redact that the discussion was being at least shared with another party.
If this is what has happened, then if holder gives up stuff, he has no way not to give up too much stuff. if those things become a question, someones blackberry and a log of the times of messages might come under scrutiny, and so on. out of how many documents can there be one or two links which then open the line up for inspection. what if stuff is outright intermingled/commingled?
if this is the case, then claiming EP is as natural as Nixon claiming it…
And if even worse stuff like notes on colluding with Putin through Medvedev are part of it? or Soros? or the Brotherhood? or the sandwich guy down the lane…
Then claiming it might actually be more like Truman, Whittaker, and Hiss…
“the subject could have been starting a nuclear war or whether Menachem Begin liked mayonnaise… ”
That makes me laugh! Thanks.
“what if stuff is outright intermingled/commingled?”
This is what we need to know. How far up the chain does F&F climb? MB’s choice of condiments is one thing, murder is a horse of a different color.
If, however, the Republicans don’t have the cajones to fight, and they back down in the face of Obama and the media’s onslaught, then it will be a waste of time and worse: defeat. I’m encouraged, however, that this is not the case and that Issa is so thoroughly disgusted and there is enough blog and new media support that there will be a fight for Holder’s resignation.
I can assure you that Chuck Grassley is ready to take this to the limit. CG has many faults, as do all politicians, but he is truly outraged by F&F and I believe Issa feels the same way. F&F crossed the line. They will pursue this scandal to the end.
Parker:
Yes, I do get the impression that a line has been crossed.
As one of the dive bomber pilots said in the movie Midway, “Ram it home, boys!”
If Obama survives this, he will be unstoppable, and we will live to see death camps in the United States of America.
rickl,
I do not allow death camps in my neighborhood. 🙂 I do not allow my children or grandchildren (number 3 is due July 17) to live in a society that sanctions death camps. It ain’t gonna happen here. It only takes 3-5% to successfully resist and I suspect we can count on 8-10% should push come to shove. Be of good cheer. This is America and although we have many deep, entrenched problems; we remain the home of the free. The 40+ % that live on the dole can not overcome the 5% who wish to live free.
Just the facts, ma’am.
Just us facts.
Justice facts and kiss our
Justice cracks.
Jus you never mind.
Ur out of ur juridiction.
Juris curious.
Janis Slavis.
Jake, jake are you home?
Nope.
Speaking of Jake….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cWnubJ9CEw
Thankfully, 50+% of the USA is not LA or the other large metro areas. In flyover country there is no ‘China Town’. In flyover country you are on your own except for family, friends, and the neighbors you rely upon each and everyday; and there are no corrupt forces beyond your ability to overcome.
Obambus and Holder just want to buy time to destroy evidence. Not clumsily, like Nixon’s secretary, but wholesale, root and branch.
I’ve been predicting that Obama would do the full Nixon since 2008: “I am not a crook!” We may yet see it.
>>> a 35% decrease in family’s net household assets since 2008
Ummm… how much of that 35% decrease is based on the decrease in home value, a home value that was already preposterously overinflated by a bubble economy that made the house “worth” vastly more than it had any business being “worth”.
I recall my (libtard) aunt and uncle whining about how the property taxes on two separate 1-acre plots of undeveloped land they owned were eating them alive. I’m sure the face value of their assets have substantially decreased in the last 5 years, but I doubt if they’ve actually “lost” anything they really had, except for the opportunity to sell those two plots for ridiculously over-inflated values to some moron dumb enough to buy at the peak of a bubble market.
>>> Not clumsily, like Nixon’s secretary, but wholesale, root and branch.
I hear Sandy Berger wears the pants in that department among Democrats…
WHAT HAPPENS NEXT is the game
its played by first determining at any point WHAT CAN HAPPEN… then picking options..
So if they were loose in their communications, and not compartmentalized, there will be no way to redact the other information without creating huge suspicion in the information that remains for the legal examination.
that is, if they talk about X, then mention Y, go to H, then back to X and then mention R in context to Y… and the court is only interested in X… the two blank spots in every other sentence would beg the question.
ie. its a double trap…
if he takes them out, then the actual case looks even worse than worse.
if he leaves them in, then the actual case expands by the presence of other information in discovery
but then.. what happens next..
war is heating up just as i said it would half a decade ago… but given that people cant project to November let alone 7 years ahead like a business analysis man with 30 years experience projecting to organize…
and so, what you get is an endless argument against whats coming, and it just goes on and on, and over time, the people drop off like hux, rather than adjust and move on. Ego more important than being right, they leave rather than be wrong.
but there are some people that care more about the right answer than how having one or not makes them feel. (especially if being right makes up for other deficiencies and negates them)
so thats my meaningless authority on this along with other things… thats for those that care for things other than the direct point.
but ultimately, obama has been feathering a nest he thinks or thought that he would live in. what if he was feathering it for himself, but the idea is for someone else to sit in it at the time of incident?
what if the north Koreans flood into Seoul again? Egypt attacks Israel with syria and jordan?
would you be thinking obama as the lesser of two evils over Biden?
think for a moment.. Obama has feathered a nest that created new powers and so on, and is using the lag of due process to function even if the power is negated later.
having a temporary magic wand is very useful, even if it only lasts a week…
but the czars, the payoffs, and the other things… all converge to make an image…
if obama is impeached that means that Biden takes over. do you feal confident that Biden wont act to negate a election and use the powers created to be the savior when a big event breaks out?
If your an enemy, you may have rejoiced over obamas pick and the letting him build this olympus, columns and all…
what if FF wasn’t his idea? ie. what if a little birdie way long ago tweeted to his ear that if you do this, then you can make this happen. then that birdie, caused the happening to fail… not too hard is it?
not like ted Kennedy didn’t do the same when he asked the KGB for advice… though with obama i can see him bowing and asking advice and instead getting the active measure
makes the medvedev thing make more sense
but now..
who will lead if the events are sprung before election and obama is not in office?
if you look at it all…
the whole of it has destroyed the presidency even if there is a saving grace
anyone remember that i said this is goes all bsack to the sex communes and such of moses harmon?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMUlWbO1rhk#!
Will the first female president be La Chiccolina? (Anna Ilona Staller)
above i point out the alger hiss and UN thing…
UN Development Program Echoes Obama
http://cnsnews.com/blog/paul-wilson/un-official-western-nations-dont-need-more-cars-more-tv-whatever
If Clark’s remarks are indicative of the goals of the conference, attempts to stress “sustainable development” in developing countries, at the expense of developed countries, will be put into motion.
ie. agenda 21..
that means that alger hiss made the UN and now the UN through agenda 21 and another socialist in office embracing it, we move to world communism…
no?
Obama is a chigger. Take a look.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=chigger'&qpvt=chigger%27&FORM=IGRE
You see that. It’s an ugly verminous parasite. They prefer the nice warm moist places like around your ankles just where the shoe lip and sock provides warmth and humidity. Around your belt line. Straps of your backpack. Places where your hard labor results in sweat and heat. That’s the places they like to aggravate.
Today’s chiggers are evolving. They come in many colors so that you can’t discern a chigger just by his color. The most salient characteristic of today’s chigger is that they claim persecution. Somehow, the host from which they suck blood doesn’t like them and doesn’t want them there. The chigger thinks that is not just. He’ll fight you.
All chiggers are liars. They’re not going to advertise they are chiggers. No. They are the good bacteria, the good bug, the lady bug that eats the bad bugs. Don’t ever get into an argument with a chigger. He’ll out yell and out sell you every time. No justice, no peace, he’ll scream. Since it is now against the law to accuse a chigger of being a chigger, well, it’s jsut best to stay out of areas where they are concentrated.
Chiggers are very social parasites. You’ll never get just one chigger. They multiply very quickly. When one chigger gets on you, he calls all his fellow chiggers. Hey, the bloods over here. He likes to take your hard earned blood and give it to his friends. If he does this often enough, they will elect him leader.
Again, chiggers cannot be identified by their color but by their behavior. A used to be major magazine stated “‘We’re all socialists now.” Well, about half of us. But I think the magazine should have said, “We’re all chiggers now.”