Horrific news: Representative Giffords shot
This is truly terrible news:
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot in the head by a gunman at a public event in Tucson on Saturday. There are conflicting reports about whether she was killed.
The Pima County, Ariz., sheriff’s office told member station KJZZ the 40-year-old Democrat was killed. At least nine other people, including members of her staff, were injured.
Giffords, who was re-elected to a third term in November, was hosting a “Congress on Your Corner” event at a Safeway in northwest Tucson when a gunman ran up and started shooting, according to Peter Michaels, news director of Arizona Public Media.
I knew virtually nothing about Giffords before today, but here’s her website.
This is a dreadful development, something that should strike anger and horror into the heart of every American. I hope it is a completely anomalous event rather than the start of some vile trend. Is the next step to have every public official guarded in the same way the president must be?
[ADDENDUM: Bystanders took down the shooter and he is in custody. He had walked up to people and shot them point blank in the head. I’m wondering, though, whether there was any police presence in the crowd at all. If not, why not? Isn’t it standard to have at least one police representative at an official gathering of this sort?
According to Fox (as of 3 PM), Giffords is still alive and in critical condition, and in surgery. Right now, a representative from the hospital is on the line, and at 1:30 Arizona time there will be an official briefing from the hospital.]
[ADDENDUM II: Federal judge John M. Roll has been reported killed in this event, according to Fox.
They just amended that to say he was wounded and is in the hospital.]
My agnosticism and my politics go straight out the window during a shock like this. May God be with Gabrielle Giffords.
It’s hard to see how someone can survive a close range bullet shot to the head.
God be with her and this country.
On one hand, this is absolutely horrible. Dunno why the person did it, but they deserve the full available punishment for such an act.
OTOH – I first heard about this from a site that, when not discussing technical stuff, loves to bash conservatives, and is already making much of the “target” meme used during several ad campaigns against Gifford (never mind that those were hardly the first “target” ads, and the prior ones no-one found offensive enough to complain over were directed at Republicans).
I’ll be interested to see the affiliations of the murderous scum who did this.
Such a horrible act transcends political differences. As much as I might disagree with any particular politician, I do not want to see an elected official leave office in any way other than being voted out.
My prayers go out on behalf of those shot and their families.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/24/sarah-palins-pac-puts-gun_n_511433.html
Five persons die on spot, 19 wounded. Terrible! Where was police or private body-guards? How anybody could make dozens shots before subdued?
This is horrific. And I agree, NO one at all should be a victim of this kind of horror — no one. But especially, being an elected official should never cause one to become a target like this.
These murders were plain simple assassinations, and but for the grace of God, Congresswoman Giffords (who happens to be a Blue Dog Democrat, and a former Republican) would not be alive. Though I mentioned her political association, I agree that one’s politics is no justification for any violent action, and I am both shocked and outraged.
I pray for all those who were shot, and their families
(just listening to news — now Janet Napolitano jumping on the bandwagon to offer her condolences and such. At least it made sense — moreso than most of what comes out of her mouth!)
Also, apparently this is not the first time Rep. Giffords has been targeted. There was an incident I think last March when she was harrassed and there were attacks to her office, etc. over her support of the Healthcare Bill.
Thank goodness their is a good prognosis for the Congresswoman, but there are people dead: not not just a Federal Judge but innocents such as a 9-yr-old girl and others. Apparently there are 5 others currently in critical condition.
This is unacceptable; this is such a blatant disregard for life. This is why I believe in the death penalty, albeit only with judicious and sparing application. (and I feel compelled to add, with mandatory DNA testing if any forensic evidence is available — the absence of which has resulted in a good number of innocents to be placed on Death Row in error, which is one of the primary reasons for opposition to the death penalty).
This is not a “mistake.” This is outright slaughter.
Terrible tragedy. Our country needs some serious healing of souls.
The liberals and MSM already are trying to paint this as a Tea Party crime. But check out Loughner’s Youtube page: among his favorite books are Mein Kamf and the Communist Manifesto. He calls religion ‘mind control’ and posts a video of a burning American flag.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/u/1/nHoaZaLbqB4
A former classmate calls him ‘left wing’.
http://www.businessinsider.com/woman-who-says-she-went-to-school-with-alleged-shooter-says-he-met-giffords-in-2007-2011-1
Hong: sounds a little bit like this guy, perhaps.
Hong: I searched Facebook for Jared Loughner and found this pic. It’s in Arizona so may be him.
http://azstarnet.com/events/collection_aebeb63c-2f9e-11df-9021-001cc4c002e0.html?photo=8
The story gets even weirder. His Facebook and MySpace pages have reportedly been taken down and this:
http://hillbuzz.org/2011/01/08/my-congresswoman-voted-against-nancy-pelosi-and-is-now-dead-to-me-eerie-daily-kos-hit-piece-on-gabrielle-giffords-just-two-days-before-assassination-attempt-on-her/
On my facebook page (which I rarely visit, and now I know why) a strong liberal (a guy who grew up in the 60’s, plunged himself into drugs (ultimately recovered), was of William Ayres generation — but clearly remains a far left lefty – posted just such a post as Hong mentions blaming this whole thing on Sarah Palin and the Tea Party. I could not resist making a comment pointing out that this was a crazy bent on assassination and not an iota of info has been made public as yet, to indicate any of his motivations. However, this also was not the first incident w/ Rep. Giffords. There was another in Mar. re: her support for Healthcare Bill in which her was vandalized and she was harassed.
The irony of blaming this on Palin and/or Tea Party is that Ms. Giffords was a Republican and is now a very Blue Blue Dog Democrat so she is not likely a target for someone on the right. Further, the little bit of info thus far released is supposed online writings of the suspect which mention his nonbelief in God and his dislike of money not backed by gold.
So seems his leanings go both right and left. Who knows?
http://mobile.twitter.com/caitieparker#22979901883682816
caitieparker @lakarune I haven’t seen him since ’07. Then, he was left wing.
caitieparker @antderosa He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in ’07, asked her a question & he told me she was “stupid & unintelligent”
I was taking a nap earlier and am just getting up to speed. I’m checking several websites.
My impressions are that the guy is plain crazy, and to the extent he has any recognizable political views, they are leftist in nature.
Yet it is interesting that some like Paul Krugman and Daily Kos immediately started blaming Sarah Palin and the Tea Party. In a couple of days, I wonder how many people will “know” that the shooter was a “right wing nut” and call for new gun laws.
I hope this doesn’t become a Reichstag Fire type of incident.
When seconds count the police are minutes away. Having a few citizens with carry permits in the crowd might have helped.
Mr. Frank: If the doctor interviewed in my post above is correct, and it all happened in 8-10 seconds before the shooter was tackled, I’m not sure someone in the crowd with a gun could have reacted effectively more quickly than that. Plus, firing at the shooter who was in the middle of a crowd himself would seem to be inherently dangerous, unless the other person with the gun happened to be right next to the shooter.
What’s more (I just looked it up), in Arizona it is okay to carry a concealed gun without even a permit. So the shooter had to know someone in the crowd might have a gun. It certainly didn’t seem to deter him.
Mr. Frank:
From what I’ve read, the shooting happened in a crowded room and was over in a matter of seconds. Even if someone in the crowd was armed and able to react, he would likely have hesitated if he didn’t have a clear shot at the gunman. No responsible gun owner wants to open fire in a situation where there is a high probability of hitting innocent bystanders. Even a police officer might hold his fire in that kind of situation.
Ricki,
Good point.
I didn’t refresh the screen before posting, so I didn’t see neo’s comment.
Having law-abiding armed citizens will help in most situations, but it’s not a panacea. And a truly insane person won’t be deterred by much of anything.
Seems unlikely to me that the shooter was “BoyBlue”. Other non-deleted posts on DailyKos make it sound like BoyBlue is a lot older than 22. For instance:
“I worked for an idiot Mexican-American rightwinger who ran for Congress in the 1990s.”
What, when he was 10? I’m guessing that the real BoyBlue just got embarrassed and took down his incendiary post when he heard about the shooting. Time of course will tell if he comes back on and starts posting again, which would be an even clearer sign it’s not him.
About this whole issue of whether Loughner is on the right or the left: if the YouTube videos are to be believed then he’s just straight up nuts. Really hard to make sense of any of it. Perhaps some combo of the less desirable beliefs of a Ron Paul supporter and a Lyndon LaRouche supporter.
True Rickl,
Concealed carry might only deter criminals, not terrorists and other assorted psychopaths determined to kill and die.
And as if on cue, the Brady Bunch weighs in:
Giffords Shooting Is an American Tragedy We Need to Urgently Address
The &$#*% ghouls never miss an opportunity to use a heinous crime or senseless tragedy to push their agenda, do they?
Loughner is an incoherent loser who may well be certifiably insane. His political beliefs were a mish mash of far right and far left ideas.
There is some indication that this young man was known to be disturbed by the junior college he attended, but he may not have received any counseling or referals to mental health care. Identifying and treating, even if treating means putting dangerous people in custody for public safety, mentally disturbed people should be a higher priority in a free society. Of course it’s possible this young man never raised any alarms to the extent that people would see him as possibly dangerous. Time will tell.
This is a major tragedy, but that would be true if the target had not been a Congresswoman. There will be calls for gun control, security for public figures, no public gatherings without security arrangements, etc. None of which, IMO, will improve security in a free society.
Too many dead and wounded people. The grief and suffering are overwhelming. They and their families are in my prayers.
rickl fears correctly: this will become a small (hopefully) Reichstag Fire. It will result in the Ruling Class’s further physical isolation from the people. Armed guards will become exceedingly commonplace, kinda like the state troopers that now escort SEC coaches across football fields. Not that an armed guard could have prevented today’s shootings, for good reasons previously posted. But Neo expects and seems to want “Police presence” at public affairs, and she is hardly alone.
Such increased “security” comes at the cost of liberty, a price we will all perforce pay.
Whaddaya think, Artfldgr?
If it is decided that every minor politician requires a security detail:
a) State and local governments are going to be broke even sooner.
b) The common folk will have less protection as policing resources are shifted away from common crimes.
I doubt we have enough impulse-controlled and psychologically stable humans to meet our current policing needs. Increasing demand for police means more wackos behind badges.
An increase in chaos is in a sense an increase in liberty. But the unpredictable application of force means that such liberty doesn’t feel as nice as I would like.
“I’m wondering, though, whether there was any police presence in the crowd at all. If not, why not? Isn’t it standard to have at least one police representative at an official gathering of this sort”
Was the police presence similar to the police presence at the Coptic church in Alexandria maybe (iow, withdrawn to give the attackers opportunity)?
AFAIK congresscritters warrant USSS protection, but I’m not certain about that. If so, and they weren’t paying attention, they must have been under orders not to see the threat approaching.
It would be informative to see the forensics on this young man’s personal computer. The eyes may or may not be a window to the soul but a computer hard drive certainly is.
Several years ago I attended meeting near Moscow sinagogue protesting against Islamist terror campaign. Everybody who came to the meeting had to walk through metal detector and submit to patting down, and there were several hundred participants. Security measures at all public events organized by Israeli officials always are very serious, as they should be. And nobody in the huge crowd was annoyed by this arrangement, everybody understood its necessity.
> Is the next step to have every public official guarded in the same way the president must be?
I confess to suffering some quandary on this.
a) I consider it a sad thing in single human terms. As an individual human being, it is bad that anyone suffer in this manner.
b) In the larger context of our government’s continued and determined ignoring of the expressed wishes of its constituency, it is both inevitable and desirable that this KIND of thing occur, although it should only impact the official and not bystanders — certainly not a nearby innocent such as a nine-yo girl.
c) This is clearly not a good case of the above, however, as it appears that Jared, the shooter, was a total nutjob. That is, this is not a rational response to an overweening governmental encroachment on power, as firing at random into the surrounding crowd shows.
I see one parallel with his guy and the Virginia Tech shooter. It appears that a school he attended knew he was unhinged but took no action. Given all the privacy issues in higher education and the fear of lawsuits, there is little an instructor can do to blow the whistle on nutjobs. There are a substantial number of students in higher education on medication for mental health issues. Psychotics used to be locked up. There are also ex felons and ex gang members.
Before everyone had “rights” it was hard to get into college, and meaningful, honest references from people who knew you were required. That was when only 10-20 of high school students went on to post secondary education. Now it’s close to 60%.
They’ve ALL been nutjobs. Oswald, Sirhan, Hassan, McVey, VA Tech, the Reagan shooter, all of them as best I can recall. Well, maybe not Oswald, who was totally Sovietized.
Not a rational rightwinger among them.